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(The Hill)   New Jersey adding a "Who's askin'? What are you, the gender police? I got your gender identity right here pal" option to drivers licenses   (thehill.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Gender, New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission, United States, New Jersey, Male, New York City, 2006 albums, Female  
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939 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Apr 2021 at 8:49 PM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



50 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-04-20 5:20:11 PM  
Any move even slightly *forward* for trans/non-binary people is a huge win right now, considering how half of the country seems to have determined that "backwards at light speed" is the thing to do.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2021-04-20 6:56:11 PM  
Why not take the letter off entirely?  What purpose does it serve?
 
2021-04-20 7:08:19 PM  

ZAZ: Why not take the letter off entirely?  What purpose does it serve?


For trans people, having an ID that confirms they are who they say they are helps in tons of daily interactions like getting carded for beer or cashing a check. Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom" and traffic stops with shiatty cops.

Just as importantly, it is the government's recognition of their true selves. That's a mammoth mental health bonus.

"Lets get rid of gender on IDs", to me, feels like "let's get rid of state sponsored marriages" as a reaction to same-sex marriage being legalized. Throwing out an entire system because it now benefits "those people".

My 2 cents, YMMV
 
2021-04-20 7:45:56 PM  
As someone who inadvertently applied for a marker change 6 months before California started doing this, I am relieved for those wishing to change their ID.  I needed to fill out a bunch of forms, include my court order, letter from my doc, and my old ID. After a month of waiting, I found out that somewhere between the branch office and the head office, the packet with all of this got "lost".  So what should have taken 2 weeks took 3 1/2 months to sort out, get corrected, reapplied, and straightened out.  I'm still pissed. Hopefully, people in NJ won't have to endure that any longer.
 
2021-04-20 8:03:24 PM  
Sex yes
 
2021-04-20 8:51:31 PM  

Eclectic: Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom"


yeah the X gender isn't gonna help with that
 
2021-04-20 8:54:21 PM  
NJ gon' give X to ya.

/RIP
 
2021-04-20 8:54:57 PM  

moothemagiccow: Eclectic: Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom"

yeah the X gender isn't gonna help with that


Imagine, if you will, that I brought that up in reply to someone asking me "why have gender on ID at all?"

Personally, the "F" on my license has helped me when security has tried to frog march me out of a changing room because "omg there's a man in there!" and when I was denied bathroom use

The rest of the points I posted still apply to non-binary people.
 
2021-04-20 8:55:55 PM  

Eclectic: ZAZ: Why not take the letter off entirely?  What purpose does it serve?

For trans people, having an ID that confirms they are who they say they are helps in tons of daily interactions like getting carded for beer or cashing a check. Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom" and traffic stops with shiatty cops.

Just as importantly, it is the government's recognition of their true selves. That's a mammoth mental health bonus.

"Lets get rid of gender on IDs", to me, feels like "let's get rid of state sponsored marriages" as a reaction to same-sex marriage being legalized. Throwing out an entire system because it now benefits "those people".

My 2 cents, YMMV


My first instinct was also to question the need for gender on an id card. I'm not sure I agree with you position but now I'm not sure I agree with my first instinct either. I think it's going to take me a while to figure it out.
 
2021-04-20 8:56:34 PM  
That awkward moment when New Jersey is the progressive option...
 
2021-04-20 8:57:00 PM  

Eclectic: ZAZ: Why not take the letter off entirely?  What purpose does it serve?

For trans people, having an ID that confirms they are who they say they are helps in tons of daily interactions like getting carded for beer or cashing a check. Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom" and traffic stops with shiatty cops.

Just as importantly, it is the government's recognition of their true selves. That's a mammoth mental health bonus.

"Lets get rid of gender on IDs", to me, feels like "let's get rid of state sponsored marriages" as a reaction to same-sex marriage being legalized. Throwing out an entire system because it now benefits "those people".

My 2 cents, YMMV


I think he was more talking about the superfluous nature of marking gender on licenses, so while the comparison was valid I don't believe that was how they intended it to be taken.

This is a UK license, for example:

Fark user imageView Full Size


Gender isn't on there.  Just name, date of birth, date of issue/expiration, and address.
 
2021-04-20 8:57:41 PM  

Eclectic: The rest of the points I posted still apply to non-binary people.


so do they just pee in the street
 
2021-04-20 8:59:05 PM  

Somaticasual: That awkward moment when New Jersey is the progressive option...


So...you don't know much about NJ, do you?
 
2021-04-20 8:59:17 PM  

Murkanen: Eclectic: ZAZ: Why not take the letter off entirely?  What purpose does it serve?

For trans people, having an ID that confirms they are who they say they are helps in tons of daily interactions like getting carded for beer or cashing a check. Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom" and traffic stops with shiatty cops.

Just as importantly, it is the government's recognition of their true selves. That's a mammoth mental health bonus.

"Lets get rid of gender on IDs", to me, feels like "let's get rid of state sponsored marriages" as a reaction to same-sex marriage being legalized. Throwing out an entire system because it now benefits "those people".

My 2 cents, YMMV

I think he was more talking about the superfluous nature of marking gender on licenses, so while the comparison was valid I don't believe that was how they intended it to be taken.

This is a UK license, for example:

[Fark user image image 387x258]

Gender isn't on there.  Just name, date of birth, date of issue/expiration, and address.


Anything that helps trans people must be questioned as necessary at all. I know.

Never mind the 117 anti-trans laws proposed in 30 states this year. Here's one tiny win for non-binary people so "why do we even need gender on there".
 
2021-04-20 9:00:42 PM  

moothemagiccow: Eclectic: Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom"

yeah the X gender isn't gonna help with that


Maybe it's time we get rid of gender-specific bathrooms then. What bathrooms are non-binary or gender non-conforming people supposed to use?
 
2021-04-20 9:00:44 PM  
Kiss - Let's Put The X In Sex
Youtube lNKJ4SPj_Rw
 
2021-04-20 9:01:31 PM  

moothemagiccow: Eclectic: The rest of the points I posted still apply to non-binary people.

so do they just pee in the street


If Republicans had their way, yes, and then be arrested for public indecency.

Or, you know, the real answer which is: gender neutral restrooms and/or single occupancy, whatever makes them the moat comfortable.

Or just f*cking quit worrying about where everyone pees. It's not that f*cking hard.
 
2021-04-20 9:02:54 PM  

Eclectic: Any move even slightly *forward* for trans/non-binary people is a huge win right now, considering how half of the country seems to have determined that "backwards at light speed" is the thing to do.


They yearn to go back to that 1950s utopia that never existed.
 
2021-04-20 9:03:14 PM  
talkertopc:

My first instinct was also to question the need for gender on an id card. I'm not sure I agree with you position but now I'm not sure I agree with my first instinct either. I think it's going to take me a while to figure it out.

They're both valid arguments.  Gender shouldn't be on ID cards because it's superfluous information.  Unfortunately, with how the US is treating transgender individuals, removing it isn't an option because it ensures that transgender individuals have official documentation to obstruct bigots.
 
2021-04-20 9:04:20 PM  

moothemagiccow: Eclectic: The rest of the points I posted still apply to non-binary people.

so do they just pee in the street


I assume that any state with a non-binary designation on IDs wouldn't have shiatty anti-trans bathroom laws on the books, but maybe I'm just being naive.
 
2021-04-20 9:05:25 PM  

NeverDrunk23: Eclectic: Any move even slightly *forward* for trans/non-binary people is a huge win right now, considering how half of the country seems to have determined that "backwards at light speed" is the thing to do.

They yearn to go back to that 1950s utopia that never existed.


Their aggressions toward the queer community are essentially genocide. They don't even want us just to be second-class citizens--they want to remove us from society completely, using conversion "therapy" or denying us surgeries and medications, tearing us away from supportive families, and giving us no way to access healthcare, housing, employment, or state benefits or welfare. They want us to die.
 
2021-04-20 9:05:26 PM  
Eclectic:

Anything that helps trans people must be questioned as necessary at all. I know.

Jesus, lady, retract your claws.  All I said was that they weren't coming from the place you were suggesting they were and used my country's driver's license as an example of what they look like in Europe.
 
2021-04-20 9:08:56 PM  
i like the tag and i am high
 
2021-04-20 9:10:12 PM  

Murkanen: Eclectic:

Anything that helps trans people must be questioned as necessary at all. I know.

Jesus, lady, retract your claws.  All I said was that they weren't coming from the place you were suggesting they were and used my country's driver's license as an example of what they look like in Europe.


You understand, I am sure, how precarious trans rights are here in the US as well as the UK right now. So if trans people come across as hair-trigger angry, emotionally exhausted, etc. there might be a good reason for that.

Sorry I snapped at you, but also dog ass-tired of everything going on.
 
2021-04-20 9:10:50 PM  

Eclectic: ZAZ: Why not take the letter off entirely?  What purpose does it serve?

For trans people, having an ID that confirms they are who they say they are helps in tons of daily interactions like getting carded for beer or cashing a check. Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom" and traffic stops with shiatty cops.

Just as importantly, it is the government's recognition of their true selves. That's a mammoth mental health bonus.

"Lets get rid of gender on IDs", to me, feels like "let's get rid of state sponsored marriages" as a reaction to same-sex marriage being legalized. Throwing out an entire system because it now benefits "those people".

My 2 cents, YMMV


I see merit to both points.  This is going to be on a state by state basis because that's how we do ID.  Option B obviously sounds better, but in many states option A seems like it would be the more achievable goal.  Let's just admit that some states aren't going to pass any law that actually affirms a trans person's identity, any time in the next few years.  Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good marginally acceptable.
 
2021-04-20 9:12:31 PM  
Request pronouns, not gender identity (Trans Day of Visibility)
Youtube _qRz_l0LzCc


It's a good start
 
2021-04-20 9:17:40 PM  

austerity101: moothemagiccow: Eclectic: Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom"

yeah the X gender isn't gonna help with that

Maybe it's time we get rid of gender-specific bathrooms then. What bathrooms are non-binary or gender non-conforming people supposed to use?


Until NJ makes all bathrooms unisex, whichever one the person feels more comfortable using that won't cause problems.
 
2021-04-20 9:18:07 PM  

Eclectic: Murkanen: Eclectic: ZAZ: Why not take the letter off entirely?  What purpose does it serve?

For trans people, having an ID that confirms they are who they say they are helps in tons of daily interactions like getting carded for beer or cashing a check. Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom" and traffic stops with shiatty cops.

Just as importantly, it is the government's recognition of their true selves. That's a mammoth mental health bonus.

"Lets get rid of gender on IDs", to me, feels like "let's get rid of state sponsored marriages" as a reaction to same-sex marriage being legalized. Throwing out an entire system because it now benefits "those people".

My 2 cents, YMMV

I think he was more talking about the superfluous nature of marking gender on licenses, so while the comparison was valid I don't believe that was how they intended it to be taken.

This is a UK license, for example:

[Fark user image image 387x258]

Gender isn't on there.  Just name, date of birth, date of issue/expiration, and address.

Anything that helps trans people must be questioned as necessary at all. I know.

Never mind the 117 anti-trans laws proposed in 30 states this year. Here's one tiny win for non-binary people so "why do we even need gender on there".


Anything that helps trans people acts like a slap against Putin's anti-American propaganda.
Fark user imageView Full Size

There's 2 types of people that I can see.

People who percieve rainbow ice cream to be an edible dessert.

People who want to bring the Soviet Union back.

Vladimir Putin banned rainbow ice cream because it's "gay propaganda".

Joe Biden is a big fan of ice cream and his administration's Pentagon had good things to say on 3/31.

If having LGBTQAI neighbors is inherently anti-Putin, then I want all the LGBTQAI neighbors and I want them to feel safe and happy.

And Putin will say, "Just look at those awful Americans with their weird ice cream" and reasonable people will think he's nuts, and that's how the 2nd cold war can be ended: ice cream and trans rights!

Ice cream party against Putin!
 
2021-04-20 9:25:27 PM  
Eclectic:

You understand, I am sure, how precarious trans rights are here in the US as well as the UK right now.

Yes I do, and I'm on your side.  I even agreed that your comparison was a good one, just not applicable in their motivations.

What's happening to the trans community in the US, and to a lesser extent the UK is monstrous, but people are pushing back against the bigots.  The UK ruling against transgender treatment for teenagers was overruled last month (still requires parental consent, but no longer needs a judge's approval), so it's a war that will be won in time.
 
2021-04-20 9:30:05 PM  

Eclectic: Murkanen: Eclectic: ZAZ: Why not take the letter off entirely?  What purpose does it serve?

For trans people, having an ID that confirms they are who they say they are helps in tons of daily interactions like getting carded for beer or cashing a check. Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom" and traffic stops with shiatty cops.

Just as importantly, it is the government's recognition of their true selves. That's a mammoth mental health bonus.

"Lets get rid of gender on IDs", to me, feels like "let's get rid of state sponsored marriages" as a reaction to same-sex marriage being legalized. Throwing out an entire system because it now benefits "those people".

My 2 cents, YMMV

I think he was more talking about the superfluous nature of marking gender on licenses, so while the comparison was valid I don't believe that was how they intended it to be taken.

This is a UK license, for example:

[Fark user image image 387x258]

Gender isn't on there.  Just name, date of birth, date of issue/expiration, and address.

Anything that helps trans people must be questioned as necessary at all. I know.

Never mind the 117 anti-trans laws proposed in 30 states this year. Here's one tiny win for non-binary people so "why do we even need gender on there".


Not requesting a gender specification is anti trans?
If I was living in America I would like a Generation X driving license please, where it asks gender it should say GFY.
 
2021-04-20 9:32:04 PM  
As a gender neutral person, oh yes, I like this. More of this.
 
2021-04-20 9:33:07 PM  
WTG NJ, Subby!
 
2021-04-20 9:36:53 PM  
thehill.comView Full Size


Damn, The Flash has really let himself go
 
2021-04-20 9:37:49 PM  

talkertopc: Eclectic: ZAZ: Why not take the letter off entirely?  What purpose does it serve?

For trans people, having an ID that confirms they are who they say they are helps in tons of daily interactions like getting carded for beer or cashing a check. Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom" and traffic stops with shiatty cops.

Just as importantly, it is the government's recognition of their true selves. That's a mammoth mental health bonus.

"Lets get rid of gender on IDs", to me, feels like "let's get rid of state sponsored marriages" as a reaction to same-sex marriage being legalized. Throwing out an entire system because it now benefits "those people".

My 2 cents, YMMV

My first instinct was also to question the need for gender on an id card. I'm not sure I agree with you position but now I'm not sure I agree with my first instinct either. I think it's going to take me a while to figure it out.


I'm sure you meant well but, NO I'm not going to put my gender identity on hold while you 'figure it out.'

My gender and it's legal designation on a government ID is not superfluous.  That "F" on my license took a great deal of time, aggravation and money to be recognized.
 
2021-04-20 9:39:30 PM  

harleyquinnical: austerity101: moothemagiccow: Eclectic: Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom"

yeah the X gender isn't gonna help with that

Maybe it's time we get rid of gender-specific bathrooms then. What bathrooms are non-binary or gender non-conforming people supposed to use?

Until NJ makes all bathrooms unisex, whichever one the person feels more comfortable using that won't cause problems.


Of course. My question was rhetorically posed to moo to illustrate why the X isn't the problem--our insistence on a gender bindary is.
 
2021-04-20 9:41:03 PM  

aleister_greynight: Eclectic: ZAZ: Why not take the letter off entirely?  What purpose does it serve?

For trans people, having an ID that confirms they are who they say they are helps in tons of daily interactions like getting carded for beer or cashing a check. Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom" and traffic stops with shiatty cops.

Just as importantly, it is the government's recognition of their true selves. That's a mammoth mental health bonus.

"Lets get rid of gender on IDs", to me, feels like "let's get rid of state sponsored marriages" as a reaction to same-sex marriage being legalized. Throwing out an entire system because it now benefits "those people".

My 2 cents, YMMV

I see merit to both points.  This is going to be on a state by state basis because that's how we do ID.  Option B obviously sounds better, but in many states option A seems like it would be the more achievable goal.  Let's just admit that some states aren't going to pass any law that actually affirms a trans person's identity, any time in the next few years.  Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good marginally acceptable.


Can you explain how "States get to oppress trans people and we can't stop it" is "marginally acceptable"?

Which of your human rights do you find "marginally acceptable" to give up when you cross state lines?
 
2021-04-20 9:46:31 PM  
Everything old is new again.
I'm expecting an expansion of trans rights/human rights and protection of voting.

It happened before to fight the cold war, and it's needed again.
Fark user imageView Full Size

https://history.house.gov/Exhibitions​-​and-Publications/BAIC/Historical-Essay​s/Keeping-the-Faith/Postwar-Foreign-Po​licy-Civil-Rights/
 
2021-04-20 9:50:46 PM  

austerity101: NeverDrunk23: Eclectic: Any move even slightly *forward* for trans/non-binary people is a huge win right now, considering how half of the country seems to have determined that "backwards at light speed" is the thing to do.

They yearn to go back to that 1950s utopia that never existed.

Their aggressions toward the queer community are essentially genocide. They don't even want us just to be second-class citizens--they want to remove us from society completely, using conversion "therapy" or denying us surgeries and medications, tearing us away from supportive families, and giving us no way to access healthcare, housing, employment, or state benefits or welfare. They want us to die.


Yes. They do. When people are confronted with what they do not know or understand, they respond with either curiosity or fear. Conservatives are the people who respond with fear. They then seek to destroy that which frightens them. This aggression they call self-defence.
 
2021-04-20 10:06:03 PM  

Brandi Morgan: talkertopc: Eclectic: ZAZ: Why not take the letter off entirely?  What purpose does it serve?

For trans people, having an ID that confirms they are who they say they are helps in tons of daily interactions like getting carded for beer or cashing a check. Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom" and traffic stops with shiatty cops.

Just as importantly, it is the government's recognition of their true selves. That's a mammoth mental health bonus.

"Lets get rid of gender on IDs", to me, feels like "let's get rid of state sponsored marriages" as a reaction to same-sex marriage being legalized. Throwing out an entire system because it now benefits "those people".

My 2 cents, YMMV

My first instinct was also to question the need for gender on an id card. I'm not sure I agree with you position but now I'm not sure I agree with my first instinct either. I think it's going to take me a while to figure it out.

I'm sure you meant well but, NO I'm not going to put my gender identity on hold while you 'figure it out.'

My gender and it's legal designation on a government ID is not superfluous.  That "F" on my license took a great deal of time, aggravation and money to be recognized.


I do not want the world to pause  while I figure it out.
 
2021-04-20 10:20:02 PM  
So another thing for authorities to descriminate about.
 
2021-04-20 10:35:32 PM  

Eclectic: Murkanen: Eclectic: ZAZ: Why not take the letter off entirely?  What purpose does it serve?

For trans people, having an ID that confirms they are who they say they are helps in tons of daily interactions like getting carded for beer or cashing a check. Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom" and traffic stops with shiatty cops.

Just as importantly, it is the government's recognition of their true selves. That's a mammoth mental health bonus.

"Lets get rid of gender on IDs", to me, feels like "let's get rid of state sponsored marriages" as a reaction to same-sex marriage being legalized. Throwing out an entire system because it now benefits "those people".

My 2 cents, YMMV

I think he was more talking about the superfluous nature of marking gender on licenses, so while the comparison was valid I don't believe that was how they intended it to be taken.

This is a UK license, for example:

[Fark user image image 387x258]

Gender isn't on there.  Just name, date of birth, date of issue/expiration, and address.

Anything that helps trans people must be questioned as necessary at all. I know.

Never mind the 117 anti-trans laws proposed in 30 states this year. Here's one tiny win for non-binary people so "why do we even need gender on there".


It makes you a target for anyone in authority who sees you as a perverted monster and wants to punish you for it.

Like about half of my family.

Not me though.
 
2021-04-20 10:45:49 PM  

RedVentrue: So another thing for authorities to descriminate about.


I don't think refusing to acknowledge that NB/GNC people exist is a better option here, for the same reason DADT was a bad idea.
 
2021-04-20 11:12:54 PM  

Tax Boy: [thehill.com image 850x472]

Damn, The Flash has really let himself go


You know how it is, you get a bit older and your metabolism slows down. He just can't keep eating 20K calories a day like he used to.
 
2021-04-20 11:54:09 PM  

Eclectic: ZAZ: Why not take the letter off entirely?  What purpose does it serve?

For trans people, having an ID that confirms they are who they say they are helps in tons of daily interactions like getting carded for beer or cashing a check. Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom" and traffic stops with shiatty cops.

Just as importantly, it is the government's recognition of their true selves. That's a mammoth mental health bonus.

"Lets get rid of gender on IDs", to me, feels like "let's get rid of state sponsored marriages" as a reaction to same-sex marriage being legalized. Throwing out an entire system because it now benefits "those people".

My 2 cents, YMMV


FWIW, which is even less than your 2 cents, I have felt that the government should be out of the marriage business for over 40 years.  Set it up as a property and responsibility contract, let any consenting adults enter into it, and hand everyone the fun equally.  Religion and social recognition can be handled by your local priest and/or magus and/or witch.  Also, FWIW (not a bloody helluva lot), I have officiated at several same-sex marriages, as well as several alternate ones (the fetlife folks are REALLY creative), and never charged for it.  No one should charge for it.  Representing the divine in the world in any way and taking MONEY for it is disgusting.

All that said, the state should recognize ANY marriage between consenting adults as valid.  Period.
 
2021-04-21 12:45:41 AM  
Genderation X is the name of my Lilly Idol tribute band.
 
2021-04-21 4:04:59 AM  

austerity101: RedVentrue: So another thing for authorities to descriminate about.

I don't think refusing to acknowledge that NB/GNC people exist is a better option here, for the same reason DADT was a bad idea.


I see your point. All I'm saying is this is going to cause more pain, at least in the short term, than having to say nothing at all.
 
2021-04-21 4:53:10 AM  

ZAZ: Why not take the letter off entirely?  What purpose does it serve?


I can't walk around shirtless because of that F I got in sex, apparently.
 
2021-04-21 7:15:19 AM  

Eclectic: ZAZ: Why not take the letter off entirely?  What purpose does it serve?

For trans people, having an ID that confirms they are who they say they are helps in tons of daily interactions like getting carded for beer or cashing a check. Not to mention pushing back on the "you're in the wrong bathroom" and traffic stops with shiatty cops.

Just as importantly, it is the government's recognition of their true selves. That's a mammoth mental health bonus.

"Lets get rid of gender on IDs", to me, feels like "let's get rid of state sponsored marriages" as a reaction to same-sex marriage being legalized. Throwing out an entire system because it now benefits "those people".

My 2 cents, YMMV


The purpose of a gender on an ID is so the person verifying it can use that information to confirm that the person showing the ID is that person.

You can make an argument for removing it, but none exists for a "whatever" option.

If you think that removing an item from an ID card rather than simply rendering it useless is the same as removing a package of legal rights and protections from people, then there is something fundamentally wrong with you as a person.
 
2021-04-21 7:18:19 AM  

Murkanen: This is a UK license, for example:

[Fark user image image 387x258]

Gender isn't on there.  Just name, date of birth, date of issue/expiration, and address.


WTF is with the lack of textual labels?  It's not like they were hurting for space.
 
2021-04-21 8:07:37 AM  

Murkanen: talkertopc:

My first instinct was also to question the need for gender on an id card. I'm not sure I agree with you position but now I'm not sure I agree with my first instinct either. I think it's going to take me a while to figure it out.

They're both valid arguments.  Gender shouldn't be on ID cards because it's superfluous information.  Unfortunately, with how the US is treating transgender individuals, removing it isn't an option because it ensures that transgender individuals have official documentation to obstruct bigots.


I truly wish the only official documentation needed when dealing with bigots was a middle finger and a boisterous 'fark you'.

My oldest is non binary, it's taking me a bit to get things right, and I will say, her and she. I try to explain that for someone that doesn't know them, they will respond based on appearance. So for those people patience is needed. But got those that do know them and are right assholes, they can respond accordingly and I will handle the school for any issues.
 
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