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(Some Guy)   Lance Armstrong admitted he used EPO to help him win 7 Tour de France events. Will he eventually admit that he also used a cycling motor to help him win 7 Tour de France events?   (cyclingweekly.com) divider line
    More: Sick, Michele Ferrari, French people, former boss of French Anti-Doping, 2004 Tour de France, Tour de France, Lance Armstrong, Lance Armstrong of motor-doping, Jean-Pierre Verdy  
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580 clicks; posted to Sports » on 12 Apr 2021 at 3:56 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



32 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-04-12 11:59:41 AM  
They don't inspect the bikes before & after a race?
 
2021-04-12 12:04:21 PM  
I just don't think the technology was there in 1999.
 
2021-04-12 12:08:51 PM  
The motor doping charge is stupid.  They didn't have the technology back then.  Even if they did, the entire frame of the bike would have to be a battery, just for one mountain climb.  So he'd have to lug around a massively heavy bike for the rest of the day.  Bad physics.
 
2021-04-12 12:12:23 PM  

Ker_Thwap: The motor doping charge is stupid.  They didn't have the technology back then.  Even if they did, the entire frame of the bike would have to be a battery, just for one mountain climb.  So he'd have to lug around a massively heavy bike for the rest of the day.  Bad physics.


Plus there would be noise I'm guessing.  And there would have to be some way for the motor to interface with the gears/wheels... there's just no way it wouldn't be visible.  I'm not sure someone could even pull off an undetectable hidden motor in a racing bike today, let alone 20 years ago
 
2021-04-12 12:12:40 PM  

Ker_Thwap: The motor doping charge is stupid.  They didn't have the technology back then.  Even if they did, the entire frame of the bike would have to be a battery, just for one mountain climb.  So he'd have to lug around a massively heavy bike for the rest of the day.  Bad physics.


Pretty much this.  Even with modern battery tech, I'm still skeptical that motor-doping is actually a net win given that you couldn't possibly make a stealth battery that could last for even half of a stage and you're carrying that extra weight the whole time.
 
2021-04-12 12:13:18 PM  
Technology argument aside, Lance Armstrong showed us all that there was almost no bottom to the depth of his cheating and lying, so I'm not willing to rule anything out.

/but the technology argument is obviously compelling
 
2021-04-12 12:14:38 PM  

OldRod: Ker_Thwap: The motor doping charge is stupid.  They didn't have the technology back then.  Even if they did, the entire frame of the bike would have to be a battery, just for one mountain climb.  So he'd have to lug around a massively heavy bike for the rest of the day.  Bad physics.

Plus there would be noise I'm guessing.  And there would have to be some way for the motor to interface with the gears/wheels... there's just no way it wouldn't be visible.  I'm not sure someone could even pull off an undetectable hidden motor in a racing bike today, let alone 20 years ago


Well, a couple people got busted, but nobody at the TDF level.  Whether there was any net benefit though is pretty questionable
 
2021-04-12 12:14:44 PM  
Maybe it was just the wind?

Maybe he farted his way up the mountain?
 
2021-04-12 12:16:27 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-12 12:17:37 PM  

OptionC: OldRod: Ker_Thwap: The motor doping charge is stupid.  They didn't have the technology back then.  Even if they did, the entire frame of the bike would have to be a battery, just for one mountain climb.  So he'd have to lug around a massively heavy bike for the rest of the day.  Bad physics.

Plus there would be noise I'm guessing.  And there would have to be some way for the motor to interface with the gears/wheels... there's just no way it wouldn't be visible.  I'm not sure someone could even pull off an undetectable hidden motor in a racing bike today, let alone 20 years ago

Well, a couple people got busted, but nobody at the TDF level.  Whether there was any net benefit though is pretty questionable


I'm not an engineer, but I think a motor small enough to hide inside a bike probably wouldn't produce much of a boost.
 
2021-04-12 12:27:41 PM  
Most awkward cameo ever:

"Quit? You know, I was going to quit once when I was diagnosed with brain, lung and testicular cancer all at the same time. But with the love and support of my friends and family, I got back on the bike and won the Tour De France five years in a row. But I'm sure you've got a good reason to quit. So what are you dying from that's keeping you from the finals."


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-12 12:33:24 PM  

Badmoodman: Most awkward cameo ever:

"Quit? You know, I was going to quit once when I was diagnosed with brain, lung and testicular cancer all at the same time. But with the love and support of my friends and family, I got back on the bike and won the Tour De France five years in a row. But I'm sure you've got a good reason to quit. So what are you dying from that's keeping you from the finals."


[Fark user image 650x360]


I watched that movie on the Ocho.
 
2021-04-12 12:34:42 PM  

Ker_Thwap: The motor doping charge is stupid.  They didn't have the technology back then.  Even if they did, the entire frame of the bike would have to be a battery, just for one mountain climb.  So he'd have to lug around a massively heavy bike for the rest of the day.  Bad physics.


OldRod: Ker_Thwap: Plus there would be noise I'm guessing.  And there would have to be some way for the motor to interface with the gears/wheels... there's just no way it wouldn't be visible.  I'm not sure someone could even pull off an undetectable hidden motor in a racing bike today, let alone 20 years ago


OptionC: Ker_Thwap: Pretty much this.  Even with modern battery tech, I'm still skeptical that motor-doping is actually a net win given that you couldn't possibly make a stealth battery that could last for even half of a stage and you're carrying that extra weight the whole time.


I guess y'all aint cycling fans...

https://cyclingtips.com/2015/04/hidde​n​-motors-for-road-bikes-exist-heres-how​-they-work/
https://www.core77.com/posts/46229/Pr​o​-Racing-Cyclist-Caught-With-Motor-Hidd​en-Inside-Bike-Heres-How-She-Probably-​Did-It
https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/​a​20020879/this-is-what-it-s-like-to-rid​e-a-bike-with-a-hidden-motor/
https://electricbike-blog.com/2017/01/​30/its-doped-yo-turns-out-they-are-all​-just-a-bunch-of-ebike-cheater-cheater​-pumpkin-eaters/
 
2021-04-12 1:13:46 PM  

ShavedOrangutan: Ker_Thwap: The motor doping charge is stupid.  They didn't have the technology back then.  Even if they did, the entire frame of the bike would have to be a battery, just for one mountain climb.  So he'd have to lug around a massively heavy bike for the rest of the day.  Bad physics.

OldRod: Ker_Thwap: Plus there would be noise I'm guessing.  And there would have to be some way for the motor to interface with the gears/wheels... there's just no way it wouldn't be visible.  I'm not sure someone could even pull off an undetectable hidden motor in a racing bike today, let alone 20 years ago

OptionC: Ker_Thwap: Pretty much this.  Even with modern battery tech, I'm still skeptical that motor-doping is actually a net win given that you couldn't possibly make a stealth battery that could last for even half of a stage and you're carrying that extra weight the whole time.

I guess y'all aint cycling fans...

https://cyclingtips.com/2015/04/hidden​-motors-for-road-bikes-exist-heres-how​-they-work/
https://www.core77.com/posts/46229/Pro​-Racing-Cyclist-Caught-With-Motor-Hidd​en-Inside-Bike-Heres-How-She-Probably-​Did-It
https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a​20020879/this-is-what-it-s-like-to-rid​e-a-bike-with-a-hidden-motor/
https://electricbike-blog.com/2017/01/​30/its-doped-yo-turns-out-they-are-all​-just-a-bunch-of-ebike-cheater-cheater​-pumpkin-eaters/


Check the dates on your articles, and the dates when Lance was winning.
 
2021-04-12 1:14:45 PM  
OldRod: I'm not an engineer, but I think a motor small enough to hide inside a bike probably wouldn't produce much of a boost.

"I'm not an X, but ..."

Yeah, that sentence construction never ends well :)
 
2021-04-12 2:11:26 PM  

Ker_Thwap: ShavedOrangutan: Ker_Thwap: The motor doping charge is stupid.  They didn't have the technology back then.  Even if they did, the entire frame of the bike would have to be a battery, just for one mountain climb.  So he'd have to lug around a massively heavy bike for the rest of the day.  Bad physics.

OldRod: Ker_Thwap: Plus there would be noise I'm guessing.  And there would have to be some way for the motor to interface with the gears/wheels... there's just no way it wouldn't be visible.  I'm not sure someone could even pull off an undetectable hidden motor in a racing bike today, let alone 20 years ago

OptionC: Ker_Thwap: Pretty much this.  Even with modern battery tech, I'm still skeptical that motor-doping is actually a net win given that you couldn't possibly make a stealth battery that could last for even half of a stage and you're carrying that extra weight the whole time.

I guess y'all aint cycling fans...

https://cyclingtips.com/2015/04/hidden​-motors-for-road-bikes-exist-heres-how​-they-work/
https://www.core77.com/posts/46229/Pro​-Racing-Cyclist-Caught-With-Motor-Hidd​en-Inside-Bike-Heres-How-She-Probably-​Did-It
https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a​20020879/this-is-what-it-s-like-to-rid​e-a-bike-with-a-hidden-motor/
https://electricbike-blog.com/2017/01/​30/its-doped-yo-turns-out-they-are-all​-just-a-bunch-of-ebike-cheater-cheater​-pumpkin-eaters/

Check the dates on your articles, and the dates when Lance was winning.


FTA: The Frenchman (the accuser) has a book out....
 
2021-04-12 2:50:42 PM  

Ker_Thwap: ShavedOrangutan: Ker_Thwap: The motor doping charge is stupid.  They didn't have the technology back then.  Even if they did, the entire frame of the bike would have to be a battery, just for one mountain climb.  So he'd have to lug around a massively heavy bike for the rest of the day.  Bad physics.

OldRod: Ker_Thwap: Plus there would be noise I'm guessing.  And there would have to be some way for the motor to interface with the gears/wheels... there's just no way it wouldn't be visible.  I'm not sure someone could even pull off an undetectable hidden motor in a racing bike today, let alone 20 years ago

OptionC: Ker_Thwap: Pretty much this.  Even with modern battery tech, I'm still skeptical that motor-doping is actually a net win given that you couldn't possibly make a stealth battery that could last for even half of a stage and you're carrying that extra weight the whole time.

I guess y'all aint cycling fans...

https://cyclingtips.com/2015/04/hidden​-motors-for-road-bikes-exist-heres-how​-they-work/
https://www.core77.com/posts/46229/Pro​-Racing-Cyclist-Caught-With-Motor-Hidd​en-Inside-Bike-Heres-How-She-Probably-​Did-It
https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a​20020879/this-is-what-it-s-like-to-rid​e-a-bike-with-a-hidden-motor/
https://electricbike-blog.com/2017/01/​30/its-doped-yo-turns-out-they-are-all​-just-a-bunch-of-ebike-cheater-cheater​-pumpkin-eaters/

Check the dates on your articles, and the dates when Lance was winning.


Here's the inventor claiming he got $2 mil to develop and not resell them:  https://cyclingtips.com/2017/01/hidd​en​-motor-inventor-says-he-received-2-mil​lion-in-1998-for-exclusivity-deal/

CIA had flash drives in the 1980's.  Just because it isn't widely available doesn't mean it doesn't exist or it's not in use.
 
2021-04-12 3:59:16 PM  
The Freakanomics interview with him cemented my opinion.  He accepts zero responsibility for everything he's done.  It was quite remarkable what a terrible person he was in that interview.
 
2021-04-12 4:09:35 PM  
Look, I think Armstrong is as big a dick as anyone else does, and think what he did to the people that told the truth was reprehensible, but when he was winning, he was under a microscope, especially by the French, for having the audacity to win the Tour de France when he wasn't even European. The fact of the matter is that while he was "cheating", he was doing it at an undetectable level, as opposed to the next half dozen riders behind him, that were doping at detectable levels. That's why they couldn't give the win to the runner-up. Or the next. Or the next... screw it, there was no winner those years.
Lance is still an asshole.
 
2021-04-12 4:11:03 PM  

ShavedOrangutan: Ker_Thwap: ShavedOrangutan: Ker_Thwap: The motor doping charge is stupid.  They didn't have the technology back then.  Even if they did, the entire frame of the bike would have to be a battery, just for one mountain climb.  So he'd have to lug around a massively heavy bike for the rest of the day.  Bad physics.

OldRod: Ker_Thwap: Plus there would be noise I'm guessing.  And there would have to be some way for the motor to interface with the gears/wheels... there's just no way it wouldn't be visible.  I'm not sure someone could even pull off an undetectable hidden motor in a racing bike today, let alone 20 years ago

OptionC: Ker_Thwap: Pretty much this.  Even with modern battery tech, I'm still skeptical that motor-doping is actually a net win given that you couldn't possibly make a stealth battery that could last for even half of a stage and you're carrying that extra weight the whole time.

I guess y'all aint cycling fans...

https://cyclingtips.com/2015/04/hidden​-motors-for-road-bikes-exist-heres-how​-they-work/
https://www.core77.com/posts/46229/Pro​-Racing-Cyclist-Caught-With-Motor-Hidd​en-Inside-Bike-Heres-How-She-Probably-​Did-It
https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a​20020879/this-is-what-it-s-like-to-rid​e-a-bike-with-a-hidden-motor/
https://electricbike-blog.com/2017/01/​30/its-doped-yo-turns-out-they-are-all​-just-a-bunch-of-ebike-cheater-cheater​-pumpkin-eaters/

Check the dates on your articles, and the dates when Lance was winning.

Here's the inventor claiming he got $2 mil to develop and not resell them:  https://cyclingtips.com/2017/01/hidde​n-motor-inventor-says-he-received-2-mi​llion-in-1998-for-exclusivity-deal/

CIA had flash drives in the 1980's.  Just because it isn't widely available doesn't mean it doesn't exist or it's not in use.


The link you posted, again links to something from 2017.

Battery tech wasn't there in 1999, both in power density and delivery systems. They also didn't have the miniature, high torque electric engines that we have today. Back then power density was around 100W/kg, so you are talking diminished returns in weight to power gained as well. If you go to the end of his win streak in 2005, the tech still wasn't there yet. We have made gigantic improvements to batteries and engine design in the years since.
 
2021-04-12 4:14:49 PM  
Cheating so brazenly takes ball.
 
2021-04-12 4:32:50 PM  

phimuskapsi: ShavedOrangutan: Ker_Thwap: ShavedOrangutan: Ker_Thwap: The motor doping charge is stupid.  They didn't have the technology back then.  Even if they did, the entire frame of the bike would have to be a battery, just for one mountain climb.  So he'd have to lug around a massively heavy bike for the rest of the day.  Bad physics.

OldRod: Ker_Thwap: Plus there would be noise I'm guessing.  And there would have to be some way for the motor to interface with the gears/wheels... there's just no way it wouldn't be visible.  I'm not sure someone could even pull off an undetectable hidden motor in a racing bike today, let alone 20 years ago

OptionC: Ker_Thwap: Pretty much this.  Even with modern battery tech, I'm still skeptical that motor-doping is actually a net win given that you couldn't possibly make a stealth battery that could last for even half of a stage and you're carrying that extra weight the whole time.

I guess y'all aint cycling fans...

Here's the inventor claiming he got $2 mil to develop and not resell them:  https://cyclingtips.com/2017/01/hidde​n-motor-inventor-says-he-received-2-mi​llion-in-1998-for-exclusivity-deal/

CIA had flash drives in the 1980's.  Just because it isn't widely available doesn't mean it doesn't exist or it's not in use.

The link you posted, again links to something from 2017.

Battery tech wasn't there in 1999, both in power density and delivery systems. They also didn't have the miniature, high torque electri ...


Did... did you read the article or just look at the published date?

"Speaking two days in advance of a 60 Minutes special on the use of technological fraud, or mechanical doping, in cycling, the inventor of the hidden motors has said such devices may have been in the pro peloton for almost 20 years.
Istvan Varjas has told 60 Minutes that he designed a motor in 1998 and was offered nearly $2 million for a ten year exclusivity deal. Under that agreement, he agreed not to work on such motors, nor to sell them or speak of them."

As for the power issue, it doesn't take much, even a few watts on top of what the cyclist is producing can push an already great cyclist (who's doping in other ways) ahead of the competition at the right moment.
 
2021-04-12 4:45:53 PM  

OldRod: Ker_Thwap: The motor doping charge is stupid.  They didn't have the technology back then.  Even if they did, the entire frame of the bike would have to be a battery, just for one mountain climb.  So he'd have to lug around a massively heavy bike for the rest of the day.  Bad physics.

Plus there would be noise I'm guessing.  And there would have to be some way for the motor to interface with the gears/wheels... there's just no way it wouldn't be visible.  I'm not sure someone could even pull off an undetectable hidden motor in a racing bike today, let alone 20 years ago


They've caught a few in recent years and there are people that make them, but at the competition level they are suing thermal cameras , magnets and x-rays on the bikes so its's nearly impossible to get away with these days
 
2021-04-12 4:48:29 PM  
Doping is so ubiquitous in cycling that even when people cheat by other means it's still considered "doping".
 
2021-04-12 5:03:51 PM  

OldRod: OptionC: OldRod: Ker_Thwap: The motor doping charge is stupid.  They didn't have the technology back then.  Even if they did, the entire frame of the bike would have to be a battery, just for one mountain climb.  So he'd have to lug around a massively heavy bike for the rest of the day.  Bad physics.

Plus there would be noise I'm guessing.  And there would have to be some way for the motor to interface with the gears/wheels... there's just no way it wouldn't be visible.  I'm not sure someone could even pull off an undetectable hidden motor in a racing bike today, let alone 20 years ago

Well, a couple people got busted, but nobody at the TDF level.  Whether there was any net benefit though is pretty questionable

I'm not an engineer, but I think a motor small enough to hide inside a bike probably wouldn't produce much of a boost.


Don't need much.
Sprint finishes often have less than a second between 1st and 5th place.
On a climb, 60 seconds of not having to actually exert while the guy chasing you does, can easily make him crack.
They weigh the bikes before and after the race to make sure they weigh the same. IE: you didn't fake a mechanical to get on a lighter bike.
There is no upper weight limit, just a minimum.
 
2021-04-12 6:13:22 PM  
The next shoe to drop:
sphero-media-sphero-prod.s3.amazonaws.comView Full Size
 
2021-04-12 7:42:38 PM  
In hindsight, the Harley-Davidson sponsorship was a tad suspicious.
 
2021-04-12 7:58:20 PM  
To quote Maya Angelou "Who gives a fark? It's cycling."
 
2021-04-12 9:26:06 PM  

OldRod: OptionC: OldRod: Ker_Thwap: The motor doping charge is stupid.  They didn't have the technology back then.  Even if they did, the entire frame of the bike would have to be a battery, just for one mountain climb.  So he'd have to lug around a massively heavy bike for the rest of the day.  Bad physics.

Plus there would be noise I'm guessing.  And there would have to be some way for the motor to interface with the gears/wheels... there's just no way it wouldn't be visible.  I'm not sure someone could even pull off an undetectable hidden motor in a racing bike today, let alone 20 years ago

Well, a couple people got busted, but nobody at the TDF level.  Whether there was any net benefit though is pretty questionable

I'm not an engineer, but I think a motor small enough to hide inside a bike probably wouldn't produce much of a boost.


They don't need much of a boost, just an edge. At that level, a small amount of help is huge.


"Absolutely not," he said when asked if doping doctor Michele Ferrari ever offered him a motorised bike. If he would ever have considered using one, Armstrong said, "of course not."

Pretty much how he answered the doping questions.
 
2021-04-13 4:28:36 AM  
I guarantee you that there's 40 y/o fatty masters out there using them to hang with the 20 y/o on club rides.
 
2021-04-13 9:07:53 AM  

ShavedOrangutan: Istvan Varjas has told 60 Minutes that he designed a motor in 1998 and was offered nearly $2 million for a ten year exclusivity deal. Under that agreement, he agreed not to work on such motors, nor to sell them or speak of them."

As for the power issue, it doesn't take much, even a few watts on top of what the cyclist is producing can push an already great cyclist (who's doping in other ways) ahead of the competition at the right moment.


Saying that it could be done, and actually doing it are two different things. In pro cycling the first reported era of mechanical doping started in 2004, which is pretty much post-Lance. The first person caught was in 2010. 

Thing is, in order for it to be effective, it needs to provide a lot of power. Pro Cyclists can average 400W an hour on a bike, with bursts up to 900W. 100W battery + engine won't do a whole lot in those circumstances.
 
2021-04-13 11:34:13 AM  

SpectroBoy: [Fark user image image 850x531]


That's just crazy the amount of effort and technology that goes into disguising the motor.
 
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