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(The New York Times)   "The Trumpian right have decided America is facing a crisis like never before and they are the small army of warriors fighting with Alamo-level desperation to ensure the survival of the country as they conceive it"   (nytimes.com) divider line
    More: Murica, Liberalism, Democracy, Donald Trump, Republican friends, February Economist-YouGov poll, William Saletan of Slate, good people, Republican politicians  
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2088 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Apr 2021 at 9:20 AM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-04-23 8:02:15 AM  
May they enjoy the same fate, although this time Texas stays its own country.
 
2021-04-23 8:04:45 AM  
Conceive or perceive? I think the wrong word was used.
 
2021-04-23 8:33:44 AM  
The "crisis" is too many black and brown people for their comfort. That is all it is.
 
2021-04-23 8:34:09 AM  
So they are peeing on the side of democracy.
 
2021-04-23 8:46:20 AM  

Ambivalence: Conceive or perceive? I think the wrong word was used.


You can't reason someone out of an argument they weren't reasoned into in the first place.

This isn't a surprise at all. Frankly this  "wait until the boomers die off" that gets trotted out is demonstrably bullshiat. These farkers aren't going away nearly in time for the rest of us to deal with the existential crisis that they largely created.

As tired as it is, we aren't one people, we never were, and we can't possibly move forward -or even tread water- trying to drag these deplorables behind us, funding them with red state welfare as they happily stab at us.
 
2021-04-23 9:21:23 AM  
Did they check the basement for a secret pedo ring? Does the Alamo even serve pizza?
 
2021-04-23 9:22:00 AM  

shastacola: The "crisis" is too many black and brown people for their comfort. That is all it is.


And gay and trans people.

And wimminfolk.

And heathens.

But yeah, mostly black and brown people.
 
2021-04-23 9:23:21 AM  
David Brooks?

I'm gonna guess he blames universities and "cancel culture".

*Checks article*

Yep.  Big surprise there.

/He's particularly concerned about those things since he married a college age research assistant and fears being cancelled for it
 
2021-04-23 9:24:04 AM  
Did the Murica tag shoot the Obvious tag? I thought this was well known.

yohohogreengiant: Ambivalence: Conceive or perceive? I think the wrong word was used.

You can't reason someone out of an argument they weren't reasoned into in the first place.

This isn't a surprise at all. Frankly this  "wait until the boomers die off" that gets trotted out is demonstrably bullshiat. These farkers aren't going away nearly in time for the rest of us to deal with the existential crisis that they largely created.

As tired as it is, we aren't one people, we never were, and we can't possibly move forward -or even tread water- trying to drag these deplorables behind us, funding them with red state welfare as they happily stab at us.


Well we're going to have to do that anyway, because as much of a masturbatory fantasy it is on this board to simply cut off half the country, it is absolutely never going to happen. Sorry. So instead of wasting time on that, maybe it would be more productive to put some mental effort into figuring out how to fix it, whether you want to or not.
 
2021-04-23 9:24:21 AM  
 
2021-04-23 9:24:45 AM  

yohohogreengiant: This isn't a surprise at all. Frankly this  "wait until the boomers die off" that gets trotted out is demonstrably bullshiat. These farkers aren't going away nearly in time for the rest of us to deal with the existential crisis that they largely created.


More to the point, they have/are indoctrinating their children into the same bonkers mindset and beliefs they hold. It's not like they're not trying to perpetuate their bullsh*t on the way out.
 
2021-04-23 9:26:22 AM  
I love how Corporate American papers like the NYT are still refusing to name the republican party was white nationalist fascist whose goals are the suspension of democracy.

it is just great.
 
2021-04-23 9:26:31 AM  
So they have the same sentiment the left had when Trump was in office?
 
2021-04-23 9:26:37 AM  
They are the "crisis in America", ffs
 
2021-04-23 9:26:38 AM  
They're fighting to ensure the survival of something that never was.
 
2021-04-23 9:26:45 AM  

yohohogreengiant: May they enjoy the same fate, although this time Texas stays its own country.


Texas, like pretty much every single state in the country, is liberal where people vote and conservative where land votes.  People need to stop acting as if Texas is somehow different than everywhere else.  It's not.
 
2021-04-23 9:26:59 AM  

yohohogreengiant: May they enjoy the same fate, although this time Texas stays its own country.


A bit of a tangent, but I've noticed that Texas secessionist types are all super gung-ho about the idea until a non-Texan is also all for it, at which point they get all angry for some reason.
 
2021-04-23 9:27:50 AM  
Said it yesterday, they will not be satisfied until there's shooting.

Then it will be all "Why is this such a horrible tragedy! Stop shooting us back we're dying and it's terrible!"
 
2021-04-23 9:28:06 AM  
That Alamo refererence --  The defenders were fighting a dictator who assinated the elected president.  The defenders were all Mexican citizens, some were immigrants.  They were also Roman Catholics, now entombed in the Cathedral in San Antonio, some converted as a requirement of citizenship.  They weren't evangelical protestants.
 
2021-04-23 9:28:10 AM  

Headso: So they have the same sentiment the left had when Trump was in office?

Difficulty

:  truth has a left wing bias, so.....

Not even remotely an equivalency
 
2021-04-23 9:28:15 AM  
See that house that's not on fire? That's the fake news telling you it's not on fire.  It's clearly on fire.  Only I can put it out!


With your continued donation and let me live in the U S Treasury.
 
2021-04-23 9:28:49 AM  
I accept their terms.
 
2021-04-23 9:30:07 AM  

Headso: So they have the same sentiment the left had when Trump was in office?


No, and stop trying to pretend that's true.
 
2021-04-23 9:30:48 AM  

LL316: People need to stop acting as if Texas is somehow different than everywhere else.  It's not.


Maybe Texas could start first.
 
2021-04-23 9:31:01 AM  
Is this concern from Brooks? Thanks for the paywall wapo.
 
2021-04-23 9:31:45 AM  
This is the thought process all movements want their adherents to believe, whether it's a worthwhile one (i.e. equal rights) or not (i.e. *gestures at Republican "platform"*). The problem tends to be that the more detached from reality an ideology is the more fervent the adherents. Those kinds of people will fight and die for the shot of dopamine they get from their confirmation bias getting validated externally.
 
2021-04-23 9:31:58 AM  

shastacola: The "crisis" is too many black and brown people for their comfort. That is all it is.


That and this...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-23 9:33:49 AM  
Even when conservatives recognize something rotten their ranks, it's still liberal's fault.  They take responsibility for nothing.

Which includes their successes, because they have none.
 
2021-04-23 9:34:55 AM  
DRTA

The sentence I've come to despise over most others is "We know socialism doesn't work." It's a mindless mantra repeated without irony and as though it concludes all political debate. But ask "What do you mean by socialism?"

The answer is "You know, socialism. Socialism doesn't work."
Ask in reply "But how do you define socialism?"
Answer: "Socialism, it's socialism. (pause) We know socialism doesn't work."
Respond "Maybe, can you tell me a place where socialism was tried and didn't work."
The next answer will vary with the individual and may invoke the Stalinist USSR, Chairman Mao, North Korea, or the latest repressive African nation featured in the American news. After holding forth for a few sentences, the conclusion is "So, we know socialism doesn't work."

The entire process is too frustrating to bear.
 
2021-04-23 9:35:22 AM  
Fox News
 
2021-04-23 9:35:32 AM  

cannibalparrot: yohohogreengiant: May they enjoy the same fate, although this time Texas stays its own country.

A bit of a tangent, but I've noticed that Texas secessionist types are all super gung-ho about the idea until a non-Texan is also all for it, at which point they get all angry for some reason.


Same whenever anyone from a "Blue" state suggests cutting a bunch of red states loose - in a heartbeat they go from support for succession to "if the blue states try to leave we'll murder all the liberals in them".

What they're really looking for is complete and total disenfranchisement of their political opposition while still being able to funnel money from prosperous cities to the rural areas they live in.
 
2021-04-23 9:35:51 AM  
Cosplay from the Cul-d-sac.

Cheaper than golf....to a point
 
2021-04-23 9:36:30 AM  

Bruscar: DRTA

The sentence I've come to despise over most others is "We know socialism doesn't work." It's a mindless mantra repeated without irony and as though it concludes all political debate. But ask "What do you mean by socialism?"

The answer is "You know, socialism. Socialism doesn't work."
Ask in reply "But how do you define socialism?"
Answer: "Socialism, it's socialism. (pause) We know socialism doesn't work."
Respond "Maybe, can you tell me a place where socialism was tried and didn't work."
The next answer will vary with the individual and may invoke the Stalinist USSR, Chairman Mao, North Korea, or the latest repressive African nation featured in the American news. After holding forth for a few sentences, the conclusion is "So, we know socialism doesn't work."

The entire process is too frustrating to bear.


It's how the propaganda works. Define something as bad. Blame everything on it. Witness the "rise" of Antifa.
 
2021-04-23 9:37:28 AM  
"So be it." - Sistah Soljah
 
2021-04-23 9:38:25 AM  

Target Builder: cannibalparrot: yohohogreengiant: May they enjoy the same fate, although this time Texas stays its own country.

A bit of a tangent, but I've noticed that Texas secessionist types are all super gung-ho about the idea until a non-Texan is also all for it, at which point they get all angry for some reason.

Same whenever anyone from a "Blue" state suggests cutting a bunch of red states loose - in a heartbeat they go from support for succession to "if the blue states try to leave we'll murder all the liberals in them".

What they're really looking for is complete and total disenfranchisement of their political opposition while still being able to funnel money from prosperous cities to the rural areas they live in.


That's why all secession votes should be on a county by county basis. The red counties can leave and the blue ones can stay.
 
2021-04-23 9:38:37 AM  

yohohogreengiant: Ambivalence: Conceive or perceive? I think the wrong word was used.

You can't reason someone out of an argument they weren't reasoned into in the first place.

This isn't a surprise at all. Frankly this  "wait until the boomers die off" that gets trotted out is demonstrably bullshiat. These farkers aren't going away nearly in time for the rest of us to deal with the existential crisis that they largely created.

As tired as it is, we aren't one people, we never were, and we can't possibly move forward -or even tread water- trying to drag these deplorables behind us, funding them with red state welfare as they happily stab at us.


It's not as lopsided or distributed as you imagine.  Texas has an economy about the same size as California right now.
Thanks to lobbying and super pacs, food stamps, health insurance subsidies, and housing policies have massively subsidized big businesses across the country, to lower taxes and bigly increase pay outs for the top 0.01% of individuals.
For example, WalMart pioneered this kind of thing in the 1990s by demanding local and state funds to build superstores in the same area.  Government paid for roads, traffic signals, and even building site work.  WalMart then waited for the superstores to bankrupt other businesses in the region and then would shut all but one superstore.  They limited hours and employee wages so they qualified for state and federal benefits.  Amazon, Uber, and others have followed suit.
This is the big problem.  We need more small and medium businesses and we need the market to pay for these benefits, not tax payers.
 
2021-04-23 9:38:52 AM  

Barricaded Gunman: LL316: People need to stop acting as if Texas is somehow different than everywhere else.  It's not.

Maybe Texas could start first.


Nah, Flordia will be first.
 
2021-04-23 9:39:01 AM  
Right wing terrorism is going to SURGE.

The GOP needs to disavow the radicals in their party before this gets out of control.
 
2021-04-23 9:39:23 AM  
This aligns well with what is known as the NYPD model of extremism / radicalization:

PRE-RADICALIZATION. Pre-Radicalization is the point of origin for individuals before they begin this progression.  The majority of the individuals involved in extremism began as "unremarkable" - they had "ordinary" jobs, had lived "ordinary" lives and had little, if any criminal history.

SELF-IDENTIFICATION. Self-Identification is the phase where individuals gradually gravitate away from their old identity and begin to associate themselves with like-minded individuals and adopt this ideology as their own.  The catalyst for this is a cognitive opening, or crisis, which shakes one's certitude in previously held beliefs and opens an individual to be receptive to new worldviews.

INDOCTRINATION. Indoctrination is the phase in which an individual progressively intensifies his beliefs that the conditions and circumstances exist where action is required to support and further the cause.  Association with like-minded people becomes increasingly important as radical views are encouraged and reinforced.

JIHADIZATION. Jihadization is the phase in which members of the cluster accept their individual duty to participate in violence and self-designate themselves as holy warriors.  While the other phases of radicalization may take place gradually, over two to three years, this component can be a very rapid process.

So... take a normal white guy.  Then put him under stress.  Then introduce him to conservative propaganda.  Conservative media tells him his problems are caused by immigrants and Democrats.  They and tell him that there is constant crisis, that he is under attack.  And he begins to believe that.  Eventually he comes to see violence as righteous, and himself as a holy defender of his way of life.

Difficulty - the above model was put together to explain how Islamic terrorist organizations recruit and radicalize people to deploy against their state.
 
2021-04-23 9:39:47 AM  

BitwiseShift: That Alamo refererence --  The defenders were fighting a dictator who assinated the elected president.  The defenders were all Mexican citizens, some were immigrants.  They were also Roman Catholics, now entombed in the Cathedral in San Antonio, some converted as a requirement of citizenship.  They weren't evangelical protestants.


I don't think all of the defenders were Mexican Citizens...A large group of settlers came from the East
at the urging of Austin..The "Old 300" ..Some of those folks were even Mormons...And a number of
these people were involved in the creation of the Republic of Texas..
 
2021-04-23 9:40:10 AM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size

2037: President Ocasió-Cortez daughter, Juanita receives the remains of the Requbliqan party in a barf bag
 
2021-04-23 9:40:43 AM  

yohohogreengiant: Frankly this  "wait until the boomers die off" that gets trotted out is demonstrably bullshiat. These farkers aren't going away nearly in time for the rest of us to deal with the existential crisis that they largely created.


The bloviators on TV might be Boomers. The ones in the street are not.
 
2021-04-23 9:40:47 AM  

Barricaded Gunman: Headso: So they have the same sentiment the left had when Trump was in office?

No, and stop trying to pretend that's true.


Woman lets out agonising screams as Trump is sworn in as President
Youtube wDYNVH0U3cs
 
2021-04-23 9:40:59 AM  

Headso: So they have the same sentiment the left had when Trump was in office?


Oh look!

Another one pump threadshiatter!

Enjoy your new orange cloak.

*favorited!*
 
2021-04-23 9:41:00 AM  
David Brooks decrying the growing insanity of the right while pushing cancel culture fear mongering in the same article is peak David Brooks.
 
2021-04-23 9:41:14 AM  

Private_Citizen: Right wing terrorism is going to SURGE.

The GOP needs to disavow the radicals in their party before this gets out of control.


You expect them to disavow their base?
 
2021-04-23 9:41:43 AM  
Then they'd better be ready to face the consequences of their actions, just as those defenders were. Also, they may get to learn that not everybody that believes they are a martyr will be revered by future people.
 
2021-04-23 9:42:21 AM  

Private_Citizen: Right wing terrorism is going to SURGE.

The GOP needs to disavow the radicals in their party before this gets out of control.


Their way of life and holding power is slowly getting eroded as they get pushed in to the dustbin of history with the rest of the trash.

Given that they'd prefer the chaos because there's the chance to maintain a grip on power.

They won't eject the radicals, because they want things out of control.
 
2021-04-23 9:43:14 AM  

pdieten: Did the Murica tag shoot the Obvious tag? I thought this was well known.

yohohogreengiant: Ambivalence: Conceive or perceive? I think the wrong word was used.

You can't reason someone out of an argument they weren't reasoned into in the first place.

This isn't a surprise at all. Frankly this  "wait until the boomers die off" that gets trotted out is demonstrably bullshiat. These farkers aren't going away nearly in time for the rest of us to deal with the existential crisis that they largely created.

As tired as it is, we aren't one people, we never were, and we can't possibly move forward -or even tread water- trying to drag these deplorables behind us, funding them with red state welfare as they happily stab at us.

Well we're going to have to do that anyway, because as much of a masturbatory fantasy it is on this board to simply cut off half the country, it is absolutely never going to happen. Sorry. So instead of wasting time on that, maybe it would be more productive to put some mental effort into figuring out how to fix it, whether you want to or not.


You could stop funding Republican-majority industries and economically attenuate them.

Pay for people to get college degrees. It removes regressive grooming from childhoold fairly effectively and benefits liberals/doesn't benefit conservatives by a fair margin.

Take away agriculture subsidies for industries like beef cattle ranching. It is heavily a right-wing industry and gets a large amount of their income from taxpayer money. Just stop the taxpayer money and let them go bankrupt.

Pass anti-domestic-terrorism laws and get members of groups like the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys on terror watch lists. Ostracize them from society and make them toxic to interact with.

There isn't going to be measures to cut off red states, but targeted economic policy to reduce benefit to seditionist traitors is certainly possible.
 
2021-04-23 9:45:04 AM  

Target Builder: Same whenever anyone from a "Blue" state suggests cutting a bunch of red states loose - in a heartbeat they go from support for succession to "if the blue states try to leave we'll murder all the liberals in them".

What they're really looking for is complete and total disenfranchisement of their political opposition while still being able to funnel money from prosperous cities to the rural areas they live in.


Yes, they want to have their cake and take a sh*t on ours, too.
 
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