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(Twitter)   American police gear up in armor and weapons and stand menacingly outside church harboring victims of police violence. Subby has nothing witty or clever, just bitter sorrow and horror   (twitter.com) divider line
    More: Sick, shot  
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7056 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 19 Apr 2021 at 2:20 AM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-04-19 12:40:14 AM  
Original Tweet:

 
2021-04-19 1:06:32 AM  
Can't wait to hear the cop suckers here defend this one.

ACAB.  All Cops Are Bad.
 
2021-04-19 1:10:59 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-19 1:56:53 AM  
Ready to kick baby Jesus' ass!

Cops should not be trained like they are in the military.  It's why they are so horrible at being cops.  You see in the military, you are ready to kill everyone that's not your fellow serviceman.  Shockingly, you're not supposed to do that as cops.

Personally, I think all cops should be systematically fired and only rehired after carefully checked they ain't creepy gang members trying to be cops.  (Oaf Keepers, Proud Boys, KKK, etc.)  Any found guilty (of trying to become cops) should then do 6 months to a year in prison.   This would cut way down on police violence.

Oh, and disband all the police unions and put them through a similar vetting process.
 
2021-04-19 2:13:59 AM  
Why is anyone surprised?  Nothing has changed since last spring and summer, if anything the cops have been working hard over the winter to get ready for this.  The cops are not going to get federal support for their racist shiat, so they are going to dial it up to 11, and figure that if they go all in there will be nothing to be done to stop them.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-19 2:25:42 AM  
A perspective from Australia where we have some bad cops, but mostly in proportion to tge fact we have some bad people like most societies.

Perhaps you should think about whether you might not have a police problem, more an America problem.
 
2021-04-19 2:26:21 AM  

PaulRB: Cops should not be trained like they are in the military.  It's why they are so horrible at being cops.  You see in the military, you are ready to kill everyone that's not your fellow serviceman.  Shockingly, you're not supposed to do that as cops.


Soldiers also have rules that cops don't have.
 
2021-04-19 2:30:03 AM  

Alphax: PaulRB: Cops should not be trained like they are in the military.  It's why they are so horrible at being cops.  You see in the military, you are ready to kill everyone that's not your fellow serviceman.  Shockingly, you're not supposed to do that as cops.

Soldiers also have rules that cops don't have.


Just hold the cops to the Military rules, as has been suggested here before.  If they want to act like soldiers, let them take on the burden of a soldier's responsibility.

... And disband the unions, they aren't helping.
 
2021-04-19 2:30:18 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


By 1945 the Germans had lost but by 2020 the Nazis had won.

 
2021-04-19 2:31:19 AM  

NephilimNexus: [Fark user image image 714x302]

By 1945 the Germans had lost but by 2020 the Nazis had won.


"if your only tool is a hammer..."
 
2021-04-19 2:31:26 AM  

Alphax: PaulRB: Cops should not be trained like they are in the military.  It's why they are so horrible at being cops.  You see in the military, you are ready to kill everyone that's not your fellow serviceman.  Shockingly, you're not supposed to do that as cops.

Soldiers also have rules that cops don't have.


And among those rules is something to the effect of "Thou shalt try really hard not to fire upon your countrymen without provocation" and "It's generally considered impolite to shoot someone after they have laid down their weapons and raised their hands in surrender."
 
2021-04-19 2:32:51 AM  

unixpro: Can't wait to hear the cop suckers here defend this one.

ACAB.  All Cops Are Bad.


I've just popped a 2 gallon pot's worth. I'll let you share if you bring the butter!

I actually want to know what the thought was behind the order to surround the church. That's going to give the most entertainment, I feel, followed by the explains for arresting the medical volunteers, then the assaults on the authorised, police-approved, and clearly identified journalists.

I might even have a couple of beers this thread.
 
2021-04-19 2:37:14 AM  

King Something: Alphax: PaulRB: Cops should not be trained like they are in the military.  It's why they are so horrible at being cops.  You see in the military, you are ready to kill everyone that's not your fellow serviceman.  Shockingly, you're not supposed to do that as cops.

Soldiers also have rules that cops don't have.

And among those rules is something to the effect of "Thou shalt try really hard not to fire upon your countrymen without provocation" and "It's generally considered impolite to shoot someone after they have laid down their weapons and raised their hands in surrender."


I remember seeing a pretty long list of Geneva Conventions that US cops violate against their own people regularly, but I can't find it now.
 
2021-04-19 2:40:34 AM  
Looks like a scene from some dystopian sci-fi movie.
 
2021-04-19 2:42:21 AM  
When people start killing them off, they are going to wonder why.
 
2021-04-19 2:42:25 AM  
Try watching the first Rambo movie and see if the sheriff character would fit in the police departments of today.
 
2021-04-19 2:44:28 AM  
Somebody pulled a drive-by on the National Guard earlier today Minneapolis:
Fark user imageView Full Size

This is only going to get worse as the trial goes on, and we all know it is way too likely that he'll walk; I can't imagine what the city will be like if that comes to pass.
 
2021-04-19 2:44:49 AM  

untoldforce: Try watching the first Rambo movie and see if the sheriff character would fit in the police departments of today.


Brian would have to be a zombie so call me, maybe ?
 
2021-04-19 2:46:10 AM  

Alphax: PaulRB: Cops should not be trained like they are in the military.  It's why they are so horrible at being cops.  You see in the military, you are ready to kill everyone that's not your fellow serviceman.  Shockingly, you're not supposed to do that as cops.

Soldiers also have rules that cops don't have.


San Antonio Texas police used to higher military preferentially.
And none of them ever abused me.
And I was a handful
 
2021-04-19 2:46:57 AM  

starsrift: Looks like a scene from some dystopian sci-fi movie.


The Watchmen HBO series wasn't supposed to be a how-to guide, yet here we are. I'm seriously waiting for someone in a Rorschach mask to be running around offing people before the month ends.
 
2021-04-19 2:47:02 AM  

uttertosh: unixpro: Can't wait to hear the cop suckers here defend this one.

ACAB.  All Cops Are Bad.

I've just popped a 2 gallon pot's worth. I'll let you share if you bring the butter!

I actually want to know what the thought was behind the order to surround the church. That's going to give the most entertainment, I feel, followed by the explains for arresting the medical volunteers, then the assaults on the authorised, police-approved, and clearly identified journalists.

I might even have a couple of beers this thread.


This kind of thing is just going to keep happening over and over until something snaps. Police officers who are doing this may think they're supporting each other, but in reality they're just hastening the end of policing as we know it today.
 
2021-04-19 2:47:41 AM  
Aunt Maxine ain't helping either.

"Give us the guilty verdict we demand or we'll burn it down!"

She's instigating riots, just as Trump was accused of doing.  But she'll get a racial pass on things.
 
2021-04-19 2:49:44 AM  

piltdown: Aunt Maxine ain't helping either.

"Give us the guilty verdict we demand or we'll burn it down!"

She's instigating riots, just as Trump was accused of doing.  But she'll get a racial pass on things.


He is guilty.  She's not the instigator.
 
2021-04-19 2:50:39 AM  

piltdown: Aunt Maxine ain't helping either.

"Give us the guilty verdict we demand or we'll burn it down!"

She's instigating riots, just as Trump was accused of doing.  But she'll get a racial pass on things.


One quote?  By a non-President?

Your racism is showing.
 
2021-04-19 2:53:29 AM  

khatores: uttertosh: unixpro: Can't wait to hear the cop suckers here defend this one.

ACAB.  All Cops Are Bad.

I've just popped a 2 gallon pot's worth. I'll let you share if you bring the butter!

I actually want to know what the thought was behind the order to surround the church. That's going to give the most entertainment, I feel, followed by the explains for arresting the medical volunteers, then the assaults on the authorised, police-approved, and clearly identified journalists.

I might even have a couple of beers this thread.

This kind of thing is just going to keep happening over and over until something snaps. Police officers who are doing this may think they're supporting each other, but in reality they're just hastening the end of policing as we know it today.


Fingers crossed, huh?
 
2021-04-19 2:54:03 AM  

Alphax: King Something: Alphax: PaulRB: Cops should not be trained like they are in the military.  It's why they are so horrible at being cops.  You see in the military, you are ready to kill everyone that's not your fellow serviceman.  Shockingly, you're not supposed to do that as cops.

Soldiers also have rules that cops don't have.

And among those rules is something to the effect of "Thou shalt try really hard not to fire upon your countrymen without provocation" and "It's generally considered impolite to shoot someone after they have laid down their weapons and raised their hands in surrender."

I remember seeing a pretty long list of Geneva Conventions that US cops violate against their own people regularly, but I can't find it now.


Just for starters, they use chemical weapons. I think that gassing people with anything is banned. They will continue to get away with it for 2 reasons:

- The Geneva conventions cover war and , officially, there isn't one in the US. YMMV
- Even if it was enforceable, successive US administrations have proved themselves remarkably recalcitrant regarding international treaties of any stripe, and reluctant to act at home for fear of being labelled "unamerican"
 
2021-04-19 2:54:17 AM  

4th Horseman: Somebody pulled a drive-by on the National Guard earlier today Minneapolis:
[Fark user image image 764x432]
This is only going to get worse as the trial goes on, and we all know it is way too likely that he'll walk; I can't imagine what the city will be like if that comes to pass.


Jury will be starting deliberations as early as tomorrow (or today now). See you all here soon.
 
2021-04-19 2:56:19 AM  

uttertosh: I actually want to know what the thought was behind the order to surround the church.


Well, even though Fark is pretty bad at anything other than rabid groupthink, I'll give it a go.

For argument's sake, let's suppose there's a good intention behind the activity.  We know that protests went straight to fiery riots last year in that neck of the woods, so a heavy presence could start as an effort to discourage that. (yes, we all know much of the violence was plants. Shut up.)

Police brass generally have access to better information than Twitter - FBI, DHS, CBP all can feed information to relevant police agencies.  So if there's credible information that the church is a target, then you'd want to protect it.  If the source were confidential, then the information might be kept close; so much so those of us on the outside might not see a reason at all.

Police also work with fire departments. Big ornate wooden buildings are highly susceptible to flame, and even if there were no otherwise operational info about it, an abundance of caution could also make someone create a perimeter.

It's also possible that the church is seen as a probable source of illegal activity.  It's not like we haven't seen that played out over and over in the GWOT - militants mixing with civilians in public, taking advantage of the rules of war to shelter in religious buildings that militaries aren't allowed to attack.  The national rhetoric is one of an occupation and a resistance; acting like the logical resultant considerations aren't valid is a bad faith double standard.

Being armed is a(n unfortunate) part of the job description, so acting like police showing up in armor and with weapons is new is disingenuous at best.  There's a well-known saying that the military trains to fight yesterday's war.  The corollary then is that the police train to catch yesterday's lawbreakers.  This could well all just be "what we currently think we should have done last year to mitigate the damage."  Assuming, for the sake of argument, that there's a good intention behind it all.  Yes, we all know Fark doesn't think so.  Shut up.
 
2021-04-19 2:56:36 AM  
Church harboring people injured by police violence at protest against police violence

Fark user imageView Full Size


White people storming the Capitol to overthrow an election and hang the Vice President

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-19 2:57:50 AM  

Uranus: Alphax: King Something: Alphax: PaulRB: Cops should not be trained like they are in the military.  It's why they are so horrible at being cops.  You see in the military, you are ready to kill everyone that's not your fellow serviceman.  Shockingly, you're not supposed to do that as cops.

Soldiers also have rules that cops don't have.

And among those rules is something to the effect of "Thou shalt try really hard not to fire upon your countrymen without provocation" and "It's generally considered impolite to shoot someone after they have laid down their weapons and raised their hands in surrender."

I remember seeing a pretty long list of Geneva Conventions that US cops violate against their own people regularly, but I can't find it now.

Just for starters, they use chemical weapons. I think that gassing people with anything is banned. They will continue to get away with it for 2 reasons:

- The Geneva conventions cover war and , officially, there isn't one in the US. YMMV
- Even if it was enforceable, successive US administrations have proved themselves remarkably recalcitrant regarding international treaties of any stripe, and reluctant to act at home for fear of being labelled "unamerican"


I think it also mentioned false surrender, and treatment of prisoners.
 
2021-04-19 3:00:23 AM  

untoldforce: Try watching the first Rambo movie and see if the sheriff character would fit in the police departments of today.


Or re-imagine First Blood if the character of John Rambo was an African American Vietnam vet. The novel the fictional Rambo is based on was written in 1972, after a decade of police brutality directed at anti-war protestors in the cities, and police repression of minorities in the rural areas. There was an actual soldier named John Rambo who died in Vietnam. His name is on the Vietnam War Memorial.

cdn.vox-cdn.comView Full Size
Chicago 1968
 
2021-04-19 3:03:37 AM  
Seems like now would be handy time to rob a bank or two, the police seem preoccupied

/not advocating robbing a bank, just an observation
 
2021-04-19 3:04:21 AM  
Unmentioned in that tweet is the police are also attacking medics.

Attacking press is bad. Attacking medics is worse.
 
2021-04-19 3:09:52 AM  

unixpro: Can't wait to hear the cop suckers here defend this one.

ACAB.  All Cops Are Bad.


Only Siths deal in absolutes?
 
2021-04-19 3:10:49 AM  

Gruntbuggly: ... And disband the unions, they aren't helping.


No problem with unions. But make all civil servants part of a common state union. Teachers. Cops. Firefighters. Whatever.

Same rules for all. It will be a more powerful advocating agency. But more balanced.
 
2021-04-19 3:16:09 AM  

grumpfuff: Unmentioned in that tweet is the police are also attacking medics.

Attacking press is bad. Attacking medics is worse.


It's in the twitter thread linked in the Tweet of TFA. They're actually cuffing the medics!!
 
2021-04-19 3:20:09 AM  

PaulRB: You see in the military, you are ready to kill everyone that's not your fellow serviceman.


No you're not. What?
Who the hell told you that?

In the military you get trained to do the mission, whatever that mission is, while keeping yourself and your peers safe. Not "kill everyone who is not you".

We've also gotten trained quite a bit in de-escalation techniques, first aid, and the legal limits of our actions. US Cops don't seem to get any of those things.
 
2021-04-19 3:20:23 AM  

SometimesItsTuesday: uttertosh: I actually want to know what the thought was behind the order to surround the church.

Well, even though Fark is pretty bad at anything other than rabid groupthink, I'll give it a go.

For argument's sake, let's suppose there's a good intention behind the activity.  We know that protests went straight to fiery riots last year in that neck of the woods, so a heavy presence could start as an effort to discourage that. (yes, we all know much of the violence was plants. Shut up.)

Police brass generally have access to better information than Twitter - FBI, DHS, CBP all can feed information to relevant police agencies.  So if there's credible information that the church is a target, then you'd want to protect it.  If the source were confidential, then the information might be kept close; so much so those of us on the outside might not see a reason at all.

Police also work with fire departments. Big ornate wooden buildings are highly susceptible to flame, and even if there were no otherwise operational info about it, an abundance of caution could also make someone create a perimeter.

It's also possible that the church is seen as a probable source of illegal activity.  It's not like we haven't seen that played out over and over in the GWOT - militants mixing with civilians in public, taking advantage of the rules of war to shelter in religious buildings that militaries aren't allowed to attack.  The national rhetoric is one of an occupation and a resistance; acting like the logical resultant considerations aren't valid is a bad faith double standard.

Being armed is a(n unfortunate) part of the job description, so acting like police showing up in armor and with weapons is new is disingenuous at best.  There's a well-known saying that the military trains to fight yesterday's war.  The corollary then is that the police train to catch yesterday's lawbreakers.  This could well all just be "what we currently think we should have done last year to mitigate the damage."  Assuming, for the sake of argument, that there's a good intention behind it all.  Yes, we all know Fark doesn't think so.  Shut up.


Drinking a nice hot cup of it as we speak, sir!
 
2021-04-19 3:21:06 AM  

ReaverZ: unixpro: Can't wait to hear the cop suckers here defend this one.

ACAB.  All Cops Are Bad.

Only Siths deal in absolutes?


the thing about ACAB is it's not about the moral character of individual people in the police.

It's about the *institution*, and how it does not allow good cops to remain cops, or good. Either they attempt to interfere/whistleblow on their fellow cops--at which point they're, at best, drummed out/fired/pushed to resign---at which point they're no longer cops---

Or they look the other way, at which point they're no longer good.
 
2021-04-19 3:22:54 AM  
Just a reminder that the Federal government under Trump literally invaded an episcopal church, gassed people seeking shelter beside and inside it, and then took a photo op while holding the staff at gunpoint.
 
2021-04-19 3:25:54 AM  

SometimesItsTuesday: Well, even though Fark is pretty bad at anything other than rabid groupthink, I'll give it a go.


I rolled my eyes so hard it activated my chakra, opened my third eye and telekinetically hit the ignore button.
 
2021-04-19 3:26:36 AM  

uttertosh: khatores: uttertosh: unixpro: Can't wait to hear the cop suckers here defend this one.

ACAB.  All Cops Are Bad.

I've just popped a 2 gallon pot's worth. I'll let you share if you bring the butter!

I actually want to know what the thought was behind the order to surround the church. That's going to give the most entertainment, I feel, followed by the explains for arresting the medical volunteers, then the assaults on the authorised, police-approved, and clearly identified journalists.

I might even have a couple of beers this thread.

This kind of thing is just going to keep happening over and over until something snaps. Police officers who are doing this may think they're supporting each other, but in reality they're just hastening the end of policing as we know it today.

Fingers crossed, huh?


Every time they pull some shiat like this, they're cutting into their support base. Pepper spray a soldier in uniform and then defend the action...handcuff medics...beat up people left and right, etc. They're steadily alienating the people who pay them.

I've never had a problem with the cops except a few snide remarks and some questionable driving. I generally let that stuff slide although I did report a couple of incidents of driving issues. I realize that most cops only have a high school education and a brief stint at the police academy, so you're often getting a fairly basic type of person.

It would be helpful for society if we could have people helping to enforce the laws in a professional, fair and safe manner.
 
2021-04-19 3:36:50 AM  

wickedragon: PaulRB: You see in the military, you are ready to kill everyone that's not your fellow serviceman.

No you're not. What?
Who the hell told you that?

In the military you get trained to do the mission, whatever that mission is, while keeping yourself and your peers safe. Not "kill everyone who is not you".

We've also gotten trained quite a bit in de-escalation techniques, first aid, and the legal limits of our actions. US Cops don't seem to get any of those things.


Somehow this information didn't get to Chris Kyle, the guards at Abu Ghraib, or hell even My Lia
 
2021-04-19 3:43:54 AM  

TorpedoOrca: Church harboring people injured by police violence at protest against police violence

[Fark user image 425x282]

White people storming the Capitol to overthrow an election and hang the Vice President

[Fark user image 425x648]


And that same Capitol during Black Lives Matter protests last year:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-19 3:45:14 AM  

Alphax: piltdown: Aunt Maxine ain't helping either.

"Give us the guilty verdict we demand or we'll burn it down!"

She's instigating riots, just as Trump was accused of doing.  But she'll get a racial pass on things.

He is guilty.  She's not the instigator.


mrspeacock: piltdown: Aunt Maxine ain't helping either.

"Give us the guilty verdict we demand or we'll burn it down!"

She's instigating riots, just as Trump was accused of doing.  But she'll get a racial pass on things.

One quote?  By a non-President?

Your racism is showing.


**I don't get much news out here. The googles has failed me. I would like to see the quote with some context. **

Worth considering, without the addendum of politics, emotion, race, and the specifics of the case:

- Demanding an outcome from any trial is always wrong (unless you're the prosecutor or defense attorney - then it's your job). No matter what "what-iffery" anyone embroiders around the edges.

- making a threat based on not achieving an outcome one desires, well, I don't know about the US, but where I've lived that, too, is a crime.

Exchange a member of the house for member of the proud boys, or even Tucker Carlson, insert the same words, note the impact. How happy are we now?

As a public figure one has a duty to weigh one's words very carefully. Where you lead, others will follow.
 
2021-04-19 3:47:23 AM  
Society had a crime problem. It hired cops to attack crime. Now society has a cop problem.

          --
Tom Robbins, Still Life With Woodpecker
 
2021-04-19 3:49:22 AM  

haknudsen: wickedragon: PaulRB: You see in the military, you are ready to kill everyone that's not your fellow serviceman.

No you're not. What?
Who the hell told you that?

In the military you get trained to do the mission, whatever that mission is, while keeping yourself and your peers safe. Not "kill everyone who is not you".

We've also gotten trained quite a bit in de-escalation techniques, first aid, and the legal limits of our actions. US Cops don't seem to get any of those things.

Somehow this information didn't get to Chris Kyle, the guards at Abu Ghraib, or hell even My Lia


Those are perfect examples of why you are wrong.

Kyle was a sniper. Snipers have special orders, which is to kill anyone who is not their unit. Snipers are not normal soldiers, and they aren't expected to behave like them.

The guards at Abu Ghraib were a) not combat soldiers, and b) suffering from a command structure breakdown, which left them in a strange predicament wherein their normal orders ("treat POWs with consideration") had been overridden by the CIA's orders to "soften them up a little."

My Lai is why the military has new orders. The search-and-destroy missions in force during that period of Vietnam are generally now considered to be, at best, wildly counterproductive, and they're not used anymore. Additionally, Task Force Barker was also suffering from a command structure breakdown, and Lt. Calley should not have been the lead officer, but command had defaulted to him.

Now, all that said, COPS get at best eight hours of de-escalation training and it's not favorably viewed by macho, manly cops; and the legal limits of use of force are viewed as things to be gotten around, not limits to be respected.

Police and military really should not be alike at all, and that's the crux of the problem.
 
2021-04-19 3:51:14 AM  

Felgraf: ReaverZ: unixpro: Can't wait to hear the cop suckers here defend this one.

ACAB.  All Cops Are Bad.

Only Siths deal in absolutes?

the thing about ACAB is it's not about the moral character of individual people in the police.

It's about the *institution*, and how it does not allow good cops to remain cops, or good. Either they attempt to interfere/whistleblow on their fellow cops--at which point they're, at best, drummed out/fired/pushed to resign---at which point they're no longer cops---

Or they look the other way, at which point they're no longer good.


Or they nearly get murdered by their fellow cops, at which point they're Frank Serpico.
 
2021-04-19 3:54:14 AM  
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2021-04-19 3:58:28 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Police and military really should not be alike at all, and that's the crux of the problem.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
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