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(Twitter)   Eric Feigl-Ding, a Harvard health economist and epidemiologist, takes a close looks at US prisons and their Covid policies   (twitter.com) divider line
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1525 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Apr 2021 at 11:05 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-04-10 6:51:46 PM  
Original Tweet:

 
2021-04-10 6:52:58 PM  
Welcome to shiathole country.
 
2021-04-10 11:09:18 PM  
In honor of all he's done on behalf of the muscular dystrophy association, it's fitting they let Jerry Lewis name a doctor.
 
2021-04-10 11:09:27 PM  
Why the f*ck wouldn't the prison guards want to be masked up, given they probably knew about the lack of testing?
 
2021-04-10 11:09:39 PM  
I was ready to go blaming for profit prisons, but this shiat is everywhere in our prison system, and that's inexcusable.
 
2021-04-10 11:13:16 PM  
For all the talk in America about freedom and opportunity, we don't actually believe in any of that bullshiat. It's an awful country for many people and our treatment of prisoners is atrocious. This is even before certain interests make money off of them.
 
2021-04-10 11:13:52 PM  

nakmuay: Why the f*ck wouldn't the prison guards want to be masked up, given they probably knew about the lack of testing?


Who do you think is the majority of those who apply to be a prison guard?
 
2021-04-10 11:16:19 PM  
Wanna get away?
 
2021-04-10 11:16:46 PM  
That's  a hobbit name if I ever heard one.  Check his toes.  Fuzzy as shiat, right?
Goddamn immigrants.
 
2021-04-10 11:17:12 PM  

nakmuay: Why the f*ck wouldn't the prison guards want to be masked up, given they probably knew about the lack of testing?


Prison guards are the people who were too stupid to pass the police entrance exams.
 
2021-04-10 11:17:54 PM  

My Brain Hurts: nakmuay: Why the f*ck wouldn't the prison guards want to be masked up, given they probably knew about the lack of testing?

Who do you think is the majority of those who apply to be a prison guard?


No doubt, but one would think that even Potato-Americans would care about being put in an obviously dangerous situation. Then again, I live in Texas, so...
 
2021-04-10 11:18:57 PM  

nakmuay: My Brain Hurts: nakmuay: Why the f*ck wouldn't the prison guards want to be masked up, given they probably knew about the lack of testing?

Who do you think is the majority of those who apply to be a prison guard?

No doubt, but one would think that even Potato-Americans would care about being put in an obviously dangerous situation. Then again, I live in Texas, so...


If nothing else, just the racism (Icky Brown People) should have done the trick.
 
2021-04-10 11:18:59 PM  

nakmuay: Why the f*ck wouldn't the prison guards want to be masked up, given they probably knew about the lack of testing?


There isnt much difference between a prison guard and the average prisoner.
 
2021-04-10 11:20:57 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Welcome to shiathole country.


Increasingly, the lessons being taught may not be what the authorities intended.  More and more, the take away seems to be just jump directly to a armed confrontation with the police because chances are they will kill you anyways or you will end up getting brutalized in prison in a variety of ways.
 
2021-04-10 11:21:43 PM  

lolmao500: nakmuay: Why the f*ck wouldn't the prison guards want to be masked up, given they probably knew about the lack of testing?

There isnt much difference between a prison guard and the average prisoner.


Just an arrest.
 
2021-04-10 11:22:37 PM  
I was expecting him to have been arrested, based on the headline
 
2021-04-10 11:22:58 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-10 11:29:06 PM  

nakmuay: Why the f*ck wouldn't the prison guards want to be masked up, given they probably knew about the lack of testing?


Aggressive male primates show dominance through grinning and other teeth-baring presentations.  Primate wars are fought and won or lost through dental displays.  You better be wearing a mask just to not get torn apart.  Now quiet.  We can move now that the sun is down.  Stop!  Don't step in that, looks like a turd.
 
2021-04-10 11:29:23 PM  

aleister_greynight: I was ready to go blaming for profit prisons, but this shiat is everywhere in our prison system, and that's inexcusable.


That's probably due to the pervasive belief that prisoners aren't human.

I wish I was kidding about that.  But prisoners are treated worse in the US than pretty much any other country outside of the 3rd world.
 
2021-04-10 11:30:52 PM  
I understand removing the hand sanitizer. When I worked on the Navajo Reservation, we kept the hand sanitizer hidden because patients would try to drink it.
Failing to supply soap and not having access to a sink is inhumane.
 
2021-04-10 11:30:57 PM  
Freedumb has a price.  Occasionally the tree of liberty must be watered with the sputum of wheezing, suffocating incarcerated Americans.
 
2021-04-10 11:32:21 PM  

lolmao500: [Fark user image 599x537]


We call that Maslows Douchebaggery.
 
2021-04-10 11:34:43 PM  
Coronavirus VIII: Prisons & Jails: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
Youtube MuxnH0VAkAM
 
2021-04-10 11:41:45 PM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-04-10 11:49:00 PM  
Good luck doing anything about it. "Hey, maybe prisons could commit slightly fewer human rights violations daily" is enough to get two thirds of this country to try to publicly hang you.
 
2021-04-11 12:00:36 AM  
yeah it's bad

but no one cares because people hate prisoners

people literally didn't want them to get vaccinated before the rest of the population

it's that bit at the end of dark knight with the ferries except the government hired people to turn the key that blows up the prisoner ferry

//the list of people who give a fark is like : bleeding-heart leftists, prisoners, and some prisoners' moms, that's it
 
2021-04-11 12:07:15 AM  

nakmuay: Why the f*ck wouldn't the prison guards want to be masked up, given they probably knew about the lack of testing?


Cuz they real Americans.  Masks are just a way to control you.

Duh.
 
2021-04-11 12:08:17 AM  

al-Mundane: In honor of all he's done on behalf of the muscular dystrophy association, it's fitting they let Jerry Lewis name a doctor.


With the glaaayvin!

And the prisons and the dying and the soap and the frinkanators...
 
2021-04-11 12:11:19 AM  
I wonder what his associate Rick Fingle-Dangle-Grangle has to say about it.
 
2021-04-11 12:19:40 AM  

nakmuay: Why the f*ck wouldn't the prison guards want to be masked up, given they probably knew about the lack of testing?


Anyone who could be a prison guard in the us is already 99% likely to be one of the people who thinks covid is a liberal conspiracy because they have evangelical faith in conservative propaganda and will maintain that belief even if hospitalized with the virus.
 
2021-04-11 12:31:17 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Welcome to shiathole country.


My uncle works in corrections. They have a union and have been fighting for better conditions relating to Covid-19 for themselves and the inmates. The concern over the inmates is pragmatic; if the inmates get sick then the guards are in danger, and being able to say, "we worked to keep you safer" has a little sway with the inmates too (not that the inmates are under any illusions as to why the guards give a small shiat).
 
2021-04-11 12:31:33 AM  

moothemagiccow: yeah it's bad

but no one cares because people hate prisoners

people literally didn't want them to get vaccinated before the rest of the population

it's that bit at the end of dark knight with the ferries except the government hired people to turn the key that blows up the prisoner ferry

//the list of people who give a fark is like : bleeding-heart leftists, prisoners, and some prisoners' moms, that's it


Prisoners serve no one's agenda. The neoliberals who control both parties don't care because prisoners have no economic contribution to society; and the reactionaries on the right don't care because criminality is viewed as an offence against Jesus.

You are correct that this is a pet issue for the far left and certain minority groups within the Democratic Party. Prisoners do not have broad appeal.
 
2021-04-11 12:45:18 AM  

Shaggy_C: moothemagiccow: yeah it's bad

but no one cares because people hate prisoners

people literally didn't want them to get vaccinated before the rest of the population

it's that bit at the end of dark knight with the ferries except the government hired people to turn the key that blows up the prisoner ferry

//the list of people who give a fark is like : bleeding-heart leftists, prisoners, and some prisoners' moms, that's it

Prisoners serve no one's agenda. The neoliberals who control both parties don't care because prisoners have no economic contribution to society; and the reactionaries on the right don't care because criminality is viewed as an offence against Jesus.

You are correct that this is a pet issue for the far left and certain minority groups within the Democratic Party. Prisoners do not have broad appeal.


No economic contribution to society? Private prisons and the 13th amendment would like a word.

/not in a good way
 
2021-04-11 12:45:26 AM  
Feigl Ding?
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-11 12:53:08 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Welcome to shiathole country.


When I was a child, grown-ups would LITERALLY talk about American prisons in a scared-straight kind of way. I used to have nightmares about American prisons.

Then I learned about American prisons, and realized they are much worse than my childhood nightmares.
 
2021-04-11 1:00:46 AM  
Hell Trump literally put kids in cages at the border and nobody gave a fark, the only ones who did were holocaust survivors protesting in front of the ICE prison camps and even they were beaten up and arrested while the medias basically ignored it.

If people dont care about kids in prison being treated worse than guantanamo inmates, you really think people are gonna care about the average prisoner and covid? Not a farking chance.

Society is sick and the sociopaths are in charge because the good guys do nothing to stop em.
 
2021-04-11 1:02:34 AM  

Shaggy_C: You are correct that this is a pet issue for the far left and certain minority groups within the Democratic Party. Prisoners do not have broad appeal.


If we're aiming to be politically correct, I think the proper term now is 'chick', as in, 'prisoners are not chick magnets'. But I'm not sure why you brought it up. It seems like it's just adding insult to injury.
 
2021-04-11 1:05:22 AM  

Rambino: Marcus Aurelius: Welcome to shiathole country.

When I was a child, grown-ups would LITERALLY talk about American prisons in a scared-straight kind of way. I used to have nightmares about American prisons.

Then I learned about American prisons, and realized they are much worse than my childhood nightmares.


Cold Diarrhea | The Venture Bros. | Adult Swim
Youtube y3A_vxgBDxA


NSFW language
 
2021-04-11 1:08:42 AM  

Shaggy_C: moothemagiccow: yeah it's bad

but no one cares because people hate prisoners

people literally didn't want them to get vaccinated before the rest of the population

it's that bit at the end of dark knight with the ferries except the government hired people to turn the key that blows up the prisoner ferry

//the list of people who give a fark is like : bleeding-heart leftists, prisoners, and some prisoners' moms, that's it

Prisoners serve no one's agenda. The neoliberals who control both parties don't care because prisoners have no economic contribution to society; and the reactionaries on the right don't care because criminality is viewed as an offence against Jesus.

You are correct that this is a pet issue for the far left and certain minority groups within the Democratic Party. Prisoners do not have broad appeal.


Nope.  If we cared about economic productivity of convicts, we'd have a prison system based on rehabilitation, not punishment.

This is about vengeance.  Fark up and we'll send you to prison where you are likely to be brutalized.  Once you get out, society will continue to discriminate against you even though we know such discrimination drives up recidivism rates and costs society more money.

There are reasons why US prison rates are, by far, some of the highest in the world.
 
2021-04-11 1:10:04 AM  

HighZoolander: Shaggy_C: You are correct that this is a pet issue for the far left and certain minority groups within the Democratic Party. Prisoners do not have broad appeal.

If we're aiming to be politically correct, I think the proper term now is 'chick', as in, 'prisoners are not chick magnets'. But I'm not sure why you brought it up. It seems like it's just adding insult to injury.


Well there is that show Life After Lockup and it's awesome.
 
2021-04-11 1:11:02 AM  

Bennie Crabtree: HighZoolander: Shaggy_C: You are correct that this is a pet issue for the far left and certain minority groups within the Democratic Party. Prisoners do not have broad appeal.

If we're aiming to be politically correct, I think the proper term now is 'chick', as in, 'prisoners are not chick magnets'. But I'm not sure why you brought it up. It seems like it's just adding insult to injury.

Well there is that show Life After Lockup and it's awesome.


Love After Lockup dammit autocorrect
 
2021-04-11 1:24:23 AM  
The real problem here is the number of prisoners. 34 out of a 100 prisoners get Covid? You just need more prisoners to balance it out.

Thankfully, the cops are on the case.
 
2021-04-11 1:59:29 AM  

Aquapope: That's  a hobbit name if I ever heard one.  Check his toes.  Fuzzy as shiat, right?
Goddamn immigrants.


He should try to doppel his fingel
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-11 3:53:17 AM  
Every analysis of congregate settings (not just prisons) has revealed that the battle is all at the front door. COVID was amazingly contagious. The lack of testing early on, throughout society, resulted in a heavily suppressed statistic on just how many people were sick. Every expert I have listened to places the number of COVID cases at least double, many time triple what we have detected. So, it is no surprise congregate setting infection rates were many times over 75 percent. I got COVID from an 8 minute, masked conversation with a person 6 feet away (i had a rare situation where i had been completely isolated from anyone for a week and then had this one exposure so it was an easy  tracing case)

I am not saying that prison conditions shouldn't improve. I personally believe prison should be reserved for those who are violent, not those we are mad at. But, that is something that would require legislative action in one of two ways, or a combination of both. First, i challenge anyone to check out the word count of your criminal code in your state. Compare a 1980 criminal code to a 2020 code. I am willing to bet the current one is over 300 percent larger. The one in my state is 500 percent larger. That has to be truncated and penalties dramatically reduced. Also, refocusing policing to order maintenance and addressing violent crime.

Second, if we choose not to dramatically change our laws and policing, we could always build more prisons to allow for proper social distancing. This however comes at quite a cost that I think really paints a picture of what more humane mass incarceration would really cost. For example, in 3 systems I read a density analysis that indicated if these systems were to implement single bunking, with barriers and 6 foot distancing bed to bed, common areas spaced well enough for social distancing, and single sitting food services with total population numbers allowing for everyone to eat, receive services, and recreate in a reasonable amount of time, they would need to construct 1.5 to 2x more facilities than they currently have. So, if you had 20 prisons, you would need 30-40 more. To build and operate a single medium security facility in the US for 10 years costs over 1.25 billion dollars.  There are about 7,000 prisons and jails in the US. So, we would need to construct and operate 10,000-14,000 more prisons. That is up to 17.5 trillion dollars over the next 10 years. This is pretty much the equivalent of the entire US GDP for a single year and it is almost double our 10 year military budget which is already monstrously large.

Mass incarceration comes from the law, which comes from the legislators who are elected by the people. Policing is an executive function, which is controlled by mayors and governors, who are elected by the people. Sentencing is a combination of law and judicial action, controlled by judges, who are elected by the people. Polcing and mass incarceration is pretty much the same in every state, red or blue. So this is literally one issue where both sides do actually carry the responsibility of kicking this can down the street.

So, If we want someone to blame in the US for high levels of COVID deaths in prisons, one usually can find a mirror in a bathroom. We do not need the new york times to tell us who is to blame, most  americans can go and see for themselves including many of the people who wrote this article.
 
2021-04-11 4:42:10 AM  

MarciusDecimus: Every analysis of congregate settings (not just prisons) has revealed that the battle is all at the front door. COVID was amazingly contagious. The lack of testing early on, throughout society, resulted in a heavily suppressed statistic on just how many people were sick. Every expert I have listened to places the number of COVID cases at least double, many time triple what we have detected. So, it is no surprise congregate setting infection rates were many times over 75 percent. I got COVID from an 8 minute, masked conversation with a person 6 feet away (i had a rare situation where i had been completely isolated from anyone for a week and then had this one exposure so it was an easy  tracing case)

I am not saying that prison conditions shouldn't improve. I personally believe prison should be reserved for those who are violent, not those we are mad at. But, that is something that would require legislative action in one of two ways, or a combination of both. First, i challenge anyone to check out the word count of your criminal code in your state. Compare a 1980 criminal code to a 2020 code. I am willing to bet the current one is over 300 percent larger. The one in my state is 500 percent larger. That has to be truncated and penalties dramatically reduced. Also, refocusing policing to order maintenance and addressing violent crime.

Second, if we choose not to dramatically change our laws and policing, we could always build more prisons to allow for proper social distancing. This however comes at quite a cost that I think really paints a picture of what more humane mass incarceration would really cost. For example, in 3 systems I read a density analysis that indicated if these systems were to implement single bunking, with barriers and 6 foot distancing bed to bed, common areas spaced well enough for social distancing, and single sitting food services with total population numbers allowing for everyone to eat, receive services, and recreate in a reasonable amount of time, they would need to construct 1.5 to 2x more facilities than they currently have. So, if you had 20 prisons, you would need 30-40 more. To build and operate a single medium security facility in the US for 10 years costs over 1.25 billion dollars.  There are about 7,000 prisons and jails in the US. So, we would need to construct and operate 10,000-14,000 more prisons. That is up to 17.5 trillion dollars over the next 10 years. This is pretty much the equivalent of the entire US GDP for a single year and it is almost double our 10 year military budget which is already monstrously large.

Mass incarceration comes from the law, which comes from the legislators who are elected by the people. Policing is an executive function, which is controlled by mayors and governors, who are elected by the people. Sentencing is a combination of law and judicial action, controlled by judges, who are elected by the people. Polcing and mass incarceration is pretty much the same in every state, red or blue. So this is literally one issue where both sides do actually carry the responsibility of kicking this can down the street.

So, If we want someone to blame in the US for high levels of COVID deaths in prisons, one usually can find a mirror in a bathroom. We do not need the new york times to tell us who is to blame, most  americans can go and see for themselves including many of the people who wrote this article.


This might be the longest and most convoluted BSAB I've ever read in my life.
 
2021-04-11 6:10:01 AM  
While i respectfully disagree on the convoluted part, I literally stated both side are responsible for this, so, yeah, thanks captain obvious for repeating such.

Now, explain to me the following if both sides are not responsible:

Democrats have had trifecta, veto proof, control of California for almost a decade, why in 2019 (last pre covid official numbers) did they have 122,000 people in prison and a rate higher than all western democracies?

New York has a veto proof trifecta control by Democrats, 43,500 incarcerated, a rate greater than all but 60 or so countries, they beat israel at least.

Illinois, trifecta now and had it between 2003 and 2014, 38,000 with rate ranking just about at california levels.

Delaware, trifecta control since 2009. 21st highest rate in US. Would be 15th, 15th in the world, if delaware was a country. Fifteenth, beaten by such liberal democracies as cuba.

I will grant the fact that mass incarceration is typically worse in red states, as they dominate the top 20 rates, but mass incarceration is an issue NO political party has truly taken on where it really matters: STOP MAKING THINGS ILLEGAL and LESSEN SENTENCES. Everyone is focused on the proverbial "possession only" bullshiat. Fix that and you pretty much got about 10,000 out of prison if you are lucky, and many more out of jail i admit, but not prisons. What about the other million to get us down to a rate close to farking Turkey and Russia. 1 million people out, to just get to farking Turkey and Russia levels.

This issue is a monster and it has no major traction with either party. Lotta lip service, no major traction.


No one likes to be "weak on crime" because the opposition will Willie Horton you every single time, and every single time it will farking work with the majority of voters, even in blue states.

So, yeah, farking BSAB.
 
2021-04-11 8:40:25 AM  

MarciusDecimus: While i respectfully disagree on the convoluted part, I literally stated both side are responsible for this, so, yeah, thanks captain obvious for repeating such.

Now, explain to me the following if both sides are not responsible:

Democrats have had trifecta, veto proof, control of California for almost a decade, why in 2019 (last pre covid official numbers) did they have 122,000 people in prison and a rate higher than all western democracies?

New York has a veto proof trifecta control by Democrats, 43,500 incarcerated, a rate greater than all but 60 or so countries, they beat israel at least.

Illinois, trifecta now and had it between 2003 and 2014, 38,000 with rate ranking just about at california levels.

Delaware, trifecta control since 2009. 21st highest rate in US. Would be 15th, 15th in the world, if delaware was a country. Fifteenth, beaten by such liberal democracies as cuba.

I will grant the fact that mass incarceration is typically worse in red states, as they dominate the top 20 rates, but mass incarceration is an issue NO political party has truly taken on where it really matters: STOP MAKING THINGS ILLEGAL and LESSEN SENTENCES. Everyone is focused on the proverbial "possession only" bullshiat. Fix that and you pretty much got about 10,000 out of prison if you are lucky, and many more out of jail i admit, but not prisons. What about the other million to get us down to a rate close to farking Turkey and Russia. 1 million people out, to just get to farking Turkey and Russia levels.

This issue is a monster and it has no major traction with either party. Lotta lip service, no major traction.


No one likes to be "weak on crime" because the opposition will Willie Horton you every single time, and every single time it will farking work with the majority of voters, even in blue states.

So, yeah, farking BSAB.


I'm 100% fine with dissing the Democrats for being milquetoast centrists, but why didn't you just go with per capita figures, instead of with raw population numbers?

Per capita, the top10 states for prisoners are:

Louisiana
Oklahoma
Mississippi
Georgia
Kentucky
Alabama
Arkansas
Texas
Arizona
Tennessee.

On that list, California is #32 out of 50 states.
New York is #43 out of 50 states.
Illinois is #36 out of 15 states.
Delaware is #22 out of 15 states.

All except Delaware are below the average for incarcerations.

When ranked with per capita prison populations, the states with the highest rates heavily skew Republican.  The states with the lowest rates heavily skew Democrat.
 
2021-04-11 9:29:15 AM  
i think theres some amount of hyperbole in these tweets..  csb, my wife is a nurse at a prison, they were vaccinating prisoners in December. They took the threat seriously and worked to hard to keep covid out of the prison as much as possible. Prisons arent great, and their practices and procedures vary across the country. but the idea that people who work at prisons treat prisoners with cruelty as a policy is bullshiat.
 
2021-04-11 9:48:49 AM  
I still remember reading a tweet from Eric back in very early january last year warning about a mystery illness in china that was about to explode worldwide.

And I never had to hoard toilet paper because of it.
 
2021-04-11 1:03:56 PM  
To Wish Impossible Things:

with respect my friend, I did mention your point as well.

"I will grant the fact that mass incarceration is typically worse in red states, as they dominate the top 20 rates"

My point was that even when the Democratic party is in charge, they still incarcerate at a rate higher than any other democratic nation, except Israel.

So yes, you are right, blue states are, in general, better. But, in the context of this discussion, that is akin to saying "Well city A only had 10 deaths above normal for COVID, and City B had 20" and the person listening says "but yeah, are they not both at least 10 deaths above normal?"

With respect to your points though, I will amend it and say, both sides are bad, but one side is worse.
 
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