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(Common Dreams)   Senate Democrats are thinking about decreasing their corporate tax hike from 28% to 25% to appease Joe Manchin, even though it's still below the pre-Trump rate   (commondreams.org) divider line
    More: Asinine, United States Senate, corporate tax rate, Barack Obama, Democratic Party, Joe Biden, Senate Democrats, United States, Sen. Joe Manchin  
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388 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Apr 2021 at 3:45 PM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-04-19 1:22:08 PM  
Change the laws on offshore profits requiring they be taxed in the US would go a long way on getting the effective tax rate on corporate profits to above 20%. Just using the amount of declared amounts for dividend payments as what is tax at 25% would do some real good.
 
2021-04-19 1:24:57 PM  
Let's keep on trying then.  Maybe introduce a tax bill every month.   He has to go on vacation eventually.
 
2021-04-19 1:26:09 PM  
Vote blue no matter who!
 
2021-04-19 1:34:36 PM  
He's going to be just like Lieberman (ID-Aetna) where no matter WHAT you do, he'll ask for more.  FARK HIM
 
2021-04-19 2:23:04 PM  
Just get something right now for f*ck sake. 25%? Fine. Sold! We have to move onto to other things. We always wind up wasting like 6 months on 1-2 things, the summer comes up, we recess, then it's next year and then we're worrying about elections again.

F*CKING DO SOMETHING!!!!!
 
2021-04-19 2:55:41 PM  
Ya'll at the 'burn it all down' phase yet?
 
2021-04-19 3:39:46 PM  
Yes, because if any state knows how to attract successful corporate entities its West Virginia...

Fark user image
 
2021-04-19 3:47:16 PM  
As long as they're isn't a commensurate decrease in bill funding, fine. We need things to happen right now. The tax rate is too low either way, so it's a matter of the rate sucking or sucking slightly more.
 
2021-04-19 3:47:29 PM  
*there isn't, dammit.
 
2021-04-19 3:47:50 PM  
I haven't wished for someone to slip on a bar of soap in the shower this hard in a long, long while.
 
2021-04-19 3:48:22 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: Ya'll at the 'burn it all down' phase yet?


We ever left that stage?
 
2021-04-19 3:48:49 PM  
Call the bluff.  Tell Manchin to either shiat or get off the pot.

He's welcome to go be a Republican where he can fight for getting to be considered "special" alongside the likes of Rand Paul and Susan Collins and Murkowski.  Go ahead Joe, jump in that pool.  Those farkers have been doing it for ten years now, they'll bloody your nose before you even get to your seat.

Get in line or get the fark out.
 
2021-04-19 3:48:51 PM  
If the rate is 25%, fine. But disappear all the loopholes, carve outs, and gimmicks that corporations use to hide their obscene profits.
 
2021-04-19 3:48:54 PM  

iaazathot: I haven't wished for someone to slip on a bar of soap in the shower this hard in a long, long while.


Now now, Snackbar isn't that bad.
 
2021-04-19 3:49:36 PM  
What the hell.  I doubt most are paying the current Trump rate. What they really need to do is impose a minimum tax rate and I'm not talking zero.
 
2021-04-19 3:51:18 PM  
get ride of the exceptions, you numb nuts
 
2021-04-19 3:52:03 PM  
Joe Manchin is a centrist like my butthole is radioactive.

okay maybe that isn't the greatest analogy.
 
2021-04-19 3:52:19 PM  
The actual number doesn't matter. What matters is the effective tax rate.
 
2021-04-19 3:52:34 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: Ya'll at the 'burn it all down' phase yet?


Nah, we're still stuck in the "Democrats are doing it, so it's all good" phase.
 
2021-04-19 3:52:44 PM  
azquotes.comView Full Size
 
2021-04-19 3:53:25 PM  
I feel like I need to apologize for Manchin because he's a rep for my state.

However, I also have to acknowledge that he has the unenviable task of being a Democratic senator of a Trumpy loving state.  So I am sure there is some balancing act he thinks he has to do even though it seems the people here vote on name recognition and not actual political stances.
 
2021-04-19 3:54:18 PM  

eurotrader: Change the laws on offshore profits requiring they be taxed in the US would go a long way on getting the effective tax rate on corporate profits to above 20%. Just using the amount of declared amounts for dividend payments as what is tax at 25% would do some real good.


Also, change it so that what corps can write off/use as deductions are things like:

- Percentage of employees that are full time
- Percentage of employees paid above minimum wage/market average for their field (the higher above, the greater the write-off)
- Number of new employees added
- Number of new facilities/locations opened in the US
- Amount of education reimbursement offered
- Costs of employee daycare provided
- Costs of employee wellness programs provided
- Amount of mandatory vacation time required of each employee
- Number of full time employees vs. part time.
- Amount of corporate profit returned to employees as bonuses

etc. etc.
 
2021-04-19 3:54:48 PM  
Abolish income taxes and replace them with consumption and wealth taxes. Specifically carbon and land value. Implement a dividend or UBI so that the consumption taxes are not regressive.
 
2021-04-19 3:55:32 PM  

hammettman: Joe Manchin is a centrist like my butthole is radioactive.

okay maybe that isn't the greatest analogy.


That's more likely thank you think: Scientists discover X-rays coming from Uranus
 
2021-04-19 3:55:35 PM  
I've heard it said by some pretty lefty people that high corporate tax rates are actually counterproductive.

What I do know is that high corporate tax rates basically lead to corporations sinking 100% of revenue into anything they can write off as business expenses, leading corporations to make decisions based on a quarterly timeframe to match their tax filing deadlines instead of longer-term planning that would lead to healthier businesses.
 
2021-04-19 3:55:47 PM  
Sure but a required earmark is sufficient spending to fully fund and staff the IRS.
 
2021-04-19 3:56:19 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Just get something right now for f*ck sake. 25%? Fine. Sold! We have to move onto to other things. We always wind up wasting like 6 months on 1-2 things, the summer comes up, we recess, then it's next year and then we're worrying about elections again.

F*CKING DO SOMETHING!!!!!


But blithering about and then not actually doing anything is the entire plan.

They spend so much time as to whether to restore five or eight of the FIFTEEN percent tax cut Trump and Mitch rammed through that in the end they do nothing and it stays at 20% while claiming the moral high ground because they wanted 8.
 
2021-04-19 3:56:47 PM  

andrewagill: I've heard it said by some pretty lefty people that high corporate tax rates are actually counterproductive.

What I do know is that high corporate tax rates basically lead to corporations sinking 100% of revenue into anything they can write off as business expenses, leading corporations to make decisions based on a quarterly timeframe to match their tax filing deadlines instead of longer-term planning that would lead to healthier businesses.


You sound well-infromed!
 
2021-04-19 3:59:27 PM  

andrewagill: What I do know is that high corporate tax rates basically lead to corporations sinking 100% of revenue into anything they can write off as business expenses, leading corporations to make decisions based on a quarterly timeframe to match their tax filing deadlines instead of longer-term planning that would lead to healthier businesses.


The quarterly earnings report already rules. Long-term investment isn't low because of taxes, it's because rent seekers demand profits RIGHT NOW.
 
2021-04-19 4:00:39 PM  

Summoner101: andrewagill: I've heard it said by some pretty lefty people that high corporate tax rates are actually counterproductive.

What I do know is that high corporate tax rates basically lead to corporations sinking 100% of revenue into anything they can write off as business expenses, leading corporations to make decisions based on a quarterly timeframe to match their tax filing deadlines instead of longer-term planning that would lead to healthier businesses.

You sound well-infromed!


that's nice dear
 
2021-04-19 4:01:11 PM  
To everyone who wants to run around with their hair on fire...

Half loaf politics.

Take the half loaf you get today.  Come back again to get the other half.  Because half a loaf is better than no bread at all, which is the real "other option".

/You can still dislike Manchin - he's being an ass for no particular reason.
 
2021-04-19 4:01:58 PM  

eurotrader: Change the laws on offshore profits requiring they be taxed in the US would go a long way on getting the effective tax rate on corporate profits to above 20%. Just using the amount of declared amounts for dividend payments as what is tax at 25% would do some real good.


They also need to change how tax breaks and credits work.  The only reason why so many corporations don't pay anywhere near the rate that they should be charged is that they have so many loopholes and write-offs that it takes their tax rates into the basement when they're done.

Get rid of preferential tax write-off and a lot of the things that take their rate from near the effective rate down to 0% and they'll actually be bringing in money like they did in the past, instead of handing out huge rebates every year to multi-national corporations.
 
2021-04-19 4:02:54 PM  
It's not like it's going to pass anyway. Filibuster is still a thing, and Manchin and Sinema have made their position on only allowing Republicans to govern clear.
 
2021-04-19 4:03:41 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Vote blue no matter who!


I know, right? This guy was soooo much more liberal. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patri​c​k_Morrisey
 
2021-04-19 4:03:50 PM  
I don't envy his position. He's the only dem that could win a general election in WV.

If some of the loopholes are closed, 25% could do the trick, for a bit, anyway.

/but I'm a dreamer - I voted for Swearingin in the primaries
 
2021-04-19 4:03:55 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Vote blue no matter who!


I don't live in WV. Are you speaking to all the WV democrats that hang around the politics tab?

Me, I'll be voting for Ron Johnson's opponent in November 2022. And, yeah, that's going to be a Dem, because in my judgement voting 3rd party in *that* election to prove how pure I am or to "send a message" would be stupid.
 
2021-04-19 4:04:02 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: andrewagill: What I do know is that high corporate tax rates basically lead to corporations sinking 100% of revenue into anything they can write off as business expenses, leading corporations to make decisions based on a quarterly timeframe to match their tax filing deadlines instead of longer-term planning that would lead to healthier businesses.

The quarterly earnings report already rules. Long-term investment isn't low because of taxes, it's because rent seekers demand profits RIGHT NOW.


This is fair. The quarterly earnings report has too much power & anything that gives it more power is doing the wrong thing.
 
2021-04-19 4:06:21 PM  

anjin-san: Abolish income taxes and replace them with consumption and wealth taxes. Specifically carbon and land value. Implement a dividend or UBI so that the consumption taxes are not regressive.


problem with "land value" as a tax is that it's woefully subjective based on the whims of the real estate market.

For example, in much of the Bay Area, you can't touch a run down 2BR/1BA house on a postage stamp for less than 2 Mil. Meanwhile, you can get a freaking monster mansion elsewhere for less than $500k.

This also doesn't address the "Regressive tax" issues the way you think it does because there are plenty of people who own homes in more expensive areas by virtue of having either bought well before the real estate boom in their area, or having inherited.  So, you might have someone who's lived in the CA Bay Area that bought their house back when prices in their area were 'reasonable', only to have their property value skyrocket because of the Tech boom, etc.  So while they may have only paid, say, $450k for the house originally, the value boom's blasting that value up to over a million (or more) suddenly means they're going to be paying a crapload more with your "land value" tax.

And as far as consumption taxes...consumption of what? Electricity? Gasoline? Food?

You'd be better off with a federal VAT or luxury tax that hits things like yachts and luxury cars and other non-essentials.

Finally, you'd be way better off to tax capital gains as income.
 
2021-04-19 4:06:22 PM  
Let me know when they start talking about taxing the capital gains of the 1% at the same rate as someone who actually works for a living.
 
2021-04-19 4:06:34 PM  

Kit Fister: Also, change it so that what corps can write off/use as deductions are things like:

- Percentage of employees that are full time
- Percentage of employees paid above minimum wage/market average for their field (the higher above, the greater the write-off)
- Number of new employees added
- Number of new facilities/locations opened in the US
- Amount of education reimbursement offered
- Costs of employee daycare provided
- Costs of employee wellness programs provided

- Amount of mandatory vacation time required of each employee
- Number of full time employees vs. part time.
- Amount of corporate profit returned to employees as bonuses

etc. etc.


And don't count such non-cash benefits as "income" for the employees, either. We know they're wanting to do that.  That money will eventually make it to other folks, so be patient, and don't burden people who require support.
 
2021-04-19 4:06:39 PM  
Apparently this is how bipartisanship happens  -- the two sides of the rational party work it put while ignoring the radical right wing party wherever possible.
 
2021-04-19 4:07:59 PM  
IF it is either that or nothing then you have to do that.. but you have to not stop trying, and not forget who did what.
 
2021-04-19 4:08:24 PM  

MadHatter500: To everyone who wants to run around with their hair on fire...

Half loaf politics.

Take the half loaf you get today.  Come back again to get the other half.  Because half a loaf is better than no bread at all, which is the real "other option".

/You can still dislike Manchin - he's being an ass for no particular reason.


It was 35% pre-Trump. Biden proposed 28%, not even to what it was under Obama. This isn't half a loaf of anything other than a "pinch a loaf," if you follow.

The push for Biden was because he would take us back to pre-Trump, at the least. Now we're seeing that that was a load of BS and that the corporate tax cuts truly were bipartisan.
 
2021-04-19 4:08:53 PM  

a_room_with_a_moose: I don't envy his position. He's the only dem that could win a general election in WV.

If some of the loopholes are closed, 25% could do the trick, for a bit, anyway.

/but I'm a dreamer - I voted for Swearingin in the primaries


fark apologizing for him - he could just about single handedly make it possible for Democrats to be more competitive in races across the country - you know by doing things that are popular and good - and instead he's put the Democrat agenda into the ground by defending a rule that makes sure only Republicans govern.
 
2021-04-19 4:09:42 PM  

andrewagill: Summoner101: andrewagill: I've heard it said by some pretty lefty people that high corporate tax rates are actually counterproductive.

What I do know is that high corporate tax rates basically lead to corporations sinking 100% of revenue into anything they can write off as business expenses, leading corporations to make decisions based on a quarterly timeframe to match their tax filing deadlines instead of longer-term planning that would lead to healthier businesses.

You sound well-infromed!

that's nice dear


Bless your heart.
 
2021-04-19 4:09:54 PM  
Jesus, this is so stupid. Everyone knows you get more tax money if you tax businesses less.
 
2021-04-19 4:10:16 PM  

AdmirableSnackbar: MadHatter500: To everyone who wants to run around with their hair on fire...

Half loaf politics.

Take the half loaf you get today.  Come back again to get the other half.  Because half a loaf is better than no bread at all, which is the real "other option".

/You can still dislike Manchin - he's being an ass for no particular reason.

It was 35% pre-Trump. Biden proposed 28%, not even to what it was under Obama. This isn't half a loaf of anything other than a "pinch a loaf," if you follow.

The push for Biden was because he would take us back to pre-Trump, at the least. Now we're seeing that that was a load of BS and that the corporate tax cuts truly were bipartisan.


I guess you should have voted for Trump then.
 
2021-04-19 4:11:30 PM  
Can't we just send more infrastructure  spending specifically to West Virginia and/or projects that specifically help Manchins donors as a compromise rather than compromising on the size of the tax height?
 
2021-04-19 4:14:33 PM  

andrewagill: I've heard it said by some pretty lefty people that high corporate tax rates are actually counterproductive.

What I do know is that high corporate tax rates basically lead to corporations sinking 100% of revenue into anything they can write off as business expenses, leading corporations to make decisions based on a quarterly timeframe to match their tax filing deadlines instead of longer-term planning that would lead to healthier businesses.


The issue isn't the tax rate per se, it's the tax rate and not using that as the stick, while making the things they can write off things that benefit the little guys (the carrot).

I listed some ideas before, but think about it: Corporation can eat a 35% tax rate, or they can deduct shiat like number and frequency of raises given to employees (sliding scale such that raises given to the lowest paid were a bigger write-off than those given to the highest paid, all sources of income inclusive), how many jobs they created, how many full time employees they had and the ratio of FTEs to contractors in each department, etc.

Therefore, the better they treat their employees, the more money they save in taxes. And, of course, happier, better-treated employees are more productive, making the company more money, and around it goes.
 
2021-04-19 4:15:41 PM  

superstevo: get ride of the exceptions, you numb nuts


It doesn't matter what the damn rate is on paper if there are exceptions you could drive the Ever Given through sideways.

Which was the situation for personal taxes when the paper rate was 91% for 250K+ also.
 
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