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(Some Guy)   Culture tends to be forged on the fringes, to be embraced by mainstream society much later. There are signs we are in a culturally stagnant period   (pairagraph.com) divider line
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2917 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Apr 2021 at 1:43 PM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-04-11 10:47:55 AM  
You're not invited to my weirdo subculture and my art stays off of the internet.
 
2021-04-11 10:50:07 AM  
Weirdo Subculture is the name of my hardcore techno band
 
2021-04-11 10:59:09 AM  
Only boring people get bored
 
2021-04-11 11:01:15 AM  
Teenage and 20 something Minecraft players are performing large multi-story improv productions on Twitch and YouTube.

I'm not worried about art. Art is always changing.
 
2021-04-11 11:39:23 AM  
This is what you write when you're completely out of ideas about what to write.  You spew drivel.
 
2021-04-11 11:40:08 AM  
Meh? More art than ever and more great art than ever is being produced today (more terrible art, too). But more and more people are ignoring the gatekeepers of so-called great art. They don't have to suckle the balls of those people and institutions anymore.
 
2021-04-11 12:30:12 PM  
What?

You mean, a cookie-cutter, rehash everything movie industry, a simple-minded music industry which has been producing the SAME SH*T for two+ f*cking DECADES, and a society full of people who think Republicans MAY NOT be that bad? And you're suggesting culture is stagnant?

Nooooo....
 
2021-04-11 12:57:19 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

I spent over ten years doing landscape photography and involved in the online community around this field.

Here is what happened .. everyone went after clicks.   If something was popular, everyone was doing it.

It reached the point that people like myself who were going to new places and shooting rarely shot locations in new ways were either not disclosing the location, or outright lying about where the photo  was taken.

Myself and a few others were manipulating images so the metadata of a picture on a beach in Oregon would show you it was taken downtown Seattle.

What several of us also discovered was that our favorite images we shot were always the least popular.

So no, the internet did not do what these people thought it would do.  The same internet that gave us antivaxxers is, right now, filling my feed with a thousand pictures of tulip fields at sunrise.
 
2021-04-11 1:46:38 PM  
*yawn*
 
2021-04-11 1:47:39 PM  
Heinlein as an example? Really? Heinlein sucks and was a god damned sex creep in nearly every possible way.
 
2021-04-11 1:48:15 PM  

blastoh: internet that gave us antivaxxers


On the bright side internet invented time machine to send those antivaxxers to 1918 and other time periods
 
2021-04-11 1:48:32 PM  
Today's popular music videos include gay lap dances for Satan.  There isn't much fringe space remaining before you get into the illegal.
 
2021-04-11 1:49:51 PM  
I blame Hipsters for monetizing cultures and subcultures, turning themselves into gatekeepers and pay walls keeping us from new ideas and experiences without paying for it (and what they're selling is usually very wrong from what it's "sourcing" from).
 
2021-04-11 1:50:19 PM  
We had gate keepers
 
2021-04-11 1:56:17 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: I blame Hipsters for turning themselves into gatekeepers


Advernaut: We had gate keepers


Fight!
 
2021-04-11 1:56:33 PM  
Ironically it's the lack of mass market that's doing it, as opposed to artists out there. Without that mass market consumption, you don't have to wait for the next big thing to define the emptiness of capitalist consumer culture: you can produce it and sell it yourself! Meanwhile stuff like Star Wars, Marvel Comics, and Lord of the Potters will continue to occupy that mass market space as they are continually stretched further from their original premise and what made them interesting in the first place. It's like a forest where the massive existing trees force the new ones to grow hundreds of feet straight up instead of forming the weird, bendy, branches of traditional mass market products.
 
2021-04-11 1:57:12 PM  
I didn't see ANY of you at the last Weirdo Subculture meeting.
 
2021-04-11 1:57:38 PM  
frinkiac.comView Full Size
 
2021-04-11 1:58:17 PM  
At some point academia became super-conformist.

Conformity begets stagnation.
 
2021-04-11 1:58:22 PM  
The author has no idea what he is talking about. I could write a thesis on the ways this man is wrong and why. Here's a couple: he discounts rap and video games as art. And I think Billie Eilish is a pretty good example of weirdo art making it mainstream. As for why more weirdo art isn't making an impact... I need like 1000 words to explain it but basically... The intersection of art and commerce was fundamentally changed by digital networks and the democratization of media.
 
2021-04-11 2:02:57 PM  
Last Post
 
2021-04-11 2:07:35 PM  
well in the words of Bill Nelson from 1979s Red Noise...

STATE OF THE NATION IS THE STATE OF THE ART
 
2021-04-11 2:10:48 PM  
...and that's why we must stamp out businesses that support these so-called mainstream cultures right the fark now before they homogenize us and make us indistinguishable from other countries like Sweden.
 
2021-04-11 2:13:16 PM  
Hush up and eat your avocado toast. You need to maximize your beard grooming time before you go stroll barefoot around the neighborhood sipping kombucha from a mason jar.
 
2021-04-11 2:15:05 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: This is what you write when you're completely out of ideas about what to write.  You spew drivel.


Like this comment?😂🚛
 
2021-04-11 2:16:36 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: I blame Hipsters for monetizing cultures and subcultures, turning themselves into gatekeepers and pay walls keeping us from new ideas and experiences without paying for it (and what they're selling is usually very wrong from what it's "sourcing" from).


They wouldn't have had to monetize them if people could otherwise afford to live, though. Lots of people turned to art and hobbies to make a living.
 
2021-04-11 2:21:20 PM  
Yeah, I'm calling bullshiat. We have fewer transformational mega-celebreties (maybe, even that's arguable) because we've got a flood of transient micro-celebreties. That doesn't mean society's not advancing, it just means it's harder to put flags on the spots where "everything changed." Or, you know, the Great Man theory of history was always wrong and it's finally impossible to ignore that fact.

50 years from now, if people look back at this time period and are able to name the 10 people who changed everything, it's because they constructed that narrative after the fact, just like always.

Culture is cool. It's impossible to predict what's going to matter. Try to do great stuff wherever, and whoever, you are. Love what you love. Like what you like. Keep an open mind about the stuff you don't. Just like it's always been.
 
2021-04-11 2:23:19 PM  

xcheopis: Heinlein as an example? Really? Heinlein sucks and was a god damned sex creep in nearly every possible way.


This. He should have gone with someone like Piers Anthony.

/kidding
//tried to reread PA recently, oh dear lord
///a slashie for Chameleon
 
2021-04-11 2:24:52 PM  

Animatronik: At some point academia became super-conformist.

Conformity begets stagnation.


Well, that's what they said on the AM radio, anyway.
 
2021-04-11 2:27:24 PM  

xcheopis: Heinlein as an example? Really? Heinlein sucks and was a god damned sex creep in nearly every possible way.


I read Heinlein back when I was a horny pervert teenager and even then I thought he was creepy af.
 
2021-04-11 2:27:33 PM  
That was a lot of words to say, "Stop liking what I don't like," and "get offa my lawn, you stupid kids."

Well, that and putting art in the context of Heinlein and John Lennon. Both were hugely popular because they gave folks EXACTLY what they wanted. When Lennon strayed from that, he lost a good chunk of his market, and audience. Heinlein produced some of his most critically acclaimed work later in his career, but at a loss of market share.

We aren't at some nadir of artistic expression, we are simply in a glut of choices. Music, books, television, theater, movies, even comics and photography, there is just a LOT of content out there. And when you have so many choices, you're going to miss stuff. And some folks are going to glom onto it, and others won't even know it exists. And because there are so many folks producing stuff, the markets tend to promote the stuff that they can get paid for, consistently. As the markets have EVER done.

We have an aging population that doesn't like to be challenged, so they choose safe options. The new generations are smaller, they're not driving the scenes, they're just doing their thing, and the older generations are just not hip to what they're putting down, and folks are doing their own thing, and doing fine without the accolades of millions. Or they're autotuning like crazy to appeal to a mass market to get some scratch and it's no different than the past, again.

It's hard to invest in art today, because there are so many choices. This isn't a lament about a stagnant culture, it's a lament about the lack of easy to peg trends to promote and profit from, and trying to make it seem like something that it ain't.
 
2021-04-11 2:28:12 PM  
I've been really impressed with where film and music videos have been going. We're seeing a return to the experimental styles of 70s in both and I'm loving it. And it's pretty mainstream, too, this style showing up in plenty of films people are actually seeing--bold and expressive use of color (especially lighting), meticulous framing, non-linear and ambiguous narratives. People are far more tolerant of this type of stylizing than they were just ten years ago.

A random film to choose--I really loved Horse Girl, with Alison Brie. There is one scene that is 100% Altman, and I cannot remember the last time anyone attempted that idipsyncratic style. And this is a movie that was released on Netflix. I'm not saying the film is the next Mona Lisa, nor that all our good ideas come from the past, just that cinema is doing some really fascinating stuff right now, and modern audiences seem pretty into it.

Music videos? They're basically all short art films now. Or even full films, like Lemonade. It's nuts.
 
2021-04-11 2:31:24 PM  

TheWhoppah: Today's popular music videos include gay lap dances for Satan.  There isn't much fringe space remaining before you get into the illegal.


What about grandma's of 80
Getting matey with sailors?

God knows! Anything goes!
 
2021-04-11 2:32:41 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: I blame Hipsters for monetizing cultures and subcultures, turning themselves into gatekeepers and pay walls keeping us from new ideas and experiences without paying for it (and what they're selling is usually very wrong from what it's "sourcing" from).


True- also everything has to be "authentic" and appropriating is bad so you cannot have an outsider take on a different culture and activity
 
2021-04-11 2:36:22 PM  

blastoh: [Fark user image image 425x244]
I spent over ten years doing landscape photography and involved in the online community around this field.

Here is what happened .. everyone went after clicks.   If something was popular, everyone was doing it.

It reached the point that people like myself who were going to new places and shooting rarely shot locations in new ways were either not disclosing the location, or outright lying about where the photo  was taken.

Myself and a few others were manipulating images so the metadata of a picture on a beach in Oregon would show you it was taken downtown Seattle.

What several of us also discovered was that our favorite images we shot were always the least popular.

So no, the internet did not do what these people thought it would do.  The same internet that gave us antivaxxers is, right now, filling my feed with a thousand pictures of tulip fields at sunrise.


Photography is the art of stealing art.
/Photog
 
2021-04-11 2:40:33 PM  

Fano: DarkSoulNoHope: I blame Hipsters for monetizing cultures and subcultures, turning themselves into gatekeepers and pay walls keeping us from new ideas and experiences without paying for it (and what they're selling is usually very wrong from what it's "sourcing" from).

True- also everything has to be "authentic" and appropriating is bad so you cannot have an outsider take on a different culture and activity


Correct, you cannot. That's not really what "outsider" art is, anyway.
 
2021-04-11 2:44:27 PM  

puffy999: What?

You mean, a cookie-cutter, rehash everything movie industry, a simple-minded music industry which has been producing the SAME SH*T for two+ f*cking DECADES, and a society full of people who think Republicans MAY NOT be that bad? And you're suggesting culture is stagnant?

Nooooo....


i really wish someone would make a non-linear movie about magical young people. and be sure to include at least two gratuitous lesbian scenes.
 
2021-04-11 2:44:59 PM  

austerity101: Fano: DarkSoulNoHope: I blame Hipsters for monetizing cultures and subcultures, turning themselves into gatekeepers and pay walls keeping us from new ideas and experiences without paying for it (and what they're selling is usually very wrong from what it's "sourcing" from).

True- also everything has to be "authentic" and appropriating is bad so you cannot have an outsider take on a different culture and activity

Correct, you cannot. That's not really what "outsider" art is, anyway.


I apologize, I wasn't exactly meaning outsider art.
I was thinking of the apology that TSR's Al-Qadim setting pointing out they weren't making a setting of the real Middle East but a mix of Hollywood and Myth and a dash of history.
 
2021-04-11 2:45:51 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-11 2:46:26 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: I blame Hipsters for monetizing cultures and subcultures, turning themselves into gatekeepers and pay walls keeping us from new ideas and experiences without paying for it (and what they're selling is usually very wrong from what it's "sourcing" from).


Save that it was a fairly monolithic structure that were the gatekeepers before. Art was the province of a talented few, we were told. Only these artists are important. Only these authors. Only these musicians. And it was presented by folks with authority and sagacious wisdom. And by limiting the choices, the artistic gatekeepers KEPT control. Much like the music industry did. If anything, because of the wide and prolific expressions of art today, gatekeepers are seen as necessary for many, because folks are overwhelmed by the sheer volume of choices. Because people don't trust their own choices. They like what they like, but they're not sure if those are the "right" choices, and thus exposing them as basic b*tches. Same as it ever was. Is it cool to like this? Am I IN THE KNOW?

This is hardly new.
 
2021-04-11 2:46:56 PM  
I'm waiting on the results of a culture now......
 
2021-04-11 2:49:50 PM  
Does "stagnant culture" = "dumb as fark"?

/asking for a friend
 
2021-04-11 2:51:53 PM  

blastoh: [Fark user image 425x244]
I spent over ten years doing landscape photography and involved in the online community around this field.

Here is what happened .. everyone went after clicks.   If something was popular, everyone was doing it.

It reached the point that people like myself who were going to new places and shooting rarely shot locations in new ways were either not disclosing the location, or outright lying about where the photo  was taken.

Myself and a few others were manipulating images so the metadata of a picture on a beach in Oregon would show you it was taken downtown Seattle.

What several of us also discovered was that our favorite images we shot were always the least popular.

So no, the internet did not do what these people thought it would do.  The same internet that gave us antivaxxers is, right now, filling my feed with a thousand pictures of tulip fields at sunrise.


Reality isn't good enough anymore.  Our expectations are set at what cannot be and so contentment will be impossible.
 
2021-04-11 2:59:17 PM  

NINEv2: Does "stagnant culture" = "dumb as fark"?

/asking for a friend


The mainstream is always stagnant. Happy, but not terribly innovative, which is why it's the mainstream. And the folks who want to tempt folks to invest in art, they need to assure the folks they're courting for their cash, that they are investing in something that is smart, challenging, and gosh, a lot of people won't get it, but you do, because YOU'RE smart like that.

And then there are the artistic movements that just don't give a sh*t if they're profitable or not, and are just doing their thing. Those are the "outsiders." The folks who just DGAF. Be that punk, be that graffiti artists, be they experimental film-makers. They're just putting it out there. And if those movements get some following, THEN the folks who like to package stuff up to feed egos close in to see how they can profit from that. And it's about then that the life gets sucked of those movements, and while you can still have fun with it, it's no longer an "outsider" thing once suits decide they want to market you.
 
2021-04-11 3:06:31 PM  

Fano: DarkSoulNoHope: I blame Hipsters for monetizing cultures and subcultures, turning themselves into gatekeepers and pay walls keeping us from new ideas and experiences without paying for it (and what they're selling is usually very wrong from what it's "sourcing" from).

True- also everything has to be "authentic" and appropriating is bad so you cannot have an outsider take on a different culture and activity


People I've known from the Caribbean who are into rock (which is way more than you would think) generally think highly of 311's music.

Meanwhile American hipsters can't get over the fact that they're white dudes from Omaha playing reggae.
 
2021-04-11 3:06:39 PM  

austerity101: Fano: DarkSoulNoHope: I blame Hipsters for monetizing cultures and subcultures, turning themselves into gatekeepers and pay walls keeping us from new ideas and experiences without paying for it (and what they're selling is usually very wrong from what it's "sourcing" from).

True- also everything has to be "authentic" and appropriating is bad so you cannot have an outsider take on a different culture and activity

Correct, you cannot. That's not really what "outsider" art is, anyway.


The term "outsider art" never had any meaning
 
2021-04-11 3:08:48 PM  
International Pony - Gothic Girl
Youtube nvOlpiw9OHI
 
2021-04-11 3:10:16 PM  

talkyournonsense: Here's a couple: he discounts rap and video games as art


It's because it's in too low bitrates
 
2021-04-11 3:11:00 PM  

NINEv2: Does "stagnant culture" = "dumb as fark"?

/asking for a friend


Not exactly
Anyone who says"stagnant culture" = dumb as fark
 
2021-04-11 3:12:27 PM  
These times fail to support real art. If a Van Gogh came along now, he would be ignored and unable to sell a single work. He'd be a marginalized outsider dependent on a relative for substance.
 
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