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(Car and Driver)   Car & Driver magazine advocates for a higher state-level gas tax, wins today's brass balls award for taking a stand their advertisers might dislike   (caranddriver.com) divider line
    More: Misc, Corporate tax, Taxation, Tax, Taxation in the United States, ideal tax, excise tax, Value added tax, Income tax  
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961 clicks; posted to Politics » and Business » on 11 Apr 2021 at 9:53 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-04-11 8:40:04 PM  
I like that we pretend electricity is not taxed. It is most places. The problem is not the revenue but how the revenue is disbursed.
 
2021-04-11 9:52:46 PM  
Federal needs to go way TF higher too.

/negative externalities WRT air pollutants don't magically stop at borders and think to themselves 'gee, am i doing the right thing here'
 
2021-04-11 10:01:37 PM  
How wonderful...fark over people with smaller incomes.

/Has is already too expensive in my state.
 
2021-04-11 10:03:50 PM  
But if we raise the tax gas and fix the roads, what will happen to suspension and alignment shops?
 
2021-04-11 10:06:52 PM  

edmo: I like that we pretend electricity is not taxed. It is most places. The problem is not the revenue but how the revenue is disbursed.


As well as "fees" that gasoline does not have
 
2021-04-11 10:09:34 PM  
I'm okay with raising the gas tax.

Stomps the poors even harder than we already do. They need to pony up for all those externalities they use on their drive to their $7.25/hr jobs.

/s
 
2021-04-11 10:17:35 PM  

gameshowhost: Federal needs to go way TF higher too.

/negative externalities WRT air pollutants don't magically stop at borders and think to themselves 'gee, am i doing the right thing here'


Everybody is very worried about Global Warming, but nobody seems to realize they'll have to pay for it.
 
2021-04-11 10:20:21 PM  
I get the point of course, but this truly would have a weighted, adverse effect on the working class. Let me put it this way, when my company had to buy a new building due to our growth, the #1 considered factor on suitability was proximity to where our officers lived. Anecdotal of course, but if that isn't the perfect example, I don't know what is.
 
2021-04-11 10:21:47 PM  
Subby is not familiar with C&D.  They've always been unafraid of pissing off advertisers.

I remember back when gasoline was 1.10 in the 1980s... and 44 cents of that was State and Federal tax.  Could you imagine the shiatstorm of whining if fuel taxes were raised to $2.50/gallon to keep up?
 
2021-04-11 10:23:41 PM  

The_Sponge: How wonderful...fark over people with smaller incomes.

/Has is already too expensive in my state.


*gas, not has
 
2021-04-11 10:27:16 PM  
do gas stations advertise in car and driver?
i thought it would all be just dating services and incel support groups
 
2021-04-11 10:29:12 PM  

whatshisname: gameshowhost: Federal needs to go way TF higher too.

/negative externalities WRT air pollutants don't magically stop at borders and think to themselves 'gee, am i doing the right thing here'

Everybody is very worried about Global Warming, but nobody seems to realize they'll have to pay for it.


Everybody that I know, that is worried about Global Warming, fully realizes that it will be expensive, and they will have to pay for it. The problem is that the people that don't care about it, refuse to pay anything to try and correct it. We should tell them it causes voter fraud or something.
 
2021-04-11 10:35:20 PM  

moothemagiccow: do gas stations advertise in car and driver?
i thought it would all be just dating services and incel support groups


I used to have a subscription, way back when I thought I could afford a lightly used car, and wanted to know what was good when it was new. I don't remember any ads like you mention, but got a kick (not really) out of all the Passport and other radar and lidar detector ads.
 
2021-04-11 10:35:29 PM  

Mister Peejay: I remember back when gasoline was 1.10 in the 1980s... and 44 cents of that was State and Federal tax.  Could you imagine the shiatstorm of whining if fuel taxes were raised to $2.50/gallon to keep up?


FTA, The federal tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents set back in 1993.
 
2021-04-11 10:35:35 PM  
Stabilizing gas prices could be a way of raising the gas tax and taking the sting out of rising prices in the long run. If gas taxes fluctuated so that gas was always $4.00/gallon, regardless of market pricing, it would be easier to budget for the expense. Spikes would not hurt the poor as drastically and low market prices would fatten coffers. It might also incentivize the purchase of more fuel efficient vehicles rather than the boom-bust cycle where everyone buys trucks because they think gas will always be cheap then can't afford to feed them when it's not.

Or we could just ignore the problem and pretend electric car owners will save us. That's working, isn't it?
 
2021-04-11 10:35:35 PM  

moothemagiccow: do gas stations advertise in car and driver?
i thought it would all be just dating services and incel support groups


You do realize that car groups are some of the most diverse groups of people in terms of socioeconomic and gender, right?

You should try taking off your bias glasses for a second and actually meet some people in them.

Hispanic, black, Asian, white, men, women, gay, straight, transgender, truck dudes, Honda kids, hydraulics, low riders, sound systems, dub wheels ...

The ability to own and modify your car in whatever way you can come up with is entirely empowering to everyone involved.

Try harder, fool.
 
2021-04-11 10:45:40 PM  
3 of my 4 cars are gas hogs. I'm getting rid of my most fuel efficient one and replacing it with another gas hog.

Totally fine if they up the gas tax here.
 
2021-04-11 10:48:09 PM  

Mister Peejay: Could you imagine the shiatstorm of whining if fuel taxes were raised to $2.50/gallon to keep up?


So don't raise it that far.  Start with something incremental.  Let's go with something simple like .25.  That's a lot of money from an incremental change when you're selling almost 400million gallons per day for what would be around a 2.5% increase in tax (based on today's average price per gallon)
 
2021-04-11 10:48:31 PM  

iron_city_ap: 3 of my 4 cars are gas hogs. I'm getting rid of my most fuel efficient one and replacing it with another gas hog.

Totally fine if they up the gas tax here.


You're fine with higher taxes and the government wasting that money?
 
2021-04-11 10:49:08 PM  

HoodRich White Man: I get the point of course, but this truly would have a weighted, adverse effect on the working class. Let me put it this way, when my company had to buy a new building due to our growth, the #1 considered factor on suitability was proximity to where our officers lived. Anecdotal of course, but if that isn't the perfect example, I don't know what is.


Location of the CEOs home is the number one correlated factor when a business moves in most industries. I told people not to bother with the Amazon RFP because HQ2 was going in the DC area, since that's where Jeff Bezos spends most of his time.
 
2021-04-11 10:52:39 PM  

Wanderlusting: moothemagiccow: do gas stations advertise in car and driver?
i thought it would all be just dating services and incel support groups

You do realize that car groups are some of the most diverse groups of people in terms of socioeconomic and gender, right?

You should try taking off your bias glasses for a second and actually meet some people in them.

Hispanic, black, Asian, white, men, women, gay, straight, transgender, truck dudes, Honda kids, hydraulics, low riders, sound systems, dub wheels ...

The ability to own and modify your car in whatever way you can come up with is entirely empowering to everyone involved.

Try harder, fool.


So much this...

If electric cars become popular and drive down the price of gas due to less demand, I'm all for it.
 
2021-04-11 10:53:08 PM  

Wanderlusting: The ability to own and modify your car in whatever way you can come up with is entirely empowering to everyone involved.


Yeah man it's pretty obvious why you need to feel empowered

live.staticflickr.comView Full Size
 
2021-04-11 10:54:26 PM  

HoodRich White Man: I get the point of course, but this truly would have a weighted, adverse effect on the working class. Let me put it this way, when my company had to buy a new building due to our growth, the #1 considered factor on suitability was proximity to where our officers lived. Anecdotal of course, but if that isn't the perfect example, I don't know what is.


Another reason for UBI.  It'll sell as a tax rebate for people making under $90k a year.

Just give everyone the money to drive 50,000 miles.
 
2021-04-11 10:59:26 PM  

moothemagiccow: Wanderlusting: The ability to own and modify your car in whatever way you can come up with is entirely empowering to everyone involved.

Yeah man it's pretty obvious why you need to feel empowered

[live.staticflickr.com image 640x512]


You need to update your memes. I haven't seen one of those rebadged Chevy Tahoe's masquerading as a Hummer in nearly a decade.

If you're going to get 8mpg, why not get a road-legal rocketship with 800hp instead?

images.spot.imView Full Size
 
2021-04-11 11:02:36 PM  

moothemagiccow: Wanderlusting: The ability to own and modify your car in whatever way you can come up with is entirely empowering to everyone involved.

Yeah man it's pretty obvious why you need to feel empowered

[live.staticflickr.com image 640x512]


My '97 Wrangler is so much cooler than that.
 
2021-04-11 11:03:06 PM  

Wanderlusting: moothemagiccow: Wanderlusting: The ability to own and modify your car in whatever way you can come up with is entirely empowering to everyone involved.

Yeah man it's pretty obvious why you need to feel empowered

[live.staticflickr.com image 640x512]

You need to update your memes. I haven't seen one of those rebadged Chevy Tahoe's masquerading as a Hummer in nearly a decade.

If you're going to get 8mpg, why not get a road-legal rocketship with 800hp instead?

[images.spot.im image 850x499]


What's that one called again? A muscle car? Because you guys don't have any real muscles?
 
2021-04-11 11:03:13 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-11 11:06:17 PM  

The_Sponge: How wonderful...fark over people with smaller incomes.

/Has is already too expensive in my state.


Gee if only there were some sort of "subsidization" process that would take care of them.

/market failures cannot be solved by markets. deal with it. time to fix the problem.
 
2021-04-11 11:09:12 PM  

Wanderlusting: I'm okay with raising the gas tax.

Stomps the poors even harder than we already do. They need to pony up for all those externalities they use on their drive to their $7.25/hr jobs.

/s


oh look it's the same bullshiat again where people who just want cheap petroleum are trying to make it sound like the poor must suffer, because government totally can't subsidize the poor. or that you don't want to subsidize the poor, is more like it.

time to start adulting and fixing yet another market that failed miserably. sorry about your precious 7 mpg warthogmobile.
 
2021-04-11 11:09:12 PM  

gameshowhost: The_Sponge: How wonderful...fark over people with smaller incomes.

/Has is already too expensive in my state.

Gee if only there were some sort of "subsidization" process that would take care of them.

/market failures cannot be solved by markets. deal with it. time to fix the problem.


How exactly is that accounting for the harmful externalities? Why should the government be subsidizing anyone's carbon usage if carbon emissions is the existential threat we are saying it is?

This is like offering poor people subsidized asbestos insulation because better insulation is too expensive.
 
2021-04-11 11:09:43 PM  

Wanderlusting: gameshowhost: The_Sponge: How wonderful...fark over people with smaller incomes.

/Has is already too expensive in my state.

Gee if only there were some sort of "subsidization" process that would take care of them.

/market failures cannot be solved by markets. deal with it. time to fix the problem.

How exactly is that accounting for the harmful externalities? Why should the government be subsidizing anyone's carbon usage if carbon emissions is the existential threat we are saying it is?

This is like offering poor people subsidized asbestos insulation because better insulation is too expensive.


that's the dumbest farking analogy ever
 
2021-04-11 11:13:25 PM  

gameshowhost: Wanderlusting: gameshowhost: The_Sponge: How wonderful...fark over people with smaller incomes.

/Has is already too expensive in my state.

Gee if only there were some sort of "subsidization" process that would take care of them.

/market failures cannot be solved by markets. deal with it. time to fix the problem.

How exactly is that accounting for the harmful externalities? Why should the government be subsidizing anyone's carbon usage if carbon emissions is the existential threat we are saying it is?

This is like offering poor people subsidized asbestos insulation because better insulation is too expensive.

that's the dumbest farking analogy ever


It really isn't. You're the one saying we need to subsidize poor peoples gasoline usage because the totality of externalities prices in makes their usage of those substances too expensive for their income.

Either we need to price in externalities or we don't. Rich people paying more for someone to continue belching CO2 into the atmosphere seems a bit reductive if lessening CO2 emissions is the ultimate goal.
 
2021-04-11 11:14:40 PM  
Solution: subsidize the poor ~so they have myriad options that aren't uberpollutionmobiles (i will punch you in the face and shiat used 5W-30 in your mouth if you pretend like you don't know damn well what all those options are)~, and reduce greenhouse gases.

/same old libertarian bullshiat bad faith argu-fails are tiresome, failures
 
2021-04-11 11:15:04 PM  
I spent some time in England in the late 80's. Ever since then, I don't complain about the price for gas or housing. If they didn't have the NHS, those people would be totally hosed. I think they were paying twice what we were for gas and houses.
 
2021-04-11 11:35:31 PM  

moothemagiccow: Wanderlusting: The ability to own and modify your car in whatever way you can come up with is entirely empowering to everyone involved.

Yeah man it's pretty obvious why you need to feel empowered

[live.staticflickr.com image 640x512]


People that don't understand cars and trucks and the personalization of them are the best people.

Someone who probably tattooed their taint, rides a bicycle and is totally ok with 20 different genders gets offended because someone likes something that has been a fixture in American life for 70+ years.

I'm extremely mobile and I love for everyone to have their own say. However, I don't shiat on your right to buy or own an electric car.

Have you ever taken a step back and realized that maybe your grand ideas of Valhalla are a bit beyond reproach?

I like the idea of vehicular electrification. The masses of people that use cars like yourself that dont care about any feeling towards them deserve an appliance they can feel good about. I'm "carbon neutral" yet the battery mining is so eco-friendly.

Some people love cars. The sound, the feeling, the energy. Firing up a 1970 Ferrari Colombo V12 and hearing the valves open and close on the overhead cams is one of the best auditory experiences a person can have. The thrust those tiny motors create and the the soundtrack they provide is not only automotive art, but it's also an experience for the senses. No electric motor provides that theater.

For those of us who love cars...
Forza Motorsport 4 - Jeremy Clarkson trailer "Endangered Species"
Youtube 1Uc1n4ng9Nk


We care. You can ride your bike into a train. Hopefully it's a low-emission train that is sponsored by Subaru or Tesla. Or Clif bars.
 
2021-04-11 11:38:26 PM  

gameshowhost: Solution: subsidize the poor ~so they have myriad options that aren't uberpollutionmobiles (i will punch you in the face and shiat used 5W-30 in your mouth if you pretend like you don't know damn well what all those options are)~, and reduce greenhouse gases.

/same old libertarian bullshiat bad faith argu-fails are tiresome, failures


Trains and buses are a waste of money. They're covered in piss and they won't take you to the Adult MegapleXXX just outside town. And the only way to make more trains and buses is by using eminent domain to steal family farms from large corporate ag companies.

Anything but sending checks to people to buy diesel trucks and roll coal is just going to hurt America.
Why do you want to hurt America?

Plus, Latinos are the fastest-growing truck-buying demographic. Even their abuelas know trains are for pussies. Are you racist against Latinos?
 
2021-04-11 11:45:30 PM  

fatalvenom: Have you ever taken a step back and realized that maybe your grand ideas of Valhalla are a bit beyond reproach?


Ok you're just being obtuse now.
I just want to ram my wooden ship with a hot chick carved into the front of it into the jagged rocks on the coast of Ireland, and for ladies to throw themselves on my pyre.
Is your farking autobahn getting in the way of that? Yeah! Yeah it farking is!
There's no compromise to be had here. I say thee nay!
 
2021-04-11 11:55:17 PM  
A carbon sales tax is the best way. Carbon footprint scales exponentially with income. Slap it on anything and everything. If it still appears to be too regressive (it shouldn't be, though) mix it with a carbon cap and refund people who don't go over with the extra revenue from those who do. Gasoline is insanely carbon intensive, so you'll still hopefully get the desired reduction in gas use.

/never ever ever gonna happen
 
2021-04-11 11:58:33 PM  

moothemagiccow: fatalvenom: Have you ever taken a step back and realized that maybe your grand ideas of Valhalla are a bit beyond reproach?

Ok you're just being obtuse now.
I just want to ram my wooden ship with a hot chick carved into the front of it into the jagged rocks on the coast of Ireland, and for ladies to throw themselves on my pyre.
Is your farking autobahn getting in the way of that? Yeah! Yeah it farking is!
There's no compromise to be had here. I say thee nay!


We're talking about cars and you bring up boats, and a very poor way of doing so might I add.

People like cars. They have for 100's of years. Maybe one day if you can afford one that isnt an appliance you would feel the same.

Enjoy your Yaris or whatever piece of leftover garbage you drive.

The rest of us who appreciate cars for what they are will continue to enjoy them. Gas sucking V8s and all.

GFY, biatch.
 
2021-04-11 11:59:47 PM  
How much coal does a power station burn to recharge one electric vehicle ?
 
2021-04-11 11:59:50 PM  
The US chamber of commerce and automobile execs like Bob Lutz are advocates of higher gas taxes. Subby's headline is not accurate.
 
2021-04-12 12:03:07 AM  

fatalvenom: moothemagiccow: fatalvenom: Have you ever taken a step back and realized that maybe your grand ideas of Valhalla are a bit beyond reproach?

Ok you're just being obtuse now.
I just want to ram my wooden ship with a hot chick carved into the front of it into the jagged rocks on the coast of Ireland, and for ladies to throw themselves on my pyre.
Is your farking autobahn getting in the way of that? Yeah! Yeah it farking is!
There's no compromise to be had here. I say thee nay!

We're talking about cars and you bring up boats, and a very poor way of doing so might I add.

People like cars. They have for 100's of years. Maybe one day if you can afford one that isnt an appliance you would feel the same.

Enjoy your Yaris or whatever piece of leftover garbage you drive.

The rest of us who appreciate cars for what they are will continue to enjoy them. Gas sucking V8s and all.

GFY, biatch.


Hundreds of years? America's infatuation with the automobile is barely 100 years old at this point.
 
2021-04-12 12:03:23 AM  

Thunderbox: How much coal does a power station burn to recharge one electric vehicle ?


That's some tired ass propaganda there. The numbers are well known. On 100% coal, which doesn't exist in the US, 1kWh of electricity is responsible for about 1kg of CO2 after you factor in line loss and inefficiencies charging the car. At that rate, even a big honking car like the Model X is getting roughly 36mpge.
 
2021-04-12 12:06:12 AM  

Thunderbox: How much coal does a power station burn to recharge one electric vehicle ?


Considering that only 19% of America's grid is powered by coal, it's not likely that coal is powering most electric cars. But even then, coal powered electric cars produce far far fewer emissions than gasoline powered cars

https://www.google.com/amp/s/observer.​com/2019/11/tesla-coal-powered-model-g​reener-normal-car-study/amp/
 
kab
2021-04-12 12:14:20 AM  

To Wish Impossible Things: But if we raise the tax gas and fix the roads, what will happen to suspension and alignment shops?


Pretending the money will be used for roads?

Quaint.
 
2021-04-12 12:29:06 AM  

The_Sponge: iron_city_ap: 3 of my 4 cars are gas hogs. I'm getting rid of my most fuel efficient one and replacing it with another gas hog.

Totally fine if they up the gas tax here.

You're fine with higher taxes and the government wasting that money?


Yup. Totally fine with higher gas taxes, and it's not like the government doesn't already waste the $.
 
2021-04-12 12:34:26 AM  

dumbobruni: fatalvenom: moothemagiccow: fatalvenom: Have you ever taken a step back and realized that maybe your grand ideas of Valhalla are a bit beyond reproach?

Ok you're just being obtuse now.
I just want to ram my wooden ship with a hot chick carved into the front of it into the jagged rocks on the coast of Ireland, and for ladies to throw themselves on my pyre.
Is your farking autobahn getting in the way of that? Yeah! Yeah it farking is!
There's no compromise to be had here. I say thee nay!

We're talking about cars and you bring up boats, and a very poor way of doing so might I add.

People like cars. They have for 100's of years. Maybe one day if you can afford one that isnt an appliance you would feel the same.

Enjoy your Yaris or whatever piece of leftover garbage you drive.

The rest of us who appreciate cars for what they are will continue to enjoy them. Gas sucking V8s and all.

GFY, biatch.

Hundreds of years? America's infatuation with the automobile is barely 100 years old at this point.


Ok, I over stated that by a hundred years. My bad.

The point still resonates.
 
2021-04-12 1:55:34 AM  

Wanderlusting: moothemagiccow: Wanderlusting: The ability to own and modify your car in whatever way you can come up with is entirely empowering to everyone involved.

Yeah man it's pretty obvious why you need to feel empowered

[live.staticflickr.com image 640x512]

You need to update your memes. I haven't seen one of those rebadged Chevy Tahoe's masquerading as a Hummer in nearly a decade.

If you're going to get 8mpg, why not get a road-legal rocketship with 800hp instead?

[images.spot.im image 850x499]


Before I die, I just want like fifteen minutes driving a 6spd Challenger Redeye. Other than that, it's wasteful toy that no one in their right mind would use for their daily commute.

But if someone is willing to pay more in gas tax/etc to do something that dumb, I'm not going to hold it against them.
 
2021-04-12 2:20:33 AM  
You people arguing over gas is kinda funny. You know all those small airplanes flying over you? The majority of them still have lead in the gas. So every time one flies over it's basically raining lead down to your cute little lettuce and tomato plants.

Have fun sleeping now.
 
2021-04-12 2:35:14 AM  

To Wish Impossible Things: But if we raise the tax gas and fix the roads, what will happen to suspension and alignment shops?


They'll just dump nails in the street in front of their shop and sell new tires.
 
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