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(Scientific American)   "Cave Syndrome" is keeping the vaccinated in social isolation and browsing Fark all day long   (scientificamerican.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Fear, Posttraumatic stress disorder, Psychology, Anxiety, Anxiety disorder, Northwestern University, Alan Teo, extreme fear of the disease  
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2299 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 May 2021 at 1:59 PM (4 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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4 days ago  
TL/DR: Sensible people have acknowledged that with vaccine refusal, states opening too early, the increase in the variety and number of variants (some which can reinfect you if you've had COVID and recovered), they're being cautious and reducing their chance of exposure. 

The very last paragraph in the article: 

"Teo says there is a type of distorted thinking that maybe things will be better later. "Based on what we understand about immunity and the variantscoming onboard, quite the opposite is true," he adds."

We're nowhere, NOWHERE near normal. The Map of the US is still mostly red. Rates are higher than they've been since last May. 

It's not over. And thanks to these assholes who want to ignore Science, Health and Safety, it's likely to never be over.
 
4 days ago  
With weed being delivered, video games to be played, and work from home nobody needs to leave the house anymore except the poors.
 
4 days ago  

Znuh: Science, Health and Safety,


Is that something like the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost?
 
4 days ago  
because no one wants to be out and about, having discovered it's way more comfortable to not do that?
 
4 days ago  
So easy a caveman could do it.
 
4 days ago  

The Googles Do Nothing: With weed being delivered,


whoa...whoa...whoa, come again? Who's delivering weed?

you must be in one those legal states I've heard off.
 
4 days ago  

Znuh: TL/DR: Sensible people have acknowledged that with vaccine refusal, states opening too early, the increase in the variety and number of variants (some which can reinfect you if you've had COVID and recovered), they're being cautious and reducing their chance of exposure. 

The very last paragraph in the article: 

"Teo says there is a type of distorted thinking that maybe things will be better later. "Based on what we understand about immunity and the variantscoming onboard, quite the opposite is true," he adds."

We're nowhere, NOWHERE near normal. The Map of the US is still mostly red. Rates are higher than they've been since last May. 

It's not over. And thanks to these assholes who want to ignore Science, Health and Safety, it's likely to never be over.


I want nothing more than to go out and do farking something. But I can't because I have four other people in my house and I don't want to be the one that kills them. With my mental health, I don't give a shiat if I die somedays, but I am not killing my family.
 
4 days ago  

farkingismybusiness: So easy a caveman could do it.


media4.giphy.comView Full Size
 
4 days ago  

steklo: The Googles Do Nothing: With weed being delivered,

whoa...whoa...whoa, come again? Who's delivering weed?

you must be in one those legal states I've heard off.


I'm in a legal state, but it's not the legal weed that's delivered. That's the one thing I have to go out for.
 
4 days ago  

Znuh: TL/DR: Sensible people have acknowledged that with vaccine refusal, states opening too early, the increase in the variety and number of variants (some which can reinfect you if you've had COVID and recovered), they're being cautious and reducing their chance of exposure. 

The very last paragraph in the article: 

"Teo says there is a type of distorted thinking that maybe things will be better later. "Based on what we understand about immunity and the variantscoming onboard, quite the opposite is true," he adds."

We're nowhere, NOWHERE near normal. The Map of the US is still mostly red. Rates are higher than they've been since last May. 

It's not over. And thanks to these assholes who want to ignore Science, Health and Safety, it's likely to never be over.


I don't think I'll ever be able to live a normal life again.  My asthma doctor told me today to continue to isolate even though I'm vaccinated.  This makes me sad.
 
4 days ago  

The Googles Do Nothing: With weed being delivered, video games to be played, and work from home nobody needs to leave the house anymore except the poors.


LOL.   That's a nice bubble you got going there, thinking that everyone can work from home.   Good on those who can, but it's rather hard to catch fish from home.   Not everyone is a cubical drone.   No offense to cubical drones, mind you.
 
4 days ago  

Znuh: And thanks to these assholes who want to ignore Science, Health and Safety, it's likely to never be over.


People like these are why we can't have nice things. It's almost like they are all ...

Fark user imageView Full Size


... cavemen.
 
4 days ago  
Honestly I feel guilty going out, when a lot of waiters, grocery clerks, etc. probably haven't had a chance to get vaccinated yet.
 
4 days ago  
I remember this episode of the Simpsons.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
4 days ago  

Dewey Fidalgo: The Googles Do Nothing: With weed being delivered, video games to be played, and work from home nobody needs to leave the house anymore except the poors.

LOL.   That's a nice bubble you got going there, thinking that everyone can work from home.   Good on those who can, but it's rather hard to catch fish from home.   Not everyone is a cubical drone.   No offense to cubical drones, mind you.


People who think for a living are the opposite of drones. It seems like you may seek to feel superior to people who are able to find better paying work than you can that also allows them the flexibility to work from home.
 
4 days ago  
I'm in Alberta, currently the worst place north of Brazil, I have had 1 shot and still get anxiety just leaving the apartment. Had to quit my job because of the attacks I was getting, having to spend 2 hours a day on Public Transmission boxes was making me agoraphobic.
 
4 days ago  

Dewey Fidalgo: LOL.   That's a nice bubble you got going there, thinking that everyone can work from home.   Good on those who can, but it's rather hard to catch fish from home.   Not everyone is a cubical drone.   No offense to cubical drones, mind you.


I've never been so happy to be a cubicle drone as I have been during the pandemic.
 
4 days ago  
Had lunch with a friend for the first time this week. It was my first time not doing take out. We picked somewhere as safe as possible and were the only ones outside on a patio by ourselves. Even with us both being vaccinated it felt a little weird having a waiter. It's been like 14 months since I ate somewhere that wasn't my house or my office. There was definitely anxiety going into it
 
4 days ago  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
4 days ago  

Znuh: We're nowhere, NOWHERE near normal. The Map of the US is still mostly red. Rates are higher than they've been since last May. 

It's not over. And thanks to these assholes who want to ignore Science, Health and Safety, it's likely to never be over.


Yeah, there are a lot of assholes out there that need to get vaccinated.  But rants like this aren't helping.  They're actually hurting a lot.

The science overwhelmingly shows that the vaccine is remarkably successful at what it does.  It's very good at reducing the chances that people get COVID and very good at preventing major symptoms even if somebody does.  It's also very good at reducing the overall transmission of COVID.  The vaccines are actually much better than we expected them to be ahead of time, even in the face of these new strains.

One of the major factors that's causing people to not get the vaccine is this ideology that even if you get the vaccine, you can't change anything about your behavior.  Then what's the motivation for getting the vaccine if it doesn't do anything for you?  At some undefined point in the future something might magically change if we hit some undefined threshold?  You're NEVER going to get fence sitters on board with arguments like that.

If we want people to go out and get the vaccine, we have to get away from the fearmongering where we insist that everybody who has received the vaccine still has to huddle at home in fear.  We need to be emphasizing the things that they can safely do after getting the vaccine, which is actually quite a bit.

Yes, there are some exceptions where people will still want to be very careful, especially if they have somebody in an at risk category at home.  And yes, things aren't completely back to normal.

But there is a whole swath of things that most people can safely do once they get the vaccine.  And if we really want people to go out and get the vaccine, we need to be talking about those things, rather than huddling at home in fear even after the vaccine.  And we need to be talking about the fact that a lot of places in the US are probably close to herd immunity (or even over the threshold) - many reasonable sources estimate that the number of people with some form of immunity is ~60%, which is really quite good.
 
4 days ago  
I'm gonna get laid this Summer if it kills me.
 
4 days ago  

Krazikarl: But rants like this aren't helping.


STOP IT. You have plenty of people who don't want to participate in healthy society, and want to feel good about doing nothing, and are trying to take it away from them.

I bet you play sports. And have a girlfriend who doesn't live in Canada, and don't appreciate magna.
 
4 days ago  
Because we weren't living in caves before

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
4 days ago  

Dewey Fidalgo: Not everyone is a cubical drone. No offense to cubical drones



cubical = shaped like a cube

cubicle = work pod
 
4 days ago  
Last spring, it was panic city around here, thinking chaos was going to be forever.

But things have settled into a routine, not as hectic as before.  It's kind of nice, not having to be ten places every week or day.

For me and my family, this way of living may just be our new norm.  Staying away from others, wearing something over our noses, and saying it's to protect someone in our house.  We're not into forcing others to follow our lead, so no confrontations, just doing our own way.  Deciding what is so important that we have to go somewhere or just hang out in virtual land, it's nice.
 
4 days ago  
Allegory of the Cave - Legion
Youtube p-WWoGOf8fY
 
4 days ago  
Someone on Twitter recently posted to the effect of, "Now that I'm about to be vaccinated I can't decide if I desperately need human contact as soon as possible, or if I never want it ever again" and that sums up my feelings pretty well.

Looking forward to eating at a restaurant with real napkins again for the first time since 2019. Still going to be tipping a bare minimum of 30% if not more. For kind of a lot of reasons.
 
4 days ago  

Thanks for the Meme-ries: [Fark user image 850x478]


Chaka looked a lot better as a child.
 
4 days ago  

thatboyoverthere: Znuh: TL/DR: Sensible people have acknowledged that with vaccine refusal, states opening too early, the increase in the variety and number of variants (some which can reinfect you if you've had COVID and recovered), they're being cautious and reducing their chance of exposure. 

The very last paragraph in the article: 

"Teo says there is a type of distorted thinking that maybe things will be better later. "Based on what we understand about immunity and the variantscoming onboard, quite the opposite is true," he adds."

We're nowhere, NOWHERE near normal. The Map of the US is still mostly red. Rates are higher than they've been since last May. 

It's not over. And thanks to these assholes who want to ignore Science, Health and Safety, it's likely to never be over.

I want nothing more than to go out and do farking something. But I can't because I have four other people in my house and I don't want to be the one that kills them. With my mental health, I don't give a shiat if I die somedays, but I am not killing my family.


Enough with the virtue-signallng. Give your server from the thread 11389155 cafe a few $10K of tips. Time you get back from your coffee and muffin, [ding] you are now free to move about the city.
 
4 days ago  
I go out now about the same as I did before. What's the point of just going out if there is nothing to do?
 
4 days ago  

Krazikarl: Znuh: We're nowhere, NOWHERE near normal. The Map of the US is still mostly red. Rates are higher than they've been since last May. 

It's not over. And thanks to these assholes who want to ignore Science, Health and Safety, it's likely to never be over.

Yeah, there are a lot of assholes out there that need to get vaccinated.  But rants like this aren't helping.  They're actually hurting a lot.

The science overwhelmingly shows that the vaccine is remarkably successful at what it does.  It's very good at reducing the chances that people get COVID and very good at preventing major symptoms even if somebody does.  It's also very good at reducing the overall transmission of COVID.  The vaccines are actually much better than we expected them to be ahead of time, even in the face of these new strains.

One of the major factors that's causing people to not get the vaccine is this ideology that even if you get the vaccine, you can't change anything about your behavior.  Then what's the motivation for getting the vaccine if it doesn't do anything for you?  At some undefined point in the future something might magically change if we hit some undefined threshold?  You're NEVER going to get fence sitters on board with arguments like that.

If we want people to go out and get the vaccine, we have to get away from the fearmongering where we insist that everybody who has received the vaccine still has to huddle at home in fear.  We need to be emphasizing the things that they can safely do after getting the vaccine, which is actually quite a bit.

Yes, there are some exceptions where people will still want to be very careful, especially if they have somebody in an at risk category at home.  And yes, things aren't completely back to normal.

But there is a whole swath of things that most people can safely do once they get the vaccine.  And if we really want people to go out and get the vaccine, we need to be talking about those things, rather than huddling at home in fear even after the vaccine.  And we need to be talking about the fact that a lot of places in the US are probably close to herd immunity (or even over the threshold) - many reasonable sources estimate that the number of people with some form of immunity is ~60%, which is really quite good.


Yeah I'm not really getting these "new" outside rules. There was never any reason to wear a mask just to go for a walk.

The CDC has a messaging problem.
 
4 days ago  

thatboyoverthere: I want nothing more than to go out and do farking something. But I can't because I have four other people in my house and I don't want to be the one that kills them. With my mental health, I don't give a shiat if I die somedays, but I am not killing my family.


I had to remind some my friends that I am still in quarantine because one member of my household is too young to vaccinate.  I figure it'll be at least a year until that situation changes.  Not happy at all about.
 
4 days ago  

Znuh: We're nowhere, NOWHERE near normal.


I don't want normal, either.  Normal is what made this suck so farking hard.  We should be better than that.  UBI, universal healthcare, a complete overhaul of how we handle real estate and policing from the ground up should be the basic minimum ask at this point to prevent this shiat from killing the economy and people next time around.  And absofarkinglutely there will be a next time.
 
4 days ago  

Dinjiin: I remember this episode of the Simpsons.

[Fark user image image 280x158]


Well, fret not. Mass shootings are increasing, showing that America is returning to venture outdoors again.
 
4 days ago  

LineNoise: STOP IT. You have plenty of people who don't want to participate in healthy society, and want to feel good about doing nothing, and are trying to take it away from them.

I bet you play sports. And have a girlfriend who doesn't live in Canada, and don't appreciate magna.


Shrug, I'm making points in completely line with the best available science.  Including Public Policy related science about how to actually convince people to do stuff.

You're launching ad hominem attacks.

There are a lot of people out there who could be convinced to get the vaccine with the right argument.  Hell, Donald Trump was convinced to get the vaccine.  And he'd already had COVID, so it wasn't even that immediately important for him.  But he got convinced.

So instead of screaming in people's face because it feels good, we should instead of thinking about how to do actual good in society by convincing people to get the vaccine.
 
4 days ago  

Dewey Fidalgo: LOL.   That's a nice bubble you got going there, thinking that everyone can work from home.   Good on those who can, but it's rather hard to catch fish from home.   Not everyone is a cubical drone.   No offense to cubical drones, mind you.


So i've worked from home well before the pandemic, and one of the nice things was, i got to go to client locations. I got to pop over to the bagel place in the morning and shoot the shiat with some oldtimers there, pop into the deli at lunch and shoot the shiat with them there....that is sort of half assedly coming back, but the big thing was i got to travel or even if i had a quiet day, go take a random client to lunch.

I don't expect to go to a client site until 2022. Even though i'm vaccinated, there is nothing more i want to do, etc. Nobody is going to allow it.

And i worry that people said, "hey, we can work from home" and it will be more of a rarity for me not going onsite. And there is a big part of social interaction, getting to know someone, building relationships, etc that doesn't happen over zoom or what have you. I'm not saying everyone needs to be in the office 5 days a week.....but there is a benefit in human to human interaction.

My wife used to mock me how regimented i was with my routine working from home before this. It took about 3 weeks before she became a acolyte to "Ok, here is what to do if you don't want to lose your mind".

I think there are a lot of people who fell into a rut during this because they literally phoned it in, and aren't happy at the prospect of having to climb back out.
 
4 days ago  

IHadMeAVision: Znuh: Science, Health and Safety,

Is that something like the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost?


Not really, what you're talking about is out of some 2000 year old fiction.
 
4 days ago  
Started new job at the ED in Nov and I'm ready to quit because the patients and their families are horrible to deal with. Part of it may be that my tolerance for dealing with people is diminished, but people seem to be more assholish than they used to be. My coworkers and I discuss it frequently. Between the threats of shootings and bombs and the general belligerent behavior when asked to follow rules that have been in place for over a year, I'm done dealing with people.
 
4 days ago  
Your "cave syndrom" is my "normal day routine" and I LIKE it that way.
 
4 days ago  
I've probably seen a dozen different cutesy names for this in the past two weeks. Why can't anyone just call it agoraphobia? Does it terrify people to put a genuine label on it, or does it terrify people to acknowledge that it's a reasonable reaction, and a well-understood and treatable problem? Can't fix widespread anxiety if you keep making up euphemisms to cover it up.
 
4 days ago  

Znuh: TL/DR: Sensible people have acknowledged that with vaccine refusal, states opening too early, the increase in the variety and number of variants (some which can reinfect you if you've had COVID and recovered), they're being cautious and reducing their chance of exposure. 

The very last paragraph in the article: 

"Teo says there is a type of distorted thinking that maybe things will be better later. "Based on what we understand about immunity and the variantscoming onboard, quite the opposite is true," he adds."

We're nowhere, NOWHERE near normal. The Map of the US is still mostly red. Rates are higher than they've been since last May. 

It's not over. And thanks to these assholes who want to ignore Science, Health and Safety, it's likely to never be over.


While I wholeheartedly agree with the overall sentiment, even without achieving the vaccination of 75% of the population (because stupid anti-science thinking), and even with the multiplication of variants, Covid will *eventually* become just another respiratory disease.

For it to "never end" would require no immunity whatsoever to an infection (a real one, with some symptoms). And everything we've discovered about Covid points to an immunity proportional to the severity of symptoms and at least 6 months immunity (quite probably longer).

So, even if nothing else was done, while hundreds of thousands (millions, really) would die needlessly, eventually the disease wouldn't be able to travel from host to host with as much ease.

Having said that, let's continue to social distance a while longer, get vaccinated (proof of vaccination should be required for concerts, travels, amusement parks and large social indoor gatherings, but don't listen to me I'm a Canadian socialist...)
 
4 days ago  

Kit Fister: because no one wants to be out and about, having discovered it's way more comfortable to not do that?


I mean, that's what works for ME, but perhaps others don't think so?
 
4 days ago  
imgix.bustle.comView Full Size

/why should I?
 
4 days ago  

Krazikarl: One of the major factors that's causing people to not get the vaccine is this ideology that even if you get the vaccine, you can't change anything about your behavior.  Then what's the motivation for getting the vaccine if it doesn't do anything for you?  At some undefined point in the future something might magically change if we hit some undefined threshold?  You're NEVER going to get fence sitters on board with arguments like that.


fark 'em let 'em die.
 
4 days ago  

Znuh: Rates are higher than they've been since last May.


No they aren't.   The number of new cases is about what it was last May, *WAY* down from the peak during November, December, and January.   And the trend line is nose-diving because people have been getting vaccinated.

Also, the number of deaths per 100,000 people is trending way down, and it's a *TINY* fraction of the death rate back in May 2020.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-track​er/#demographicsovertime

You can have your own opinion, you don't get to make up your own set of facts.
 
4 days ago  
I'm fully vaccinated, but I like staying at home and I always have been an introvert and homebody. This year has given me the freedom to be that and not feel any social pressure to get out there. I'm happy like this and I think many others are, too.

I'm going to keep wearing a mask as well. Sure because of the unvaccinated, but also because it's another barrier to unwanted social interaction.
 
4 days ago  
I think a lot of people have began to appreciate what they have at home and are grateful for the constant break from social obligations. I know I am.
 
4 days ago  

Malenfant: Dewey Fidalgo: The Googles Do Nothing: With weed being delivered, video games to be played, and work from home nobody needs to leave the house anymore except the poors.

LOL.   That's a nice bubble you got going there, thinking that everyone can work from home.   Good on those who can, but it's rather hard to catch fish from home.   Not everyone is a cubical drone.   No offense to cubical drones, mind you.

People who think for a living are the opposite of drones. It seems like you may seek to feel superior to people who are able to find better paying work than you can that also allows them the flexibility to work from home.


Dude, I am not the one who made the gross leap that everyone who isn't a poor can work from home.   And again, while I was digging with the cubical drone, I see the snobbery involved.   Some people do "think", including, using my personal example, fishermen, especially the skippers (there is a reason why Rolaids are called skipper mints, the decisions involved in where and when and even why a skipper chooses to drop their gear to, you know, not killing themselves and their crew can be very stressful and does involve intelligence and critical thinking).

There are very intelligent people who can work for home.  That's great, I'm all for it.  But so can data entry people.  Who again, may be very intelligent, but in many cases make crap wages...you know, the poors.
 
4 days ago  

Wobambo: [imgix.bustle.com image 375x206]
/why should I?


I can't help but to think that episode was strongly influenced by Bad Dragon.
 
4 days ago  
I've been getting outside again but I'm still a big no on restaurants or really any confined spaces. I don't even know why when I try to step back and examine it, I know that I'm as protected as I can reasonably be at this point, even if I do get sick I won't die, etc.

I just don't feel comfortable yet.
 
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