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(The New York Times)   "After Green Rush, Canada's Legal Pot Suppliers Are Stumbling," proving once again that you shouldn't get high off your own supply   (nytimes.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Cannabis, Legality of cannabis by country, Canada, Hashish, Law, Canada's next big growth industry, Global Marijuana March, marijuana producer  
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407 clicks; posted to Business » on 18 Apr 2021 at 9:30 AM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-04-18 8:49:20 AM  
 
2021-04-18 9:55:26 AM  
The biggest problem with legal weed in Oregon - it's way too easy to grow, so there's a huge surplus.  Legalization did increase adult usage, but just a few percent, much less than the proponents thought would happen.
 
2021-04-18 9:59:48 AM  
Pot company valuations in the leadup to legalization assumed everybody and their brother would be getting high.  reality had to sink in sooner or later.
 
2021-04-18 10:02:31 AM  
I hate the corporatization of weed. I'm not gonna cry if asshole business people are cashing out with a loss. Good, as far as I'm concerned.
 
2021-04-18 10:03:36 AM  
Piss poor quality. Check. Insanely over priced. Check. Offensively over packaged. Check.

I have no idea why they're struggling.....
 
2021-04-18 10:04:14 AM  

natazha: The biggest problem with legal weed in Oregon - it's way too easy to grow, so there's a huge surplus.  Legalization did increase adult usage, but just a few percent, much less than the proponents thought would happen.


Oregon is my favorite weed state, by far. So cheap, so good. Colorado is #2.

Illinois can eat a bag of overpriced dicks. I refuse to drive there and buy their overpriced corporate weed. It's like going to the DMV to get weed. I want to see and smell product before I buy it.
 
2021-04-18 10:18:17 AM  

JasonOfOrillia: Pot company valuations in the leadup to legalization assumed everybody and their brother would be getting high.  reality had to sink in sooner or later.


This is bad news for Cannabevets.  It was convinced that legalization means everyone must immediately turn into stoners.
 
2021-04-18 10:43:20 AM  

knobmaker: JasonOfOrillia: Pot company valuations in the leadup to legalization assumed everybody and their brother would be getting high.  reality had to sink in sooner or later.

This is bad news for Cannabevets.  It was convinced that legalization means everyone must immediately turn into stoners.


Yeah, if someone wants to smoke weed, I guess more power to them.  You do your thing and I'll um... not do it.
 
2021-04-18 10:46:19 AM  
After legalisation, there were a bunch of job postings for companies looking for chemists to explore extractions and scaleup production of cannabis pharmaceuticals.  It was obvious from the postings that those companies had no idea what they were doing, and the recruiting firms they hired had even less.

Those postings dried up in a hurry, and I wouldn't be surprised if a significant chunk of those companies have gone under.  Never did get an interview with any of them, and that's probably for the best.
 
2021-04-18 10:56:09 AM  
FTFA:  "Everyone thought that in Canada the industry was going to move further, faster, and that hasn't happened," said Brendan Kennedy, the chief executive of Tilray, a major grower based in Nanaimo, British Columbia, that lost $272 million last year. "One of the challenges around competing with the illicit market is that the regulations are so stringent."

Oh, tough sh*t.  Lower your prices if you want to compete, rass clot.

knobmaker: JasonOfOrillia: Pot company valuations in the leadup to legalization assumed everybody and their brother would be getting high.  reality had to sink in sooner or later.

This is bad news for Cannabevets.  It was convinced that legalization means everyone must immediately turn into stoners.


If the reference is to me, I've never said that or anything like it, not even once.  The only prediction about legal weed that I've ever made was that illegal producers and sellers would continue to stay in the weed business.  And they're doing so quite successfully, thanks, that is if we take the word of the distributor whom I just quoted.

b0rscht: I hate the corporatization of weed. I'm not gonna cry if asshole business people are cashing out with a loss. Good, as far as I'm concerned.


Sounds as if we have something in common.
 
2021-04-18 10:56:36 AM  
True legalization means you can grow your own, and if the store is overpriced crap, you'll grow your own.
 
2021-04-18 10:58:35 AM  
You let me down Canada. I can get better stuff in NJ :(
 
2021-04-18 11:01:18 AM  

New Age Redneck: Piss poor quality. Check. Insanely over priced. Check. Offensively over packaged. Check.

I have no idea why they're struggling.....


I have no idea either. It sells for $10 a gram there. How farking hard is it to grow a weed, especially for a corporation and at the industrial level?!?
 
2021-04-18 11:05:26 AM  
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2021-04-18 11:08:15 AM  
I mean, I'm in Florida Man territory for Christ's sake, and I get $3.58 grams. I have one 7 gram 13.5% THC container set aside to make edibles for 2 weeks, a 16%, a 22%, and a 27% 7 gram containers of all 4 different mixes of a lot of strains. I know Trulieve is making money off me, they are the most successful dispensary here in all of Florida.

//look into Trulieve if you are into stocks
//look into litecoin if you are into crypto
 
2021-04-18 11:16:00 AM  

tirob: If the reference is to me, I've never said that or anything like it, not even once.  The only prediction about legal weed that I've ever made was that illegal producers and sellers would continue to stay in the weed business.  And they're doing so quite successfully, thanks, that is if we take the word of the distributor whom I just quoted.


considering it is still illegal in lots of states, yes, there are still significant amount of illegal market action.

If you are expecting zero illegal activity when it is legalized, then that is a foolish ideal.  Until it is truly legal everywhere at every level, it is hard to gauge the increase or decrease of illegal activity from legalization.

I will assume we are talking large scale, compounds in federal lands type setups, and not somebody with three plants in the closet.
 
2021-04-18 11:24:59 AM  

cefm: True legalization means you can grow your own, and if the store is overpriced crap, you'll grow your own.


I can't wait till Florida lets at least medical users to grow their own. I have plans and a wish list on Amazon for a 2x4 foot tent with everything for $500. 5 months to grow two plants, each a good pound of cannabis flower, that is 32 ounces that because I have so much I will probably smoke and eat 2.5 oz of flower a month -  a savings of a good $150 at least a month from the dispensary, for a total of $1800 saved over 12 months.

I am going to grow a mostly sativa Laughing Buddha, that is my favorite because of how it makes me giggle like a little girl, and I am thinking a mostly indica like Grandaddy Purple to start with.
 
2021-04-18 11:35:10 AM  
Other than government regulation, taxes, or legality, there is no reason for weed to be expensive.   Once the real scientist that have made billions of dollars improving crops and crop management for corn and soybeans and others gets into the development of weed, it should cost about the same as a good head of cabbage.   There is money in growing a good cabbage, but not crazy stock market bubble type money.
 
2021-04-18 12:04:40 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: knobmaker: JasonOfOrillia: Pot company valuations in the leadup to legalization assumed everybody and their brother would be getting high.  reality had to sink in sooner or later.

This is bad news for Cannabevets.  It was convinced that legalization means everyone must immediately turn into stoners.

Yeah, if someone wants to smoke weed, I guess more power to them.  You do your thing and I'll um... not do it.



res.cloudinary.comView Full Size
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2021-04-18 12:23:39 PM  

Hyjamon: tirob: If the reference is to me, I've never said that or anything like it, not even once.  The only prediction about legal weed that I've ever made was that illegal producers and sellers would continue to stay in the weed business.  And they're doing so quite successfully, thanks, that is if we take the word of the distributor whom I just quoted.

considering it is still illegal in lots of states, yes, there are still significant amount of illegal market action.


TFA concerns Canada.  Where weed is legal to trade in at retail in every province.

But if you want to talk about the US, there's plenty of black market activity going on within legal at retail states in this country, too.

Illinois:  https://www.fark.com/comments/1120311​4​/IL-A-year-into-legalization-people-ar​e-still-buying-pot-from-their-guys-Whe​n-dispensaries-opened-up-last-year-we-​saw-lines-out-door-said-Sheriff-Ron-Ha​in-But-that-quickly-faded-when-custome​rs-compare-prices-convenience#new

California, where *legal* operators are doing business on the black market on the side:  https://www.fark.com/comments/1071889​9​/I-have-to-imagine-that-60-of-Californ​ias-licensed-marijuana-operators-are-d​oing-illegal-business-as-well-but-I-do​nt-think-they-enjoy-that-Its-truly-a-d​ecision-of-necessity-Because-who-would​-possibly-enjoy-piles-of-untaxed-cash-​rolling-in#new

California again:  https://www.fark.com/comments/1057451​9​/Californias-legal-marijuana-vendors-P​lease-buy-our-highly-taxed-overpriced-​product-so-that-we-arent-forced-to-go-​out-of-business-Consumers-How-about-no​

There's more of this out there if the subject interests you.

Hyjamon:   If you are expecting zero illegal activity when it is legalized, then that is a foolish ideal.

On the contrary, I wasn't.  But Trudeau and the Canadian Liberal Party argued that the best reason for legalizing at retail was that it would squeeze criminals out of the weed business.  Hasn't happened so far.
 
2021-04-18 12:26:37 PM  

tirob: FTFA:  "Everyone thought that in Canada the industry was going to move further, faster, and that hasn't happened," said Brendan Kennedy, the chief executive of Tilray, a major grower based in Nanaimo, British Columbia, that lost $272 million last year. "One of the challenges around competing with the illicit market is that the regulations are so stringent."

Oh, tough sh*t.  Lower your prices if you want to compete, rass clot.


You mean the slower-than-expected rollout caused by poorly written regulations is still ongoing even though the regulations haven't changed? I'm shocked.

tirob: b0rscht: I hate the corporatization of weed. I'm not gonna cry if asshole business people are cashing out with a loss. Good, as far as I'm concerned.

Sounds as if we have something in common.


Sounds like a good topic to discuss over some nice homegrown.
 
2021-04-18 12:29:57 PM  

b0rscht: I hate the corporatization of weed. I'm not gonna cry if asshole business people are cashing out with a loss. Good, as far as I'm concerned.


So you prefer it still be illegal and think the black markets that come with that are a net positive?
 
2021-04-18 12:49:10 PM  

caljar: Other than government regulation, taxes, or legality, there is no reason for weed to be expensive.   Once the real scientist that have made billions of dollars improving crops and crop management for corn and soybeans and others gets into the development of weed, it should cost about the same as a good head of cabbage.   There is money in growing a good cabbage, but not crazy stock market bubble type money.


The gov't regulations and taxes are ridiculous on purpose.

The intent is to strangle the industry to death any way they can.
 
2021-04-18 1:02:11 PM  

New Age Redneck: Piss poor quality. Check. Insanely over priced. Check. Offensively over packaged. Check.

I have no idea why they're struggling.....


I always get a kick out of the 3.5g bags of ditchweed for $50 that comes in a half litre hard plastic container.  The facility its grown in probably looks like a cross between a CDC bio lab and a space station, which I'm sure looks great in the marketing materials targeted at investors.

The legal weed market right now reminds me of 1997 - 2004 when everyone and their neighbour in the PNW was growing dope in their house.  Lots of shiat product flooding the market with zero correlation between quality and price.

Makes one wonder WTF those idiots are smoking when they came up with these business plans.
 
2021-04-18 1:16:04 PM  

common sense is an oxymoron: tirob: FTFA:  "Everyone thought that in Canada the industry was going to move further, faster, and that hasn't happened," said Brendan Kennedy, the chief executive of Tilray, a major grower based in Nanaimo, British Columbia, that lost $272 million last year. "One of the challenges around competing with the illicit market is that the regulations are so stringent."

Oh, tough sh*t.  Lower your prices if you want to compete, rass clot.

You mean the slower-than-expected rollout caused by poorly written regulations is still ongoing even though the regulations haven't changed? I'm shocked.


A lousy dancer will even complain that his balls are getting in the way.

Muzzleloader: The gov't regulations and taxes are ridiculous on purpose.

The intent is to strangle the industry to death any way they can.


We all know who the *real* victims are here.

GoldSpider: b0rscht: I hate the corporatization of weed. I'm not gonna cry if asshole business people are cashing out with a loss. Good, as far as I'm concerned.

So you prefer it still be illegal and think the black markets that come with that are a net positive?


Even when it's legal there's still a huge black market for the stuff.  From that perspective, where's the benefit of legalizing?
 
2021-04-18 1:20:47 PM  

natazha: The biggest problem with legal weed in Oregon - it's way too easy to grow, so there's a huge surplus.  Legalization did increase adult usage, but just a few percent, much less than the proponents thought would happen.


I don't know how every state does it but I think the biggest problem with most states is that they legalize it, then strictly limit it. They legalize it, and the big growers move in, and then they only allow 50 licenses or whatever to sell it. Here in Illinois I think they only handed out 75 for the whole state so far.

There are probably a lot of willing customers out there going untapped because they're not going to drive an hour when they can just get it from "their guy" down the street.

Then you have individual towns wagging their fingers and saying "not here".  Then there's the stupidity that they can't sell or ship it to another state. States want to legalize it but then also want to make it so difficult to do business it's not surprising that it's not doing what everyone thought it would.

If you're gonna legalize it, then just do it and treat it like any other business. The idea is good, the execution is awful.
 
2021-04-18 1:25:12 PM  

tirob: Even when it's legal there's still a huge black market for the stuff.  From that perspective, where's the benefit of legalizing?


Doesn't matter, got taxes.

Things might change a bit faster when if it gets removed from the schedule of controlled substances at the Federal level.  I'd love to see some hard data on CBD and sleep. 1/3rd good, 1/3 bad, 1/3rd no change is of no value.
 
2021-04-18 1:37:36 PM  

johnphantom: cefm: True legalization means you can grow your own, and if the store is overpriced crap, you'll grow your own.

I can't wait till Florida lets at least medical users to grow their own. I have plans and a wish list on Amazon for a 2x4 foot tent with everything for $500. 5 months to grow two plants, each a good pound of cannabis flower, that is 32 ounces that because I have so much I will probably smoke and eat 2.5 oz of flower a month -  a savings of a good $150 at least a month from the dispensary, for a total of $1800 saved over 12 months.

I am going to grow a mostly sativa Laughing Buddha, that is my favorite because of how it makes me giggle like a little girl, and I am thinking a mostly indica like Grandaddy Purple to start with.


I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.  I have 2x4 tent and never had a plant any where close to a half-pound off a plant, let alone a pound a plant.  Is this cop math or when it is still wet?

If you have never grown indoor before, you may want to rethink your self-supply chain.
 
2021-04-18 1:40:38 PM  

tirob: common sense is an oxymoron: tirob: FTFA:  "Everyone thought that in Canada the industry was going to move further, faster, and that hasn't happened," said Brendan Kennedy, the chief executive of Tilray, a major grower based in Nanaimo, British Columbia, that lost $272 million last year. "One of the challenges around competing with the illicit market is that the regulations are so stringent."

Oh, tough sh*t.  Lower your prices if you want to compete, rass clot.

You mean the slower-than-expected rollout caused by poorly written regulations is still ongoing even though the regulations haven't changed? I'm shocked.

A lousy dancer will even complain that his balls are getting in the way.


As would Fred Astaire if he had elephantiasis. Your point?
 
2021-04-18 1:40:40 PM  

tirob: Even when it's legal there's still a huge black market for the stuff.  From that perspective, where's the benefit of legalizing?


so because there will still be bad actors, we shouldn't do anything at all?

So, I decide to grow my own organic plants in an environmentally friendly way on my own property for my own consumption.  Tell me why that should be illegal and how that activity contributes to the black market?  Or why I shouldn't be allowed to do that because of some other bad actor?

How about you fix the problems available to you, then fix the harder ones later.
 
2021-04-18 1:42:09 PM  

Hyjamon: johnphantom: cefm: True legalization means you can grow your own, and if the store is overpriced crap, you'll grow your own.

I can't wait till Florida lets at least medical users to grow their own. I have plans and a wish list on Amazon for a 2x4 foot tent with everything for $500. 5 months to grow two plants, each a good pound of cannabis flower, that is 32 ounces that because I have so much I will probably smoke and eat 2.5 oz of flower a month -  a savings of a good $150 at least a month from the dispensary, for a total of $1800 saved over 12 months.

I am going to grow a mostly sativa Laughing Buddha, that is my favorite because of how it makes me giggle like a little girl, and I am thinking a mostly indica like Grandaddy Purple to start with.

I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.  I have 2x4 tent and never had a plant any where close to a half-pound off a plant, let alone a pound a plant.  Is this cop math or when it is still wet?

If you have never grown indoor before, you may want to rethink your self-supply chain.


1lb per plant. HAHA maybe if they are 12' outdoors you will get a quarter pound a plant...
When I grew for profit we calculated yield / KW lights used. Per plant doesn't mean squat.
In a 10KW room we would yield 8-10 lbs each crop.  In a 2x4 room you will be lucky to get 2 oz per crop.
 
2021-04-18 2:13:47 PM  

SumoJeb: 1lb per plant. HAHA maybe if they are 12' outdoors you will get a quarter pound a plant...
When I grew for profit we calculated yield / KW lights used. Per plant doesn't mean squat.
In a 10KW room we would yield 8-10 lbs each crop.  In a 2x4 room you will be lucky to get 2 oz per crop.


I run two 600W LED equivalents in a 2x4 tent.  I can yield approx. 1 oz per plant (about two quart mason jars), and can run about 6-8 plants in the tent in 2 gallon fabric containers...but its crowded.

have one hanging in a closet now drying to give you an idea. I may share a pic of if I feel so brave, but there are plenty of others on the internets.
 
2021-04-18 2:23:43 PM  

natazha: tirob: Even when it's legal there's still a huge black market for the stuff.  From that perspective, where's the benefit of legalizing?

Doesn't matter, got taxes.

Things might change a bit faster when if it gets removed from the schedule of controlled substances at the Federal level.


Again, TFA deals with *Canada,* where the stuff is descheduled.  And trading in it at retail has been legal (federally) there for ~2 1/2 years.

common sense is an oxymoron: tirob: common sense is an oxymoron: tirob: FTFA:  "Everyone thought that in Canada the industry was going to move further, faster, and that hasn't happened," said Brendan Kennedy, the chief executive of Tilray, a major grower based in Nanaimo, British Columbia, that lost $272 million last year. "One of the challenges around competing with the illicit market is that the regulations are so stringent."

Oh, tough sh*t.  Lower your prices if you want to compete, rass clot.

You mean the slower-than-expected rollout caused by poorly written regulations is still ongoing even though the regulations haven't changed? I'm shocked.

A lousy dancer will even complain that his balls are getting in the way.

As would Fred Astaire if he had elephantiasis. Your point?


My point is that Brendan Rass Clot Kennedy is making excuses for his inability to compete with black market producers and sellers.  Who are putting out merchandise that is cheaper than his, and at least as suited to its market than his if not more so, and whose retailers are open for business 24/7/365.  And if we believe this article, their merchandise has a more desirable cachet for its market than his does, too.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opini​o​n/article-cannabis-has-been-legal-for-​almost-three-years-so-why-dont-we-want​-to/
 
2021-04-18 2:25:26 PM  

Hyjamon: SumoJeb: 1lb per plant. HAHA maybe if they are 12' outdoors you will get a quarter pound a plant...
When I grew for profit we calculated yield / KW lights used. Per plant doesn't mean squat.
In a 10KW room we would yield 8-10 lbs each crop.  In a 2x4 room you will be lucky to get 2 oz per crop.

I run two 600W LED equivalents in a 2x4 tent.  I can yield approx. 1 oz per plant (about two quart mason jars), and can run about 6-8 plants in the tent in 2 gallon fabric containers...but its crowded.

have one hanging in a closet now drying to give you an idea. I may share a pic of if I feel so brave, but there are plenty of others on the internets.


Yah i was more than a bit off on my amounts. your numbers are far more realistic.
 
2021-04-18 2:30:23 PM  

b0rscht: natazha: The biggest problem with legal weed in Oregon - it's way too easy to grow, so there's a huge surplus.  Legalization did increase adult usage, but just a few percent, much less than the proponents thought would happen.

Oregon is my favorite weed state, by far. So cheap, so good. Colorado is #2.

Illinois can eat a bag of overpriced dicks. I refuse to drive there and buy their overpriced corporate weed. It's like going to the DMV to get weed. I want to see and smell product before I buy it.


Washington was so cheap, and quality didn't so much as dip after recreational KILLED medical, but rather all the basically okay to good stuff got lost in the mix. So-called top shelf and super top shelf seemed more related to stunt weed (oil dipped, keef rolled buds --- that kind of shiat) or how fancily appointed the dispensary was. I was almost always able to drive and save on that shiat. My favorite weed store ... I think barely in Seattle, or in Shoreline was a former hot-sheet motel that got painted green and turned into a large retail spot with the charm of a specialty auto-parts store. The prices weren''t bad when I got a medical card in WA --- at the beginning of legal recreational --- there was just one store in King county and it was always running out. However, the medical cannabis experience was cool. You could look at flower and smell it, form relationships with the staff who really cared about this stuff. But after while of recreational expansion and the DEATH of 90% of the medical dispensaries, the price just keep getting better for the consumer. Honestly, if a 1gm pre-roll of XYZ strain from ABC dispensary that cost $4 ($5 with a buck tip) wasn't great, I wasn't that upset. When I left almost four years ago, I could get a decent ounce of Blueberry testing over 20% THC for $59 and tax.  Sometimes recreation market weed was amazing, but I did miss the chance to talk to knowledgeable weed folks. Briefly talk. They are like craft beer nerds, so mixed bag. I hit up Oregon a bit ago. The two places I stopped in were cool, but I stopped there hunting one strain. One was a massive medical/recreational hybrid in a small town in SE Oregon with no competition for a hundred miles, or so. But their prices and quality was great, the frustrating packaging of retail weed next to medical was weird in contrast to each other. I have purchased medical weed in WA, CA, and AR and might try OK and DC soon. I have purchased retail legally in WA, CO, and OR only, I guess. I found selection lacking and prices high in CO, and this proved true over three separate visits that were spaced by a couple of years each trip.
 
2021-04-18 2:41:09 PM  

Hyjamon: johnphantom: cefm: True legalization means you can grow your own, and if the store is overpriced crap, you'll grow your own.

I can't wait till Florida lets at least medical users to grow their own. I have plans and a wish list on Amazon for a 2x4 foot tent with everything for $500. 5 months to grow two plants, each a good pound of cannabis flower, that is 32 ounces that because I have so much I will probably smoke and eat 2.5 oz of flower a month -  a savings of a good $150 at least a month from the dispensary, for a total of $1800 saved over 12 months.

I am going to grow a mostly sativa Laughing Buddha, that is my favorite because of how it makes me giggle like a little girl, and I am thinking a mostly indica like Grandaddy Purple to start with.

I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.  I have 2x4 tent and never had a plant any where close to a half-pound off a plant, let alone a pound a plant.  Is this cop math or when it is still wet?

If you have never grown indoor before, you may want to rethink your self-supply chain.


The sites say to expect 450g, that is about a pound.

SumoJeb: In a 2x4 room you will be lucky to get 2 oz per crop.


An ounce a plant?
 
2021-04-18 2:41:34 PM  
metalmusicarchives.comView Full Size

Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?
 
2021-04-18 2:44:17 PM  

GoldSpider: b0rscht: I hate the corporatization of weed. I'm not gonna cry if asshole business people are cashing out with a loss. Good, as far as I'm concerned.

So you prefer it still be illegal and think the black markets that come with that are a net positive?


Those aren't the only options. How about treating weed like oregano? Legal in the sense of "who cares?" rather than legal in the sense of having books of specific laws written about it. Some people will grow and sell it commercially at large scale. If you go to a farmer's market you can probably find some fresher stuff grown locally. You can grow it at home if you feel like it. Commercial operations would be subject to generic laws around licensing and product safety but nothing focused on the plant itself.

It would never happen because of the "think of the children!" factor, but we could try to lean in that direction when creating new regulations.
 
2021-04-18 3:30:27 PM  

tirob: Even when it's legal there's still a huge black market for the stuff.  From that perspective, where's the benefit of legalizing?


1) Enormous savings of law enforcement resources. They no longer have to police the buying, selling, or use of marijuana. Their time and budgets can be directed elsewhere.

2) Tax revenue.

3) Restoring autonomy to individuals to make their own recreational and health decisions.
 
2021-04-18 3:52:06 PM  

Eddie Hazel's E string: tirob: Even when it's legal there's still a huge black market for the stuff.  From that perspective, where's the benefit of legalizing?

1) Enormous savings of law enforcement resources. They no longer have to police the buying, selling, or use of marijuana. Their time and budgets can be directed elsewhere.

2) Tax revenue.

3) Restoring autonomy to individuals to make their own recreational and health decisions.


1.  Really?  Got a citation for that?  Because I just posted this article

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opini​o​n/article-cannabis-has-been-legal-for-​almost-three-years-so-why-dont-we-want​-to/

according to which the Canadian cops still have plenty to do enforcing the new weed laws; specifically, there's a huge black market for the stuff there which the cops there are finding it impossible to eradicate.  See also TFA for a quote from a weed pusher executive (I reproduced it further up this page) in which he cusses out his black market competitors for undercutting him (in so many words, anyway).

2.  Got any figures for what the Ottawa and the provinces are clearing in taxes from the finest plant on Earth after paying the regulators and the cops who enforce the weed laws?

3.  I wouldn't call using weed "recreation" unless I was speaking sarcastically.  And what kind of health decisions are you talking about here?  The ones that concern whether to stumble around wasted, with bloodshot eyes and yellow teeth?
 
2021-04-18 3:56:14 PM  

cefm: True legalization means you can grow your own, and if the store is overpriced crap, you'll grow your own.


That scares the hell out of me.
Not for any moral reasons. It's just because Mrs. Maxis likes to grow things. ANYTHING! and she's really good at it. She's snagged seeds from all over the world and smuggled them back into the states and have gotten all kinds of plants to grow in her grow room. I figure if they legalize growing your own, we'll end up with some funky smelling tree in filling the room.
 
2021-04-18 4:03:21 PM  
Not surprising.
1. New area for commerce opens.
2. Lots of people jump in to fill it and increase supply past demand.
3. Various practices/business models are tried.
4. What works changes as the customer base decided what prices/services are best.
5. Only those who are lucky, know the field AND have some business acumen survive.
6. Closed stores decrease supply below demand.
7. More people get into the field.
8. situation repeats but at a smaller scale.
 
2021-04-18 4:23:00 PM  

tirob: Eddie Hazel's E string: tirob: Even when it's legal there's still a huge black market for the stuff.  From that perspective, where's the benefit of legalizing?

1) Enormous savings of law enforcement resources. They no longer have to police the buying, selling, or use of marijuana. Their time and budgets can be directed elsewhere.

2) Tax revenue.

3) Restoring autonomy to individuals to make their own recreational and health decisions.

1.  Really?  Got a citation for that?  Because I just posted this article

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinio​n/article-cannabis-has-been-legal-for-​almost-three-years-so-why-dont-we-want​-to/

according to which the Canadian cops still have plenty to do enforcing the new weed laws; specifically, there's a huge black market for the stuff there which the cops there are finding it impossible to eradicate.  See also TFA for a quote from a weed pusher executive (I reproduced it further up this page) in which he cusses out his black market competitors for undercutting him (in so many words, anyway).

2.  Got any figures for what the Ottawa and the provinces are clearing in taxes from the finest plant on Earth after paying the regulators and the cops who enforce the weed laws?

3.  I wouldn't call using weed "recreation" unless I was speaking sarcastically.  And what kind of health decisions are you talking about here?  The ones that concern whether to stumble around wasted, with bloodshot eyes and yellow teeth?


1. Thanks for re-sharing your link. It's an opinion piece from a paywalled website. I don't wish to subscribe.

2. You posed a basic question and I responded in good faith with cogent answers. The particulars of Ottawa's situation are immaterial to my points.

3. The articulate posters in this message board have demonstrated that your insult bears little relevance to the many individuals who do support legal cannabis, but instead perpetuates a decades out-of-date stereotype.

I tend to only glance at these threads on occasion, but it's now quite clear how you've earned your reputation here.
 
2021-04-18 4:31:11 PM  

tirob: natazha: tirob: Even when it's legal there's still a huge black market for the stuff.  From that perspective, where's the benefit of legalizing?

Doesn't matter, got taxes.

Things might change a bit faster when if it gets removed from the schedule of controlled substances at the Federal level.

Again, TFA deals with *Canada,* where the stuff is descheduled.  And trading in it at retail has been legal (federally) there for ~2 1/2 years.

common sense is an oxymoron: tirob: common sense is an oxymoron: tirob: FTFA:  "Everyone thought that in Canada the industry was going to move further, faster, and that hasn't happened," said Brendan Kennedy, the chief executive of Tilray, a major grower based in Nanaimo, British Columbia, that lost $272 million last year. "One of the challenges around competing with the illicit market is that the regulations are so stringent."

Oh, tough sh*t.  Lower your prices if you want to compete, rass clot.

You mean the slower-than-expected rollout caused by poorly written regulations is still ongoing even though the regulations haven't changed? I'm shocked.

A lousy dancer will even complain that his balls are getting in the way.

As would Fred Astaire if he had elephantiasis. Your point?

My point is that Brendan Rass Clot Kennedy is making excuses for his inability to compete with black market producers and sellers.  Who are putting out merchandise that is cheaper than his, and at least as suited to its market than his if not more so, and whose retailers are open for business 24/7/365.  And if we believe this article, their merchandise has a more desirable cachet for its market than his does, too.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinio​n/article-cannabis-has-been-legal-for-​almost-three-years-so-why-dont-we-want​-to/


Nice paywall. Thanks.

Seems like you're saying that when a government makes projections for instituting the regulated distribution of a newly legalized commodity, and a corporation makes a good-faith investment in production facilities to meet the anticipated demand, and regional/local governments then impose unanticipated restrictions on those plans, it's the corporation's fault that they can't make an immediate profit AND that a street-level black market still flourishes. And that when said corporation's brand is, by law, only available in stores whose own brand equity has been self-torpedoed, it's the corporation's fault that their own brand suffers as a result. Which makes no sense at all unless you're trying to show that weed is inherently evil more socially undesirable than certain other legalized commodities (DRINK!). Which also makes no sense.
 
2021-04-18 4:52:47 PM  

johnphantom: The sites say to expect 450g, that is about a pound.

SumoJeb: In a 2x4 room you will be lucky to get 2 oz per crop.


An ounce a plant?


What the site says (500g) for one of the plants I grew vs. the 1 oz. I yielded were about that.

As others mentioned, outdoors or indoors with a lot of space, maybe you can pull that off.  Perfect conditions will yield that much.  Otherwise, aim for 1oz per plant in a tent of that size.

I recently got a smaller starter tent (30x18x36) to run 18/6 for new ones to grow for 6-8 weeks and the 2x4 set at the 12/12 cycle for remaining flowering cycle.   I can speed up my harvest cycles now to every 2-3 months instead of 4-5 months.

A few other things you may not realize about growing yourself is it will not be stepped on or packed or bricked.  So the buds look huge, but there is quite a bit of empty space in them.

you'll find your way.  took me about two years to get a lot of little things down.
 
2021-04-18 5:49:20 PM  

Eddie Hazel's E string: 1. Really? Got a citation for that? Because I just posted this article

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinio​n/article-cannabis-has-been-legal-for-​almost-three-years-so-why-dont-we-want​-to/

according to which the Canadian cops still have plenty to do enforcing the new weed laws; specifically, there's a huge black market for the stuff there which the cops there are finding it impossible to eradicate. See also TFA for a quote from a weed pusher executive (I reproduced it further up this page) in which he cusses out his black market competitors for undercutting him (in so many words, anyway).

2. Got any figures for what the Ottawa and the provinces are clearing in taxes from the finest plant on Earth after paying the regulators and the cops who enforce the weed laws?

3. I wouldn't call using weed "recreation" unless I was speaking sarcastically. And what kind of health decisions are you talking about here? The ones that concern whether to stumble around wasted, with bloodshot eyes and yellow teeth?

1. Thanks for re-sharing your link. It's an opinion piece from a paywalled website. I don't wish to subscribe.

2. You posed a basic question and I responded in good faith with cogent answers. The particulars of Ottawa's situation are immaterial to my points.

3. The articulate posters in this message board have demonstrated that your insult bears little relevance to the many individuals who do support legal cannabis, but instead perpetuates a decades out-of-date stereotype.

I tend to only glance at these threads on occasion, but it's now quite clear how you've earned your reputation here.


1.  The site worked for me without a paywall, and I'm sorry that it didn't work for you.  There's plenty of material out there on the Canadian black market for weed and the futile efforts by local law enforcement to put the quietus on it.  E.g.:

https://www.fark.com/comments/1112212​2​/Chatham-Ontario-Since-September-local​-police-have-seized-CAD-$255-million-w​orth-of-black-market-marijuana-in-four​-raids-For-those-of-you-in-US-thats-$1​59600-at-current-exchange-rates

There's much more where that came from if the subject interests you.

2.  Your good faith and cogent answers were your considered opinions only; they were unburdened by facts that would back them up.

3.  Stumbling drunks are frequently "articulate," too.  So I don't find your argument particularly convincing.

common sense is an oxymoron:

Nice paywall. Thanks.

My apologies.  That site worked for me sans paywall as I just said.  On the subject of the Canadian black market, I just put up another source on it.  And there's more where that came from.

common sense is an oxymoron: Seems like you're saying


Nope.  What I am saying is this: [Canadian black market weed operators] are putting out merchandise that is cheaper than [storebought], and at least as suited to its market than [storebought] if not more so, and whose retailers are open for business 24/7/365.

And your response to that was a series of BS excuses and obfuscations that fails to address a single assertion I made.

common sense is an oxymoron: unless you're trying to show that weed is inherently evil more socially undesirable than certain other legalized commodities


I'm trying to show that enforcing laws whose writers supposed that they would satisfactorily regulate the distribution and sale of weed has been an exercise in futility in Canada and elsewhere.  And you have offered zero evidence that my assessment is at all erroneous.
 
2021-04-18 6:05:37 PM  

tirob: I'm trying to show that enforcing laws whose writers supposed that they would satisfactorily regulate the distribution and sale of weed has been an exercise in futility in Canada and elsewhere. And you have offered zero evidence that my assessment is at all erroneous.


Problems caused by onerous regulations (half-assed legalization) is not a reason to impose even more onerous regulations (outright illegality), it's a reason to reduce regulations.
 
2021-04-18 7:59:30 PM  

trialpha: tirob: I'm trying to show that enforcing laws whose writers supposed that they would satisfactorily regulate the distribution and sale of weed has been an exercise in futility in Canada and elsewhere. And you have offered zero evidence that my assessment is at all erroneous.

Problems caused by onerous regulations (half-assed legalization) is not a reason to impose even more onerous regulations (outright illegality), it's a reason to reduce regulations.


Excellent point, and I will add to your argument.  Because I would even go so far as to say that if we're going to legalize weed, we should make it the law that anyone should be able to sell any amount to anyone else at any time and at any place, with no regulations imposed on production and no taxes imposed on any sale.  Because that's what's going to happen anyway.

The only problems with that scenario are that no legislature that I know of would pass such a law, and that no referendum based on such a law would ever win a majority of votes anywhere.  So that in order to get legalization past voters and legislators, the pro-legalization side had to invent arbitrary limits on who could sell to whom and where and when and how much, and had to propose regulations (that are often toothless) and taxes (to mollify legislators) on the stuff.  So I guess we're back to trying to tweak the laws--and I'm open to suggestions on that, but I just don't think that the trade in weed lends itself to regulation for the reason that I outlined in the previous paragraph.
 
2021-04-18 9:00:36 PM  
It's the same startup curve you see in accessible new fields. Hundreds of one line railroads. The thousand coach built auto companies, the hundreds of one off airplane companies. Hundreds of little VHF tv channels in the 60s that turned out to be worth more dead than alive. The whole dot com fiasco.

The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
 
2021-04-18 9:15:36 PM  

tirob: common sense is an oxymoron: Seems like you're saying that when a government makes projections for instituting the regulated distribution of a newly legalized commodity, and a corporation makes a good-faith investment in production facilities to meet the anticipated demand, and regional/local governments then impose unanticipated restrictions on those plans, it's the corporation's fault that they can't make an immediate profit AND that a street-level black market still flourishes. And that when said corporation's brand is, by law, only available in stores whose own brand equity has been self-torpedoed, it's the corporation's fault that their own brand suffers as a result. Which makes no sense at all unless you're trying to show that weed is inherently evil more socially undesirable than certain other legalized commodities (DRINK!). Which also makes no sense.

Nope.  What I am saying is this: [Canadian black market weed operators] are putting out merchandise that is cheaper than [storebought], and at least as suited to its market than [storebought] if not more so, and whose retailers are open for business 24/7/365.

And your response to that was a series of BS excuses and obfuscations that fails to address a single assertion I made.


Speaking of BS obfuscations, that's a doozy right there.

The only assertion you have ever made here is "weed is bad," and pointing out the innumerable flaws in that assertion is in fact addressing it, no matter how many years you spend deluding yourself into believing otherwise.
 
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