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(Guardian)   How bad are the UK Labour concession speeches going? "He looked like he had been farking tasered. It was terrible"   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Conservative Party, Keir Hardie, Labour Party, Mayor of London, England, Tony Blair, Election, Conservatism  
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3446 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 May 2021 at 12:02 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-05-09 12:06:34 PM  
Well, yeah, of course. Boris must be elated.

Imagine what we're going to feel like in 2022 if the GOP retakes the House, after all the harm they've caused over the last 22 years, and you get what they're feeling.
 
2021-05-09 12:09:03 PM  
Yes, because running to the center always works to attract voters who previously disagreed with you, and has no chance of alienating the base.
 
2021-05-09 12:15:22 PM  
This will probably add strength to the Scottish independence movement.

it will likely come down to a game of political chicken when the Scottish Parliament announces a new independence vote and Boris doesn't sanction it.  The Scottish PM will likely tell Boris to go fark himself, and schedule the vote anyway.

Considering the UK's weakness internationally, I'll bet the EU would be the first to congratulate an independent Scotland, followed quickly by the US, and then Canada.
 
2021-05-09 12:22:42 PM  
Well with how well the Tories have been running things, Labour didn't stand a chance.

Seriously, WTF?
 
DVD
2021-05-09 12:26:15 PM  

FormlessOne: Well, yeah, of course. Boris must be elated.

Imagine what we're going to feel like in 2022 if the GOP retakes the House, after all the harm they've caused over the last 22 years, and you get what they're feeling.


_____________

At this point, it would mostly be the Democratic party giving the races away.  Faux News brainwashing and misinformation is still going too strongly and NewsCrack and Russian "alternate facts" aren't being countered with any intelligence.

Voter suppression is in full view now, with these Republican power grabs thinly veiled as laws.  Republican voters actually support stopping the power grabs with legislation as long as they don't see a Democratic association with it.  That's the power of Faux News' tribal brainwashing on display.

Democratic leadership needs to be smarter about countering this.  They got voted into office and have access to the resources that could work on this.
 
2021-05-09 12:27:30 PM  

anfrind: Yes, because running to the center always works to attract voters who previously disagreed with you, and has no chance of alienating the base.


It was a smart idea in this case; the 'far from centre' part of Labour scares people, including lots of identity groups that Labour needs at least some of.

Failing to come up with a new brand or message beyond 'Hey, at least we aren't Jeremy Corbyn and Naz Shah!' was a mistake.

And having a handful of French fishermen launch an abortive attack on the Channel Islands, to which Boris could respond with a jolly old show of gunboat diplomacy, was just bad luck.  Or was it?
 
2021-05-09 12:39:55 PM  

FormlessOne: Well, yeah, of course. Boris must be elated.

Imagine what we're going to feel like in 2022 if the GOP retakes the House, after all the harm they've caused over the last 22 years, and you get what they're feeling.


You mean when the GOP retakes the House.
 
2021-05-09 12:47:33 PM  
What's truly breath-taking is the political context of the elections.

Johnson is caught up in a numerous bribery and sleaze scandals.
The ongoing fiasco of Brexit.
A horrible pandemic reponse.

And Labour ends up looking like the worse choice.

I'm not sure if there's some sort of competition between the US and the UK to see who can have the more farked up politics.
 
2021-05-09 12:49:23 PM  

born_yesterday: Well with how well the Tories have been running things, Labour didn't stand a chance.

Seriously, WTF?


We have FPTP voting, and a strong third party (LibDems), which farks over Labour every election because the Tories don't have a similar counterpart vying for their votes.

It's analogous to the Greens and the Democrats except the LibDems aren't run by Republicans Tories, nor funded by Russians.
 
2021-05-09 12:52:26 PM  

djfitz: What's truly breath-taking is the political context of the elections.

Johnson is caught up in a numerous bribery and sleaze scandals.
The ongoing fiasco of Brexit.
A horrible pandemic reponse.

And Labour ends up looking like the worse choice.

I'm not sure if there's some sort of competition between the US and the UK to see who can have the more farked up politics.


We may have taught the US everything they know about farked up politics, but we didn't teach them everything we know about farked up politics.
 
2021-05-09 12:55:29 PM  
Its been said a million times that leaving the EU would crush and ruin Britain. So far it seems to have only crushed and ruined the hopes of Labour.
 
2021-05-09 12:58:27 PM  

djfitz: What's truly breath-taking is the political context of the elections.

Johnson is caught up in a numerous bribery and sleaze scandals.
The ongoing fiasco of Brexit.
A horrible pandemic reponse.

And Labour ends up looking like the worse choice.


I just posted this in another thread.

When so many former Labour strongholds in the north, like Hartlepool, vote Tory, and vote Tory in a big way, then clearly the people are happy to ignore their tribal roots.
It suggests that policies do matter, but so does the personality. People like Boris. On paper Kier Starmer is professional, skilled, experienced, knowledgeable, presentable and has no skeletons in his closet. No sleaze. No scandals.
But the public, even in a Labour stronghold like Hartlepool, choose to vote for Boris.  It is Labour who are now seen as the party of the wealthy metropolitan elite, the Islington set, out of touch with the country.
Boris isn't perfect, far from it. But he promised Brexit and kept his word. He promised a free trade deal and delivered. He promised extra NHS funding and kept his word.
People trust him, simple as that.

And this Guardian article says the same thing.

The Tories are now being spoken about as the party of working people, while some of Labour's safest strongholds are in the country's wealthier, metropolitan areas including London, Manchester and Bristol.
 
2021-05-09 1:00:58 PM  

mikaloyd: Its been said a million times that leaving the EU would crush and ruin Britain. So far it seems to have only crushed and ruined the hopes of Labour.


Don't forget that many Labour MPs, and a lot of Labour voters, were for Brexit. It was a Labour MP in the leave campaign who first made the infamous "We send the EU £350 million a week" claim.
 
2021-05-09 1:04:56 PM  

mikaloyd: Its been said a million times that leaving the EU would crush and ruin Britain. So far it seems to have only crushed and ruined the hopes of Labour.


I mean, if you ignore the SNP being more popular than ever and reviving indyref2, NI being unable to get its shiat together to form a government and new border clashes erupting and the introduction of internal borders, and a 20% dropoff in Jan 2021 total UK exports due to a *40*% drop in EU trade, sure.

But for the rest of us that inhabit reality, it appears to be a giant shiatshow all around over there.
 
2021-05-09 1:07:09 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: djfitz: What's truly breath-taking is the political context of the elections.

Johnson is caught up in a numerous bribery and sleaze scandals.
The ongoing fiasco of Brexit.
A horrible pandemic reponse.

And Labour ends up looking like the worse choice.

I just posted this in another thread.

When so many former Labour strongholds in the north, like Hartlepool, vote Tory, and vote Tory in a big way, then clearly the people are happy to ignore their tribal roots.
It suggests that policies do matter, but so does the personality. People like Boris. On paper Kier Starmer is professional, skilled, experienced, knowledgeable, presentable and has no skeletons in his closet. No sleaze. No scandals.
But the public, even in a Labour stronghold like Hartlepool, choose to vote for Boris.  It is Labour who are now seen as the party of the wealthy metropolitan elite, the Islington set, out of touch with the country.
Boris isn't perfect, far from it. But he promised Brexit and kept his word. He promised a free trade deal and delivered. He promised extra NHS funding and kept his word.
People trust him, simple as that.


In other words, go with the corrupt politician you know.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-05-09 1:10:24 PM  

DVD: FormlessOne: Well, yeah, of course. Boris must be elated.

Imagine what we're going to feel like in 2022 if the GOP retakes the House, after all the harm they've caused over the last 22 years, and you get what they're feeling.

_____________

At this point, it would mostly be the Democratic party giving the races away.  Faux News brainwashing and misinformation is still going too strongly and NewsCrack and Russian "alternate facts" aren't being countered with any intelligence.

Voter suppression is in full view now, with these Republican power grabs thinly veiled as laws.  Republican voters actually support stopping the power grabs with legislation as long as they don't see a Democratic association with it.  That's the power of Faux News' tribal brainwashing on display.

Democratic leadership needs to be smarter about countering this.  They got voted into office and have access to the resources that could work on this.


The standard Dem strategy is to whine weakly about subversion of democracy when they're not in power and say it would be inappropriate to turn around and fix all the subversions when they get power.

It's like playing a game of Werewolf where most of the villagers refuse to acknowledge there is a werewolf...
 
2021-05-09 1:17:07 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Boris isn't perfect, far from it. But he promised Brexit and kept his word. He promised a free trade deal and delivered. He promised extra NHS funding and kept his word.
People trust him, simple as that.


Whats the Boris-UK equivalent of Trump Cheeto dust? It's gotta just be...all over you.

That is...a choicely framed set of facts there.

Particularly galling is that they could have gotten basically the same deal from May significantly earlier and with less disruption, and Boris was a large part in ensuring it failed so he could take the credit. If they're taking that as a "promises kept" thing, then they're as dumb as the redhats here are, straight up. Brexit and NHS didnt go down any cleaner.
 
2021-05-09 1:25:08 PM  

zbtop: Carter Pewterschmidt: Boris isn't perfect, far from it. But he promised Brexit and kept his word. He promised a free trade deal and delivered. He promised extra NHS funding and kept his word.
People trust him, simple as that.

Whats the Boris-UK equivalent of Trump Cheeto dust? It's gotta just be...all over you.

That is...a choicely framed set of facts there.

Particularly galling is that they could have gotten basically the same deal from May significantly earlier and with less disruption, and Boris was a large part in ensuring it failed so he could take the credit. If they're taking that as a "promises kept" thing, then they're as dumb as the redhats here are, straight up. Brexit and NHS didnt go down any cleaner.


May's deal had the backstop. That kept the UK in the EU single market in effect forever. The UK would have never had the power to leave, ever, unless the EU chose to allow it.

That is the reason that deal was rejected by Parliament again and again. No sane country would ever agree to such a one sided deal.

Boris's deal with NI isn't great, but probably the best deal that could keep everyone more or less not unhappy. With the biggest change being the people of NI have the unilateral power to walk away from this deal at any time if they choose. That is the biggest difference to May's deal.
To say it is "basically the same deal" is like comparing your rental agreement to the same agreement that has added a clause allowing the landlord to walk into your house and have sex with your wife and/or daughters any time they want, and that you can never ever leave or move out.

Yeah sure, 98% of the text of the agreement is exactly the same. But the two percent that is different is rather a big deal....
 
2021-05-09 1:25:44 PM  
The final season of The UK is pretty wild so far
 
2021-05-09 1:27:47 PM  

Teddy Brosevelt: The final season of The UK is pretty wild so far


As long as Blair doesn't appear in the shower and say the last fifteen years has just been a dream I'm happy.
 
2021-05-09 1:31:42 PM  

zbtop: mikaloyd: Its been said a million times that leaving the EU would crush and ruin Britain. So far it seems to have only crushed and ruined the hopes of Labour.

I mean, if you ignore the SNP being more popular than ever and reviving indyref2, NI being unable to get its shiat together to form a government and new border clashes erupting and the introduction of internal borders, and a 20% dropoff in Jan 2021 total UK exports due to a *40*% drop in EU trade, sure.

But for the rest of us that inhabit reality, it appears to be a giant shiatshow all around over there.


How are the EU exports doing during the pandemic?
 
2021-05-09 1:34:07 PM  
After the Labour leader staged a stiff response for TV cameras on Friday, saying he took personal responsibility, some of his closest allies could not hide their dismay. "He did it in front of a whole load of copies of Hansard, with what looked like a dead plant in the background," said a senior ally. "He was sweating. It was awful. Getting these things right are the basics. It was just appalling."

What's the UK equivalent of Four Seasons Landscaping?
 
2021-05-09 1:44:18 PM  

mikaloyd: zbtop: mikaloyd: Its been said a million times that leaving the EU would crush and ruin Britain. So far it seems to have only crushed and ruined the hopes of Labour.

I mean, if you ignore the SNP being more popular than ever and reviving indyref2, NI being unable to get its shiat together to form a government and new border clashes erupting and the introduction of internal borders, and a 20% dropoff in Jan 2021 total UK exports due to a *40*% drop in EU trade, sure.

But for the rest of us that inhabit reality, it appears to be a giant shiatshow all around over there.

How are the EU exports doing during the pandemic?


Using the preceding month, Dec 2020, there had been an a slight (400mill Pound) increase in exports that month, even with Covid.

Then January, and Brexit, happened.
 
2021-05-09 1:47:57 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Teddy Brosevelt: The final season of The UK is pretty wild so far

As long as Blair doesn't appear in the shower and say the last fifteen years has just been a dream I'm happy.


Actually, we might prefer it to reality at this point.
 
2021-05-09 1:49:57 PM  

Bertuccio: DVD: FormlessOne: Well, yeah, of course. Boris must be elated.

Imagine what we're going to feel like in 2022 if the GOP retakes the House, after all the harm they've caused over the last 22 years, and you get what they're feeling.

_____________

At this point, it would mostly be the Democratic party giving the races away.  Faux News brainwashing and misinformation is still going too strongly and NewsCrack and Russian "alternate facts" aren't being countered with any intelligence.

Voter suppression is in full view now, with these Republican power grabs thinly veiled as laws.  Republican voters actually support stopping the power grabs with legislation as long as they don't see a Democratic association with it.  That's the power of Faux News' tribal brainwashing on display.

Democratic leadership needs to be smarter about countering this.  They got voted into office and have access to the resources that could work on this.

The standard Dem strategy is to whine weakly about subversion of democracy when they're not in power and say it would be inappropriate to turn around and fix all the subversions when they get power.

It's like playing a game of Werewolf where most of the villagers refuse to acknowledge there is a werewolf...


Self comment.

Are there already Werewolf denialist and horseshiat BSABers roles?
 
2021-05-09 1:58:00 PM  
I tried farking tasered once.

It was electrifying.
 
2021-05-09 2:03:04 PM  
Conservative voters in the UK and US fall into 2 categories.

1. Just plain stupid. These folks are low intelligence and have been raised that X is good people and Y are bad people. That's what they have been told their entire lives by the people around them who were raised to believe the same thing.

These folks are a minority and are going to vote conservative even if Satan himself with horns and a bifurcated tail ran for office as a conservative.

2. The people who don't care as long as they benefit themselves. These are the ones who vote conservative because they know that those policies are going to benefit them socially/finacially and/or hurt their competition. They don't care about anything else. That is literally all there is. They have zero thoughts about. This is the majority of conservative voters. Their ideology is give me mine and fark everyone else.

Group 2 is who Trump and the GOP pander to. It's also the group that Boris Johnson and the Tories pander to. They dog whistle for the racists to keep them excited but their main targets are these greedy bastards. They want more money and power. Getting to be racist and hurt people of color is just a bonus for them.
 
2021-05-09 2:16:37 PM  

the voice of raisin: This will probably add strength to the Scottish independence movement.

it will likely come down to a game of political chicken when the Scottish Parliament announces a new independence vote and Boris doesn't sanction it.  The Scottish PM will likely tell Boris to go fark himself, and schedule the vote anyway.

Considering the UK's weakness internationally, I'll bet the EU would be the first to congratulate an independent Scotland, followed quickly by the US, and then Canada.


Canada won't commit to outright, stated support for Scottish indepedence, because Canada's ties to the U.K. are too tight. Canada's response will also depend on Canada's ruling party.

If it's the Conservatives, then the reaction will be "We will not recognize Scotland as a sovereign nation".

If it's the Liberals, then the reaction will be softer: "The people of Scotland have chosen independence, but we encourage Scotland to have continued dialog with the U.K. government."

If it's the NDP, then.... LOL, no, it will never be the NDP.
 
2021-05-09 2:20:27 PM  

FormlessOne: Well, yeah, of course. Boris must be elated.

Imagine what we're going to feel like in 2022 if the GOP retakes the House, after all the harm they've caused over the last 22 years, and you get what they're feeling.


Better get your crying gear out, because it's going to happen.

People don't want leftist nonsense.
 
2021-05-09 2:20:30 PM  
 
2021-05-09 2:21:31 PM  

anfrind: Yes, because running to the center always works to attract voters who previously disagreed with you, and has no chance of alienating the base.


Instead you should embrace leftist ideals so that we will farking destroy you at the polls.
 
2021-05-09 2:25:14 PM  

gar1013: anfrind: Yes, because running to the center always works to attract voters who previously disagreed with you, and has no chance of alienating the base.

Instead you should embrace leftist ideals so that we will farking destroy you at the polls.


Difficulty:

Democrats "embracing leftist ideals" would push them back towards the centre.
 
2021-05-09 2:27:05 PM  

Wesdog: Conservative voters in the UK and US fall into 2 categories.

1. Just plain stupid. These folks are low intelligence and have been raised that X is good people and Y are bad people. That's what they have been told their entire lives by the people around them who were raised to believe the same thing.

These folks are a minority and are going to vote conservative even if Satan himself with horns and a bifurcated tail ran for office as a conservative.

2. The people who don't care as long as they benefit themselves. These are the ones who vote conservative because they know that those policies are going to benefit them socially/finacially and/or hurt their competition. They don't care about anything else. That is literally all there is. They have zero thoughts about. This is the majority of conservative voters. Their ideology is give me mine and fark everyone else.

Group 2 is who Trump and the GOP pander to. It's also the group that Boris Johnson and the Tories pander to. They dog whistle for the racists to keep them excited but their main targets are these greedy bastards. They want more money and power. Getting to be racist and hurt people of color is just a bonus for them.


Lol. Leftist years are salty. I use them to season corn fed beef.
 
2021-05-09 2:29:12 PM  

Murkanen: gar1013: anfrind: Yes, because running to the center always works to attract voters who previously disagreed with you, and has no chance of alienating the base.

Instead you should embrace leftist ideals so that we will farking destroy you at the polls.

Difficulty:

Democrats "embracing leftist ideals" would push them back towards the centre.


Lol.

The closest you guys got to center was Clinton, and he never quite made it.

Good thing you abandoned a winning strategy.
 
2021-05-09 2:30:09 PM  

Murkanen: gar1013: anfrind: Yes, because running to the center always works to attract voters who previously disagreed with you, and has no chance of alienating the base.

Instead you should embrace leftist ideals so that we will farking destroy you at the polls.

Difficulty:

Democrats "embracing leftist ideals" would push them back towards the centre.


Extra Difficulty:

Not safe from Trumper thread-shiatting in a post about UK politics.
 
2021-05-09 2:33:30 PM  

gar1013: anfrind: Yes, because running to the center always works to attract voters who previously disagreed with you, and has no chance of alienating the base.

Instead you should embrace leftist ideals so that we will farking destroy you at the polls.


Because it's always important to want to destroy your fellow countryman, figuratively and otherwise, right?
 
2021-05-09 2:37:37 PM  

gar1013: anfrind: Yes, because running to the center always works to attract voters who previously disagreed with you, and has no chance of alienating the base.

Instead you should embrace leftist ideals so that we will farking destroy you at the polls.


You know what's awesome?

Waking up every morning with Joe Biden as President, Obama having served 2 glorious terms, your pal Mango Mussolini having been flushed from office and impeached twice, the GOP in the midst of a civil war between its Derp wing and its NeoCon wing because of 4chan originated conspiracy theories, and the Democrats in control of the House, Senate, and Executive branches for a decent length of time to go yet.

But something else obviously crawled up your butthole this morning and triggered you something fearsome to get you to threadshiat this hard, because nothing's changed on those counts in a while.
 
2021-05-09 2:55:05 PM  

GoodHomer: the voice of raisin: This will probably add strength to the Scottish independence movement.

it will likely come down to a game of political chicken when the Scottish Parliament announces a new independence vote and Boris doesn't sanction it.  The Scottish PM will likely tell Boris to go fark himself, and schedule the vote anyway.

Considering the UK's weakness internationally, I'll bet the EU would be the first to congratulate an independent Scotland, followed quickly by the US, and then Canada.

Canada won't commit to outright, stated support for Scottish indepedence, because Canada's ties to the U.K. are too tight. Canada's response will also depend on Canada's ruling party.

If it's the Conservatives, then the reaction will be "We will not recognize Scotland as a sovereign nation".

If it's the Liberals, then the reaction will be softer: "The people of Scotland have chosen independence, but we encourage Scotland to have continued dialog with the U.K. government."

If it's the NDP, then.... LOL, no, it will never be the NDP.


If Scotland votes to leave the UK the UK will let them go. The UK will recognise Scotland as an independent country, so why wouldn't Canada or any other country? It's not like Scotland is going to be Taiwan and the UK will threaten any country that recognises them. Of course Canada would recognise them. Why shouldn't they?

I can imagine that the Canadian government will be reluctant to cheer on Scotland's independence because it would encourage Quebec to seek independence.
 
2021-05-09 2:55:22 PM  
Labour could try becoming a party that campaigns on something other than "we aren't Tories and Corbyn is gone"
 
2021-05-09 3:03:42 PM  

gar1013: anfrind: Yes, because running to the center always works to attract voters who previously disagreed with you, and has no chance of alienating the base.

Instead you should embrace leftist ideals so that we will farking destroy you at the polls.


Be careful what you wish for. "Leftist ideals" are a LOT more popular than the Democratic Party, and they're already beating the GOP in the generic ballots.

It's not so bad for you guys that voter suppression and maybe some well-timed pants-wetting over a trans on a high school basketball team can't overcome it yet, so I wouldn't be too worried if I were you. But you can't afford for Democrats to embrace things huge majorities of voters actually want any more than they already have.
 
2021-05-09 3:09:10 PM  

sprgrss: Labour could try becoming a party that campaigns on something other than "we aren't Tories and Corbyn is gone"


For us dumb Americans, I would be interested in hearing what the actual opposition looks like in the UK. The US is going through a massive backlash against the Trumpers, but it took n literal armed insurrection to change the Democrat leadership's mind. I kind of get the idea that the Tories have widespread support because there really isn't a credible alternative, and there haven't been any good peasant revolts in a few centuries.

Labour now sounds like the worst case of branding given they don't have support of actual labour.
 
2021-05-09 3:18:04 PM  
If Scotland separates, say goodbye to the British Navy.
 
2021-05-09 3:22:57 PM  

sprgrss: Labour could try becoming a party that campaigns on something other than "we aren't Tories and Corbyn is gone"


That is probably close to the truth. All Starmer seems to stand for is "not being Corbyn". He doesn't really have a vision for what he actually wants. If not being Corbyn is all he stands for then people can vote for Boris and not get Corbyn. If they elected Starmer then Labour could kick him out and install another Corbyn and we'd be stuck with them. In London the people elected Labour moderate Andrew Mackintosh as London leader. Twenty four hours later there was a leadership coup and left winger Ken Livingstone became leader. Imagine if Americans had elected Republican Mitt Romney as President and twenty four hours after taking office Donald Trump got him kicked out and he became President instead.
 
2021-05-09 3:27:07 PM  

djfitz: sprgrss: Labour could try becoming a party that campaigns on something other than "we aren't Tories and Corbyn is gone"

For us dumb Americans, I would be interested in hearing what the actual opposition looks like in the UK. The US is going through a massive backlash against the Trumpers, but it took n literal armed insurrection to change the Democrat leadership's mind. I kind of get the idea that the Tories have widespread support because there really isn't a credible alternative, and there haven't been any good peasant revolts in a few centuries.

Labour now sounds like the worst case of branding given they don't have support of actual labour.


In the Blair years the Tories were in the position Labour is now. Labour won three elections in a row and the Tories never looked like seriously challenging them. But they did eventually bounce back, so it could be done.

Fun fact: Every single Labour government ever has left office with unemployment higher than when they took office. For a party called Labour you'd have thought that would be something they'd do something about.

/Also, in the last seventy years only two Labour leaders have ever won a general election and been elected, Wilson and Blair.
 
2021-05-09 3:30:53 PM  

djfitz: sprgrss: Labour could try becoming a party that campaigns on something other than "we aren't Tories and Corbyn is gone"

For us dumb Americans, I would be interested in hearing what the actual opposition looks like in the UK. The US is going through a massive backlash against the Trumpers, but it took n literal armed insurrection to change the Democrat leadership's mind. I kind of get the idea that the Tories have widespread support because there really isn't a credible alternative, and there haven't been any good peasant revolts in a few centuries.

Labour now sounds like the worst case of branding given they don't have support of actual labour.


You are pretty much on the nail there.

When Tony Blair stepped down as Labour leader 'New Labour' started dying then the hard left looked to take back control which gave them Corbyn. Total disaster.

The Lib Dems (my lot) entered a coalition government with the Conservatives which led to a lot of right leaning Lib Dems to just say 'fark it, I'll vote Tory then'. No recovery in sight.

Only the Conservatives have been stable.

Remember, people vote Conservative, not Boris. A prime minister is just the party leader of the party that one the election. Boris can be replaced, fingers crossed.
 
2021-05-09 3:32:12 PM  

Pointy Tail of Satan: If Scotland separates, say goodbye to the British Navy.


Why? It's the Royal Navy and, for now at least, we still have a Monarchy.
 
2021-05-09 3:57:46 PM  

FormlessOne: Well, yeah, of course. Boris must be elated.

Imagine what we're going to feel like in 2022 if the GOP retakes the House, after all the harm they've caused over the last 22 years, and you get what they're feeling.


No, I'd say Scotland ruined his party
 
2021-05-09 4:01:54 PM  
A bunch of Trotskyite wannabes got their teeth kicked down their throats, aw, cue the sad trombone!
 
2021-05-09 4:02:43 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: GoodHomer: the voice of raisin: This will probably add strength to the Scottish independence movement.

it will likely come down to a game of political chicken when the Scottish Parliament announces a new independence vote and Boris doesn't sanction it.  The Scottish PM will likely tell Boris to go fark himself, and schedule the vote anyway.

Considering the UK's weakness internationally, I'll bet the EU would be the first to congratulate an independent Scotland, followed quickly by the US, and then Canada.

Canada won't commit to outright, stated support for Scottish indepedence, because Canada's ties to the U.K. are too tight. Canada's response will also depend on Canada's ruling party.

If it's the Conservatives, then the reaction will be "We will not recognize Scotland as a sovereign nation".

If it's the Liberals, then the reaction will be softer: "The people of Scotland have chosen independence, but we encourage Scotland to have continued dialog with the U.K. government."

If it's the NDP, then.... LOL, no, it will never be the NDP.

If Scotland votes to leave the UK the UK will let them go. The UK will recognise Scotland as an independent country, so why wouldn't Canada or any other country? It's not like Scotland is going to be Taiwan and the UK will threaten any country that recognises them. Of course Canada would recognise them. Why shouldn't they?

I can imagine that the Canadian government will be reluctant to cheer on Scotland's independence because it would encourage Quebec to seek independence.


The UK won't have a choice. Besides Boris trying to block the referendum, but if he does that there will quite rightfully be a rebellion in Scotland
 
2021-05-09 4:09:45 PM  

Cormee: The UK won't have a choice. Besides Boris trying to block the referendum, but if he does that there will quite rightfully be a rebellion in Scotland


Just as there would have been hell to pay if Remainers had managed to stop Brexit from happening.

As I've said before if Scots vote to leave we'll let them. I'm just pointing out why it will be Brexit times a hundred in terms of the problems Scotland will have. But we'd respect their choice.

I say give them a vote in a couple of years, when the full impact of Brexit will be clearer. After all, if it really will be as bad as Remainers claim then it will pretty much guarantee the SNP winning the vote. Judging by the election result a few days ago they'd lose a referendum today.
 
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