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(IMDB)   So, how does it all end? This is your Falcon and the Winter Soldier Finale discussion thread. Streaming Now (Spoilers)   (imdb.com) divider line
    More: Live, Academy Award for Best Picture, Captain America, Bucky, Sam Wilson, Bucky Barnes, 2008 in film, Avengers, Academy Award  
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222 clicks; posted to Discussion » and Entertainment » on 23 Apr 2021 at 4:12 AM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-04-23 3:50:55 AM  
There is a mid-credits scene.
 
2021-04-23 4:50:24 AM  
Not the slam dunk ending I was hoping for but solid enough. Still hoping after the Captain America & the Howling Commandos movie set back in World War 2 with the resurrected and time-displaced Black Widow and introducing Wolverine, they follow up with a movie set during the Korean War with Isaiah as Cap, Logan, and the Winter Soldier as a villain (extra appropriate villain: Omega Red).

/call me, Marvel
//work 4 cheap
 
2021-04-23 5:34:00 AM  
Can't watch till later with my daughter 😕
 
2021-04-23 5:46:00 AM  
With credits
 
2021-04-23 6:01:26 AM  
Called Sharon as the Power Broker.
 
2021-04-23 6:09:40 AM  
it was weak in the whole big fight sequence. I didn't care for the way it kept bouncing back and forth between all the components to move the plot. seemed a little disjointed. but the end landed well with the feels and the personal side of the story. the new suit looked good but will be a bugger to keep clean.
 
2021-04-23 6:12:16 AM  

Incorrigible Astronaut: Called Sharon as the Power Broker.


I don't think it's really Sharon.
 
2021-04-23 6:15:36 AM  
No Antman?  No thanks.
 
2021-04-23 6:36:38 AM  

Hobodeluxe: Incorrigible Astronaut: Called Sharon as the Power Broker.

I don't think it's really Sharon.


Skrull?

I loved the episode. Sam's new suit looks amazing, Bucky smiling and being happy at the end was a good look on him, it looks like Val is putting together the Thunderbolts at Ross's direction. Everything's coming up aces.
 
2021-04-23 7:15:26 AM  

replacementcool: Hobodeluxe: Incorrigible Astronaut: Called Sharon as the Power Broker.

I don't think it's really Sharon.

Skrull?


That would make more sense.
 
2021-04-23 7:28:09 AM  
It really didn't need that scene
 
2021-04-23 7:34:14 AM  

alice_600: It really didn't need that scene


no but it set up something to come later.
 
2021-04-23 7:41:46 AM  
oooh I forgot, Mortal Kombat is out this morning. time to fire up my HBO max and get my chi fix.
 
2021-04-23 8:02:29 AM  
Some nice moments but the whole series felt...meh?

Bucky confessing to his friend was cut wayyy too short

Flagsmashers were terrible villains, possibly due to the rumoured bio weapon plot being cut

Sharon's twist is eh

Zemo was great, and the museum but were great
 
2021-04-23 8:04:14 AM  

Incorrigible Astronaut: replacementcool: Hobodeluxe: Incorrigible Astronaut: Called Sharon as the Power Broker.

I don't think it's really Sharon.

Skrull?

That would make more sense.


Now that I think about it she hid her wound and refused medical treatment. Definitely skrull.
 
2021-04-23 8:04:37 AM  
I loved Walkers almost Shatneresque anguished trying to figure out the right thing to do. I don't know if these grimdark antiheroes are a good idea for the MCU but he's okay.
 
2021-04-23 8:07:07 AM  

replacementcool: Incorrigible Astronaut: replacementcool: Hobodeluxe: Incorrigible Astronaut: Called Sharon as the Power Broker.

I don't think it's really Sharon.

Skrull?

That would make more sense.

Now that I think about it she hid her wound and refused medical treatment. Definitely skrull.


Well she's also a criminal mastermind, so there's that.
 
2021-04-23 8:15:28 AM  
If Carter is a Skrull it must have burned her/his/its ass to have to use one of those holomask things before she revealed herself.
 
2021-04-23 8:24:44 AM  

Tinners478: Some nice moments but the whole series felt...meh?

Bucky confessing to his friend was cut wayyy too short

Flagsmashers were terrible villains, possibly due to the rumoured bio weapon plot being cut

Sharon's twist is eh

Zemo was great, and the museum but were great


Agree with all of this. I'll add that all of the Sam/Isaiah stuff about being black and Captain America was great, too.

But yeah, overall it felt like an eight episode series that had two episodes cut. Way too many jarring transitions and under-developed villains outside of the three Zemo episodes. Even Sharon's heel turn felt like it needed more buildup to be the big plot twist they wanted it to be in the last episode. It was the opposite of Netflix Marvel shows.

Oh, and Walker's turn into U.S. Agent with Val felt forced. Maybe it's just the name. I felt like they could have done more with turning him into a Blackwater-style U.S. "backed" mercenary, but the Hydra connection should pay dividends well enough in the future.
 
2021-04-23 8:27:16 AM  

Incorrigible Astronaut: replacementcool: Hobodeluxe: Incorrigible Astronaut: Called Sharon as the Power Broker.

I don't think it's really Sharon.

Skrull?

That would make more sense.


That's my bet, no relation to Peggy would be evil
 
2021-04-23 8:27:57 AM  
*Zemo's butler counts as a badass after this episode too haha
 
2021-04-23 8:29:25 AM  

replacementcool: Incorrigible Astronaut: replacementcool: Hobodeluxe: Incorrigible Astronaut: Called Sharon as the Power Broker.

I don't think it's really Sharon.

Skrull?

That would make more sense.

Now that I think about it she hid her wound and refused medical treatment. Definitely skrull.


I thought the refusing medical treatment was due to her status as a public enemy.  Going to a public hospital would have her ER room surrounded by the Feds.  She still needed Sam to clear her name.
 
2021-04-23 8:53:11 AM  

Incorrigible Astronaut: *Zemo's butler counts as a badass after this episode too haha


it also makes sense, his country was also destroyed.
 
2021-04-23 9:11:47 AM  

Incorrigible Astronaut: But yeah, overall it felt like an eight episode series that had two episodes cut. Way too many jarring transitions and under-developed villains outside of the three Zemo episodes. Even Sharon's heel turn felt like it needed more buildup to be the big plot twist they wanted it to be in the last episode. It was the opposite of Netflix Marvel shows.


I was just going to say it did indeed feel rushed but beat the Netflix shows where they never had enough plot for a whole season, and blew their entire production budget on filming on-location in New York. It's pretty good for something that I'm sure when it was conceived(and I guess I'm talking about Wandavision too here) was intended to just be filler in between the movies, not our primary content for the year.
 
2021-04-23 9:19:39 AM  
I'm going 7 out of 10.

It was overall pretty good. I enjoyed all of the themes and arcs. Acting was good, action was OK. (Calling bullshiat on the Sam truck lift).
Weekest part for me were the flagsmashers.

/I'm digging Carter
//I want more Madame Hydra
///whats with the helicopter pilot being able to hit Sam twice with the main rotor blades, that has got to be some legendary piloting
 
2021-04-23 9:38:53 AM  
////Poor Batroc
 
2021-04-23 9:44:49 AM  

Incorrigible Astronaut: Called Sharon as the Power Broker.


Me too, and I NEVER get those predictions right. ;)
 
2021-04-23 9:44:57 AM  
So I like that the new suit isn't just a falcon suit, and that the wings totally retract so he's not running around on the ground with wings sticking out.

Have to wonder, though, if Wakanda holds the key to the suit and can turn it off like they turned off Bucky's arm.

Either way, good series. I enjoyed it a lot.
 
2021-04-23 9:45:33 AM  
What was the mid credit scene? My Disney+ gave an error during the credits, and now it won't let me play it again 😐
 
2021-04-23 9:54:55 AM  

WilderKWight: So I like that the new suit isn't just a falcon suit, and that the wings totally retract so he's not running around on the ground with wings sticking out.

Have to wonder, though, if Wakanda holds the key to the suit and can turn it off like they turned off Bucky's arm.

Either way, good series. I enjoyed it a lot.


We were hoping Karli shot Sam in the chest and he'd be "that's right, biatch. Vibranium!"
 
2021-04-23 9:57:10 AM  

PandaBearJambalaya: What was the mid credit scene? My Disney+ gave an error during the credits, and now it won't let me play it again 😐


Sharon getting pardoned but still being secretly all Power Brokery
 
2021-04-23 10:11:15 AM  
The Falcon has a hi-tech suit that enables him to fly, yet his only means of subduing the bad guys is by fist fighting them. Can he get a taser or something? Jeez.
 
2021-04-23 10:19:47 AM  

Chainsaw Turd Elf: The Falcon has a hi-tech suit that enables him to fly, yet his only means of subduing the bad guys is by fist fighting them. Can he get a taser or something? Jeez.


If the wings can block a crashing helicopter, use them to hit someone.
 
2021-04-23 10:35:04 AM  

Space Station Wagon: Chainsaw Turd Elf: The Falcon has a hi-tech suit that enables him to fly, yet his only means of subduing the bad guys is by fist fighting them. Can he get a taser or something? Jeez.

If the wings can block a crashing helicopter, use them to hit someone.


And they can penetrate a concrete floor.
 
2021-04-23 10:44:15 AM  
Gee, that new expansion at the Smithsonian's Captain America exhibit is really dusty.
 
2021-04-23 10:45:54 AM  

Chainsaw Turd Elf: The Falcon has a hi-tech suit that enables him to fly, yet his only means of subduing the bad guys is by fist fighting them. Can he get a taser or something? Jeez.


In fairness, tasers are not having their best moment right now...
 
2021-04-23 11:10:25 AM  
That better be a skrull Sharon otherwise Aunt Peggy going be pissed from beyond the grave
 
2021-04-23 11:18:32 AM  
OK, lotsa thoughts.
1) Yeah, 4 billion people suddenly returning is gonna pose some logistical hell nightmares, but that's 4 billion beloved people thought gone and suddenly back, the good will across the globe would be infinite.  Yes, a rock solid biatch of a time having twice as many mouths to feed... but all those loved ones are back!  We'll scrimp and save and hot bunk on the couch for some months until we work things out.  My point: I don't think there would be as much negative backlash from the blip as the show portrays, I don't think there would be a Flag Smashers or a GRC.  But that's such an outlandish scenario there's really no way to guess how humanity would react.  We're dysfunctional chimps, after all, how well could we possibly react?

2) Consider the average person after the snap.  Half of everybody they loved disappeared.  They grieved, they re-organized their lives around the missing people, they moved on... then the loved ones came back.  What Clint felt when he answered his phone was felt by about 4 billion people!  Incredible joy!  Like nothing humanity has ever even considered, let alone experienced.  And anybody that had anything to do with bringing about the blip, or rather correcting the snap, would be the world's greatest heroes time a thousand.  Yeah, most of the army that defeated Thanos was Wakandans and Ravegers, but the leadership was mostly American.  And they died.  So the survivors of that battle, especially two that were closely associated with Steve Rogers, would be lauded forever in the biggest way.  No way would Sam Wilson have any kind of financial problems with a broken boat if it's known that he was part of the army that saved half of the sentient beings in the Universe.  Bucky would maybe have some relief from his guilt knowing he helped save half the universe.  And it would become known what happened and who helped because 8 billion people would have said "What the hell just happened" and too many people were involved not to have several talk to the media.  No reason to keep it secret anyway.

3)  Goddamn, I wanted Sharon to be a good guy.  So now I have to wonder if she was really Hydra, or if she just became bad because she felt the US crapped on her.  If the latter, what the hell, biatch, get over it.

4) fark it, it's a comic book movie and I loved it.  Sam with the Wakanda wings and the shield is awesome.  Bucky is a great anti-hero.  The bad guys are established, the good guys are ready to go.  So start cranking out the movies and TV.

5) Julia Louis-Dreyfuss.  Thumbs up, Gene.  Thumbs up, Roj.
 
2021-04-23 11:20:33 AM  

hotrod2001: Gee, that new expansion at the Smithsonian's Captain America exhibit is really dusty.


I read a screencap of the inscription on the base of the statue. It makes the room REALLY dusty
 
2021-04-23 11:25:24 AM  

BeerBear: That better be a skrull Sharon otherwise Aunt Peggy going be pissed from beyond the grave


OH shiat.  Hadn't thought of that.  Skrulls are expected to be big in the MCU in the next few movies.

The ending made me think they were hinting at Agent Carter 2.0, but with a dirty Agent Carter.
 
2021-04-23 11:30:35 AM  

Aquapope: Yeah, 4 billion people suddenly returning is gonna pose some logistical hell nightmares, but that's 4 billion beloved people thought gone and suddenly back, the good will across the globe would be infinite.  Yes, a rock solid biatch of a time having twice as many mouths to feed... but all those loved ones are back!  We'll scrimp and save and hot bunk on the couch for some months until we work things out.  My point: I don't think there would be as much negative backlash from the blip as the show portrays, I don't think there would be a Flag Smashers or a GRC.  But that's such an outlandish scenario there's really no way to guess how humanity would react.


Yeah fiction (and miserable misanthropists, people pushing political agendas...) always underestimate our ability to cope with crises. It probably wouldn't be so bad...though there probably would be places where it is as bad as that. But they're definitely going to keep mining the Blip until we're all sick of it!
 
2021-04-23 11:43:57 AM  
Yeah, I don't think the Skrull thing makes any more sense than Sharon being bitter and becoming an arms dealer.
 
2021-04-23 11:45:28 AM  
Overall, I liked it. These Marvel shows, so far, are just setting up future projects and giving a few side characters more depth. And that's a good thing.

I feel like Loki might be different, because I don't see him popping up much more in movies.
 
2021-04-23 11:53:09 AM  

AnotherBluesStringer: Overall, I liked it. These Marvel shows, so far, are just setting up future projects and giving a few side characters more depth. And that's a good thing.

I feel like Loki might be different, because I don't see him popping up much more in movies.


Main timeline Loki is canonically dead, so it is unlikely we would see much out of him outside of the D+ series.
 
2021-04-23 12:01:12 PM  

MolsonCanadian: Aquapope: Yeah, 4 billion people suddenly returning is gonna pose some logistical hell nightmares, but that's 4 billion beloved people thought gone and suddenly back, the good will across the globe would be infinite.  Yes, a rock solid biatch of a time having twice as many mouths to feed... but all those loved ones are back!  We'll scrimp and save and hot bunk on the couch for some months until we work things out.  My point: I don't think there would be as much negative backlash from the blip as the show portrays, I don't think there would be a Flag Smashers or a GRC.  But that's such an outlandish scenario there's really no way to guess how humanity would react.

Yeah fiction (and miserable misanthropists, people pushing political agendas...) always underestimate our ability to cope with crises. It probably wouldn't be so bad...though there probably would be places where it is as bad as that. But they're definitely going to keep mining the Blip until we're all sick of it!


Most people were happy to have their loved ones back.  But lots of people would also be resentful of billions coming back.  Not all.  Not even most.  But enough.  "Yay my loved ones are back!", but also "All those other people are back too.  shiat."  Not thinking of them as loved ones.  Thinking of them as competition.  I imagine the snap provided a LOT of upward mobility for people.  And suddenly that's uncertain.  IRL we talk about living through how many financial crises and how many wars and it's overwhelming.  The MCU is a world where half of everyone turned to dust, planes fell out of the sky, half the cars on the roads suddenly had no drivers, causing more deaths and chaos.  Economics, industry, society all shift, I imagine sometimes violently.  And then five years later, no warning, Guess who's back! And society and industry and economy all have to absorb another body blow.  Uncertainty.  And all the trouble it brings.

I think the snap and blip are clever ways to shift certain social and legal gears that we'd roll our eyes and shake our heads at in a more reality-adjacent story.  But these are unthinkable things, and so who knows how governments would react.
 
2021-04-23 12:25:38 PM  
Not with a bang, but a whimper?
 
2021-04-23 12:26:41 PM  
OK, put up with my liberal arts degree self thinking too much about this.

--The first 23 movies, everything up to and including End Game, had a lot of child/parent relationship themes.  Tony, Thor, both Peters, Gamorra, Nebula, Loki, they all had some kind hangup with a parent or parent figure.  The hangup was usually a conflict between what the character thought of themselves versus what the parent figure thought of them, expectations versus reality.  Typical maturation theme.  Odin and Thor was one kind of conflict, and Odin and Loki another, but still all about what the kid thought of himself versus what the dad thought.  Thor was privileged and thought he was due everything, until dad shut him down.  Loki thought himself just another son of Odin, until he found out he's the son of the enemy and doubted his place after.  Peter Parker latched onto Tony as a father figure, Tony yearned for a father who paid attention.  Peter Quill's father figure wanted to eat him, and he deified his dead mother.  Gamorra and Nebula - their psychological parent problems are cosmic, literally.

-- From WandaVision and Falcon and the Winter Soldier, it seems like the theme might have shifted to the characters' struggles to identify themselves.  A more internal version of the theme from the first 23 movies.

Wanda's whole deal was trying to define who she was without her nation, her Sokovian family, her love... she forced a whole town to live through all of the permutations of what she thought her live should be like... what she should be like in each of those contexts, until she figured out that she's beyond letting the context define her.

Sam struggles to reconcile his being the real Cap with an America that he thinks won't accept a black Cap.  He finds out he's wrong, but it's still a self-identity struggle.  The struggle is compounded by Isaiah's struggle to do the same, and it crushed him.  He's finally defined himself as Cap's successor, allowed himself that title.

Bucky has the biggest struggle to get beyond what he was and become what he wants to be.  Half a century of guilt for killing hundreds.  He's trying to get past it.  He's trying to redefine himself.

-- And all that above fits well in the new MCU that deals with alternate realities and alternate characters.  Now Peter Parker might have to confront himself as Andrew Garfield or Tobey McGuire.  Which one is the real Peter?  It still comes down to "Who am I and what do I want me to be".  There's an alternate me, is it better.  There's another alternate me, should I try to be that?  It fits well with story lines that involve Skrulls - who is a real person, what does it mean to be that person?  If you replace the head and handle of the axe that chopped down Washington's cherry tree, do you really still have that famous axe?  Is a person more than the sum of his elements?  Does Adam Warlock, built atom by atom from the ground up, have any say in who he is?  Does Ben Grimm, having had almost every bit of his humanity ground away?

So, up to now, the theme was "Who am I supposed to be and how do I deal with that?", and now the theme is "Who I want me to be and how do I get there?".
 
2021-04-23 12:40:42 PM  

Aquapope: 1) Yeah, 4 billion people suddenly returning is gonna pose some logistical hell nightmares, but that's 4 billion beloved people thought gone and suddenly back, the good will across the globe would be infinite.  Yes, a rock solid biatch of a time having twice as many mouths to feed... but all those loved ones are back!  We'll scrimp and save and hot bunk on the couch for some months until we work things out.  My point: I don't think there would be as much negative backlash from the blip as the show portrays, I don't think there would be a Flag Smashers or a GRC.  But that's such an outlandish scenario there's really no way to guess how humanity would react.  We're dysfunctional chimps, after all, how well could we possibly react?


Not everybody has people.

I mean, if you've got a family that would take you in and miss you when you were blipped away, that's great for you, but you're assuming that this is the case for everyone else. Some folks don't have any loved ones. They don't have any family. They don't have partners, friend-networks, or even extended families.

Out of 3.5 BILLION people, what percentage do you think might not have family to turn to? How many lost their family to other tragedies while they were gone?

Look at me: I have a partner. I have octogenarian parents. I have a sibling but we don't really get along. That's it. The rest of my family is long since dead (and I was never close to them because they were all evangelical conservative crazies and I am an agnostic/pagan gender fluid progressive). My friends network was whittled down to nothing by my abusive, isolating ex-spouse well over a decade ago. If I blipped out, and came back five years later my parents might be dead (five years is a lot for people in their late 80s). My partner may have moved on, or may have died in the chaos, or who knows what. My sibling would have written me off and gone through my stuff.

So if I came back after that five years to a house that was rented to someone else, I'd be homeless. What am I to do? Go to my partner, now moved on and with someone else, and tell her to ditch that guy and come back to me? Sure. I could. I might. But she isn't obligated to totally rearrange her life AGAIN, and I wouldn't pressure her to do so.

And the day I go begging to my sibling will be a cold day in Hell.

Point is: Some of us wouldn't necessarily have a network of people to take us in and help us get re-situated in a chaotic post-Thanos world. And you assuming everyone has a long list of someones to turn to is exactly the kind of arrogance and hubris that Karli was talking about.

We're not all blessed like you. We're not all able to just jump back into a life after five years of not existing. I should know: My previous marriage was nearly 20 years of not existing, and getting back into the world and starting over was a real struggle only made possible by my parents' generosity and my current partner's love and friendship.

Karli was speaking for those of us who don't have a huge friends and family network. Those who assume everyone has this sort of life and that everyone would have been just fine are the problem Karli was trying to shout about. She did it all wrong, and she became a supremacist like Zemo said, but she wasn't wrong about the fact that being displaced SHOULD be everyone's problem, but most people act like it's NOT their problem at all and ignore it/sweep it under the rug.
 
2021-04-23 12:44:17 PM  

The Green Intern: Most people were happy to have their loved ones back.  But lots of people would also be resentful of billions coming back.  Not all.  Not even most.  But enough.  "Yay my loved ones are back!", but also "All those other people are back too.  shiat."


Just think of how Tucker Carlson would react.

All those black people, Mexicans, foreigners, Jews, liberals... They were gone and he was happy about that. You know he was. And then they came back.

Oh, he'd be mad. He'd be on FOX News complaining about them being the dregs of society, a drain on resources, and dancing around the idea that maybe Thanos had it right but just went overboard a tiny bit.

You know it.
 
2021-04-23 12:44:46 PM  

WilderKWight: We're not all blessed like you.


Don't assume anything or make it personal.
 
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