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(Bloomberg)   With power tools, bikes, racks of sporting goods, workshop benches, beer fridges, tiki torches in the corners, and maybe an ICE car or two, is there even room to install high-juice power ports in your garage for the coming EVs?   (bloomberg.com) divider line
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349 clicks; posted to STEM » on 12 Apr 2021 at 12:36 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-04-12 12:06:43 PM  
Ours was outdoor rated and mounted in front of a garage in the backyard for reasons. However, it took about the same space as a fire extinguisher. With an accessory, these things could easily be mounted on the ceiling, high up on the wall with a retractable cable mechanism. Can the grid handle it? Can your already installed panel handle it? Ours (my ex's) had room. Apartments? Man, that's a bigger headache. Even level one ( 20 to 30 AMP DEDICATED home outlet circuit) could present all sorts of problems. Mainly in retrofit and ungated access parking. Who pays? Security concerns? Pedestrian access over cables if parking "heads in" to a walkway.
 
2021-04-12 12:40:14 PM  
The previous owner of my house had a welding business so there's a 220v 50 amp circuit in my garage already.   I'm holding off on an EV until I can get one that's AWD and gets 300" miles on a charge.  If that happens in the next few years, I'll possibly trade my 11 Subaru WRX as an EV would still get 0-60 MPH in less than 5 seconds, but it won't have that rumble that the boxer engine puts out.

/stage 1 mod, tuned by CamTuning.
//have an older pickup, wife has an SUV
///three slashies and a 3 car garage FTW
 
2021-04-12 12:47:04 PM  
Another anti-EV article on Fark. I thought you Farkers were supposed to be forward thinking.
 
2021-04-12 12:48:45 PM  

mybluemake: Ours was outdoor rated and mounted in front of a garage in the backyard for reasons. However, it took about the same space as a fire extinguisher. With an accessory, these things could easily be mounted on the ceiling, high up on the wall with a retractable cable mechanism. Can the grid handle it? Can your already installed panel handle it? Ours (my ex's) had room. Apartments? Man, that's a bigger headache. Even level one ( 20 to 30 AMP DEDICATED home outlet circuit) could present all sorts of problems. Mainly in retrofit and ungated access parking. Who pays? Security concerns? Pedestrian access over cables if parking "heads in" to a walkway.


Especially considering the energy demands are already spiking the most when everyone gets home from work, this will only exacerbate the current trend. Need more small scale, distributed storage...
 
2021-04-12 12:49:39 PM  

oa330_man: The previous owner of my house had a welding business so there's a 220v 50 amp circuit in my garage already.   I'm holding off on an EV until I can get one that's AWD and gets 300" miles on a charge.  If that happens in the next few years, I'll possibly trade my 11 Subaru WRX as an EV would still get 0-60 MPH in less than 5 seconds, but it won't have that rumble that the boxer engine puts out.

/stage 1 mod, tuned by CamTuning.
//have an older pickup, wife has an SUV
///three slashies and a 3 car garage FTW



Why is the sound of the engine so important to you?  I'm baffled/fascinated by that.

An engine that puts out no noise whatsoever is far more impressive than one that grumbles and rumbles.  The engineer in me just hears wasted joules.
 
2021-04-12 12:51:01 PM  

aarond12: Another anti-EV article on Fark. I thought you Farkers were supposed to be forward thinking.


You're unable to differentiate reasonable concerns about the execution of a plan and "anti"; there's a wee bit more nuance here.
 
2021-04-12 12:51:24 PM  

mybluemake: Ours was outdoor rated and mounted in front of a garage in the backyard for reasons. However, it took about the same space as a fire extinguisher. With an accessory, these things could easily be mounted on the ceiling, high up on the wall with a retractable cable mechanism. Can the grid handle it? Can your already installed panel handle it? Ours (my ex's) had room. Apartments? Man, that's a bigger headache. Even level one ( 20 to 30 AMP DEDICATED home outlet circuit) could present all sorts of problems. Mainly in retrofit and ungated access parking. Who pays? Security concerns? Pedestrian access over cables if parking "heads in" to a walkway.


Yeah, it's going to be very difficult for poor and working class households (and their slumlords, as applicable) to afford the necessary mods.
 
2021-04-12 12:53:50 PM  
There are several states that offer tax credits or reimbursement for installing a EV charger at your house.  I looked into it and the box itself would be basically free, but there'd have been some amount of labor cost likely not covered to get a dedicated circuit from the box so I ended up not doing it.

Instead I just use the lame trickle charger plugged into a normal wall outlet.  Charging my e-golf to about 130 miles from 50 or so takes 12 hours.  I only use it for commuting and local travel, so it is not a big deal to just plug it in overnight and have a full charge the next day, but if I have more than normal driving, I'll find a level 2 charger whereever I am going and top it off while I'm there for a couple bucks.
 
2021-04-12 12:55:44 PM  

oa330_man: I'm holding off on an EV until I can get one that's AWD and gets 300" miles on a charge.


There are several Tesla models with over 300 miles range and AWD. Or by "get" did you mean "afford"?
 
2021-04-12 1:06:20 PM  
Planning on getting solar power installed on my house this year.  I will make sure we get the garage set up to accommodate an electric vehicle charger even though I don't currently own one.
 
2021-04-12 1:07:14 PM  
I would need a $10K panel upgrade and then ripping out the ceiling in the basement to run power over to the garage...so not happening any time soon.

However, a neighbor of mine has the Tesla 3 and he just plugs it into the regular old socket outside. It take 8+ hours to charge but he does that over night so he doesn't care.
 
2021-04-12 1:10:04 PM  

Marksrevenge: oa330_man: I'm holding off on an EV until I can get one that's AWD and gets 300" miles on a charge.

There are several Tesla models with over 300 miles range and AWD. Or by "get" did you mean "afford"?


I'm waiting for a electric truck. I don't take it more than 200 miles at a stretch and so long as it can haul full sheets of plywood and a horse trailer, it's all I need.
 
2021-04-12 1:21:42 PM  
Not only does my garage have its own power panel, there are already two 220v/40amp circuits in the right places for charging stations.  The prior owner ran a piano repair business and had a couple 10-ton hoists.

/own TSLA
//not interested in FSD or screen-dependent vehicles
///hoping the Kia lasts another 3-4 years
 
2021-04-12 1:27:50 PM  
I will not have the panel space to have a dedicated 220 drop for my garage.  Might have to invest in another panel because daddy wants a welder.
 
2021-04-12 1:54:13 PM  
Garage?

static.ffx.ioView Full Size



- Laughs in Urban
 
2021-04-12 2:07:13 PM  

FLMountainMan: mybluemake: Ours was outdoor rated and mounted in front of a garage in the backyard for reasons. However, it took about the same space as a fire extinguisher. With an accessory, these things could easily be mounted on the ceiling, high up on the wall with a retractable cable mechanism. Can the grid handle it? Can your already installed panel handle it? Ours (my ex's) had room. Apartments? Man, that's a bigger headache. Even level one ( 20 to 30 AMP DEDICATED home outlet circuit) could present all sorts of problems. Mainly in retrofit and ungated access parking. Who pays? Security concerns? Pedestrian access over cables if parking "heads in" to a walkway.

Yeah, it's going to be very difficult for poor and working class households (and their slumlords, as applicable) to afford the necessary mods.


If you're being sincere, yes. If you're not, still yes. I can buy a used Leaf with 10 or 11 bars (somewhat degraded battery but still 60+mile range) for less than $5000. If I had a place to charge at home in my very nice suburban apartment complex, I'd consider it. Until then, I'll keep my unkillable aged Sentra that I have driven just enough this year to hopefully prevent degradation due to disuse
 
2021-04-12 2:22:45 PM  

mybluemake: FLMountainMan: mybluemake: Ours was outdoor rated and mounted in front of a garage in the backyard for reasons. However, it took about the same space as a fire extinguisher. With an accessory, these things could easily be mounted on the ceiling, high up on the wall with a retractable cable mechanism. Can the grid handle it? Can your already installed panel handle it? Ours (my ex's) had room. Apartments? Man, that's a bigger headache. Even level one ( 20 to 30 AMP DEDICATED home outlet circuit) could present all sorts of problems. Mainly in retrofit and ungated access parking. Who pays? Security concerns? Pedestrian access over cables if parking "heads in" to a walkway.

Yeah, it's going to be very difficult for poor and working class households (and their slumlords, as applicable) to afford the necessary mods.

If you're being sincere, yes. If you're not, still yes. I can buy a used Leaf with 10 or 11 bars (somewhat degraded battery but still 60+mile range) for less than $5000. If I had a place to charge at home in my very nice suburban apartment complex, I'd consider it. Until then, I'll keep my unkillable aged Sentra that I have driven just enough this year to hopefully prevent degradation due to disuse


I'm being very serious.  I plan on making my next car an EV, but I can afford a few hundred bucks of electrical work.  Most cannot.  I think the market (and the subsidies) will eventually take care of it but it will need to be a gradual process.
 
2021-04-12 2:33:28 PM  

FrancoFile: Why is the sound of the engine so important to you?  I'm baffled/fascinated by that.

An engine that puts out no noise whatsoever is far more impressive than one that grumbles and rumbles.  The engineer in me just hears wasted joules.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-12 2:40:43 PM  

Autoerotic Defenestration: FrancoFile: Why is the sound of the engine so important to you?  I'm baffled/fascinated by that.

An engine that puts out no noise whatsoever is far more impressive than one that grumbles and rumbles.  The engineer in me just hears wasted joules.

[Fark user image 668x374]



You joke, but engineers see beauty just as much as you do.  We see a beautiful bridge, and appreciate it more, because we know what it took to have superficial beauty as well as structural strength.

Like Newton, we see beauty in calculus and physics.  Maxwell's Equations are as wonderful and harmonious as an Elizabeth Barrett Browning sonnet.  We are more fun at college parties, because when we toss beer kegs off the porch, they land for maximum damage and/or surprise in the lawn.

I know an engineer who works for one of the big 3 and is in charge of acoustically tuning several product lines.  He hates it when his bosses tell him to make it louder or more discordant.
 
2021-04-12 2:51:12 PM  

FrancoFile: An engine that puts out no noise whatsoever is far more impressive than one that grumbles and rumbles.  The engineer in me just hears wasted joules.


Sadly, inner city bike enthusiast losers have created a situation where the EV manufacturers are required to waste electricity to force their vehicles to emit a sound through a speaker while on because they are too stupid  and arrogant to look before they change lanes.

Friend just bought a Kona Electric - sounds like a UFO. Morons complaining will be the cause of vast KWH of wasted electricity.
 
2021-04-12 2:59:57 PM  
A neighbor of mine prior to my move had the full electric BMW i3.  The low rolling resistance tires were about the noisiest damn things I could imagine.  If you couldn't hear that thing coming on those tires, you had to have a notable level of hearing loss or had earbuds in.
 
2021-04-12 3:00:43 PM  

FLMountainMan: mybluemake: Ours was outdoor rated and mounted in front of a garage in the backyard for reasons. However, it took about the same space as a fire extinguisher. With an accessory, these things could easily be mounted on the ceiling, high up on the wall with a retractable cable mechanism. Can the grid handle it? Can your already installed panel handle it? Ours (my ex's) had room. Apartments? Man, that's a bigger headache. Even level one ( 20 to 30 AMP DEDICATED home outlet circuit) could present all sorts of problems. Mainly in retrofit and ungated access parking. Who pays? Security concerns? Pedestrian access over cables if parking "heads in" to a walkway.

Yeah, it's going to be very difficult for poor and working class households (and their slumlords, as applicable) to afford the necessary mods.


It's not that difficult, half a cup days work, at most
 
2021-04-12 3:02:43 PM  

FrancoFile: Autoerotic Defenestration: FrancoFile: Why is the sound of the engine so important to you?  I'm baffled/fascinated by that.

An engine that puts out no noise whatsoever is far more impressive than one that grumbles and rumbles.  The engineer in me just hears wasted joules.

[Fark user image 668x374]


You joke, but engineers see beauty just as much as you do.  We see a beautiful bridge, and appreciate it more, because we know what it took to have superficial beauty as well as structural strength.

Like Newton, we see beauty in calculus and physics.  Maxwell's Equations are as wonderful and harmonious as an Elizabeth Barrett Browning sonnet.  We are more fun at college parties, because when we toss beer kegs off the porch, they land for maximum damage and/or surprise in the lawn.

I know an engineer who works for one of the big 3 and is in charge of acoustically tuning several product lines.  He hates it when his bosses tell him to make it louder or more discordant.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-12 3:14:09 PM  

chitownmike: FLMountainMan: mybluemake: Ours was outdoor rated and mounted in front of a garage in the backyard for reasons. However, it took about the same space as a fire extinguisher. With an accessory, these things could easily be mounted on the ceiling, high up on the wall with a retractable cable mechanism. Can the grid handle it? Can your already installed panel handle it? Ours (my ex's) had room. Apartments? Man, that's a bigger headache. Even level one ( 20 to 30 AMP DEDICATED home outlet circuit) could present all sorts of problems. Mainly in retrofit and ungated access parking. Who pays? Security concerns? Pedestrian access over cables if parking "heads in" to a walkway.

Yeah, it's going to be very difficult for poor and working class households (and their slumlords, as applicable) to afford the necessary mods.

It's not that difficult, half a days work, at most


Fxt for me
 
2021-04-12 3:22:08 PM  
If you are buying with cash, the charger is no big deal.  If you are financing, perhaps automakers could include the cost of the charger with the vehicle so vehicle and charger could be financed together?
 
2021-04-12 3:38:13 PM  
Need more room in the garage?


Fark user imageView Full Size


Turn up the heat.   That'll take care of the ICE car.
 
2021-04-12 3:48:12 PM  
My last "new" car was a used Prius plug-in. A 220V/20A outlet would have required a new box, but 110/20 works adequately for overnight (3.5h) charging. Something with longer range would require more amps or more time, though.

We'll probably do the box upgrade when we buy a new electric.
 
2021-04-12 4:12:20 PM  
I'd prolly need a bigger (or second) electrical box, but space won't be a problem.

Fark user imageView Full Size

Bit up by the garage door is a small woodworking station. Just mostly hand tools and movable workbenches right now.


Fark user imageView Full Size


Fark user imageView Full Size


A bunch of that stuff under the kayaks in that last pic is on it's way out. Lawn crap is towards the garage door. Got plans to clean up that side with some wooden racks for the boats and better organized storage, but lumber is stupid expensive right now. So it's on hold.

Planning on replacing the hot water heater with an on demand system when it dies. Probably have a second box put in when I do that and will make sure it can do a car too.
 
2021-04-12 5:28:34 PM  
1. Tract home built in 1956.
2. Garage was enclosed in the '70s by original owners.
3. Addition built in the '80s by subsequent owners.
4. Recent discovery of haphazard electrical work discourages additional work.

So, no, I won't be adding EV facilities to this nightmare until I can get a) five to six figures' worth of remodeling money, and b) a competent architect & GC to review the existing structure, including electrical & gas work.
 
2021-04-12 5:38:00 PM  

FormlessOne: 1. Tract home built in 1956.
2. Garage was enclosed in the '70s by original owners.
3. Addition built in the '80s by subsequent owners.
4. Recent discovery of haphazard electrical work discourages additional work.

So, no, I won't be adding EV facilities to this nightmare until I can get a) five to six figures' worth of remodeling money, and b) a competent architect & GC to review the existing structure, including electrical & gas work.


Sounds so much like my last house.  Except mine was build in 1955 and didn't have the addition.  There was no plausible way I was going to be able to make the house into what I wanted for less money than buying a different place.  I did the math.  It was discouraging and something I expect to see repeated for a LOT of folks in older, existing construction.
 
2021-04-12 5:39:49 PM  

Myk-House of El: FormlessOne: 1. Tract home built in 1956.
2. Garage was enclosed in the '70s by original owners.
3. Addition built in the '80s by subsequent owners.
4. Recent discovery of haphazard electrical work discourages additional work.

So, no, I won't be adding EV facilities to this nightmare until I can get a) five to six figures' worth of remodeling money, and b) a competent architect & GC to review the existing structure, including electrical & gas work.

Sounds so much like my last house.  Except mine was build in 1955 and didn't have the addition.  There was no plausible way I was going to be able to make the house into what I wanted for less money than buying a different place.  I did the math.  It was discouraging and something I expect to see repeated for a LOT of folks in older, existing construction.


One of the first things I look at when checking out houses is the circuit breaker panel, and any exposed wiring I can see in the basement.  And I always carry a tape measure with me.

Realtors don't know what to make of me.
 
2021-04-12 7:11:37 PM  

Saiga410: I will not have the panel space to have a dedicated 220 drop for my garage.  Might have to invest in another panel because daddy wants a welder.


Yeah my panel was full up too.  I bet it would be stupid expensive to upgrade / add another.  I wired a 220v to the same breaker my dryer is on.  Just dont use both at once, or it trips!

/totally safe
//will unhook should I sell the house lol
 
2021-04-12 8:24:57 PM  
mybluemake: ...Even level one ( 20 to 30 AMP DEDICATED home outlet circuit) could present all sorts of problems.

Why?  The 120v chargers are pretty much limited to 12 amps for a continuous load on L1.  Not 20-30.

We have both a Level 2 and a Level 1 charger in our garage for our EV and 95% of the time we use the Level 1 charger because it is more convenient (in our situation).  The only thing we had to change was to upgrade the 120v outlet to a "Hospital Grade" outlet ($5) from the cheaper Contractor Grade one ($1.50) that was there.  Can charge at Max allowed overnight with no issue.
 
2021-04-12 9:22:01 PM  

Johnson: mybluemake: ...Even level one ( 20 to 30 AMP DEDICATED home outlet circuit) could present all sorts of problems.

Why?  The 120v chargers are pretty much limited to 12 amps for a continuous load on L1.  Not 20-30.

We have both a Level 2 and a Level 1 charger in our garage for our EV and 95% of the time we use the Level 1 charger because it is more convenient (in our situation).  The only thing we had to change was to upgrade the 120v outlet to a "Hospital Grade" outlet ($5) from the cheaper Contractor Grade one ($1.50) that was there.  Can charge at Max allowed overnight with no issue.


12 to 16 amp, and safety first. I believe the rule of thumb is 80% of full capacity for safety. We tried it in what was appeared to be an otherwise unused circuit in a freestanding garage built a few years before my ex bought her house. It would trip at some point, but irregularly, leaving you farked in the morning (Astro van to the rescue for her, ORCA transit card for me). As I wanted another 220 circuit for my compressor and there was other construction going on, she opted to get the hottest level 2 she could find to future proof for larger capacity battery options on a later EV. Level 2 charging at home solved every problem but trips to Portland or Whidbey Island. I think she is on 2nd Leaf now. I'm several states away but she converted me. That Leaf was a great city car.
 
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