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(Al Jazeera)   Left-wing party opposed to mining wins Greenland vote, which seems totally unfair since their opponents only now figured out how to kill that elk boss and get the antler pickaxe   (aljazeera.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Greenland, Denmark, large rare-earth mining project, south of the Arctic island, Iceland, mining complex, comfortable victory, Inuit  
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743 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Apr 2021 at 2:35 PM (4 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



42 Comments     (+0 »)
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4 days ago  
I'm getting really tired of the NIMBYism w.r.t. mining in developed countries. Personally I would rather have most global mining happening in countries with developed labor and environmental protection laws. The alternative isn't that mining just doesn't happen. Instead a rainforest will be burned and poorly trained workers will be exploited.
 
4 days ago  

b2theory: I'm getting really tired of the NIMBYism w.r.t. mining in developed countries. Personally I would rather have most global mining happening in countries with developed labor and environmental protection laws. The alternative isn't that mining just doesn't happen. Instead a rainforest will be burned and poorly trained workers will be exploited.


I agree in some respect, but the problem is still that mining companies get away with murder wherever they dig. Sufficient environmental protection laws would help minimize NIMBYism.

/'at least it's not as bad as [x]' isn't a winning sales pitch
 
4 days ago  

b2theory: I'm getting really tired of the NIMBYism w.r.t. mining in developed countries. Personally I would rather have most global mining happening in countries with developed labor and environmental protection laws. The alternative isn't that mining just doesn't happen. Instead a rainforest will be burned and poorly trained workers will be exploited.


Last I saw, in Canada, mining is consiered a green industry and it gets tons of federal subsidies for being green. The mines are not green, they just changed the law (another Stephen Herper omnibus bill).
 
4 days ago  
At first I read that as "miming".
 
4 days ago  

b2theory: I'm getting really tired of the NIMBYism w.r.t. mining in developed countries. Personally I would rather have most global mining happening in countries with developed labor and environmental protection laws. The alternative isn't that mining just doesn't happen. Instead a rainforest will be burned and poorly trained workers will be exploited.


Metal mining operations are toxic and can only profit when they don't need to safely dispose all that toxic waste from purifying the ore. It's not simply digging a hole in the ground.
 
4 days ago  
Yeah, that eco-tourism is a great alternative solution to push. Your people will love low paying jobs in the service and hospitality sectors for all the rich tourists clamoring to go to farking Greenland.
 
4 days ago  
Greenland has regulated the mining industry for the past 11 years exclusively and has regulated themselves regarding environmental and compensation.  Here is some information on the subject. https://www.lexology.com/lib​rary/detai​l.aspx?g=4f55d3ae-c021-4867-a366-db82a​74a3c05
 
4 days ago  
If you want new energy sources and electric cars, you need mining. You can't have it both ways.

I'm hoping to get an electric car before they are the majority so I can win red light drag races
 
4 days ago  

Daedalus27: Greenland has regulated the mining industry for the past 11 years exclusively and has regulated themselves regarding environmental and compensation.  Here is some information on the subject. https://www.lexology.com/libr​ary/detail.aspx?g=4f55d3ae-c021-4867-a​366-db82a74a3c05


Wait wait wait. I was told that Greenland was really just one giant glacier that, while once settled by the Vikings, had returned to being a frozen, uninhabited wasteland? :P
 
4 days ago  

OldJames: If you want new energy sources and electric cars, you need mining. You can't have it both ways.

I'm hoping to get an electric car before they are the majority so I can win red light drag races


Big problem is that mining for rare earth materials needed for electronics and such is, IIRC, more environmentally damaging than just for things like steel or aluminum.
 
4 days ago  

Wake Up Sheeple: b2theory: I'm getting really tired of the NIMBYism w.r.t. mining in developed countries. Personally I would rather have most global mining happening in countries with developed labor and environmental protection laws. The alternative isn't that mining just doesn't happen. Instead a rainforest will be burned and poorly trained workers will be exploited.

Metal mining operations are toxic and can only profit when they don't need to safely dispose all that toxic waste from purifying the ore. It's not simply digging a hole in the ground.


Doesn't that sort of depend on what kind of metal you're extracting? Like, if I am mining iron ore, all I really need to do to extract the iron from the rock is to crush it, heat it up until the iron melts, then filter out the rock slag, afaik.

It's not like gold which requires cyanide leaching and whatnot to process it.
 
4 days ago  
First it's the wildlife, then it's the rest of the forrest. Before you know it, even the lowest swamps and highest mountain tops aren't safe.
 
4 days ago  
This is why the fossil fuels giants have been pushing to accelerate global warming for the last half-century.   No ice cap, no Arctic ice, easy and cheap extraction.
 
4 days ago  

b2theory: I'm getting really tired of the NIMBYism w.r.t. mining in developed countries. Personally I would rather have most global mining happening in countries with developed labor and environmental protection laws. The alternative isn't that mining just doesn't happen. Instead a rainforest will be burned and poorly trained workers will be exploited.


But if we allowed mining in the states, where would middle and upper class white people go to take selfies and look at their phones?
 
4 days ago  
So how do I upgrade my workbench to level 6?
 
4 days ago  

Wake Up Sheeple: b2theory: I'm getting really tired of the NIMBYism w.r.t. mining in developed countries. Personally I would rather have most global mining happening in countries with developed labor and environmental protection laws. The alternative isn't that mining just doesn't happen. Instead a rainforest will be burned and poorly trained workers will be exploited.

Metal mining operations are toxic and can only profit when they don't need to safely dispose all that toxic waste from purifying the ore. It's not simply digging a hole in the ground.


I am well aware of that. You are making my point.
 
4 days ago  
I can still grab up all the tin on the coast tho right? It's laying right on top.
 
4 days ago  
upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
4 days ago  

b2theory: Wake Up Sheeple: b2theory: I'm getting really tired of the NIMBYism w.r.t. mining in developed countries. Personally I would rather have most global mining happening in countries with developed labor and environmental protection laws. The alternative isn't that mining just doesn't happen. Instead a rainforest will be burned and poorly trained workers will be exploited.

Metal mining operations are toxic and can only profit when they don't need to safely dispose all that toxic waste from purifying the ore. It's not simply digging a hole in the ground.

I am well aware of that. You are making my point.


Au contraire. You're proving my own. No one wants a toxic mine in their backyard when the toxic part about it hasn't been solved where a private company can be trusted not to cut corners for profit, then file bankruptcy and run when the environment disaster is discovered.
 
4 days ago  

Kit Fister: Wake Up Sheeple: b2theory: I'm getting really tired of the NIMBYism w.r.t. mining in developed countries. Personally I would rather have most global mining happening in countries with developed labor and environmental protection laws. The alternative isn't that mining just doesn't happen. Instead a rainforest will be burned and poorly trained workers will be exploited.

Metal mining operations are toxic and can only profit when they don't need to safely dispose all that toxic waste from purifying the ore. It's not simply digging a hole in the ground.

Doesn't that sort of depend on what kind of metal you're extracting? Like, if I am mining iron ore, all I really need to do to extract the iron from the rock is to crush it, heat it up until the iron melts, then filter out the rock slag, afaik.

It's not like gold which requires cyanide leaching and whatnot to process it.


You're not simply digging up iron ore and nothing else. A lot of what gets dug up is toxic when concentrated and allowed to leech back into waterways and water tables.
 
4 days ago  

b2theory: I'm getting really tired of the NIMBYism w.r.t. mining in developed countries. Personally I would rather have most global mining happening in countries with developed labor and environmental protection laws. The alternative isn't that mining just doesn't happen. Instead a rainforest will be burned and poorly trained workers will be exploited.


If Greenland could follow the mode of Norway and preserve the wealth of mining operations largely in trust to the people who will live with the consequences for the next century and more, maybe it would be worth supporting it. But if I can redirect your attention to a certain holding pool in Florida where they did the mining then left the consequences to future generations, you might expand your perspective.

Greenland was about to follow the mode of cashing in, take the money and run style mining. Maybe they can work something out to honestly reserve enough of the profits to do adequate environmental restoration afterwards but it isn't clear we even know what that fully entails right now. With climate change radically affecting Greenland right now, the potential effects of heavy metal rich acidic trailing wash in the local seas is foreboding, especially in an ocean that is rapidly acidifying already. The idea that the local fish catch will be packed full of heavy metals isn't something that you would want if you value your great grandchildren's health.
 
4 days ago  

OldJames: If you want new energy sources and electric cars, you need mining. You can't have it both ways.

I'm hoping to get an electric car before they are the majority so I can win red light drag races


"We can't allow private industry to make an FSMawful mess that the taxpayers will eventually have to soak up" isn't having it both ways. The necessary environmental protections are signaling the higher, correct pricing of limited resources to the market.

If oil hadn't been so ridiculously protected from ever being priced correctly to account for the boatloads of negative externalities of its own extraction/consumption, it'd have been properly priced wayyyy higher for decades into the past, consumption would've been dramatically reduced, and substitutes to everything in this world predicated on the artificially-low price of crude oil would've arisen long ago.

/thanks to the global spread of capitalism, we were doomed
//capitalists push 'taxes baaad!' because there's no capitalism if it can't arbitrage on the market failures it creates
 
4 days ago  

wademh: if you value your great grandchildren's health


Laissez-fail Farkers don't give one shiat about that, despite their endless (hilariously-wrong) rhetoric claiming that the only reason people work is to provide for their families' future.

/unless they're admitting, between the lines, that everyone else can die for all they care
//hmmmm... which complete failure will they stake claim to?
 
4 days ago  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
4 days ago  
Who knew that most Greenlanders are Inuit, like 88%.  The party that won gave that away.  We used to call them by another name in Alaska, eat their pies.
 
4 days ago  

Wake Up Sheeple: b2theory: I'm getting really tired of the NIMBYism w.r.t. mining in developed countries. Personally I would rather have most global mining happening in countries with developed labor and environmental protection laws. The alternative isn't that mining just doesn't happen. Instead a rainforest will be burned and poorly trained workers will be exploited.

Metal mining operations are toxic and can only profit when they don't need to safely dispose all that toxic waste from purifying the ore. It's not simply digging a hole in the ground.


This cannot be understated. Mines are horrifyingly toxic, in what they release into the environment all around them.

And the Silents and Boomers have blessed us with so many leftover ones, because it's far simpler and more profitable to just bankrupt the company and walk away than it is to spend decades cleaning up after your mine.
 
4 days ago  

Wake Up Sheeple: b2theory: Wake Up Sheeple: b2theory: I'm getting really tired of the NIMBYism w.r.t. mining in developed countries. Personally I would rather have most global mining happening in countries with developed labor and environmental protection laws. The alternative isn't that mining just doesn't happen. Instead a rainforest will be burned and poorly trained workers will be exploited.

Metal mining operations are toxic and can only profit when they don't need to safely dispose all that toxic waste from purifying the ore. It's not simply digging a hole in the ground.

I am well aware of that. You are making my point.

Au contraire. You're proving my own. No one wants a toxic mine in their backyard when the toxic part about it hasn't been solved where a private company can be trusted not to cut corners for profit, then file bankruptcy and run when the environment disaster is discovered.


Again, the mining is going to happen no matter what. You are proving my point that you don't want to find a way to do it in a jurisdiction where you (the royal you) can make sure that it is done safely and cleanly. You will continue to demand it happen in a country that will guarantee the workers are not protected and no concern is given to the environment. But hey, who cares about them. You didn't have to deal with the complicated realities of modern materials and manufacturing while using your shinny new crap. They knew the risks.
 
4 days ago  

BigNumber12: Wake Up Sheeple: b2theory: I'm getting really tired of the NIMBYism w.r.t. mining in developed countries. Personally I would rather have most global mining happening in countries with developed labor and environmental protection laws. The alternative isn't that mining just doesn't happen. Instead a rainforest will be burned and poorly trained workers will be exploited.

Metal mining operations are toxic and can only profit when they don't need to safely dispose all that toxic waste from purifying the ore. It's not simply digging a hole in the ground.

This cannot be understated. Mines are horrifyingly toxic, in what they release into the environment all around them.

And the Silents and Boomers have blessed us with so many leftover ones, because it's far simpler and more profitable to just bankrupt the company and walk away than it is to spend decades cleaning up after your mine.


How about all new mining operations are required to setup a trust to deal with remediation and waste so that if the company goes bankrupt the site isn't just abandoned?
 
4 days ago  
A lot of people seemed to like that game, but I couldn't get into it.  Why can't I mine ore until I beat up a giant electrical deer?  It makes no sense.
 
4 days ago  

BigNumber12: Wake Up Sheeple: b2theory: I'm getting really tired of the NIMBYism w.r.t. mining in developed countries. Personally I would rather have most global mining happening in countries with developed labor and environmental protection laws. The alternative isn't that mining just doesn't happen. Instead a rainforest will be burned and poorly trained workers will be exploited.

Metal mining operations are toxic and can only profit when they don't need to safely dispose all that toxic waste from purifying the ore. It's not simply digging a hole in the ground.

This cannot be understated. Mines are horrifyingly toxic, in what they release into the environment all around them.

And the Silents and Boomers have blessed us with so many leftover ones, because it's far simpler and more profitable to just bankrupt the company and walk away than it is to spend decades cleaning up after your mine.


And they're still trying to argue with me that it can be done cleanly AND profitably, and, more hilariously, that it should fall on ME to design a profitable and clean mining operation instead of, you know, the mining operations themselves.
 
4 days ago  

b2theory: BigNumber12: Wake Up Sheeple: b2theory: I'm getting really tired of the NIMBYism w.r.t. mining in developed countries. Personally I would rather have most global mining happening in countries with developed labor and environmental protection laws. The alternative isn't that mining just doesn't happen. Instead a rainforest will be burned and poorly trained workers will be exploited.

Metal mining operations are toxic and can only profit when they don't need to safely dispose all that toxic waste from purifying the ore. It's not simply digging a hole in the ground.

This cannot be understated. Mines are horrifyingly toxic, in what they release into the environment all around them.

And the Silents and Boomers have blessed us with so many leftover ones, because it's far simpler and more profitable to just bankrupt the company and walk away than it is to spend decades cleaning up after your mine.

How about all new mining operations are required to setup a trust to deal with remediation and waste so that if the company goes bankrupt the site isn't just abandoned?


Not a terrible idea. Setting the size of the trust would be the particularly tricky bit.

It seems like it would have the added benefit of giving them financial incentive to operate as cleanly as possible.
 
4 days ago  
Headline made me lol.  +1 would read again.
 
4 days ago  

Kit Fister: OldJames: If you want new energy sources and electric cars, you need mining. You can't have it both ways.

I'm hoping to get an electric car before they are the majority so I can win red light drag races

Big problem is that mining for rare earth materials needed for electronics and such is, IIRC, more environmentally damaging than just for things like steel or aluminum.


Well, sort of but not really.  Rare metals actually aren't that rare.  They are all over.  They just aren't in high concentrations.  There aren't "rare metal" mines.  What you do is take the tailings from mining for something else and process that to extract the rare metals.  So in a way it is actually pretty "green".

Some of the processing methods can be damaging.  They don't have to be but in certain countries the cheaper/more damaging processes are common.  So cars are producing environmental damage, but not from the mining and if it were occurring in the evil USA the damage would be minimal.  But that would mean keeping jobs in the USA and helping their own citizens which is something that the entire Democratic party is against.
 
4 days ago  

BitwiseShift: Who knew that most Greenlanders are Inuit, like 88%.  The party that won gave that away.  We used to call them by another name in Alaska, eat their pies.


None of the natives here in Alaska are Inuit. Inupiat, Aluet, Yupik, etc, but not Inuit or Eskimo.
 
4 days ago  

BigNumber12: b2theory: BigNumber12: Wake Up Sheeple: b2theory: I'm getting really tired of the NIMBYism w.r.t. mining in developed countries. Personally I would rather have most global mining happening in countries with developed labor and environmental protection laws. The alternative isn't that mining just doesn't happen. Instead a rainforest will be burned and poorly trained workers will be exploited.

Metal mining operations are toxic and can only profit when they don't need to safely dispose all that toxic waste from purifying the ore. It's not simply digging a hole in the ground.

This cannot be understated. Mines are horrifyingly toxic, in what they release into the environment all around them.

And the Silents and Boomers have blessed us with so many leftover ones, because it's far simpler and more profitable to just bankrupt the company and walk away than it is to spend decades cleaning up after your mine.

How about all new mining operations are required to setup a trust to deal with remediation and waste so that if the company goes bankrupt the site isn't just abandoned?

Not a terrible idea. Setting the size of the trust would be the particularly tricky bit.

It seems like it would have the added benefit of giving them financial incentive to operate as cleanly as possible.


It's what they do with nuclear power plants
 
4 days ago  
Today I learned democratic socialism is "left-wing".  I guess making sure people don't die in a polluted street is somehow extremist now.
 
4 days ago  

Baloo Uriza: Today I learned democratic socialism is "left-wing".  I guess making sure people don't die in a polluted street is somehow extremist now.


Are you saying democratic socialism has a monopoly on having people not die on polluted streets? I would say the US keeps the streets pretty clean already without a fundamental shift in the way we govern ourselves.
 
3 days ago  
So the Greenlanders aren't going to allow an Australian mining company, majority-owned by the Chinese, to strip mine their country and leave behind a monster pile of tailings contaminated with Thorium. Are these people communists or something? Haven't they ever heard of the free market? Trump was right. we should have bought their country, deported them back to Denmark, and allowed somebody to make a buck or two...
 
3 days ago  
If you dig a deep trench around the spawn point the deer falls in and can't get out.  Then you shoot it with your crappy arrows.
 
3 days ago  

Subtonic: Yeah, that eco-tourism is a great alternative solution to push. Your people will love low paying jobs in the service and hospitality sectors for all the rich tourists clamoring to go to farking Greenland.


Greenland is fantastically beautiful. I can't wait to go back one day, and walk the 100k Arctic Circle trail from Kangerlussuaq to Sisimiut. Thoroughly enjoyed my time there on my last stint.
 
3 days ago  
When does the bombing start?
 
3 days ago  

Albinoman: BitwiseShift: Who knew that most Greenlanders are Inuit, like 88%.  The party that won gave that away.  We used to call them by another name in Alaska, eat their pies.

None of the natives here in Alaska are Inuit. Inupiat, Aluet, Yupik, etc, but not Inuit or Eskimo.


I stand corrected.  Possibly.
 
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