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(Politico (Europe))   "Juventus chief blames Brexit for Super League collapse" Man, I can never keep track of these European DC titles, was he the one with super-speed or the one who could fly?   (politico.eu) divider line
    More: Interesting, Premier League, UEFA, Serie A, controversial football Super League, President, Promotion and relegation, UEFA Champions League, Juventus chief Andrea Agnelli  
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153 clicks; posted to Sports » on 21 Apr 2021 at 10:21 AM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



33 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-04-21 8:42:02 AM  
He's the one with the bad hair.
 
2021-04-21 9:07:27 AM  
I think he's the one who can just barely touch his opponent and they flail to the ground in apparent agony.
 
2021-04-21 9:22:58 AM  
these farking people just can't admit that their greed just doesn't really have a wide appeal outside of the people who were in line to get paid
 
2021-04-21 10:20:05 AM  
Just have a big game, on a Sunday in February. The winner is the champion. Sheesh, how difficult is that.
 
2021-04-21 10:30:05 AM  
Brexit is bargain Aquaman; he saved all the British fish only.
 
2021-04-21 10:31:44 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-21 10:34:09 AM  
My dad sent me a link from CNBC, the super-capitalists. One of their regulars, who is British, flat out admitted that England were addicted to soccer, that soccer demand was too inelastic to be "unregulated."
 
2021-04-21 10:49:28 AM  

Dead for Tax Reasons: these farking people just can't admit that their greed just doesn't really have a wide appeal outside of the people who were in line to get paid


I would like to see a more relevant mid week European championship.

The Champions league often has no interesting or meaningful games until extremely late in the season. If wanting to see the top teams in Europe play each other makes me greedy, then so be it.
 
2021-04-21 10:50:35 AM  

Dead for Tax Reasons: these farking people just can't admit that their greed just doesn't really have a wide appeal outside of the people who were in line to get paid


The people most opposed to this are UEFA, who realise that by being cut out of the Champions League money, they will have a lot less money.

And, much like FIFA, fark UEFA.
 
2021-04-21 10:58:20 AM  
This was a trial balloon.  They'll eventually do it.
 
2021-04-21 11:01:42 AM  
So...let me see if I've got this.

The Champions league is kind of like a March Madness tournament for soccer. And then there's the Premiere/ Championship league in England where all the good English teams are.

But the most popular teams in England and Spain (Or wherever)  tried to make their own European Soccer version of say, the NFL or MLB? Because it's a better model for the owners to keep profits, and always, essentially, have really big matches instead of a bunch of squash matches which happen at the beginning of the Champions league.
 
2021-04-21 11:09:39 AM  
Here's the key sentence.

"I'm not going to say how many clubs contacted me in just 24 hours asking if they could join," he said, without naming them. "Maybe they lied, but I was contacted by a number of teams asking what they could do to join."

Everybody knows that there was more money in there. Most of these other clubs would have been told to fark right off because sharing money with them was the reason they wanted to form the league.

The reason they "backed" down is somehow they got more money - and of course, the moment they feel they can get more, they'll try again.

Always, ALWAYS, follow the money. It is literally the only thing that matters in sports anymore.
 
2021-04-21 11:10:57 AM  

Gubbo: The Champions league often has no interesting or meaningful games until extremely late in the season. If wanting to see the top teams in Europe play each other makes me greedy, then so be it.


Man U got bounced from the Champions League because they didn't think a game against Istanbul was interesting or meaningful. The idea that teams can by fiat declare themselves "the top teams" without actually beating the other teams is the big issue.

On the contrary, if these teams are playing each other for 18 weeks, I fail to see how any one particular game is going to stand out and draw attention. Ratings will not be better for that than they are for the current CL knockout rounds, and ratings for the championship would probably go down because it would lose the "rare chance to see these teams face off" appeal (think interleague play in baseball).

Lastly, the notion that Brexit is being blamed for the demise of an enterprise whose launching press release said "we need to do this to cope with Covid" is astoundingly rich.
 
2021-04-21 11:11:19 AM  

Sail The Wide Accountancy: So...let me see if I've got this.

The Champions league is kind of like a March Madness tournament for soccer. And then there's the Premiere/ Championship league in England where all the good English teams are.

But the most popular teams in England and Spain (Or wherever)  tried to make their own European Soccer version of say, the NFL or MLB? Because it's a better model for the owners to keep profits, and always, essentially, have really big matches instead of a bunch of squash matches which happen at the beginning of the Champions league.


No.

In general you play your domestic league (Premier league) on the weekends.
Midweek you have European competitions (this is where UEFA comes in)

The super league was envisioned as a way to make the midweek European competition both more interesting, relevant, and as a convenient by-product, more profitable to the teams.

UEFA, realizing that this would be less profitable to them, took umbrage with this idea. UEFA knows that the European competitions need a revamp which is  why they released their own plan on Monday which got drowned out.

/I like the idea of relevant mid week European games
//there was some stuff I don't like, the inclusion of a sneaky salary cap being one of them
 
2021-04-21 11:13:31 AM  

RminusQ: Gubbo: The Champions league often has no interesting or meaningful games until extremely late in the season. If wanting to see the top teams in Europe play each other makes me greedy, then so be it.

Man U got bounced from the Champions League because they didn't think a game against Istanbul was interesting or meaningful. The idea that teams can by fiat declare themselves "the top teams" without actually beating the other teams is the big issue.

On the contrary, if these teams are playing each other for 18 weeks, I fail to see how any one particular game is going to stand out and draw attention. Ratings will not be better for that than they are for the current CL knockout rounds, and ratings for the championship would probably go down because it would lose the "rare chance to see these teams face off" appeal (think interleague play in baseball).

Lastly, the notion that Brexit is being blamed for the demise of an enterprise whose launching press release said "we need to do this to cope with Covid" is astoundingly rich.


I don't think United are entirely relevant to the competition (I say that as a lapsed United fan, timezones not trophies). They could do it without them. When City pulled out though, that was the end of it.
 
2021-04-21 11:16:08 AM  
Gubbo:

No.

In general you play your domestic league (Premier league) on the weekends.
Midweek you have European competitions (this is where UEFA comes in)

The super league was envisioned as a way to make the midweek European competition both more interesting, relevant, and as a convenient by-product, more profitable to the teams.

UEFA, realizing that this would be less profitable to them, took umbrage with this idea. UEFA knows that the European competitions need a revamp which is  why they released their own plan on Monday which got drowned out.


Ok. So it's like as if the MLB only played other MLB teams on the weekend, and then during the week, certain teams, like say the Yankees, would go and play the best teams of Japan. And the two different leagues don't have an effect on the other? Like. You can win the Champions league, but come in last place in the Premiere league?
 
2021-04-21 11:17:46 AM  

Sail The Wide Accountancy: Gubbo:

No.

In general you play your domestic league (Premier league) on the weekends.
Midweek you have European competitions (this is where UEFA comes in)

The super league was envisioned as a way to make the midweek European competition both more interesting, relevant, and as a convenient by-product, more profitable to the teams.

UEFA, realizing that this would be less profitable to them, took umbrage with this idea. UEFA knows that the European competitions need a revamp which is  why they released their own plan on Monday which got drowned out.

Ok. So it's like as if the MLB only played other MLB teams on the weekend, and then during the week, certain teams, like say the Yankees, would go and play the best teams of Japan. And the two different leagues don't have an effect on the other? Like. You can win the Champions league, but come in last place in the Premiere league?


Sail The Wide Accountancy: Gubbo:

No.

In general you play your domestic league (Premier league) on the weekends.
Midweek you have European competitions (this is where UEFA comes in)

The super league was envisioned as a way to make the midweek European competition both more interesting, relevant, and as a convenient by-product, more profitable to the teams.

UEFA, realizing that this would be less profitable to them, took umbrage with this idea. UEFA knows that the European competitions need a revamp which is  why they released their own plan on Monday which got drowned out.

Ok. So it's like as if the MLB only played other MLB teams on the weekend, and then during the week, certain teams, like say the Yankees, would go and play the best teams of Japan. And the two different leagues don't have an effect on the other? Like. You can win the Champions league, but come in last place in the Premiere league?


Leeds tried that plan once, it didn't work out very well.

But yes, independent. But the only way to qualify for European football is to finish high up in your domestic league or win the champions league.

/generally if you can beat the best teams in Europe, you can beat your domestic opponents
//generally....
 
2021-04-21 11:39:34 AM  

Gubbo: /generally if you can beat the best teams in Europe, you can beat your domestic opponents


But not the reverse. As the SPFL keeps proving, and what the ESL will prove, is that these teams will only be as good as the last team they beat. And if the impetus to qualify is gone then while they pinky-promise won't be leaving the domestic leagues that will have to be the end result as one shiate season in the domestics will be enough to tank ESL performance. Assuming the plan wouldn't be to tank the domestics by putting reserves / kids out, of course. But that would mean they'd have to stop gobbling up talent on retainer deals, or demand that they aren't relegated from domestics either, so end result is Toodleoo Motherfarkers anyway.
 
2021-04-21 11:44:51 AM  

Sin'sHero: Just have a big game, on a Sunday in February. The winner is the champion. Sheesh, how difficult is that.


Honestly if the Super League had just been a single elimination tournament that might have actually gone over well. Keep participating in domestic leagues and the Champions league, but there would be a lot of fans of a single elimination, neutral site championship. It would be at most an additional 4 games for a club, but would still have the benefit of it being a "big names only" tournament.
 
2021-04-21 11:45:43 AM  

sephjnr: Gubbo: /generally if you can beat the best teams in Europe, you can beat your domestic opponents

But not the reverse. As the SPFL keeps proving, and what the ESL will prove, is that these teams will only be as good as the last team they beat. And if the impetus to qualify is gone then while they pinky-promise won't be leaving the domestic leagues that will have to be the end result as one shiate season in the domestics will be enough to tank ESL performance. Assuming the plan wouldn't be to tank the domestics by putting reserves / kids out, of course. But that would mean they'd have to stop gobbling up talent on retainer deals, or demand that they aren't relegated from domestics either, so end result is Toodleoo Motherfarkers anyway.


That's some crystal ball you have there. Does it predict the Lottery numbers as well?

Nobody is gonna tank their domestic league season, there's still far too much money in that.

/That's what the mickey mouse domestic cups are for.
 
2021-04-21 11:47:15 AM  

Klivian: Sin'sHero: Just have a big game, on a Sunday in February. The winner is the champion. Sheesh, how difficult is that.

Honestly if the Super League had just been a single elimination tournament that might have actually gone over well. Keep participating in domestic leagues and the Champions league, but there would be a lot of fans of a single elimination, neutral site championship. It would be at most an additional 4 games for a club, but would still have the benefit of it being a "big names only" tournament.


That misses the crux of the issue though.

The teams don't think that the Champions League is structured correctly (and yes, you can read that as they don't think that they get enough of the money).
 
2021-04-21 11:47:36 AM  
It should have been dead in the water when they couldn't get buy-in from France or Germany.
 
2021-04-21 11:52:10 AM  

Olympic Trolling Judge: It should have been dead in the water when they couldn't get buy-in from France or Germany.


PSG would have joined. But, the French sure as hell weren't gonna lead or be in the front wave of attention that was generated.

The Germans, well that's a more open question. It's hardly worth doing it without Bayern. On the list of cubs you 100% needed to claim you're a super league, you have Barca and Real, PSG, Bayern, and Man City. Maybe Juventus, maybe.
 
2021-04-21 11:56:24 AM  

Gubbo: Nobody is gonna tank their domestic league season, there's still far too much money in that.

/That's what the mickey mouse domestic cups are for.


Right now, yes there is. But to create a scenario where ESL money would dwarf domestic money is/was the ultimate goal of the ESL.
 
2021-04-21 12:38:46 PM  

Gubbo: Olympic Trolling Judge: It should have been dead in the water when they couldn't get buy-in from France or Germany.

PSG would have joined. But, the French sure as hell weren't gonna lead or be in the front wave of attention that was generated.

The Germans, well that's a more open question. It's hardly worth doing it without Bayern. On the list of cubs you 100% needed to claim you're a super league, you have Barca and Real, PSG, Bayern, and Man City. Maybe Juventus, maybe.


The problem with Bayern is the way Bundesliga clubs are structured, so that the owner cannot unilaterally make decisions like that. I'm sure if the ESL effort had continued they damn well would have found a way.
 
2021-04-21 12:41:11 PM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Gubbo: Olympic Trolling Judge: It should have been dead in the water when they couldn't get buy-in from France or Germany.

PSG would have joined. But, the French sure as hell weren't gonna lead or be in the front wave of attention that was generated.

The Germans, well that's a more open question. It's hardly worth doing it without Bayern. On the list of cubs you 100% needed to claim you're a super league, you have Barca and Real, PSG, Bayern, and Man City. Maybe Juventus, maybe.

The problem with Bayern is the way Bundesliga clubs are structured, so that the owner cannot unilaterally make decisions like that. I'm sure if the ESL effort had continued they damn well would have found a way.


Fans weren't going to want to watch Bayern destroy whatever teams were promoted up from the Europa to make up the "New and Improved Champions League".

/they get that beating up on scrubs feeling every weekend already
 
2021-04-21 12:46:47 PM  

Gubbo: Fans weren't going to want to watch Bayern destroy whatever teams were promoted up from the Europa to make up the "New and Improved Champions League".


Fans don't matter, money matters, and if Bayern gets more money from ESL they would find a way to join.

I'll say it again. Clubs would literally stack their fans in the center of the pitch and burn them if the TV revenue was high enough.
 
2021-04-21 12:55:04 PM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Gubbo: Fans weren't going to want to watch Bayern destroy whatever teams were promoted up from the Europa to make up the "New and Improved Champions League".

Fans don't matter, money matters, and if Bayern gets more money from ESL they would find a way to join.

I'll say it again. Clubs would literally stack their fans in the center of the pitch and burn them if the TV revenue was high enough.


If you let me pick which team we're doing that to, I'll pay a lot of money on PPV for that.
 
2021-04-21 12:58:56 PM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Gubbo: Fans weren't going to want to watch Bayern destroy whatever teams were promoted up from the Europa to make up the "New and Improved Champions League".

Fans don't matter, money matters, and if Bayern gets more money from ESL they would find a way to join.

I'll say it again. Clubs would literally stack their fans in the center of the pitch and burn them if the TV revenue was high enough.


In Germany, they do matter. Fans must hold a majority of the club's ownership, by rule.
 
2021-04-21 1:53:09 PM  

Gubbo: /I like the idea of relevant mid week European games


That's why the European Cup happened...save for the fact that a team like Manchester United could be knocked out in the 1st round.

That's why the Champions League happened...save for the fact that the likes of Real Madrid can't afford buying players at silly money because "Hey, Man City/PSG can outspend us."
 
2021-04-21 2:33:39 PM  

desertgeek: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Gubbo: Fans weren't going to want to watch Bayern destroy whatever teams were promoted up from the Europa to make up the "New and Improved Champions League".

Fans don't matter, money matters, and if Bayern gets more money from ESL they would find a way to join.

I'll say it again. Clubs would literally stack their fans in the center of the pitch and burn them if the TV revenue was high enough.

In Germany, they do matter. Fans must hold a majority of the club's ownership, by rule.


Yes, the famous "nine guys who are hand picked by the owner" fans. File under "But I'm a Packer's Stock Holder!!!"
 
2021-04-21 5:15:43 PM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: desertgeek: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Gubbo: Fans weren't going to want to watch Bayern destroy whatever teams were promoted up from the Europa to make up the "New and Improved Champions League".

Fans don't matter, money matters, and if Bayern gets more money from ESL they would find a way to join.

I'll say it again. Clubs would literally stack their fans in the center of the pitch and burn them if the TV revenue was high enough.

In Germany, they do matter. Fans must hold a majority of the club's ownership, by rule.

Yes, the famous "nine guys who are hand picked by the owner" fans. File under "But I'm a Packer's Stock Holder!!!"


Why don't you do some research before being found wanting? That example literally applies to only one team who are very happy to flout the rules.
 
2021-04-22 8:53:39 AM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Gubbo: Fans weren't going to want to watch Bayern destroy whatever teams were promoted up from the Europa to make up the "New and Improved Champions League".

Fans don't matter, money matters, and if Bayern gets more money from ESL they would find a way to join.

I'll say it again. Clubs would literally stack their fans in the center of the pitch and burn them if the TV revenue was high enough.


Didn't Liverpool try something like that a couple decades ago?

/Too soon?
 
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