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(NPR)   A new poll shows that only 29% of Democrats support bills prohibiting transgender athletes from joining sports teams that match their gender identity. Oh, wait, my bad, I misread that: that should say "only 29% of Republicans"   (npr.org) divider line
    More: Interesting, Transgender, Sexual orientation, Gender identity, High school, Middle school, Third gender, Gender, Republican Party  
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564 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Apr 2021 at 12:16 PM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-04-16 11:13:12 AM  
Regardless of anyone's opinion on this issue (I truly don't care about yours), why would there need to be legislation with respect to it?
 
2021-04-16 11:13:17 AM  
Republicans: It's unfair to provide equal funding to women's athletics at HS and college. Women's sports suck. They don't have as many fans. Real male athletes are being shortchanged by this PC bullshiat.

Also republicans: We feel very strongly about the need to protect the integrity of women's athletic programs from transgender people.
 
2021-04-16 11:20:28 AM  
I think most Republicans tire of the demand that they wake up each day and hate somebody.
 
2021-04-16 11:35:01 AM  

edmo: I think most Republicans tire of the demand that they wake up each day and hate somebody.


Surrounded by many of them, it's less "active hate" and more like "OK, this has gone too far, gotta draw the line somewhere"

It's a much more benign attitude, but still not right. Hell, if we even standardized sports by regulating testosterone or estrogen levels to determine where the athlete should compete, you'd have tons of variety. But at least it would be objective. I think that's what most rule-bound activities and societies are looking for -- a simple definition.
 
2021-04-16 11:38:36 AM  
Nobody gives a shiat what the rednecks think. Let's see what the Wynns, Adelson heirs, and Russians have to say; money is all that matters to those shiatgibbons.
 
2021-04-16 11:57:50 AM  

edmo: I think most Republicans tire of the demand that they wake up each day and hate and fear somebody.


FTFY.
 
2021-04-16 12:17:48 PM  
GOP: Hating gays isn't getting the traction it used to so let's hate the trans community!

Average person:  Piss off.
 
2021-04-16 12:18:32 PM  
Since the world didn't burn down after Obergefell v. Hodges, the GQP is in constant search of a new wedge issue to divide Americans.
 
2021-04-16 12:20:07 PM  
Yes, I, too can't wait for the day Lebron James dunks on Sylvia Fowles.

Equal is equal, right?
 
2021-04-16 12:20:36 PM  
Their hoping Sky Daddy didn't see them with said Trans kids in the locker room...
 
2021-04-16 12:21:07 PM  
And yet they are and still vote Republican.
 
2021-04-16 12:21:49 PM  
Finally running out of palatable targets for their audience. They asked them to hate dogs too just because Biden has some.
 
2021-04-16 12:22:10 PM  
Republicans spend a lot of time generating outrage over stuff nobody cares about.
 
2021-04-16 12:23:01 PM  
There are REPUBLICANS (the relatively small minority of overtly racist/sexist/conspiracy-minded asshats whose careers depend on making mountains of molehills), and then there are Republicans (the larger body who are either quietly racist/sexist/conspiracy minded and/or who simply can't be bothered to keep their party in check because Jesus).
 
2021-04-16 12:23:10 PM  

b2theory: Regardless of anyone's opinion on this issue (I truly don't care about yours), why would there need to be legislation with respect to it?


Yeah, definitely doesn't need to be decided by lawmakers.

That being said, sports themselves should probably be rethinking how they group athletes. Gender can be a half decent proxy for genetic limits, but it may be time to actually take a more nuanced approach.
 
2021-04-16 12:24:29 PM  
That's weird to read because I had bought into the narrative that republicans were super bigoted on this issue.
 
2021-04-16 12:24:41 PM  
So, Republicans have a lot of trans children, then?
 
2021-04-16 12:25:48 PM  
But those 29% are mostly people who vote in all elections, including primaries. Go against them and they'll support a primary challenge and they will most likely win.
 
2021-04-16 12:26:54 PM  
How strange. Isn't wanting to inspect the genitals of high schoolers a totally normal thing for Republicans by now? I guess Gaetz really needs some more ad buys,
 
2021-04-16 12:27:08 PM  
But that 29% cares deeply and needs fuel for the 24 hour hate machine that is Fox news and talk radio. The remaining 71% will still vote for them.
 
2021-04-16 12:27:50 PM  
Somebody really wants attention.
 
2021-04-16 12:28:03 PM  
Now if only Republican voters believed in negative consequences for Republican elected officials who don't actually represent them.
 
2021-04-16 12:28:17 PM  

kmgenesis23: There are REPUBLICANS (the relatively small minority of overtly racist/sexist/conspiracy-minded asshats whose careers depend on making mountains of molehills), and then there are Republicans (the larger body who are either quietly racist/sexist/conspiracy minded and/or who simply can't be bothered to keep their party in check because Jesus).


There's a lot of them who don't realize they're even racist or sexist, which I think makes it easier for them to look in the mirror and be single issue voters.
 
2021-04-16 12:29:13 PM  
Soon enough, they will ensure that it's 100% of Republicans, and not a small chunk of democrats.  Control the message and you control the world.
 
2021-04-16 12:34:04 PM  
It's time progressives accept that the Republican party is their new home.
 
2021-04-16 12:34:08 PM  
It's amazing that with all going on in this country this is what we are talking about.
farking GQP
 
2021-04-16 12:34:32 PM  

Fart_Machine: GOP: Hating gays isn't getting the traction it used to so let's hate the trans community!
Average person:  Piss off.


I don't if a lot of people enjoyed the gay marriage Supreme Court decision the way I did, and I'm not gay.  But it took all the wind out of bigots sails when that happened.  That was one of their baseline issues.

They have sort of been floundering ever since then.  When the gays all came out of the closet, even the bigots couldn't find enough to hate.  They've been looking for another symbol ever since then.

Doesn't help that a bunch of Republicans suddenly said, wait a minute--I'M gay, and there's nothing wrong with that.
 
2021-04-16 12:34:53 PM  
I would jokingly blame Carrot Top for this but that treads a little too close to victim shaming territory.
 
2021-04-16 12:37:07 PM  
The wedgeist of wedge issues the kind that no one likes for the sole purpose of dickishness.
 
2021-04-16 12:40:21 PM  

Wanderlusting: Yes, I, too can't wait for the day Lebron James dunks on Sylvia Fowles.

Equal is equal, right?


Does LeBron identify as female?
Does Sylvia identify as male?

Does your scenario have more than a passing resemblance to what is actually being discussed?

Three questions, one answer.
 
2021-04-16 12:41:48 PM  
Some Farkers: "How ridiculous that this is how Republicans waste their time. No one cares."

Some other Farkers: "I'm as liberal as they come, but I have some concerns about trans women playing sports."
 
2021-04-16 12:43:31 PM  

Samfucious: Republicans spend a lot of time generating outrage over stuff nobody cares about.


They need to feed more and more outrage to an ever shrinking donor base.
 
2021-04-16 12:43:50 PM  
Said this elsewhere, it feels like conservatives are looking for an issue to fundraise one.
 
2021-04-16 12:45:05 PM  
Go bother God, you moralizing Pharisaical bastids. And take your farkING scribes and Sadducees with you, hypocrites.

/ Not AntiSemitical. Metaphorical. It's been a while since the Jews were Pharasees, Sadducees and Scribes.

And they don't even have a Hell yet. How do they manage to live with other people?
 
2021-04-16 12:45:41 PM  
Even if every single one of these bills fails, this all takes a psychological toll on some of our most marginalized members of society. "Don't worry, they're just trying to make people hate you so they can raise money" isn't exactly comforting to trans people.
 
2021-04-16 12:48:52 PM  
Another manufactured problem brought to you by the GQP bigots.
 
2021-04-16 12:49:26 PM  
These polls have no meaning.

Unless "disagreeing with the party proposal" means "Will not vote for them anymore" what the poll is actually showing is "Yup, republicans support this bill just fine".

The way these polls should be worded are:

Will you leave the party or not vote for the party candidate over this issue?

No?  Ok, we'll put you down as homophobic.  Thanks.
 
2021-04-16 12:49:50 PM  
Are you their personal physician? Then it's none of your business.
 
2021-04-16 12:50:32 PM  
I don't think we need legislation, but it is a goofy thing that I don't know the answer for. I have personal experience here...my daughter's soccer team.. these are 9 year olds...they are playing a team, and one of the kids was clearly male.  Not particular skilled. but much larger and much stronger. And named James. Playing on the girls team. It wasn't fair from a sports contest standpoint.  Her team loved her (assuming pronouns here).  She scored 8 goals.  These were pointless games because nobody learned anything.

So yeah, I don't know what to do about that. At some point, its a competition problem. At that age, we just sorta shrugged our shoulders. I don't know if there will ever be a good or clear answer.  If it was state cup games, the soccer moms would have been pissed.
 
2021-04-16 12:50:43 PM  
Trans people ruining sportball are the new welfare queens, i.e. very few examples totally blown out of proportion to the point of myth.

GQP gasbags get many miles out of these.
 
2021-04-16 12:51:55 PM  

covalesj: I don't think we need legislation, but it is a goofy thing that I don't know the answer for. I have personal experience here...my daughter's soccer team.. these are 9 year olds...they are playing a team, and one of the kids was clearly male.  Not particular skilled. but much larger and much stronger. And named James. Playing on the girls team. It wasn't fair from a sports contest standpoint.  Her team loved her (assuming pronouns here).  She scored 8 goals.  These were pointless games because nobody learned anything.

So yeah, I don't know what to do about that. At some point, its a competition problem. At that age, we just sorta shrugged our shoulders. I don't know if there will ever be a good or clear answer.  If it was state cup games, the soccer moms would have been pissed.


That happens when you have a more physically built girl on the team anyways.
 
2021-04-16 12:51:57 PM  
The International Olympic Committee has allowed transgender athletes to perform in the Olympics since the 2004 games.  In all that time, the only transgender athlete to have made a national team and competed in the Olympics has been a trans man.

It's almost like this whole issue is overblown bullshiat used as a smokescreen for outright and baseless bigotry.
 
2021-04-16 12:58:07 PM  
I genuinely hope this is a Terri Schiavo situation: Republican legislators grossly misreading their most evangelical supporters as reflecting the common opinion of the public and it blowing up in their faces (that was certainly an event that pushed me away from them at the time.)
 
2021-04-16 1:01:36 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: covalesj: I don't think we need legislation, but it is a goofy thing that I don't know the answer for. I have personal experience here...my daughter's soccer team.. these are 9 year olds...they are playing a team, and one of the kids was clearly male.  Not particular skilled. but much larger and much stronger. And named James. Playing on the girls team. It wasn't fair from a sports contest standpoint.  Her team loved her (assuming pronouns here).  She scored 8 goals.  These were pointless games because nobody learned anything.

So yeah, I don't know what to do about that. At some point, its a competition problem. At that age, we just sorta shrugged our shoulders. I don't know if there will ever be a good or clear answer.  If it was state cup games, the soccer moms would have been pissed.

That happens when you have a more physically built girl on the team anyways.


No-- not like this.I have coached enough boys and girls teams to know. This chart and this discussion on reddit that looks at strength data for populations explains it well. 95% of men are strong than 95% of women. Across all age ranges.  Put another way, put 95 our of 100 men on any women's team and they will be the top on raw strength.
 
2021-04-16 1:01:39 PM  

brantgoose: Go bother God, you moralizing Pharisaical bastids. And take your farkING scribes and Sadducees with you, hypocrites.

/ Not AntiSemitical. Metaphorical. It's been a while since the Jews were Pharasees, Sadducees and Scribes.

And they don't even have a Hell yet. How do they manage to live with other people?


"Hell is other people." - Sartre. 

I assume by 'other people' he meant politically conservative, religious wingnuts.
 
2021-04-16 1:02:57 PM  
Republicans are addressing the rampant problem of high school boys spending tens of thousands of dollars on surgery and hormone therapies so that they can win high school girls track meets.  Rampant!
 
2021-04-16 1:03:01 PM  

covalesj: I don't think we need legislation, but it is a goofy thing that I don't know the answer for. I have personal experience here...my daughter's soccer team.. these are 9 year olds...they are playing a team, and one of the kids was clearly male.  Not particular skilled. but much larger and much stronger. And named James. Playing on the girls team. It wasn't fair from a sports contest standpoint.  Her team loved her (assuming pronouns here).  She scored 8 goals.  These were pointless games because nobody learned anything.

So yeah, I don't know what to do about that. At some point, its a competition problem. At that age, we just sorta shrugged our shoulders. I don't know if there will ever be a good or clear answer.  If it was state cup games, the soccer moms would have been pissed.


This is fearmongering and has nothing to do with that girl named "James". At that age there isn't any physiological difference and a tall girl on a soccer team could just be natural statistical variation. There's always going to be someone bigger and stronger, whether it's "James" or June.
 
2021-04-16 1:04:02 PM  
At some point, all women's spots will be dominated by trans women. I'm fine with that, but I predict others won't be.
 
2021-04-16 1:05:47 PM  

b2theory: Regardless of anyone's opinion on this issue (I truly don't care about yours), why would there need to be legislation with respect to it?


Because sports is to a large degree funded by the government.

The government would like society to reflect the norms society has decided.

You're asking the same as "why should the government decide who is allowed to enter a bar" essentially.

And anyway, females aren't equal to men in sports, if the genders where to compete in the same group, men would win.

It's an interesting discussion about how to allow men who identifies as females participate in the female portion. I know who would win if money was involved, and so do you.
 
2021-04-16 1:06:05 PM  

A'isha P.: The International Olympic Committee has allowed transgender athletes to perform in the Olympics since the 2004 games.  In all that time, the only transgender athlete to have made a national team and competed in the Olympics has been a trans man.

It's almost like this whole issue is overblown bullshiat used as a smokescreen for outright and baseless bigotry.


This isn't an attack on you--your comment just made me think about it--but I really dislike this "There aren't even that many" argument. It suggests that trans women can play sports if and only if there aren't too many of them doing so--and as long as they don't win. And that really doesn't sit well with me.
 
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