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(The Hill)   Here's why giving some Rich Assholes more money is a better idea than building a public domain of up to date research, according to some Rich Asshole   (thehill.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Research, United States, Economics, Economic growth, Economy, Innovation, Technology, Research and development  
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1885 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Apr 2021 at 8:19 PM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



33 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-04-22 4:11:47 PM  
Farnam Jahanian currently serves as the 10th president of Carnegie Mellon University. He previously served as assistant director at the National Science Foundation, heading the Computer and Information Science and Engineering directorate.
 
2021-04-22 5:36:07 PM  
I can imagine worse ways to make rich people richer than the government doubling its R&D spending.
 
2021-04-22 7:52:27 PM  
Look, Pittsburgh is a success story, and he's right that universities can't be the only place we direct research money. For one thing, universities, real research universities, are extraordinarily expensive. I work for one. Tuition - not room and board + tuition - is over $50K a year. It's difficult to get into and it's difficult to afford. However, we have several partnerships with other companies in the area to help out.

For example, we have small but very well funded Civil, Mechanical, and Fluid engineering departments. Most of the experimental work they do requires custom equipment we can't produce in-house at our machine shop, so we contract out. This normally works pretty well, except you can't find a good welder these days to save your goddamn life because they're in such high demand. There's a welding school in our city - what if we partnered? It isn't focused on four-year degree students, it's focused mainly on getting people on probation into a good career. It would be win-win.

We have grad students slog for 60 hours a week to train machine learning models. What if we had money to hire high school students to do the grunt work? They'd learn something, get paid, and it opens up a path for their future. Throwing money at R&D usually has a decent rate of return. It's not Bitcoin over four years, but it frequently pays off better than average.
 
2021-04-22 8:29:12 PM  
Rich assholes have no idea how much damage they do to Canada by taking our data and controling our lives with it. They should not have any more pub lic funds for research and development in STEM. All things data need public sector funding, all the way.
 
2021-04-22 8:30:10 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: Rich assholes have no idea how much damage they do to Canada by taking our data and controling our lives with it. They should not have any more pub lic funds for research and development in STEM. All things data need public sector funding, OWNERSHIP independent of rich assholes,all the way.


Whoops ftfm
 
2021-04-22 8:31:34 PM  

Lsherm: Look, Pittsburgh is a success story, and he's right that universities can't be the only place we direct research money. For one thing, universities, real research universities, are extraordinarily expensive. I work for one. Tuition - not room and board + tuition - is over $50K a year. It's difficult to get into and it's difficult to afford. However, we have several partnerships with other companies in the area to help out.

For example, we have small but very well funded Civil, Mechanical, and Fluid engineering departments. Most of the experimental work they do requires custom equipment we can't produce in-house at our machine shop, so we contract out. This normally works pretty well, except you can't find a good welder these days to save your goddamn life because they're in such high demand. There's a welding school in our city - what if we partnered? It isn't focused on four-year degree students, it's focused mainly on getting people on probation into a good career. It would be win-win.

We have grad students slog for 60 hours a week to train machine learning models. What if we had money to hire high school students to do the grunt work? They'd learn something, get paid, and it opens up a path for their future. Throwing money at R&D usually has a decent rate of return. It's not Bitcoin over four years, but it frequently pays off better than average.


Word.  PA resident here (obviously not bragging).  I worked for the Commonwealth for well over a decade, working directly with our state tax credits.  Of them all, the only one that I ever felt was worthwhile was R&D.  It fits nice with PA's traditional economy and workforce.  I'm not sure it fits everywhere, but, I always felt it worked well here.  As for the rest of our tax credits, pure giveaways, at the individuals and consumers expense.
 
2021-04-22 8:32:44 PM  

Lsherm: What if we had money to hire high school students to do the grunt work?


My 16 year old is doing exactly that this semester.
 
2021-04-22 8:36:27 PM  
A lot to agree with ... until this part:

double the number of graduate students and post-doctoral researchers in science and engineering

There are already too many grad students and post docs and not nearly enough jobs to support them after their almost-indentured servitude.

Science is operated like a pyramid scheme: young people throw away their prime early earning years in hopes they land a rare and coveted position afterward. Universities and corporations love it - they get tons of cheap or plentiful labor.
 
2021-04-22 8:40:15 PM  
Recent research has shown that empirical evidence for globalization of corporate innovation is very limited and as a corollary the market for technologies is shrinking. As a world leader, it's important for America to provide systematic research grants for our scientists. I believe strongly there will always be a need for us to have a well-articulated innovation policy with emphasis on human resource development. Thank you.
 
2021-04-22 8:40:48 PM  
Stop wasting my time
You know what I want
You know what I need
Or maybe you don't
Do I have to come right flat out and tell you everything?
Gimme some money, gimme some money
 
2021-04-22 8:49:21 PM  

kbronsito: Recent research has shown that empirical evidence for globalization of corporate innovation is very limited and as a corollary the market for technologies is shrinking. As a world leader, it's important for America to provide systematic research grants for our scientists. I believe strongly there will always be a need for us to have a well-articulated innovation policy with emphasis on human resource development. Thank you.


Fark user imageView Full Size


/what happened?  I blacked out.
 
2021-04-22 8:49:49 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: A lot to agree with ... until this part:

double the number of graduate students and post-doctoral researchers in science and engineering

There are already too many grad students and post docs and not nearly enough jobs to support them after their almost-indentured servitude.

Science is operated like a pyramid scheme: young people throw away their prime early earning years in hopes they land a rare and coveted position afterward. Universities and corporations love it - they get tons of cheap or plentiful labor.


And then exploit H1-B visas so they get cheaper immigrants that they can treat like shiat because if they complain, they get fired and immediatly deported. AMERICA!
 
2021-04-22 8:51:17 PM  
TheHill...

"No." - Me
 
2021-04-22 8:54:34 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: A lot to agree with ... until this part:

double the number of graduate students and post-doctoral researchers in science and engineering

There are already too many grad students and post docs and not nearly enough jobs to support them after their almost-indentured servitude.

Science is operated like a pyramid scheme: young people throw away their prime early earning years in hopes they land a rare and coveted position afterward. Universities and corporations love it - they get tons of cheap or plentiful labor.


Agreed. Double the number of grad students and post docs? Ok, are you gonna pay them? Because when I was a grad student I made so little money I had to attach letters to my income tax returns explaining how I was able to live on so little. And how I did that was student loans. So now that I make a decent salary, I'm still paying off my student loan debt, which will hit the automatic forgiveness deadline (I'm on IBR) long before I put a dent in it. I made a little more as a post doc, but of course, my student loan payments kicked in so I was still in poverty.
 
2021-04-22 8:54:36 PM  

Lsherm: Look, Pittsburgh is a success story, and he's right that universities can't be the only place we direct research money. For one thing, universities, real research universities, are extraordinarily expensive. I work for one. Tuition - not room and board + tuition - is over $50K a year. It's difficult to get into and it's difficult to afford. However, we have several partnerships with other companies in the area to help out.

For example, we have small but very well funded Civil, Mechanical, and Fluid engineering departments. Most of the experimental work they do requires custom equipment we can't produce in-house at our machine shop, so we contract out. This normally works pretty well, except you can't find a good welder these days to save your goddamn life because they're in such high demand. There's a welding school in our city - what if we partnered? It isn't focused on four-year degree students, it's focused mainly on getting people on probation into a good career. It would be win-win.

We have grad students slog for 60 hours a week to train machine learning models. What if we had money to hire high school students to do the grunt work? They'd learn something, get paid, and it opens up a path for their future. Throwing money at R&D usually has a decent rate of return. It's not Bitcoin over four years, but it frequently pays off better than average.


Have the mech engineering dept expand and require machining and welding.  You greatly expand your production ability, plenty of skilled personnel on site and you dont graduate engineers that do not know farkall on how to make something.  Greenhorns get worse every year.
 
2021-04-22 8:54:49 PM  
The third trend is a widening opportunity gap and rising economic inequality.

But they think this is a good thing.
 
2021-04-22 8:55:44 PM  
It's wild how every time, rich assholes think that rich assholes should have all the money.
 
2021-04-22 8:56:46 PM  
Is that English? Jesus H, Hemingway is at about 5600 RPM/.
 
2021-04-22 9:02:57 PM  
Which we could accomplish through increased taxes on corporate profits, creating an incentive for businesses to spend on research and development and lines of business. :)
 
2021-04-22 9:05:35 PM  

Huggermugger: The third trend is a widening opportunity gap and rising economic inequality.

But they think this is a good thing.


No. He explicitly points out that this is partly why we are currently 9th.
 
2021-04-22 9:09:22 PM  

abb3w: Farnam Jahanian currently serves as the 10th president of Carnegie Mellon University. He previously served as assistant director at the National Science Foundation, heading the Computer and Information Science and Engineering directorate

some rich guy's fluffer.


ftfy
 
2021-04-22 9:48:31 PM  
The problem with Trickle Down is nothing reaches the rest of us. There's negative returns for each $1 cut to capital gains or $1 to stock buybacks,

Under Trump, the US lived in GQP paradise, so why aren't all of us rich?
 
2021-04-22 10:10:07 PM  

Moose out front: TofuTheAlmighty: A lot to agree with ... until this part:

double the number of graduate students and post-doctoral researchers in science and engineering

There are already too many grad students and post docs and not nearly enough jobs to support them after their almost-indentured servitude.

Science is operated like a pyramid scheme: young people throw away their prime early earning years in hopes they land a rare and coveted position afterward. Universities and corporations love it - they get tons of cheap or plentiful labor.

Agreed. Double the number of grad students and post docs? Ok, are you gonna pay them? Because when I was a grad student I made so little money I had to attach letters to my income tax returns explaining how I was able to live on so little. And how I did that was student loans. So now that I make a decent salary, I'm still paying off my student loan debt, which will hit the automatic forgiveness deadline (I'm on IBR) long before I put a dent in it. I made a little more as a post doc, but of course, my student loan payments kicked in so I was still in poverty.


Man, can I relate. I will never say I was truly poor because that is wildly different, but I do remember March 94 real well. 2 10lb bags of potatoes, 10lb bag of calrose rice, 10 lbs of frozen ground beef (the 69 cent a pound stuff back then), 10 boxes of kraft dinner, and good ole lawrys seasoning salt (sams club super sized portion).

Lived for 45 days eating solely that after all my fellowship money ran out, and  i could not get loans, and I  lost my night job (company closed- best bar ever). My high points were eating a periodic kraft dinner when i could swipe butter and milk from a graduate student reception. One time I literally stole half and half mini cups to make kraft dinner.

Got a new night job third week of April after about 7 weeks of that crap, and got a paycheck in early may ending the nightmare.  I celebrated with a Big Mac and fries... and then started paying down the three credit cards  i maxed out prior to march.
 
2021-04-22 10:13:58 PM  
I also learned that as long as you wore a tie, looked like you belonged, and did not do it everyday, you could go to a hotel continental breakfast. i would walk 1 mile out of my way on the way to campus two times a week to hit the amerihost inn.
 
2021-04-22 10:55:03 PM  

MarciusDecimus: Moose out front: TofuTheAlmighty: A lot to agree with ... until this part:

double the number of graduate students and post-doctoral researchers in science and engineering

There are already too many grad students and post docs and not nearly enough jobs to support them after their almost-indentured servitude.

Science is operated like a pyramid scheme: young people throw away their prime early earning years in hopes they land a rare and coveted position afterward. Universities and corporations love it - they get tons of cheap or plentiful labor.

Agreed. Double the number of grad students and post docs? Ok, are you gonna pay them? Because when I was a grad student I made so little money I had to attach letters to my income tax returns explaining how I was able to live on so little. And how I did that was student loans. So now that I make a decent salary, I'm still paying off my student loan debt, which will hit the automatic forgiveness deadline (I'm on IBR) long before I put a dent in it. I made a little more as a post doc, but of course, my student loan payments kicked in so I was still in poverty.

Man, can I relate. I will never say I was truly poor because that is wildly different, but I do remember March 94 real well. 2 10lb bags of potatoes, 10lb bag of calrose rice, 10 lbs of frozen ground beef (the 69 cent a pound stuff back then), 10 boxes of kraft dinner, and good ole lawrys seasoning salt (sams club super sized portion).

Lived for 45 days eating solely that after all my fellowship money ran out, and  i could not get loans, and I  lost my night job (company closed- best bar ever). My high points were eating a periodic kraft dinner when i could swipe butter and milk from a graduate student reception. One time I literally stole half and half mini cups to make kraft dinner.

Got a new night job third week of April after about 7 weeks of that crap, and got a paycheck in early may ending the nightmare.  I celebrated with a Big Mac and fries... and then started paying down the three credit cards  i maxed out prior to march.


I remember surviving off of cookies and coffee from my leasing office and receptions at the university for weeks when I started my PhD.

And then at one point, the graduate dean had the absolute gall in a meeting to say to me that she was "concerned" about the amount of outside work I was taking on.  With what you pay me, what the f*ck do you expect me to do?

I got her to admit that exactly zero people had complained about any lack of quality in my academic performance, at which point she dropped it because she knew it was a BS power move. I was tantalizingly close to simply setting her on fire.

Epilogue: a few months later, she herself had to present me with an award for academic excellence. And my comps were so impressive--the best they'd seen in at least two decades, they said--that my department created a "with distinction" category to describe them. So she can extra go f*ck herself.

/she stepped down before I graduated
//I hope wherever she is, she's miserable.
 
2021-04-22 11:33:29 PM  
Look, it's simple.  Rich people need money because they have expenses.  Poor people have shiat, so they cost almost nothing.  I kid, but not so much.

The nation is experiencing a watershed moment for science and innovation.

That's the first sentence in the article.  That sentence has started 16 articles per year since 1996 in 64 different news and science magazines.  The thing is, in any advancing technological society, it's always a watershed moment for some kind of science and innovation.  1996 was a waterhead moment for America Online.
 
2021-04-23 12:30:32 AM  

FlippityFlap: Is that English? Jesus H, Hemingway is at about 5600 RPM/.


I did my PhD with in a scientific field with an MD supervisor and am familiar with this particular dialect. It is Pomplish. It is used by pompous arses who want to pretend they are helpfully trying to educate "laymen" when they actually just want grammatically caress themselves and prove they have a thesaurus app.
 
2021-04-23 2:20:29 AM  

webron: It's wild how every time, rich assholes think that rich assholes should have all the money.


Rich assholes
Cant live with them
Can live without them.
 
2021-04-23 4:04:22 AM  
With the history of Americans funding research and then companies exploiting a monopoly after being given that product such as the Epipen, why should we pay for the next monopoly?
 
2021-04-23 5:15:23 AM  

Aquapope: 1996 was a waterhead moment for America Online.


Early contender for "Oddly Appropriate Typo of the Day"
 
2021-04-23 9:46:03 AM  
So how many times per year has this article been written in the oh 40 years?

Grad school is a legal form of slavery though the salary is much better now.  Post-docs are mostly foriegn as mist US students can get jobs with companies as they see the University track as non existent now.

/20 years later and my student loan is paid off later this year.
 
2021-04-23 10:28:36 AM  

Saiga410: Have the mech engineering dept expand and require machining and welding.  You greatly expand your production ability, plenty of skilled personnel on site and you dont graduate engineers that do not know farkall on how to make something.  Greenhorns get worse every year.


We do SOME welding and machining training, but if a professor is running an experiment on underwater pressure vessels, we can't get students up to that level of skill. At some point you need an experienced welder or an experienced machinist, not an engineer. We do have our own shop with a full time machinist, but he's overworked and underpaid. We don't have enough welding work to justify hiring someone full time just to do that.
 
2021-04-23 10:39:35 AM  

austerity101: MarciusDecimus: Moose out front: TofuTheAlmighty: A lot to agree with ... until this part:

double the number of graduate students and post-doctoral researchers in science and engineering

There are already too many grad students and post docs and not nearly enough jobs to support them after their almost-indentured servitude.

Science is operated like a pyramid scheme: young people throw away their prime early earning years in hopes they land a rare and coveted position afterward. Universities and corporations love it - they get tons of cheap or plentiful labor.

Agreed. Double the number of grad students and post docs? Ok, are you gonna pay them? Because when I was a grad student I made so little money I had to attach letters to my income tax returns explaining how I was able to live on so little. And how I did that was student loans. So now that I make a decent salary, I'm still paying off my student loan debt, which will hit the automatic forgiveness deadline (I'm on IBR) long before I put a dent in it. I made a little more as a post doc, but of course, my student loan payments kicked in so I was still in poverty.

Man, can I relate. I will never say I was truly poor because that is wildly different, but I do remember March 94 real well. 2 10lb bags of potatoes, 10lb bag of calrose rice, 10 lbs of frozen ground beef (the 69 cent a pound stuff back then), 10 boxes of kraft dinner, and good ole lawrys seasoning salt (sams club super sized portion).

Lived for 45 days eating solely that after all my fellowship money ran out, and  i could not get loans, and I  lost my night job (company closed- best bar ever). My high points were eating a periodic kraft dinner when i could swipe butter and milk from a graduate student reception. One time I literally stole half and half mini cups to make kraft dinner.

Got a new night job third week of April after about 7 weeks of that crap, and got a paycheck in early may ending the nightmare.  I celebrated with a Big Mac and fries.. ...


When I was in grad school (State U of New York - Stony Brook 2001-2007) we were forbidden from having outside jobs. If they caught you working somewhere it was immediate dismissal from the program. My stipend was, iirc, around $5,000 per semester. It was not possible to afford living in Long Island on $10k per year. I really had no choice but to take out loans. I lived on instant coffee and the cheapest, shiattiest food I could buy. An early roommate of mine was dating a guy who owned an Italian restaurant, so every once in awhile I could get some decent pasta and meatballs. If you were lucky, you could get a teaching gig over the summer to make some extra cash... not a lot though... the teaching assistants made more (regular stipend pay) than the teacher (teaching pay).

Grad school is slave labor. Post docs are a little better, but you're still expected to work evenings and weekends for far less than you could be making outside of academia. Colleges and universities need to change.
 
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