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(CNBC)   We're in the midst of a global pandemic that may or may not be getting better, so WHY NOT start up a new airline?   (cnbc.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Airline, Andrew Levy, Southwest Airlines, CEO of Avelo, Airport, low-cost carrier, Delta Air Lines, late April  
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390 clicks; posted to Business » on 08 Apr 2021 at 2:05 PM (8 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



21 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-04-08 1:46:49 PM  
Burbank to Sonoma $19 each way!
 
2021-04-08 2:06:09 PM  
Lot of pent up demand, and presumably some good prices to be had in aircraft leasing.
 
2021-04-08 2:06:45 PM  
"Avelo is a low-cost carrier"

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/can't believe i got to use that two days in a row... what a time to be alive!
 
2021-04-08 2:17:50 PM  
Must be going after the MAGA's who are boycotting all the existing airlines.
 
2021-04-08 2:22:55 PM  

Gubbo: Lot of pent up demand, and presumably some good prices to be had in aircraft leasing.


Yep. I think it actually is an excellent time to swoop in (heh) with a new airline!
 
2021-04-08 2:32:53 PM  
All the things he says about smaller airports and point-to-point routes being preferred by travelers is accurate, but Delta isn't avoiding that business model because they're jerks or because they're stupid.  It's because the profit is never really there.
 
2021-04-08 4:13:49 PM  

Rapmaster2000: All the things he says about smaller airports and point-to-point routes being preferred by travelers is accurate, but Delta isn't avoiding that business model because they're jerks or because they're stupid.  It's because the profit is never really there.


You're right, and the airline graveyard says it.  That said, if you were going to focus on one secondary airport anywhere in the US and expecting very little connecting traffic, Burbank is by far the lowest hanging fruit for that model.  If you can get a good agreement on gate/landing fees... it might work.
 
2021-04-08 4:34:49 PM  

TheSubjunctive: Rapmaster2000: All the things he says about smaller airports and point-to-point routes being preferred by travelers is accurate, but Delta isn't avoiding that business model because they're jerks or because they're stupid.  It's because the profit is never really there.

You're right, and the airline graveyard says it.  That said, if you were going to focus on one secondary airport anywhere in the US and expecting very little connecting traffic, Burbank is by far the lowest hanging fruit for that model.  If you can get a good agreement on gate/landing fees... it might work.


I think this might have worked better also when secondary airports like Love Field and Midway were truly 2nd tier.  Midway pre-renovation was like a bus station but with airplanes.  I'm not a gate fee expert, but I would guess the price is less of a discount than it was 30 years ago.

I've flown ATA, AirTran, and a short lived airline called Vanguard out of the old Midway.  Ever since the renovation, I've always flown Delta.
 
2021-04-08 4:43:36 PM  
Old joke:

You know how to become a millionaire?

Be a billionaire and start an airline.


I suspect the net profit of every airline ever in existence since the Wright Brothers invented the thing is a number in the negative tens of billions of dollars.

High fixed costs, high variable costs, high unionization, high demand swings, high government regulation, one crash and you're screwed, and competition by governments and narcissistic assholes (like Trump, who once owned an airline) who have other motivations than making money.  Worst business model ever.
 
2021-04-08 4:48:09 PM  

Rapmaster2000: TheSubjunctive: Rapmaster2000: All the things he says about smaller airports and point-to-point routes being preferred by travelers is accurate, but Delta isn't avoiding that business model because they're jerks or because they're stupid.  It's because the profit is never really there.

You're right, and the airline graveyard says it.  That said, if you were going to focus on one secondary airport anywhere in the US and expecting very little connecting traffic, Burbank is by far the lowest hanging fruit for that model.  If you can get a good agreement on gate/landing fees... it might work.

I think this might have worked better also when secondary airports like Love Field and Midway were truly 2nd tier.  Midway pre-renovation was like a bus station but with airplanes.  I'm not a gate fee expert, but I would guess the price is less of a discount than it was 30 years ago.

I've flown ATA, AirTran, and a short lived airline called Vanguard out of the old Midway.  Ever since the renovation, I've always flown Delta.


Southwest business strategy has been to fly to secondary airport as it's cheaper and less ground delays.
 
2021-04-08 4:50:42 PM  

Geotpf: Old joke:

You know how to become a millionaire?

Be a billionaire and start an airline.

I suspect the net profit of every airline ever in existence since the Wright Brothers invented the thing is a number in the negative tens of billions of dollars.

High fixed costs, high variable costs, high unionization, high demand swings, high government regulation, one crash and you're screwed, and competition by governments and narcissistic assholes (like Trump, who once owned an airline) who have other motivations than making money.  Worst business model ever.


Airlines just received their second billion dollar tax payer funded bailout in 20 years.

I'd say it's a pretty dam good business to be in, second only to banking.
 
2021-04-08 4:56:14 PM  
Probably lots of used planes on the market.
 
2021-04-08 5:00:04 PM  

mcreadyblue: Geotpf: Old joke:

You know how to become a millionaire?

Be a billionaire and start an airline.

I suspect the net profit of every airline ever in existence since the Wright Brothers invented the thing is a number in the negative tens of billions of dollars.

High fixed costs, high variable costs, high unionization, high demand swings, high government regulation, one crash and you're screwed, and competition by governments and narcissistic assholes (like Trump, who once owned an airline) who have other motivations than making money.  Worst business model ever.

Airlines just received their second billion dollar tax payer funded bailout in 20 years.

I'd say it's a pretty dam good business to be in, second only to banking.


I dunno.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of​_​defunct_airlines_of_the_United_States_​(A%E2%80%93C)

(and that's just A through C and just in the USA; the list was so long they broke it up into four parts)
 
2021-04-08 5:00:45 PM  
Larry Air?
 
2021-04-08 5:10:32 PM  
Impeded Airways
 
2021-04-08 5:36:01 PM  

Rapmaster2000: I've flown ATA, AirTran, and a short lived airline called Vanguard out of the old Midway.  Ever since the renovation, I've always flown Delta.


As a KC-area flyer, I have a hard time thinking of Vanguard as that short-lived... I guess it was only eight years, but it was the only truly KC airline.

Not that I miss them the way I will forever miss pre-9/11 "all leather seats, beer, brat, and cookie included" Midwest Express.
 
2021-04-08 5:53:53 PM  

Geotpf: mcreadyblue: Geotpf: Old joke:

You know how to become a millionaire?

Be a billionaire and start an airline.

I suspect the net profit of every airline ever in existence since the Wright Brothers invented the thing is a number in the negative tens of billions of dollars.

High fixed costs, high variable costs, high unionization, high demand swings, high government regulation, one crash and you're screwed, and competition by governments and narcissistic assholes (like Trump, who once owned an airline) who have other motivations than making money.  Worst business model ever.

Airlines just received their second billion dollar tax payer funded bailout in 20 years.

I'd say it's a pretty dam good business to be in, second only to banking.

I dunno.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_​defunct_airlines_of_the_United_States_​(A%E2%80%93C)

(and that's just A through C and just in the USA; the list was so long they broke it up into four parts)


Just because an airline goes defunct does not mean money was made.

In fact, maybe too much money was made.  Carl Icahn bled lots of money from TWA, Eastern, and Continental.

There's a lot of money to made.  American Airlines is comprised of former US Air, America West, TWA, Reno Air, Air California, Mohawk, etc.
 
2021-04-08 6:04:19 PM  

mcreadyblue: Geotpf: mcreadyblue: Geotpf: Old joke:

You know how to become a millionaire?

Be a billionaire and start an airline.

I suspect the net profit of every airline ever in existence since the Wright Brothers invented the thing is a number in the negative tens of billions of dollars.

High fixed costs, high variable costs, high unionization, high demand swings, high government regulation, one crash and you're screwed, and competition by governments and narcissistic assholes (like Trump, who once owned an airline) who have other motivations than making money.  Worst business model ever.

Airlines just received their second billion dollar tax payer funded bailout in 20 years.

I'd say it's a pretty dam good business to be in, second only to banking.

I dunno.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_​defunct_airlines_of_the_United_States_​(A%E2%80%93C)

(and that's just A through C and just in the USA; the list was so long they broke it up into four parts)

Just because an airline goes defunct does not mean money was made.

In fact, maybe too much money was made.  Carl Icahn bled lots of money from TWA, Eastern, and Continental.

There's a lot of money to made.  American Airlines is comprised of former US Air, America West, TWA, Reno Air, Air California, Mohawk, etc.


...because it bought the bankrupt remains of each of those airlines.
 
2021-04-08 7:15:42 PM  
Uwe Boll Airlines.  We'll get you to the scene of the crash or your next flight is free.
 
2021-04-08 7:21:06 PM  

Geotpf: mcreadyblue: Geotpf: mcreadyblue: Geotpf: Old joke:

You know how to become a millionaire?

Be a billionaire and start an airline.

I suspect the net profit of every airline ever in existence since the Wright Brothers invented the thing is a number in the negative tens of billions of dollars.

High fixed costs, high variable costs, high unionization, high demand swings, high government regulation, one crash and you're screwed, and competition by governments and narcissistic assholes (like Trump, who once owned an airline) who have other motivations than making money.  Worst business model ever.

Airlines just received their second billion dollar tax payer funded bailout in 20 years.

I'd say it's a pretty dam good business to be in, second only to banking.

I dunno.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_​defunct_airlines_of_the_United_States_​(A%E2%80%93C)

(and that's just A through C and just in the USA; the list was so long they broke it up into four parts)

Just because an airline goes defunct does not mean money was made.

In fact, maybe too much money was made.  Carl Icahn bled lots of money from TWA, Eastern, and Continental.

There's a lot of money to made.  American Airlines is comprised of former US Air, America West, TWA, Reno Air, Air California, Mohawk, etc.

...because it bought the bankrupt remains of each of those airlines.


They called that corporate raiding back in the day.

Take over a company, strip the assets, sell off the remaining to someone else.

Carl Icanh took over TWA in 1985, took a personal profit of $469 million and left TWA with  $540 in debt.

He was heralded as a genius.
 
2021-04-08 8:40:24 PM  
Markets are often underserved for a reason.  Given the route map it doesn't seem that promising, but launching from Burbank does give an advantage that it avoids the black hole that is LAX.  Ontario or Long Beach also may have been good options but I am assuming they shopped around and gate fees were lowest at Burbank.
 
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