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(Guardian)   If we continue to use trichloroethylene medical researchers are expecting a whole lot more shaking going on   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, United States Environmental Protection Agency, future of Parkinson, risk of TCE, National Priorities List Superfund sites, researcher Briana de Miranda, author of Ending Parkinson, Dr Ray Dorsey, TCE  
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4860 clicks; posted to Main » and STEM » on 08 Apr 2021 at 1:17 AM (10 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-04-07 6:44:48 PM  
Another reason for the EPA to have teeth. Real teeth.
 
2021-04-07 11:43:26 PM  
I used TCE daily during my military service, what could possibly go wrong?  


/csb
 
2021-04-08 1:21:57 AM  
This is why I never clean or polish anything.
 
2021-04-08 1:23:08 AM  
My first experience with TCE? I was going to clean some metal parts in a bucket of the stuff. Not being completely stupid, I put on latex gloves. In ten seconds, the gloves dissolved, and my hands began to really burn. I washed them off, but it was already too late. I could actually watch welts rising on the backs of my hands from the mix of TCE and dissolved latex.
 
2021-04-08 1:27:22 AM  

iToad: My first experience with TCE? I was going to clean some metal parts in a bucket of the stuff. Not being completely stupid, I put on latex gloves. In ten seconds, the gloves dissolved, and my hands began to really burn. I washed them off, but it was already too late. I could actually watch welts rising on the backs of my hands from the mix of TCE and dissolved latex.


For that deep clean feeling and belached white bones. :(
 
2021-04-08 1:30:19 AM  
Every spring for the past 20 years I've considered doing a thorough carpet cleaning. Glad I've decided no every year. Just buy another throw rug to cover the new stain. I'll buy all new carpet eventually. Maybe dark brown with a subtle pattern.
 
2021-04-08 1:31:09 AM  

Bennie Crabtree: iToad: My first experience with TCE? I was going to clean some metal parts in a bucket of the stuff. Not being completely stupid, I put on latex gloves. In ten seconds, the gloves dissolved, and my hands began to really burn. I washed them off, but it was already too late. I could actually watch welts rising on the backs of my hands from the mix of TCE and dissolved latex.

For that deep clean feeling and belached white bones. :(


Don't forget: If you're using the stuff regularly, as part of your job, then you probably work for minimum wage. You can BARELY afford a place to live and a vehicle, if you eat nothing but ramen.
But if you really want to change that, you should spend several hundred thousand dollars on college courses. Sleep in your car; if you don't sleep in your car, in front of your school/place of employment, then you're not REALLY serious about getting ahead.

Also, those farkers who laugh at you because of it? They rule, you suck. Deal with it, loser.

/Some people unironically think that last sentence is truth
 
2021-04-08 1:31:15 AM  
a chemical compound used in industrial degreasing, dry-cleaning and household products such as some shoe polishes and carpet cleaners

Oh no, what will I use to polish my shoes now.
 
2021-04-08 1:33:54 AM  

iToad: My first experience with TCE? I was going to clean some metal parts in a bucket of the stuff. Not being completely stupid, I put on latex gloves. In ten seconds, the gloves dissolved, and my hands began to really burn. I washed them off, but it was already too late. I could actually watch welts rising on the backs of my hands from the mix of TCE and dissolved latex.


I once cleaned the starter on my riding mower by spraying the shiat out of it with chlorinated brake cleaner (TCE-based). I got it all over my forearm. I didn't feel anything at first, but after half an hour or so, my arm started burning.

/Luckily, it never progressed beyond slight burning.
//Probably gave myself arm cancer, though.
///Starter worked fine.
 
2021-04-08 1:38:57 AM  
They have plenty of alternatives to TCE now. If you're still using it you're part of the dark ages.

Switch to something new and safe that we don't know the side effects of yet.
 
2021-04-08 1:42:11 AM  

Patmaniac: Every spring for the past 20 years I've considered doing a thorough carpet cleaning. Glad I've decided no every year. Just buy another throw rug to cover the new stain. I'll buy all new carpet eventually. Maybe dark brown with a subtle pattern.


It was expensive, but I put down a tile floor throughout my entire house. It was one of my better improvements. Now I don't worry about staining or wear.
 
2021-04-08 1:44:09 AM  

Begoggle: a chemical compound used in industrial degreasing, dry-cleaning and household products such as some shoe polishes and carpet cleaners

Oh no, what will I use to polish my shoes now.


Toronto is overflowing with drycleaning shops. It's cheap, it's everywhere, and they're always full.
 
2021-04-08 1:44:21 AM  
We were banned from using this crap 40 years ago. Not because of any neuro issues but because it can produce phosgene when heated. That shiat will seriously fark you up.
 
2021-04-08 1:45:42 AM  
I'm curious if they have done a study focusing on dry-cleaning workers. You'd get everything you want over the past 70 years in that population.
 
2021-04-08 1:49:32 AM  

Patmaniac: Every spring for the past 20 years I've considered doing a thorough carpet cleaning. Glad I've decided no every year. Just buy another throw rug to cover the new stain. I'll buy all new carpet eventually. Maybe dark brown with a subtle pattern.


But every year that makes your ceiling lower. If your not careful you'll soon be bumping your head.
 
2021-04-08 1:51:12 AM  
The ironic thing about TCE is that it replaced something even worse, Carbon Tetrachloride. If you are of a certain age and grew up in the industrial Midwest, you would be familiar with Carbon Tet. It had a very bad reputation.
 
jvl [BareFark]
2021-04-08 1:51:50 AM  
If it's caused by Dry Cleaning, shoe polish, and household cleaners, then the rates of Parkinsons should be plummeting.  It used to be people went to work in dry-cleaned suits with polished shows and homemakers cleaned a lot.

Also since the US uses it a lot and other countries have banned it, show me the study that shows US Parkinsons is going up while the other country is going down.

Nonsense story published by the Guardian sounds a lot like nonsense.
 
2021-04-08 1:53:49 AM  
This is why I stick to straight benzene for all my organic solvent needs.  I prefer knowing what cancers I will get.
 
2021-04-08 2:07:53 AM  

jjorsett: Patmaniac: Every spring for the past 20 years I've considered doing a thorough carpet cleaning. Glad I've decided no every year. Just buy another throw rug to cover the new stain. I'll buy all new carpet eventually. Maybe dark brown with a subtle pattern.

It was expensive, but I put down a tile floor throughout my entire house. It was one of my better improvements. Now I don't worry about staining or wear.


I did my lower level 100% in ceramic about 15 years ago. Super easy to maintain, and it's been bone dry down there ever since.
 
2021-04-08 2:12:10 AM  

jjorsett: Patmaniac: Every spring for the past 20 years I've considered doing a thorough carpet cleaning. Glad I've decided no every year. Just buy another throw rug to cover the new stain. I'll buy all new carpet eventually. Maybe dark brown with a subtle pattern.

It was expensive, but I put down a tile floor throughout my entire house. It was one of my better improvements. Now I don't worry about staining or wear.


I've gotten to the point where I just find carpet "weird" inside a house. Wall to wall carpet is clean what, once a year for a few days maybe after you rent one of those machines? That shiat gets gross.
 
2021-04-08 2:14:27 AM  
In the Army, we used trike like Frank's hot sauce. We put that shiat on everything.
 
2021-04-08 2:20:24 AM  
Some one I work with started showing symptoms a couple of months ago and went to get a diagnosis.  It's Parkinson's and man I feel for the dude.
 
2021-04-08 2:33:54 AM  

wildcardjack: I'm curious if they have done a study focusing on dry-cleaning workers. You'd get everything you want over the past 70 years in that population.


They would, but there aren't any old dry cleaners..

Patmaniac: Every spring for the past 20 years I've considered doing a thorough carpet cleaning. Glad I've decided no every year. Just buy another throw rug to cover the new stain. I'll buy all new carpet eventually. Maybe dark brown with a subtle pattern.


media.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2021-04-08 3:05:31 AM  

Begoggle: a chemical compound used in industrial degreasing, dry-cleaning and household products such as some shoe polishes and carpet cleaners

Oh no, what will I use to polish my shoes now.


When in doubt, rub chunky peanut butter on it.
 
2021-04-08 3:05:36 AM  

jvl: If it's caused by Dry Cleaning, shoe polish, and household cleaners, then the rates of Parkinsons should be plummeting.  It used to be people went to work in dry-cleaned suits with polished shows and homemakers cleaned a lot.

Also since the US uses it a lot and other countries have banned it, show me the study that shows US Parkinsons is going up while the other country is going down.

Nonsense story published by the Guardian sounds a lot like nonsense.


Even taken at face value, never a good idea with limey yellow (yellow-green?) journalism, the numbers are not even troubling.
A very rare disease appear at 6x the normal incidence with long-term occupational exposure?
Which really means the average joe who uses carpet cleaner or polishes his shoes a couple times per year has an added risk somewhere in the realm of the ISS landing on them.
-
/If it doesn't turn out to be another "menial occupations with long hours that pay for shiat lead to poor health outcomes" story
 
2021-04-08 3:12:58 AM  
Behold! A prophet!

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-04-08 4:11:01 AM  
A friend of mine lived in Silicon Valley and his well got contaminated with TCE. When you washed your hands they tingled. After a shower your entire body did.

Intel was the culprit and ended up paying for the pipes for city water to all the houses. I'm not sure if they just capped the wells or cleaned them up.

In Livermore they closed down a fab plant and no one ever rented it because it was a superfund-like site. IIRC the building is still there all sealed up.

That stuff is bad.
 
2021-04-08 4:19:34 AM  

SumoJeb: This is why I stick to straight benzene for all my organic solvent needs.  I prefer knowing what cancers I will get.


Or just use EverClear?
 
2021-04-08 4:27:13 AM  
I clean my floors and carpets with the vodka I accidentally spill on them. It seems to work. I become less worried about dirty floors anyway.
 
2021-04-08 4:31:06 AM  
I worked with 1-1-1 trichloroethane, trichloroethylene's crazier sister, without gloves every working day for nearly 10 years. It was phased out 20 years ago in the US because of the dangers while trichloroethylene may still be used as a dry cleaning agent. They have greener stuff but like most alternatives it just doesn't do what the original does. Oh well.
 
2021-04-08 4:32:39 AM  

The Southern Dandy: In the Army, we used trike like Frank's hot sauce. We put that shiat on everything.


Air Force too. Hated paint shop duty.
 
2021-04-08 5:45:59 AM  

Schrodinger's toilet trained cat: I used TCE daily during my military service, what could possibly go wrong?  


/csb


Working as an analytical chemist for an industrial waste company, I screen drums of waste from quite a few industries. Whenever a government load comes in I know there's pretty much a 50-50 shot the stuff will be hazardous for trichloroethene or tetrachloroethene. No private industry even comes close to that rate.

I can only guess that military bases have years worth of these degreasers stockpiled. Or, since it's taxpayer money, they don't care that the disposal will cost 5-10x normal disposal.

/getting a kick...
 
2021-04-08 5:57:56 AM  

jvl: If it's caused by Dry Cleaning, shoe polish, and household cleaners, then the rates of Parkinsons should be plummeting.


There's this thing called 'environmental persistence' you should Google.

/putting a degreasing agent into the environment?
//what could go wrong?
///our nerves are insulated by some type of grease you say?
 
2021-04-08 7:19:55 AM  

jjorsett: Patmaniac: Every spring for the past 20 years I've considered doing a thorough carpet cleaning. Glad I've decided no every year. Just buy another throw rug to cover the new stain. I'll buy all new carpet eventually. Maybe dark brown with a subtle pattern.

It was expensive, but I put down a tile floor throughout my entire house. It was one of my better improvements. Now I don't worry about staining or wear.


Depending on the texture of the tile, though, you end up going through a lot of socks.
 
2021-04-08 8:08:49 AM  
animekev: I worked with 1-1-1 trichloroethane, trichloroethylene's crazier sister, without gloves every working day for nearly 10 years. It was phased out 20 years ago in the US because of the dangers while trichloroethylene may still be used as a dry cleaning agent. They have greener stuff but like most alternatives it just doesn't do what the original does. Oh well.

Tap magic was what we used , they banned it ,, It work very well for drilling stainless and other hard metals.
Plus as an added bonus it had a very nice aroma of cinnamon.
 
2021-04-08 8:14:35 AM  

animekev: I worked with 1-1-1 trichloroethane, trichloroethylene's crazier sister, without gloves every working day for nearly 10 years. It was phased out 20 years ago in the US because of the dangers while trichloroethylene may still be used as a dry cleaning agent. They have greener stuff but like most alternatives it just doesn't do what the original does. Oh well.


I had a little vat of trichlorotrifluoroethane (1,1,2-Trichloro-1,2,2-trifluoroethane​) on my bench back when I was an electronics assembler. Stuff was great for dunking lead paint chips in for breaktime snacking goodness.
 
2021-04-08 8:14:51 AM  

Bob Down: Not because of any neuro issues but because it can produce phosgene when heated. That shiat will seriously fark you up.


I used to work for a chemical manufacturer, and one of the plants produced both phosphene and phosgene gas. Because of their toxicity, there was an alarm- if a leak happened, everyone in the danger zone would know about it. However, if you worked at the plant, the alarm wasn't your cue to evacuate, it was your cue to smoke 'em if you've got 'em, because you won't be able to get away.
 
2021-04-08 8:47:52 AM  

Fara Clark: The Southern Dandy: In the Army, we used trike like Frank's hot sauce. We put that shiat on everything.

Air Force too. Hated paint shop duty.


Air Force Ground Radio Tech here, used this stuff all the time to clean circuit boards and relay contacts. Nasty smelling too.
 
2021-04-08 8:52:27 AM  
I mixed TCE with LSD and everything was melting

/JK; TCE is bad, Whirlpool left our town and left an underground plume of that stuff.
 
2021-04-08 9:13:35 AM  
I've seen it in a former life.  My least favorite was the TCE area sealed in by a secondary plastic wall-and-ceiling-like surrounding.  And there were 3 or 4 guys who work in that bubble all day.  It was like a zoo exhibit.  I can't tell if they came out the same as when they went in on their first day, but they were some rough looking individuals.  Probably dead by now.
 
2021-04-08 10:20:24 AM  

Patmaniac: Every spring for the past 20 years I've considered doing a thorough carpet cleaning. Glad I've decided no every year. Just buy another throw rug to cover the new stain. I'll buy all new carpet eventually. Maybe dark brown with a subtle pattern.


I've been cleaning our dark brown carpet with a subtle pattern every month.  Nothing ever matches the dirt the dogs drag in.  No TCE in the cleaner or the stain remover.
 
2021-04-08 10:27:48 AM  
I knew a guy in Denver that owned Jack's Carpet Cleaning, he died from cancer of the everything after 30 or 40 years of using tri-and perchlorethylene. Nasty stuff.
 
2021-04-08 11:33:50 AM  
I almost never do any of those things. I did work in a photo processing lab for 9 years. No mask.

(shrug)
 
2021-04-08 11:46:35 AM  
1,1,1 best degreaser ever made.

I'm not twitching, you're twitching.
 
2021-04-08 12:08:19 PM  
I do mapping for an environmental remediation firm. Sites contaminated with TCE require massive levels of intervention to get rid of the stuff. TCE will stay in soil until you remove it. It leaches into the aquifer and contaminates the ground water people will eventually drink, cook with, and bathe in.

Worst case scenario, it can leach into old sewer systems and wind up being transported miles from where the original contamination took place. Because a lot of American infrastructure is older, chemicals like TCE get trapped in all the nooks & crannies of old sewer pipes; this means you often have to replace entire sewage systems to get rid of it. Not surprisingly, this kind of remediation takes lots of time and money.

As you can imagine, not too many people want to be on the hook for decades of TCE cleanup. It's often less expensive for a company to pay someone's medical bills for cancer or Parkinson's than it is for them to pay for the cleanup. If we didn't have environmental laws mandating remediation, it would never take place. This is a big part of why we need robust environmental protection.
 
2021-04-08 12:18:05 PM  
This is a handy website address to keep by the MSDS binder
https://emergency.cdc.gov/chemical/in​d​ex.asp
 
2021-04-08 4:47:42 PM  

Patmaniac: Every spring for the past 20 years I've considered doing a thorough carpet cleaning. Glad I've decided no every year. Just buy another throw rug to cover the new stain. I'll buy all new carpet eventually. Maybe dark brown with a subtle pattern.


Eventually, rugs are your carpet
 
2021-04-08 8:07:58 PM  

t3knomanser: Bob Down: Not because of any neuro issues but because it can produce phosgene when heated. That shiat will seriously fark you up.

I used to work for a chemical manufacturer, and one of the plants produced both phosphene and phosgene gas. Because of their toxicity, there was an alarm- if a leak happened, everyone in the danger zone would know about it. However, if you worked at the plant, the alarm wasn't your cue to evacuate, it was your cue to smoke 'em if you've got 'em, because you won't be able to get away.


But what about lung cancer?
 
2021-04-08 10:13:00 PM  

Bob Down: But what about lung cancer?


I can pretty much guarantee that if you're near a phosphene leak, you won't die of lung cancer.
 
2021-04-09 12:37:28 AM  

t3knomanser: Bob Down: But what about lung cancer?

I can pretty much guarantee that if you're near a phosphene leak, you won't die of lung cancer.


ThatsTheJoke.png
 
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