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(The Drive)   This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it   (thedrive.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Taiwan, South China Sea, Republic of China, Philippines, United States, East China Sea, South China, People's Republic of China  
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4773 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Apr 2021 at 8:30 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-04-11 6:11:09 PM  
Has China managed to launch a single aircraft off of that Russian POS they bought? A better question would be...has it made it out of the harbor in one piece?
 
2021-04-11 6:51:17 PM  

iheartscotch: Has China managed to launch a single aircraft off of that Russian POS they bought? A better question would be...has it made it out of the harbor in one piece?


Launching is not the issue, how are they doing at landing?  Carrier planes without landing ability, are really just expensive cruise missiles.
 
2021-04-11 7:43:40 PM  
Is this the Chinese carrier group?
 
2021-04-11 8:32:09 PM  
Why can't they just have a dance off?
 
2021-04-11 8:34:51 PM  
The way to proceed is to hold to lanes as if they have a second, or first for that matter, carrier group and we are at a hold position.

They're not looking to get into a fight, they're hoping we play equals instead of swinging our dicks around for no reason.

They don't want the Philippines, but they do want something.
 
2021-04-11 8:35:40 PM  
So like this time every freaking year?
 
2021-04-11 8:38:35 PM  
The fish are under attack
 
2021-04-11 8:42:06 PM  
Why do we fund China's ever-growing importance in the world by buying so much crap from them? If capitalism can't make it here and we need it, the government should be either subsidizing its manufacture here (or in a friendly nation that needs the economic boost) or have the government declare it an abandoned product and have the government make it.
 
2021-04-11 8:42:14 PM  
This grandstanding is silly.  It's not like our naval capacities are even close to comparable.  There aren't any questions about it.
 
2021-04-11 8:45:06 PM  

Alwysadydrmr: Why can't they just have a dance off?


Exactly like Footloose. Is it still the greatest movie in history?
 
2021-04-11 8:45:10 PM  

qorkfiend: Is this the Chinese carrier group?


Providing that they don't run into each other, my money is on the two US carrier groups. 😁
 
2021-04-11 8:45:59 PM  
China is the little dog in this scenario...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-11 8:46:47 PM  
My daughter is likely on one of those carriers. The USN better be afraid. Very afraid. Have you even seen the shiat her father posts on the Internet? I promise you that apple 🍎 didn't find a better patch of manure.

/I'm jesting
//she's a great kid
///just had to convince the couch potato to join the Navy to get her out of our basement
 
2021-04-11 8:49:07 PM  

Befuddled: Why do we fund China's ever-growing importance in the world by buying so much crap from them? If capitalism can't make it here and we need it, the government should be either subsidizing its manufacture here (or in a friendly nation that needs the economic boost) or have the government declare it an abandoned product and have the government make it.


Right now, making those things in the US would cost a lot more. We could mitigate this by paying people more, but we won't. The US would much rather keep using China for cheap labor forever.
 
2021-04-11 8:49:21 PM  

Alwysadydrmr: Why can't they just have a dance off?


They can do the whammy dance.

LES 5000 DOIGTS DU Dr T - extrait "Combat de danse" (VOST)
Youtube YSx1FnXumC4
 
2021-04-11 8:53:32 PM  
You're not from the military are you? Trying to teach whales to retrieve torpedoes or some dipshiat stuff like that?
 
2021-04-11 8:57:16 PM  
China's not going to start an expansionist conflict any time soon.  They're thinking long-term and hoping that the west will continue to flirt with authoritarianism, fascism, and isolationism.  NATO is still unified enough that China knows that if they sank a US carrier group in order the facilitate an invasion of Taiwan the response from the US an it's allies would be way more than then PLA Navy could handle.  And since China is the largest importer of food in the world, they can't afford to get involved in a conflict that involves them losing access to the seas.  However, if the US elects another Trump who antagonizes NATO and creates domestic division, if right-wing European leaders keep threatening to blow up the EU, and if nationalist movements continue to push isolationism over global ties, there could come a point where China decides that the rest of the world is too disorganized to punish them for seizing Taiwan.  That would mark a major turning point in human history, since it would be the first time since WW2 that a large, stable, first-world democracy fell to an outside aggressor.
 
2021-04-11 9:00:56 PM  

iheartscotch: Has China managed to launch a single aircraft off of that Russian POS they bought? A better question would be...has it made it out of the harbor in one piece?


The thought of a Russian carrier that's been uptarded by the Chinese is intensely hilarious to me. All the crap design that can only come from the minds of Russians, with all the shoddy Chinese add-ons, where everything is made out of monkey metal and plastic and they use exactly 80% of the number of fasteners a normal person would, and there's zero redundancy or safety margins built in. The thing probably smokes like a chimney, and leaves a trail of parts falling off it wherever it goes.
 
2021-04-11 9:03:10 PM  

positronica: China's not going to start an expansionist conflict any time soon.  They're thinking long-term and hoping that the west will continue to flirt with authoritarianism, fascism, and isolationism.  NATO is still unified enough that China knows that if they sank a US carrier group in order the facilitate an invasion of Taiwan the response from the US an it's allies would be way more than then PLA Navy could handle.  And since China is the largest importer of food in the world, they can't afford to get involved in a conflict that involves them losing access to the seas.  However, if the US elects another Trump who antagonizes NATO and creates domestic division, if right-wing European leaders keep threatening to blow up the EU, and if nationalist movements continue to push isolationism over global ties, there could come a point where China decides that the rest of the world is too disorganized to punish them for seizing Taiwan.  That would mark a major turning point in human history, since it would be the first time since WW2 that a large, stable, first-world democracy fell to an outside aggressor.


I'd like to agree with you but...  Xi really really reallyseems to want to take care of the Taiwan issue before he slips this mortal coil.
 
2021-04-11 9:03:53 PM  

iheartscotch: Has China managed to launch a single aircraft off of that Russian POS they bought? A better question would be...has it made it out of the harbor in one piece?


Two spacefaring nations cant make a boat?

OK. Jingo all the way.
 
2021-04-11 9:04:39 PM  

powhound: My daughter is likely on one of those carriers. The USN better be afraid. Very afraid. Have you even seen the shiat her father posts on the Internet? I promise you that apple 🍎 didn't find a better patch of manure.

/I'm jesting
//she's a great kid
///just had to convince the couch potato to join the Navy to get her out of our basement


You are an evil and very smart parent, If you're young enough, you should have not much of a problem replacing her. Hopefully the next one won't make the same mistake. Then you're kinda farked.
 
2021-04-11 9:11:15 PM  

gunther_bumpass: iheartscotch: Has China managed to launch a single aircraft off of that Russian POS they bought? A better question would be...has it made it out of the harbor in one piece?

Two spacefaring nations cant make a boat?

OK. Jingo all the way.


They can make a boat. The trick is in having a *functioning navy*.

China and Russia both can't help but play weird authoritarian games with their navies. And militaries-in-general. Which means the *enormous* amount of money/effort/skill it takes to keep a blue-water navy going will be forever beyond them. They simply can't bring themselves to let the navy have that much power. Because they know it would almost inevitably be turned against them. It's hard to keep people on boats from learning about the world.
 
2021-04-11 9:13:54 PM  

LovesToSpooge: Alwysadydrmr: Why can't they just have a dance off?

Exactly like Footloose. Is it still the greatest movie in history?


It never was.
 
2021-04-11 9:14:58 PM  

bobobolinskii: powhound: My daughter is likely on one of those carriers. The USN better be afraid. Very afraid. Have you even seen the shiat her father posts on the Internet? I promise you that apple 🍎 didn't find a better patch of manure.

/I'm jesting
//she's a great kid
///just had to convince the couch potato to join the Navy to get her out of our basement

You are an evil and very smart parent, If you're young enough, you should have not much of a problem replacing her. Hopefully the next one won't make the same mistake. Then you're kinda farked.


Dammit. She's the second and the last.
 
2021-04-11 9:15:16 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: iheartscotch: Has China managed to launch a single aircraft off of that Russian POS they bought? A better question would be...has it made it out of the harbor in one piece?

The thought of a Russian carrier that's been uptarded by the Chinese is intensely hilarious to me. All the crap design that can only come from the minds of Russians, with all the shoddy Chinese add-ons, where everything is made out of monkey metal and plastic and they use exactly 80% of the number of fasteners a normal person would, and there's zero redundancy or safety margins built in. The thing probably smokes like a chimney, and leaves a trail of parts falling off it wherever it goes.


The best part is she spent about a decade sitting in China as a casino before they could manage to refit her.
 
2021-04-11 9:15:42 PM  
Bet on the army with the shortest supply chain and unsinkable air strips and you are rarely wrong
 
2021-04-11 9:17:13 PM  

Turbo Cojones: Bet on the army with the shortest supply chain and unsinkable air strips and you are rarely wrong


Have you heard of our friends Japan, Korea, and the Philippines?
 
2021-04-11 9:17:52 PM  

austerity101: Befuddled: Why do we fund China's ever-growing importance in the world by buying so much crap from them? If capitalism can't make it here and we need it, the government should be either subsidizing its manufacture here (or in a friendly nation that needs the economic boost) or have the government declare it an abandoned product and have the government make it.

Right now, making those things in the US would cost a lot more. We could mitigate this by paying people more, but we won't. The US would much rather keep using China for cheap labor forever.


It really isn't that much more to do it locally. Better for the environment and society too.

Username checks out though.
 
2021-04-11 9:22:11 PM  

g.fro: Turbo Cojones: Bet on the army with the shortest supply chain and unsinkable air strips and you are rarely wrong

Have you heard of our friends Japan, Korea, and the Philippines?


Hell I'm pretty sure even Vietnam would help if things got shooty with China
 
2021-04-11 9:28:57 PM  

iheartscotch: Has China managed to launch a single aircraft off of that Russian POS they bought? A better question would be...has it made it out of the harbor in one piece?


Yes.
 
2021-04-11 9:37:55 PM  

Turbo Cojones: Bet on the army with the shortest supply chain and unsinkable air strips and you are rarely wrong


You mean like Japan in the 40s?
 
2021-04-11 9:38:40 PM  

Befuddled: Why do we fund China's ever-growing importance in the world by buying so much crap from them? If capitalism can't make it here and we need it, the government should be either subsidizing its manufacture here (or in a friendly nation that needs the economic boost) or have the government declare it an abandoned product and have the government make it.


China is really not our friend. The crap they get away with because they are China is crazy.

Chinese ISP hijacked US military, gov web traffic
Pentagon says China's military using espionage to steal secrets
 
2021-04-11 9:48:47 PM  

NathanAllen: The way to proceed is to hold to lanes as if they have a second, or first for that matter, carrier group and we are at a hold position.

They're not looking to get into a fight, they're hoping we play equals instead of swinging our dicks around for no reason.

They don't want the Philippines, but they do want something.


They want control of the entire China Sea.  Part of it is Chairman Xi's "One-China" policy. In the short term the want to return Taiwan to mainland control and to control the shipping access in the South China Sea, but the long term plan is probably to control future undersea mining of rare earth elements discovered there recently.

Today, China controls the bulk of rare earth element mining, specifically the elements used to make those super magnets that go into brushless electric motors, and a bunch of stuff used in electronics.  A couple of years ago, a group found an abundance of these elements in the South China Sea.  They can't be extracted with today's technology and techniques, but may be harvestable in 70 years.
 
2021-04-11 9:50:30 PM  

Erek the Red: NathanAllen: The way to proceed is to hold to lanes as if they have a second, or first for that matter, carrier group and we are at a hold position.

They're not looking to get into a fight, they're hoping we play equals instead of swinging our dicks around for no reason.

They don't want the Philippines, but they do want something.

They want control of the entire China Sea.  Part of it is Chairman Xi's "One-China" policy. In the short term the want to return Taiwan to mainland control and to control the shipping access in the South China Sea, but the long term plan is probably to control future undersea mining of rare earth elements discovered there recently.

Today, China controls the bulk of rare earth element mining, specifically the elements used to make those super magnets that go into brushless electric motors, and a bunch of stuff used in electronics.  A couple of years ago, a group found an abundance of these elements in the South China Sea.  They can't be extracted with today's technology and techniques, but may be harvestable in 70 years.


One of the largest deposits of Neodymium in actually in North Korea, not China and.... Oh, right.
 
2021-04-11 9:51:04 PM  

g.fro: Turbo Cojones: Bet on the army with the shortest supply chain and unsinkable air strips and you are rarely wrong

Have you heard of our friends Japan, Korea, and the Philippines?


Also nuclear aircraft carriers.
 
2021-04-11 9:54:51 PM  

Han Dolo: g.fro: Turbo Cojones: Bet on the army with the shortest supply chain and unsinkable air strips and you are rarely wrong

Have you heard of our friends Japan, Korea, and the Philippines?

Hell I'm pretty sure even Vietnam would help if things got shooty with China


I think Vietnam is practically looking forward to fighting the Chinese again, with us as their buddies this time.
 
2021-04-11 9:55:20 PM  

yohohogreengiant: austerity101: Befuddled: Why do we fund China's ever-growing importance in the world by buying so much crap from them? If capitalism can't make it here and we need it, the government should be either subsidizing its manufacture here (or in a friendly nation that needs the economic boost) or have the government declare it an abandoned product and have the government make it.

Right now, making those things in the US would cost a lot more. We could mitigate this by paying people more, but we won't. The US would much rather keep using China for cheap labor forever.

It really isn't that much more to do it locally. Better for the environment and society too.

Username checks out though.


Nothing about this thread nor my comment is about fiscal austerity. Which isn't what my screenname is about, anyway, but I enjoy the ironies that arise.
 
2021-04-11 10:00:51 PM  
Is the guy on the left the Susan Collins of the Navy, because he looks very concerned?
 
2021-04-11 10:17:06 PM  
Let them fight. Casualties, for sure, but the Chinese Navy will be gone and order will be restored.
 
2021-04-11 10:20:54 PM  

gunther_bumpass: iheartscotch: Has China managed to launch a single aircraft off of that Russian POS they bought? A better question would be...has it made it out of the harbor in one piece?

Two spacefaring nations cant make a boat?

OK. Jingo all the way.


The Russians can't seem to keep their single coal-rolling aircraft carrier deployed without detailing a tugboat to sail with it in order to tow it home. They also can't seem to refit the glorified garbage scow without starting a fire aboard the ship, hitting cranes, or sinking the drydock.

The Chinese have two carriers, and both of them burn oil for propulsion and electricity generation. They both feature ski jumps instead of catapults.

I'll bet on a nuclear-powered supercarrier against an oil powered STOBAR carrier every time.
 
2021-04-11 10:23:11 PM  

OhioUGrad: Is the guy on the left the Susan Collins of the Navy, because he looks very concerned?


It says "CO" on his hat. He has people to be concerned for him.
 
2021-04-11 10:23:50 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-11 10:29:01 PM  

NathanAllen: They don't want the Philippines, but they do want something.


They don't want the Philippines today, but they do want something.

If there is one thing the Chinese do well, it's play the long game.

Incremental expansion. Take a little bit. Bed it down. Everyone gets 'used to it'. Rinse & repeat. Frog in a pot on a global scale.
 
2021-04-11 10:31:26 PM  

Archie Goodwin: NathanAllen: They don't want the Philippines, but they do want something.

They don't want the Philippines today, but they do want something.

If there is one thing the Chinese do well, it's play the long game.

Incremental expansion. Take a little bit. Bed it down. Everyone gets 'used to it'. Rinse & repeat. Frog in a pot on a global scale.


Hell, the Philippines took China to court over China's maritime expansion, and won. China, of course, promptly ignored the court's decision.
 
2021-04-11 10:40:20 PM  

g.fro: Archie Goodwin: NathanAllen: They don't want the Philippines, but they do want something.

They don't want the Philippines today, but they do want something.

If there is one thing the Chinese do well, it's play the long game.

Incremental expansion. Take a little bit. Bed it down. Everyone gets 'used to it'. Rinse & repeat. Frog in a pot on a global scale.

Hell, the Philippines took China to court over China's maritime expansion, and won. China, of course, promptly ignored the court's decision.


The long game?

Humans don't play the long game. We can't. Maybe we could program an AI to do it, hand over running the world, and get better results, but we suck at it

China is actively doing ethnic cleansing in its own borders. It is generating a lot of bad will and anger at home and internationally at rate that surpasses even USA stupidity at the moment. It's breathtaking.

When water and food start to become an issue from climate change there is no reason to believe that they will fare any better than individual western nations.
 
2021-04-11 10:42:36 PM  
I hope China comes to it's senses soon. Americans really like the Chinese and China.

A war would be catastrophic.

China, I hope you love your children too.
 
2021-04-11 10:43:13 PM  
Year's ago I thought I read an article about China's strategy concerning the South China Sea.  They were not focusing on carriers and ships but had new missile tech that traveled super fast underwater or maybe it skimmed the surface ( can't remember)  and was pretty much undetectable with no effective U.S.counter measures.
 
2021-04-11 10:46:24 PM  
I am more concerned that if the USN is that close to the Chinese coast, the Chinese navy can have ground based aircraft support. That would press the abilities of any air carrier group.
 
2021-04-11 10:46:48 PM  

yohohogreengiant: g.fro: Archie Goodwin: NathanAllen: They don't want the Philippines, but they do want something.

They don't want the Philippines today, but they do want something.

If there is one thing the Chinese do well, it's play the long game.

Incremental expansion. Take a little bit. Bed it down. Everyone gets 'used to it'. Rinse & repeat. Frog in a pot on a global scale.

Hell, the Philippines took China to court over China's maritime expansion, and won. China, of course, promptly ignored the court's decision.

The long game?

Humans don't play the long game. We can't. Maybe we could program an AI to do it, hand over running the world, and get better results, but we suck at it

China is actively doing ethnic cleansing in its own borders. It is generating a lot of bad will and anger at home and internationally at rate that surpasses even USA stupidity at the moment. It's breathtaking.

When water and food start to become an issue from climate change there is no reason to believe that they will fare any better than individual western nations.


M.A. Weiner plays the long game
 
2021-04-11 10:49:21 PM  

g.fro: OhioUGrad: Is the guy on the left the Susan Collins of the Navy, because he looks very concerned?

It says "CO" on his hat. He has people to be concerned for him.


Maily, the guy to his immediate right.
 
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