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(CNBC)   Subby only buys the finest free range grass fed bitcoin   (cnbc.com) divider line
    More: Amusing, Renewable energy, Celebrity investor Kevin O'Leary, Hydroelectricity, blood coin, Board of directors, clean energy, Russia, Fossil fuel  
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604 clicks; posted to Business » on 11 Apr 2021 at 8:50 AM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



60 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


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2021-04-11 7:22:10 AM  
someone should define fungible for him.
 
2021-04-11 7:30:40 AM  
Wasn't that the guy whose mother had a cow that kicked over a lantern and burned up the paper with the password to his Bitcoin wallet?
 
2021-04-11 7:31:30 AM  
That's a lot of random words in English jumbled together.
 
2021-04-11 7:44:06 AM  
I get mine from Iceland, where they use geothermal for power and ambient cold air for cooling.
 
2021-04-11 9:11:02 AM  
So do we need to have NFTs for individual bitcoin now so we know where they came from?
 
2021-04-11 9:14:49 AM  
I only use 20s that end in an even serial number.

No reason.
 
2021-04-11 9:48:10 AM  
O'Leary shows his ignorance about bitcoin every time he opens his mouth. A few months ago he was saying bitcoin was 100% a scam. Before that it was the future! And before the he said bitcoin was a complete scam only a moron would consider. Anyone who expects some intelligent thought or insight into bitcoin will be disappointed listening to this clown.
 
2021-04-11 10:14:25 AM  
The energy requirements of bitcoin are hugely wasteful and a huge problem.

Some crypto isn't as bad, energy-wise. But bitcoin is.
 
2021-04-11 10:15:34 AM  

NeoCortex42: So do we need to have NFTs for individual bitcoin now so we know where they came from?


It's already in the ledger.
 
2021-04-11 10:33:18 AM  

Dafatone: The energy requirements of bitcoin are hugely wasteful and a huge problem.

Some crypto isn't as bad, energy-wise. But bitcoin is.


Bitcoin is the only one there is.  All the others derive their value directly from bitcoin.  If it can't be converted to bitcoin, it's even more worthless than bitcoin, if that is possible.  Kind of a meta worthlessness, if you will.
 
2021-04-11 10:48:02 AM  

Earl of Chives: O'Leary shows his ignorance about bitcoin every time he opens his mouth. A few months ago he was saying bitcoin was 100% a scam. Before that it was the future! And before the he said bitcoin was a complete scam only a moron would consider. Anyone who expects some intelligent thought or insight into bitcoin will be disappointed listening to this clown.


He's not wrong. Just right for the wrong reasons.

Sure I wish I had bought some when it started up, but i would have happily cashed out by now and walked away.
 
2021-04-11 11:16:04 AM  

HighlanderRPI: Wasn't that the guy whose mother had a cow that kicked over a lantern and burned up the paper with the password to his Bitcoin wallet?


You store your seed phrase in more than one location if you have an IQ above 70.
 
2021-04-11 11:19:08 AM  

Earl of Chives: O'Leary shows his ignorance about bitcoin every time he opens his mouth. A few months ago he was saying bitcoin was 100% a scam. Before that it was the future! And before the he said bitcoin was a complete scam only a moron would consider. Anyone who expects some intelligent thought or insight into bitcoin will be disappointed listening to this clown.


Kevin needs to stick with being a bottom and being a celebrity bec that is all he knows.
 
2021-04-11 11:20:52 AM  

Dafatone: The energy requirements of bitcoin are hugely wasteful and a huge problem.

Some crypto isn't as bad, energy-wise. But bitcoin is.


Neat

Bec my year old puter uses well under half the electricity my 10 yr old puter uses.

And its much faster too
 
2021-04-11 11:21:33 AM  

IbiEvacua: NeoCortex42: So do we need to have NFTs for individual bitcoin now so we know where they came from?

It's already in the ledger.


Trezor is better.
 
2021-04-11 11:23:15 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Dafatone: The energy requirements of bitcoin are hugely wasteful and a huge problem.

Some crypto isn't as bad, energy-wise. But bitcoin is.

Bitcoin is the only one there is.  All the others derive their value directly from bitcoin.  If it can't be converted to bitcoin, it's even more worthless than bitcoin, if that is possible.  Kind of a meta worthlessness, if you will.


Settle down

Within 20 years your greenbacks wont be worth the paper they are printed on bec crypto will be mainstream
 
2021-04-11 11:39:04 AM  
He only wants to drink the water from the clean end of the swimming pool, not the end where everybody has been peeing.
 
2021-04-11 11:40:54 AM  
Who takes investment advice from CNBC? Click-baity "financial news"
 
2021-04-11 12:21:22 PM  
I won't eat any cryptocurrency that has a face.
 
2021-04-11 12:24:16 PM  

AstroJesus: I won't eat any cryptocurrency that has a face.


image.cnbcfm.comView Full Size
 
2021-04-11 12:27:02 PM  

Linux_Yes: Dafatone: The energy requirements of bitcoin are hugely wasteful and a huge problem.

Some crypto isn't as bad, energy-wise. But bitcoin is.

Neat

Bec my year old puter uses well under half the electricity my 10 yr old puter uses.

And its much faster too


That's not the issue. GPU intensive computing is.

Bitcoin Mining Could Use More Energy Than All of Italy by 2024
 
2021-04-11 1:25:19 PM  

Dafatone: Linux_Yes: Dafatone: The energy requirements of bitcoin are hugely wasteful and a huge problem.

Some crypto isn't as bad, energy-wise. But bitcoin is.

Neat

Bec my year old puter uses well under half the electricity my 10 yr old puter uses.

And its much faster too

That's not the issue. GPU intensive computing is.

Bitcoin Mining Could Use More Energy Than All of Italy by 2024


My AMD Ryzen 5 3400G has both cpu and gpu on same chip die.  U dont have to buy a separate graphics card with it.

Its a max 65 watt cpu/gpu.

My 8 year old phenom also AMD is cpu only and uses up to 125 watts

The Ryzen blows the phenom and its separate graphics card away speed wise.  The graphics card uses 75 watts max.

65 watts vs 200 watts

You do the math brighteyes
 
2021-04-11 1:29:30 PM  

Dafatone: Linux_Yes: Dafatone: The energy requirements of bitcoin are hugely wasteful and a huge problem.

Some crypto isn't as bad, energy-wise. But bitcoin is.

Neat

Bec my year old puter uses well under half the electricity my 10 yr old puter uses.

And its much faster too

That's not the issue. GPU intensive computing is.

Bitcoin Mining Could Use More Energy Than All of Italy by 2024


Btw

How much energy do banks and their computers use.
How much energy driving to the bank by its customers and employees.
How much energy to cool and heat these millions of banks around the world..........
 
2021-04-11 1:42:49 PM  

Linux_Yes: Dafatone: Linux_Yes: Dafatone: The energy requirements of bitcoin are hugely wasteful and a huge problem.

Some crypto isn't as bad, energy-wise. But bitcoin is.

Neat

Bec my year old puter uses well under half the electricity my 10 yr old puter uses.

And its much faster too

That's not the issue. GPU intensive computing is.

Bitcoin Mining Could Use More Energy Than All of Italy by 2024

My AMD Ryzen 5 3400G has both cpu and gpu on same chip die.  U dont have to buy a separate graphics card with it.

Its a max 65 watt cpu/gpu.

My 8 year old phenom also AMD is cpu only and uses up to 125 watts

The Ryzen blows the phenom and its separate graphics card away speed wise.  The graphics card uses 75 watts max.

65 watts vs 200 watts

You do the math brighteyes


Your Ryzen and Phenom, as a practical matter, use roughly the same amount of power - they both will idle somewhere in the sub 10 Watt range the vast majority of the time.

The problem with bitcoin is threefold: the ASIC miners are going balls out 24/7/365, every incremental coin that is mined requires exponentially more computing resources and the more computing resources that are engaged also increase the requirements.  The end result cannot be anything other than environmental catastrophe.
 
2021-04-11 1:46:54 PM  
Technically you could do this, but it would require the cooperation of at least one miner and exchange service to maintain a separate wallet of coinbase transactions which had been mined in a "clean" region. They could even sell them at a premium price to reflect that origin. The drug dealer or ransomware operator who's eventually receiving your payment won't care where the coins came from though.


Dafatone: That's not the issue. GPU intensive computing is.


Nobody's using GPUs for Bitcoin, not for many years. They design and build their own chips from scratch. Blame the Ethereum crowd for the video card shortage, and tell them to hurry up on that transition to a proof-of-stake model.
 
2021-04-11 2:02:03 PM  

OptionC: Linux_Yes: Dafatone: Linux_Yes: Dafatone: The energy requirements of bitcoin are hugely wasteful and a huge problem.

Some crypto isn't as bad, energy-wise. But bitcoin is.

Neat

Bec my year old puter uses well under half the electricity my 10 yr old puter uses.

And its much faster too

That's not the issue. GPU intensive computing is.

Bitcoin Mining Could Use More Energy Than All of Italy by 2024

My AMD Ryzen 5 3400G has both cpu and gpu on same chip die.  U dont have to buy a separate graphics card with it.

Its a max 65 watt cpu/gpu.

My 8 year old phenom also AMD is cpu only and uses up to 125 watts

The Ryzen blows the phenom and its separate graphics card away speed wise.  The graphics card uses 75 watts max.

65 watts vs 200 watts

You do the math brighteyes

Your Ryzen and Phenom, as a practical matter, use roughly the same amount of power - they both will idle somewhere in the sub 10 Watt range the vast majority of the time.

The problem with bitcoin is threefold: the ASIC miners are going balls out 24/7/365, every incremental coin that is mined requires exponentially more computing resources and the more computing resources that are engaged also increase the requirements.  The end result cannot be anything other than environmental catastrophe.


True

But how much computer energy do the multitude of brick and mortor banks around the world use??

The energy employees and customers of these banks use in transportation to and from banks?

The energy to heat and cool these many banks around the world??

Look at the whole forest not just the leaves.

If you tally all the energy our world wide banking systems use..........
 
2021-04-11 2:20:50 PM  
Just have the BidenHarris ban bitcoin with an EO.  Make the punishment for having bitcoin a year in prison and the bitcoin confiscated.

Bitcoin energy problem solved.
 
2021-04-11 2:41:15 PM  

Linux_Yes: But how much computer energy do the multitude of brick and mortor banks around the world use??


How many banks move next to a hydroelectric power plant to get cheap electricity they can waste solving a hard math problem every ten minutes?

None banks is how many.  Zero.

Bitcoin is a fad, like tulips.
 
2021-04-11 2:55:15 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Linux_Yes: But how much computer energy do the multitude of brick and mortor banks around the world use??

How many banks move next to a hydroelectric power plant to get cheap electricity they can waste solving a hard math problem every ten minutes?

None banks is how many.  Zero.

Bitcoin is a fad, like tulips.


Crypto-currency is the future unfortunately.

Fiat currencies are controlled by a few politicians.

Just like the internet, social-media etc. It will look like a joke until the day it changes everything.
 
2021-04-11 2:56:26 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Linux_Yes: But how much computer energy do the multitude of brick and mortor banks around the world use??

How many banks move next to a hydroelectric power plant to get cheap electricity they can waste solving a hard math problem every ten minutes?

None banks is how many.  Zero.

Bitcoin is a fad, like tulips.


In 10 to 20 years youll have another think coming.
 
2021-04-11 2:59:01 PM  

EvilEgg: someone should define fungible for him.


Bitcoin is not fungible.

Every single bitcoin is unique.

BLOCKCHAIN! Each bitcoin is forever associated with a full history of everything that ever happened to it.
 
2021-04-11 2:59:51 PM  

mr0x: Marcus Aurelius: Linux_Yes: But how much computer energy do the multitude of brick and mortor banks around the world use??

How many banks move next to a hydroelectric power plant to get cheap electricity they can waste solving a hard math problem every ten minutes?

None banks is how many.  Zero.

Bitcoin is a fad, like tulips.

Crypto-currency is the future unfortunately.

Fiat currencies are controlled by a few politicians.

Just like the internet, social-media etc. It will look like a joke until the day it changes everything.


The global bankster system will go the way of the dinosaur.  Like the chickens that replaced the dinosaures we will have their children for breakfast every morning.
 
2021-04-11 3:02:17 PM  

Linux_Yes: Marcus Aurelius: Linux_Yes: But how much computer energy do the multitude of brick and mortor banks around the world use??

How many banks move next to a hydroelectric power plant to get cheap electricity they can waste solving a hard math problem every ten minutes?

None banks is how many.  Zero.

Bitcoin is a fad, like tulips.

In 10 to 20 years youll have another think coming.


No central bank in the world is going to surrender their money supply to bitcoin.  They may invent their own digital currencies, but it will not in any way be bitcoin.  You'll be able to buy it with bitcoin, but you can do that today with dollars.
 
2021-04-11 3:02:53 PM  

mr0x: EvilEgg: someone should define fungible for him.

Bitcoin is not fungible.

Every single bitcoin is unique.

BLOCKCHAIN! Each bitcoin is forever associated with a full history of everything that ever happened to it.


There are no coins. "Coin" is a unit of measurement like "ounce".
 
2021-04-11 3:03:16 PM  

AmbassadorBooze: Just have the BidenHarris ban bitcoin with an EO.  Make the punishment for having bitcoin a year in prison and the bitcoin confiscated.

Bitcoin energy problem solved.


India is doing something similar. India did a limited ban on cash so that people would not cheat on taxes.

I can see government want a full record of every dollar that you got and you spend, and where you spend it. Sure, it will be for taxes first but all that data ....
 
2021-04-11 3:03:28 PM  

AmbassadorBooze: Just have the BidenHarris ban bitcoin with an EO.  Make the punishment for having bitcoin a year in prison and the bitcoin confiscated.

Bitcoin energy problem solved.


Wont work

Most blockchains are decentralized open source peer to peer networks.

Unless you want to shut the internet down

How successful was Microsoft in shutting down Linux??
 
2021-04-11 3:04:04 PM  

mr0x: Crypto-currency is the future unfortunately.


Digital currency, yes.  China is introducing the crypto Yuan, for example, but this will give them more control over their money, not less.  And the experiment has yet to bear any fruit, rotten or otherwise.
 
2021-04-11 3:05:33 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Technically you could do this, but it would require the cooperation of at least one miner and exchange service to maintain a separate wallet of coinbase transactions which had been mined in a "clean" region. They could even sell them at a premium price to reflect that origin. The drug dealer or ransomware operator who's eventually receiving your payment won't care where the coins came from though.


Dafatone: That's not the issue. GPU intensive computing is.

Nobody's using GPUs for Bitcoin, not for many years. They design and build their own chips from scratch. Blame the Ethereum crowd for the video card shortage, and tell them to hurry up on that transition to a proof-of-stake model.


When you buy bitcoin through coinbase, you don't really own any bitcoin.

You just give coinbase money and they say you own this much bitcoin. Sure, they will give you money back for selling your bitcoin but one "hack" and they'll say its all gone.
 
2021-04-11 3:12:30 PM  

mr0x: When you buy bitcoin through coinbase, you don't really own any bitcoin.

You just give coinbase money and they say you own this much bitcoin. Sure, they will give you money back for selling your bitcoin but one "hack" and they'll say its all gone.


I bet you know more than one person who claims to "have some bitcoin on a hard drive somewhere I think maybe the attic".

Quite frankly, Bitcoin is a giant pain in the ass when you get right down to it.
 
2021-04-11 3:13:35 PM  

OptionC: Linux_Yes: Dafatone: Linux_Yes: Dafatone: The energy requirements of bitcoin are hugely wasteful and a huge problem.

Some crypto isn't as bad, energy-wise. But bitcoin is.

Neat

Bec my year old puter uses well under half the electricity my 10 yr old puter uses.

And its much faster too

That's not the issue. GPU intensive computing is.

Bitcoin Mining Could Use More Energy Than All of Italy by 2024

My AMD Ryzen 5 3400G has both cpu and gpu on same chip die.  U dont have to buy a separate graphics card with it.

Its a max 65 watt cpu/gpu.

My 8 year old phenom also AMD is cpu only and uses up to 125 watts

The Ryzen blows the phenom and its separate graphics card away speed wise.  The graphics card uses 75 watts max.

65 watts vs 200 watts

You do the math brighteyes

Your Ryzen and Phenom, as a practical matter, use roughly the same amount of power - they both will idle somewhere in the sub 10 Watt range the vast majority of the time.

The problem with bitcoin is threefold: the ASIC miners are going balls out 24/7/365, every incremental coin that is mined requires exponentially more computing resources and the more computing resources that are engaged also increase the requirements.  The end result cannot be anything other than environmental catastrophe.


Computing resources is tied to the price of bitcoin, it does not just exponentially grow. It only grows exponentially if the price of bitcoin goes up exponentially.

If bitcoin stabilizes then the computing resources used will the same or even less because bitcoin rewards diminish with time.
 
2021-04-11 3:19:14 PM  

mr0x: When you buy bitcoin through coinbase, you don't really own any bitcoin.

You just give coinbase money and they say you own this much bitcoin. Sure, they will give you money back for selling your bitcoin but one "hack" and they'll say its all gone.


That's how it works on Robinhood (external transfers were "coming soon" since 2018 the last time I looked). Coinbase does appear to let you transfer cryptocurrency to the wallet of your choice. I've never used Coinbase so I can't confirm this personally.
 
2021-04-11 3:20:48 PM  

Ivo Shandor: mr0x: When you buy bitcoin through coinbase, you don't really own any bitcoin.

You just give coinbase money and they say you own this much bitcoin. Sure, they will give you money back for selling your bitcoin but one "hack" and they'll say its all gone.

That's how it works on Robinhood (external transfers were "coming soon" since 2018 the last time I looked). Coinbase does appear to let you transfer cryptocurrency to the wallet of your choice. I've never used Coinbase so I can't confirm this personally.



Buy through CoinBase.
Transfers to hardware wallet.

media.giphy.comView Full Size


/Can confirm
 
2021-04-11 3:25:27 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: mr0x: When you buy bitcoin through coinbase, you don't really own any bitcoin.

You just give coinbase money and they say you own this much bitcoin. Sure, they will give you money back for selling your bitcoin but one "hack" and they'll say its all gone.

I bet you know more than one person who claims to "have some bitcoin on a hard drive somewhere I think maybe the attic".

Quite frankly, Bitcoin is a giant pain in the ass when you get right down to it.


The bitcoins are not stored on a hard drive. Each and every bitcoin ever created is there for anyone to see on the internet.

When people say bitcoins on a hard drive, they mean that the keys to access the keys to control the bitcoin. They foolishly wrote it down on a bitcoin.txt or something similar. The recommended way to print out the keys and store it in a safe (or multiple locations where it can be retrieved by yourself).

With regular banks, the problem is identity theft. People can claim to be you and take ownership of your money.

Also, the banks just take money from you with "fees" for breaking their "rules". They game the rules so they can just siphon off your accounts.

Also, there are many ways the government can just take your money. You then have to prove that they shouldn't have taken your money.
 
2021-04-11 3:30:51 PM  

mr0x: Also, the banks just take money from you with "fees" for breaking their "rules".


Ah yes, "fees". You know what else has fees?

Fark user imageView Full Size

Granted, nobody charges you an "inactivity fee" if you leave a balance sitting in your wallet for years. But as soon as you want to use your currency for something, it'll cost you.
 
2021-04-11 3:36:39 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Linux_Yes: Marcus Aurelius: Linux_Yes: But how much computer energy do the multitude of brick and mortor banks around the world use??

How many banks move next to a hydroelectric power plant to get cheap electricity they can waste solving a hard math problem every ten minutes?

None banks is how many.  Zero.

Bitcoin is a fad, like tulips.

In 10 to 20 years youll have another think coming.

No central bank in the world is going to surrender their money supply to bitcoin.  They may invent their own digital currencies, but it will not in any way be bitcoin.  You'll be able to buy it with bitcoin, but you can do that today with dollars.


The only problem with that is userbase and trust.
Over time more and more people around the world will use decentralized open source peer to peer blockchains to get away from monopolizing fee and interest charging banksters.

Sure they could use a private bankster blockchain but then they are right back in the bent over position of feeding their bank stock owners.

The blockchain is rules without rulers and all their exploitive shenanigans to take some of their money off the top.

Banks dont have any way to stop their customers from moving to open source blockchains just like MS could not stop Linux from dominating everything except desktops and gaming.  Thatll take more time.

Linux adoption continues unstoppable growth and MS cant stop it.

Decentralized open source peer to peer blockchains will run the bankster ones out of business eventually just like good money drives out bad money.

Users and trust decides what currency is if enough get on board.

Think about why bitcoin got started in 2009 right after the 2008 mortgage banking crises.  Users are losing their trust in the banking system and for good reason: its crooked as hell
 
2021-04-11 3:37:33 PM  

Ivo Shandor: mr0x: Also, the banks just take money from you with "fees" for breaking their "rules".

Ah yes, "fees". You know what else has fees?

[Fark user image image 850x417]
Granted, nobody charges you an "inactivity fee" if you leave a balance sitting in your wallet for years. But as soon as you want to use your currency for something, it'll cost you.


The banks also charge transaction fees. They charge the seller and so it is hidden from you.

Do you really think that banks just do everything for free?
 
2021-04-11 4:15:14 PM  

mr0x: Ivo Shandor: mr0x: Also, the banks just take money from you with "fees" for breaking their "rules".

Ah yes, "fees". You know what else has fees?

[Fark user image image 850x417]
Granted, nobody charges you an "inactivity fee" if you leave a balance sitting in your wallet for years. But as soon as you want to use your currency for something, it'll cost you.

The banks also charge transaction fees. They charge the seller and so it is hidden from you.

Do you really think that banks just do everything for free?


ACH transactions are free to most bank customers on both sides.

Also, what the hell do you people do that banks charge you fees?  Whether I have had $100 or $100k in my checking I don't think I have ever paid any sort of account fee...
 
2021-04-11 4:26:30 PM  

OptionC: mr0x: Ivo Shandor: mr0x: Also, the banks just take money from you with "fees" for breaking their "rules".

Ah yes, "fees". You know what else has fees?

[Fark user image image 850x417]
Granted, nobody charges you an "inactivity fee" if you leave a balance sitting in your wallet for years. But as soon as you want to use your currency for something, it'll cost you.

The banks also charge transaction fees. They charge the seller and so it is hidden from you.

Do you really think that banks just do everything for free?

ACH transactions are free to most bank customers on both sides.

Also, what the hell do you people do that banks charge you fees?  Whether I have had $100 or $100k in my checking I don't think I have ever paid any sort of account fee...


Wire transfers (the nearest equivalent to Bitcoin) usually have fees. Credit and debit card transactions have fees charged to the merchant (a small fraction of which turns into your "cash back" for using the card). I don't pay fees for regular withdrawals from my checking account but I do have to maintain a $1000 minimum balance.
 
2021-04-11 4:31:38 PM  

Ivo Shandor: OptionC: mr0x: Ivo Shandor: mr0x: Also, the banks just take money from you with "fees" for breaking their "rules".

Ah yes, "fees". You know what else has fees?

[Fark user image image 850x417]
Granted, nobody charges you an "inactivity fee" if you leave a balance sitting in your wallet for years. But as soon as you want to use your currency for something, it'll cost you.

The banks also charge transaction fees. They charge the seller and so it is hidden from you.

Do you really think that banks just do everything for free?

ACH transactions are free to most bank customers on both sides.

Also, what the hell do you people do that banks charge you fees?  Whether I have had $100 or $100k in my checking I don't think I have ever paid any sort of account fee...

Wire transfers (the nearest equivalent to Bitcoin) usually have fees. Credit and debit card transactions have fees charged to the merchant (a small fraction of which turns into your "cash back" for using the card). I don't pay fees for regular withdrawals from my checking account but I do have to maintain a $1000 minimum balance.


People still do domestic wire transfers?  Why?!?!?  ACH is free.  I literally don't understand why you would do a wire transfer unless you are sending to an account outside the ACH network.

Obviously credit card fees exist, but that's always going to be the case for widespread unsecured credit facilities.  If someone makes the bitcoin equivalent of Visa they will still need to insure it against fraudulent charges.
 
2021-04-11 7:24:39 PM  

Linux_Yes: Think about why bitcoin got started in 2009 right after the 2008 mortgage banking crises. Users are losing their trust in the banking system and for good reason: its crooked as hell


and if we've proven anything over and over again its when something doesnt work theres always 2 groups of people ready to tell me ALL ABOUT IT

1. the people who broken it (republicans deregulating banks)
2. and the people ready to sell me a half baked solution thats worse than the problem (bitcoin)
 
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