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(USA Today)   We are gonna get some great labor laws out of this   (usatoday.com) divider line
    More: Giggity, Trade union, Democratic Party, Republican Party, Nancy Pelosi, labor movement, Labour relations, labor laws, Employment  
•       •       •

3563 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Mar 2021 at 7:45 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-03-10 4:49:12 PM  
No, you won't. It won't get past the senate.

/Unless subby was being sarcastic
 
2021-03-10 7:49:53 PM  
Do you people not care about shareholder value?
 
2021-03-10 7:50:33 PM  
Just change up the messaging. shiatcan that old, tired "union" name and instead go with something like Warehouse Workers Benevolent Association of the Amazon Distribution Center in Union City, GA. It works for the cops!
 
2021-03-10 7:52:02 PM  

stilted: No, you won't. It won't get past the senate.

/Unless subby was being sarcastic


You think Manchin will kill it?
 
2021-03-10 7:54:45 PM  
I'm sure all the TV commentators, also known as SAG/AFTRA members, will have nothing but glowing praise, even at FOX, OAN, etc.
 
2021-03-10 7:55:31 PM  

foo monkey: Do you people not care about shareholder value?


No Walton left behind!

/A Walton's brain is a terrible thing to waste.
 
2021-03-10 7:56:02 PM  
I'm very open to redefining what it means to be an employee versus being an indy. I have a job that trained me in a certain way, to consider the differences under certain lights, so it will be interesting as I'm not yet old enough to fail at brain plasticity. Dear world: keep progressing.
 
2021-03-10 7:58:27 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-10 8:00:43 PM  
"The PRO Act would finally give workers the right to organize and form unions that they're supposed to have had under law for years and years, but that employers have routinely stripped them of because employers have broken and bent labor law to such an extent that the current labor law is virtually meaningless," Windham told USA TODAY.

I wonder who allowed that to happen??? You f*ckers gave the middle class the finger in the late 1970s and let Reagan's Revolution destroy unions and the middle class. If you really want to help, you'd remove the provision that says that strikes can be illegal (*fark you assholes*) and that the union heads have to sanction them. Unions are basically nothing more than backstops to prevent the loss of what is left of what our parents and grandparents had.

We witnessed UAW screw their workers in 2019 (and the leaders get arrested for stealing that money). We witnessed teacher's unions screw their members in 2018 and 2021. On and on it goes. When I think of those courageous Amazon workers in Alabama unionizing with a union that never gives anyone anything- only defends losses, I have to wonder if they shouldn't start a new union and get all Amazon workers to join and tell Amazon to either work with and for the employees that make them their billions of dollars or they can fall into bankruptcy and die.
 
2021-03-10 8:04:58 PM  
One Democrat voted against it: Henry Cuellar (Texas).

Fark user imageView Full Size

Know what? It's time to stop farking around. Strip him of his committee assignments. Mark him persona non grata. Back a primary challenger and send him home.
 
2021-03-10 8:06:53 PM  
Mitch McConnell says: "Sisto activitatem!"
 
2021-03-10 8:07:00 PM  

phrawgh: One Democrat voted against it: Henry Cuellar (Texas).

[Fark user image 283x178]
Know what? It's time to stop farking around. Strip him of his committee assignments. Mark him persona non grata. Back a primary challenger and send him home.


This is a good start. I agree.
 
2021-03-10 8:09:47 PM  

foo monkey: Do you people not care about shareholder value?


Nope

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-10 8:10:38 PM  

phrawgh: One Democrat voted against it: Henry Cuellar (Texas).

[Fark user image 283x178]
Know what? It's time to stop farking around. Strip him of his committee assignments. Mark him persona non grata. Back a primary challenger and send him home.


but dont you understand!!! hes in texas!
if he just changes his platform to be EXACTLY LIKE THE REPUBLICANS on every single republican wedge issue.  caves to them on every vote.  caters to their every whim.  does everything they want every single time. for his entire term.  theres a TINY TINY chance that 2 or 3 or maybe even FIVE republicans in his district might switch parties!

just ignore the thousands of democrats leaving the party b/c of his shiat and the massive piles of real harm his votes will/do cause in the mean time.  MOVE TO THE CENTER!
 
2021-03-10 8:12:10 PM  

The Irresponsible Captain: foo monkey: Do you people not care about shareholder value?

Nope

[Fark user image 425x405]


Which is why workers should be militant. Who has seen their employer provided health care costs go *down* in the last 20 years? Besides those who work for small businesses, who has seen their boss take less pay in order to keep yours at existing levels? Which employers have asked their employees how to spend the profit those employees helped make?
 
2021-03-10 8:12:35 PM  

The Irresponsible Captain: foo monkey: Do you people not care about shareholder value?

Nope

[Fark user image 425x405]


i'm deeply interested in the stock market.
it's where the criminal ruling class gambles with my livelihood.
 
2021-03-10 8:12:41 PM  

phrawgh: One Democrat voted against it: Henry Cuellar (Texas).

[Fark user image image 283x178]Know what? It's time to stop farking around. Strip him of his committee assignments. Mark him persona non grata. Back a primary challenger and send him home.


But what about elections?? Do you want the Republicans to take over?????

This is what we get told any time we criticize Democrats and think they should be held accountable for their assholery. I wonder what's different about this.
 
2021-03-10 8:14:06 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-10 8:15:16 PM  
Yeah, my first job as a stock boy at the local grocery was so much fun. Making under minimum wage for the three months I worked there because a significant amount of my paycheck each week went to pay for my union dues.
 
2021-03-10 8:16:39 PM  
Imagine a strong union presence during a pandemic, keeping workers safe and helping businesses stay open, like the TV and film industry.  OSHA was no where be found, so communities of crafts and guilds with common interests had to stand in for them.  The only national administrative government help was overwhelmed in planning a coup.
 
2021-03-10 8:20:55 PM  
First, I look forward to all of the idiots claiming that this is just proof of how un-progressive Biden is.  Second, this is just the first step necessary to fix our Oligarchy.  Next up is a TR level era of trust-busting, getting us out of our second gilded age.
 
2021-03-10 8:23:20 PM  
I'm sure Amazon won't waste anytime chewing it's knuckles. They'll soon have an army of lobbyists handing out generous favors all over DC, all to ensure that laborers continue being crushed under its all powerful wheels.

Amazon's kinda like pharaoh in days of yore. Laboring slaves meant nothing. So, let's get back to those good ol' days because your bones are going to build our bridges.
 
2021-03-10 8:23:36 PM  

BitwiseShift: Imagine a strong union presence during a pandemic, keeping workers safe and helping businesses stay open, like the TV and film industry.  OSHA was no where be found, so communities of crafts and guilds with common interests had to stand in for them.  The only national administrative government help was overwhelmed in planning a coup.


IATSE member here. I've been working the entire time. Obviously there hasn't been any shows, but my local has several venues that we have contracts for and we've been busy with upgrades and maintenance. At the moment I'm working on a sumo recording that will also be streamed after post production.
We've been following all the guidelines and we're also in a state that wasn't hit extremely hard with the virus, so we've been lucky and very fortunate.
The touring business has plans and guidelines being developed at the moment that include having all persons involved with any part of a production provide proof of vaccination before they can work.
 
2021-03-10 8:24:32 PM  

detonator: BitwiseShift: Imagine a strong union presence during a pandemic, keeping workers safe and helping businesses stay open, like the TV and film industry.  OSHA was no where be found, so communities of crafts and guilds with common interests had to stand in for them.  The only national administrative government help was overwhelmed in planning a coup.

IATSE member here. I've been working the entire time. Obviously there hasn't been any shows, but my local has several venues that we have contracts for and we've been busy with upgrades and maintenance. At the moment I'm working on a sumo recording that will also be streamed after post production.
We've been following all the guidelines and we're also in a state that wasn't hit extremely hard with the virus, so we've been lucky and very fortunate.
The touring business has plans and guidelines being developed at the moment that include having all persons involved with any part of a production provide proof of vaccination before they can work.


*symphony recording.
/damn spellcheck
 
2021-03-10 8:27:59 PM  

detonator: detonator: BitwiseShift: Imagine a strong union presence during a pandemic, keeping workers safe and helping businesses stay open, like the TV and film industry.  OSHA was no where be found, so communities of crafts and guilds with common interests had to stand in for them.  The only national administrative government help was overwhelmed in planning a coup.

IATSE member here. I've been working the entire time. Obviously there hasn't been any shows, but my local has several venues that we have contracts for and we've been busy with upgrades and maintenance. At the moment I'm working on a sumo recording that will also be streamed after post production.
We've been following all the guidelines and we're also in a state that wasn't hit extremely hard with the virus, so we've been lucky and very fortunate.
The touring business has plans and guidelines being developed at the moment that include having all persons involved with any part of a production provide proof of vaccination before they can work.

*symphony recording.
/damn spellcheck


Although the sumo recording would be cool...
 
2021-03-10 8:34:49 PM  

detonator: detonator: detonator: BitwiseShift: Imagine a strong union presence during a pandemic, keeping workers safe and helping businesses stay open, like the TV and film industry.  OSHA was no where be found, so communities of crafts and guilds with common interests had to stand in for them.  The only national administrative government help was overwhelmed in planning a coup.

IATSE member here. I've been working the entire time. Obviously there hasn't been any shows, but my local has several venues that we have contracts for and we've been busy with upgrades and maintenance. At the moment I'm working on a sumo recording that will also be streamed after post production.
We've been following all the guidelines and we're also in a state that wasn't hit extremely hard with the virus, so we've been lucky and very fortunate.
The touring business has plans and guidelines being developed at the moment that include having all persons involved with any part of a production provide proof of vaccination before they can work.

*symphony recording.
/damn spellcheck

Although the sumo recording would be cool...


My thoughts, too. lol

I hope they are keeping you safe and well paid.
 
2021-03-10 8:44:57 PM  

Nadie_AZ: detonator: detonator: detonator: BitwiseShift: Imagine a strong union presence during a pandemic, keeping workers safe and helping businesses stay open, like the TV and film industry.  OSHA was no where be found, so communities of crafts and guilds with common interests had to stand in for them.  The only national administrative government help was overwhelmed in planning a coup.

IATSE member here. I've been working the entire time. Obviously there hasn't been any shows, but my local has several venues that we have contracts for and we've been busy with upgrades and maintenance. At the moment I'm working on a sumo recording that will also be streamed after post production.
We've been following all the guidelines and we're also in a state that wasn't hit extremely hard with the virus, so we've been lucky and very fortunate.
The touring business has plans and guidelines being developed at the moment that include having all persons involved with any part of a production provide proof of vaccination before they can work.

*symphony recording.
/damn spellcheck

Although the sumo recording would be cool...

My thoughts, too. lol

I hope they are keeping you safe and well paid.


Cheers
Yeah, it's very safe. Everybody coming into the building gets their temperature taken and recorded, plus they have to fill out a list of people and places that they've been in contact with for the last 48 hours. We adhere to the guidelines very strictly.
I'm an audio guy, so there's a lot of cleaning and disinfecting of communication headsets and microphones, etc. The venues are publicly owned, and they definitely don't want to be the origin of a new hotspot, so we're pretty diligent.
I take public transportation to and from work, and it goes past the homeless mission each way.  THOSE guys are the guys I gotta worry about. I saw one guy try to get on with a pillowcase wrapped around his pie hole....
 
2021-03-10 8:45:59 PM  

Wanderlusting: Yeah, my first job as a stock boy at the local grocery was so much fun. Making under minimum wage for the three months I worked there because a significant amount of my paycheck each week went to pay for my union dues.


Shouldn't your anger go to the store that paid you so little?
 
2021-03-10 9:51:04 PM  

Wanderlusting: Yeah, my first job as a stock boy at the local grocery was so much fun. Making under minimum wage for the three months I worked there because a significant amount of my paycheck each week went to pay for my union dues.


Solid story from a trustworthy source.
 
2021-03-10 9:59:08 PM  

It's pronounced pacKAGE: Wanderlusting: Yeah, my first job as a stock boy at the local grocery was so much fun. Making under minimum wage for the three months I worked there because a significant amount of my paycheck each week went to pay for my union dues.

Shouldn't your anger go to the store that paid you so little?


Medic Zero: Wanderlusting: Yeah, my first job as a stock boy at the local grocery was so much fun. Making under minimum wage for the three months I worked there because a significant amount of my paycheck each week went to pay for my union dues.

Solid story from a trustworthy source.


https://www.reddit.com/r/kroger/comme​n​ts/4rjs6s/union_dues/

Not at all unusual. Initiation dues are most of your first paycheck and then they take $10-20/week from you. So, yeah, if you're part of a union, it could be more than your cell phone bill in dues. To someone making minimum wage, that shiat matters.

Farking thieves.
 
2021-03-10 10:01:57 PM  
Now, I'm not against unions, I'm just against unions forcing people to be a part of them if they don't want to be a part of them. It's legalized theft (because unlike taxes, you don't get a say in how much or for what purpose your dues go for).

https://www.galioninquirer.com/opinio​n​/57338/opinion-column-consider-the-inj​ustice-of-forced-union-dues
 
2021-03-10 10:26:37 PM  

Wanderlusting: Now, I'm not against unions, I'm just against unions forcing people to be a part of them if they don't want to be a part of them. It's legalized theft (because unlike taxes, you don't get a say in how much or for what purpose your dues go for).

https://www.galioninquirer.com/opinion​/57338/opinion-column-consider-the-inj​ustice-of-forced-union-dues


p sure unions have elections to determine their leadership
 
2021-03-10 10:27:49 PM  

detonator: Nadie_AZ: detonator: detonator: detonator: BitwiseShift: Imagine a strong union presence during a pandemic, keeping workers safe and helping businesses stay open, like the TV and film industry.  OSHA was no where be found, so communities of crafts and guilds with common interests had to stand in for them.  The only national administrative government help was overwhelmed in planning a coup.

IATSE member here. I've been working the entire time. Obviously there hasn't been any shows, but my local has several venues that we have contracts for and we've been busy with upgrades and maintenance. At the moment I'm working on a sumo recording that will also be streamed after post production.
We've been following all the guidelines and we're also in a state that wasn't hit extremely hard with the virus, so we've been lucky and very fortunate.
The touring business has plans and guidelines being developed at the moment that include having all persons involved with any part of a production provide proof of vaccination before they can work.

*symphony recording.
/damn spellcheck

Although the sumo recording would be cool...

My thoughts, too. lol

I hope they are keeping you safe and well paid.

Cheers
Yeah, it's very safe. Everybody coming into the building gets their temperature taken and recorded, plus they have to fill out a list of people and places that they've been in contact with for the last 48 hours. We adhere to the guidelines very strictly.
I'm an audio guy, so there's a lot of cleaning and disinfecting of communication headsets and microphones, etc. The venues are publicly owned, and they definitely don't want to be the origin of a new hotspot, so we're pretty diligent.
I take public transportation to and from work, and it goes past the homeless mission each way.  THOSE guys are the guys I gotta worry about. I saw one guy try to get on with a pillowcase wrapped around his pie hole....


I was so glad to read that IA (Stagehands by another name), SAG/AFTRA, Teamsters and all the unions and guilds involved in TV and Film production got together, produced a 60 page rule book, required a compliance officer on site, segregated production groups (so that if one of a group got sick, only a small portion was quarantined) -- the adult way to produce in the middle of a deadly pandemic.

Previously, the special adult film industry had to come up with new rules when HIV and AIDS showed up.  Mostly talent, I'm guessing, had to pay attention to that.  Now it's everywhere.

Funny that all TV talking heads and "talk show level" politicians are in SAG/AFTRA (except Trump who was booted a few weeks ago) that no one talks about how workable solutions take work.

If you watch SNL carefully, they purposely show the 2 meter pool noodles carried by the crew, and even make jokes about what is now the reality of a working set.

It's really sad that live performances, especial big group symphony and opera, are just stuck.  When 13 members of a 15 member church choir all get COVID at year ago, you know that the performer's instrument, his lungs, are not going to be safe to use.
 
2021-03-10 10:38:21 PM  

New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: Now, I'm not against unions, I'm just against unions forcing people to be a part of them if they don't want to be a part of them. It's legalized theft (because unlike taxes, you don't get a say in how much or for what purpose your dues go for).

https://www.galioninquirer.com/opinion​/57338/opinion-column-consider-the-inj​ustice-of-forced-union-dues

p sure unions have elections to determine their leadership


Yep. That's why so many unions were part of yuge scandals for union led RICO charges. Face it, there was nothing honorable about Jimmy Hoffa or any other Teamster/Union/Criminal Org.

http://www.righttowork.org/foundation​-​action/sepoct02.pdf

Oh hey ... a grocery store workers union involved in a corruption scandal. I'm shocked I tell you, SHOCKED!
 
2021-03-10 10:42:24 PM  

Wanderlusting: Now, I'm not against unions, I'm just against unions forcing people to be a part of them if they don't want to be a part of them. It's legalized theft (because unlike taxes, you don't get a say in how much or for what purpose your dues go for).

https://www.galioninquirer.com/opinion​/57338/opinion-column-consider-the-inj​ustice-of-forced-union-dues


You can always go work somewhere else. Isn't that how it works with any other condition of employment?
 
2021-03-10 10:42:47 PM  

BitwiseShift: detonator: Nadie_AZ: detonator: detonator: detonator: BitwiseShift: Imagine a strong union presence during a pandemic, keeping workers safe and helping businesses stay open, like the TV and film industry.  OSHA was no where be found, so communities of crafts and guilds with common interests had to stand in for them.  The only national administrative government help was overwhelmed in planning a coup.

IATSE member here. I've been working the entire time. Obviously there hasn't been any shows, but my local has several venues that we have contracts for and we've been busy with upgrades and maintenance. At the moment I'm working on a sumo recording that will also be streamed after post production.
We've been following all the guidelines and we're also in a state that wasn't hit extremely hard with the virus, so we've been lucky and very fortunate.
The touring business has plans and guidelines being developed at the moment that include having all persons involved with any part of a production provide proof of vaccination before they can work.

*symphony recording.
/damn spellcheck

Although the sumo recording would be cool...

My thoughts, too. lol

I hope they are keeping you safe and well paid.

Cheers
Yeah, it's very safe. Everybody coming into the building gets their temperature taken and recorded, plus they have to fill out a list of people and places that they've been in contact with for the last 48 hours. We adhere to the guidelines very strictly.
I'm an audio guy, so there's a lot of cleaning and disinfecting of communication headsets and microphones, etc. The venues are publicly owned, and they definitely don't want to be the origin of a new hotspot, so we're pretty diligent.
I take public transportation to and from work, and it goes past the homeless mission each way.  THOSE guys are the guys I gotta worry about. I saw one guy try to get on with a pillowcase wrapped around his pie hole....

I was so glad to read that IA (Stagehands by another name), SAG/AFTRA, Teamsters and all the unions and guilds involved in TV and Film production got together, produced a 60 page rule book, required a compliance officer on site, segregated production groups (so that if one of a group got sick, only a small portion was quarantined) -- the adult way to produce in the middle of a deadly pandemic.

Previously, the special adult film industry had to come up with new rules when HIV and AIDS showed up.  Mostly talent, I'm guessing, had to pay attention to that.  Now it's everywhere.

Funny that all TV talking heads and "talk show level" politicians are in SAG/AFTRA (except Trump who was booted a few weeks ago) that no one talks about how workable solutions take work.

If you watch SNL carefully, they purposely show the 2 meter pool noodles carried by the crew, and even make jokes about what is now the reality of a working set.

It's really sad that live performances, especial big group symphony and opera, are just stuck.  When 13 members of a 15 member church choir all get COVID at year ago, you know that the performer's instrument, his lungs, are not going to be safe to use.


We've done choir recordings this past year. They weren't live; it was twelve singers at a time, each singer spaced thirty feet apart so they could sing without masks. We then layered that several times until we got the entire 100- member choir recorded.
It was for a xmas recording so the choir could have something to raise money with, as most of the arts groups make their nut for the year at xmas.
Our symphony is strings only right now, and everyone is masked and six feet apart. We record the five rehearsals then do a performance that is also videotaped (for lack of a better word) and they do some post production, then stream it.
My admin guys bought a bunch of video gear and streaming stuff, and it's giving a lot of people work again. Our local covid level just went from "high" to "moderate", so we can do more of these gigs as "recordings" and build the public enthusiasm (hopefully) back up.
We have 12 stagehands working this gig, plus sixty musicians, as well as the security, janitorial, and admin people. We might not be back to full 100-person crew shows, but we will be busy until things open up again. it's a start.
 
2021-03-10 10:46:26 PM  

Wanderlusting: New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: Now, I'm not against unions, I'm just against unions forcing people to be a part of them if they don't want to be a part of them. It's legalized theft (because unlike taxes, you don't get a say in how much or for what purpose your dues go for).

https://www.galioninquirer.com/opinion​/57338/opinion-column-consider-the-inj​ustice-of-forced-union-dues

p sure unions have elections to determine their leadership

Yep. That's why so many unions were part of yuge scandals for union led RICO charges. Face it, there was nothing honorable about Jimmy Hoffa or any other Teamster/Union/Criminal Org.

http://www.righttowork.org/foundation-​action/sepoct02.pdf

Oh hey ... a grocery store workers union involved in a corruption scandal. I'm shocked I tell you, SHOCKED!


what the hell does that have to do with what we were talking about
 
2021-03-10 11:13:42 PM  

New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: Now, I'm not against unions, I'm just against unions forcing people to be a part of them if they don't want to be a part of them. It's legalized theft (because unlike taxes, you don't get a say in how much or for what purpose your dues go for).

https://www.galioninquirer.com/opinion​/57338/opinion-column-consider-the-inj​ustice-of-forced-union-dues

p sure unions have elections to determine their leadership

Yep. That's why so many unions were part of yuge scandals for union led RICO charges. Face it, there was nothing honorable about Jimmy Hoffa or any other Teamster/Union/Criminal Org.

http://www.righttowork.org/foundation-​action/sepoct02.pdf

Oh hey ... a grocery store workers union involved in a corruption scandal. I'm shocked I tell you, SHOCKED!

what the hell does that have to do with what we were talking about


That forced union membership by and large is a negative thing. Again, I have no issue with unions. If people want to collectively bargain with their employees, they should be freely able to do so.

However, should someone not want to be a member of the union, they should have the option and the freedom to not be a member of that union.

What's interesting is that - by any other name - most people would be against regressive payments like union dues. Seems taxing poor people is fine as long as you call it union membership dues.
 
2021-03-11 12:55:00 AM  

Wanderlusting: New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: Now, I'm not against unions, I'm just against unions forcing people to be a part of them if they don't want to be a part of them. It's legalized theft (because unlike taxes, you don't get a say in how much or for what purpose your dues go for).

https://www.galioninquirer.com/opinion​/57338/opinion-column-consider-the-inj​ustice-of-forced-union-dues

p sure unions have elections to determine their leadership

Yep. That's why so many unions were part of yuge scandals for union led RICO charges. Face it, there was nothing honorable about Jimmy Hoffa or any other Teamster/Union/Criminal Org.

http://www.righttowork.org/foundation-​action/sepoct02.pdf

Oh hey ... a grocery store workers union involved in a corruption scandal. I'm shocked I tell you, SHOCKED!

what the hell does that have to do with what we were talking about

That forced union membership by and large is a negative thing. Again, I have no issue with unions. If people want to collectively bargain with their employees, they should be freely able to do so.

However, should someone not want to be a member of the union, they should have the option and the freedom to not be a member of that union.

What's interesting is that - by any other name - most people would be against regressive payments like union dues. Seems taxing poor people is fine as long as you call it union membership dues.


So, are you advocating "free riding"? Where you benefit from the contract the union bargained for, without having to support it?
In my job, my union contract standardizes the work environment and keeps my pay up to a livable wage and benefits. I don't know what the supermarket cashiers were getting, but I bet it was way above what you'd make in the same job in a non union job, and that the conditions were better.
And yes, there is corruption; Al Capone once ran the stagehand union.
 
2021-03-11 1:18:22 AM  

detonator: Wanderlusting: New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: Now, I'm not against unions, I'm just against unions forcing people to be a part of them if they don't want to be a part of them. It's legalized theft (because unlike taxes, you don't get a say in how much or for what purpose your dues go for).

https://www.galioninquirer.com/opinion​/57338/opinion-column-consider-the-inj​ustice-of-forced-union-dues

p sure unions have elections to determine their leadership

Yep. That's why so many unions were part of yuge scandals for union led RICO charges. Face it, there was nothing honorable about Jimmy Hoffa or any other Teamster/Union/Criminal Org.

http://www.righttowork.org/foundation-​action/sepoct02.pdf

Oh hey ... a grocery store workers union involved in a corruption scandal. I'm shocked I tell you, SHOCKED!

what the hell does that have to do with what we were talking about

That forced union membership by and large is a negative thing. Again, I have no issue with unions. If people want to collectively bargain with their employees, they should be freely able to do so.

However, should someone not want to be a member of the union, they should have the option and the freedom to not be a member of that union.

What's interesting is that - by any other name - most people would be against regressive payments like union dues. Seems taxing poor people is fine as long as you call it union membership dues.

So, are you advocating "free riding"? Where you benefit from the contract the union bargained for, without having to support it?
In my job, my union contract standardizes the work environment and keeps my pay up to a livable wage and benefits. I don't know what the supermarket cashiers were getting, but I bet it was way above what you'd make in the same job in a non union job, and that the conditions were better.
And yes, there is corruption; Al Capone once ran the stagehand union.


Minimum wage is minimum wage. And the unions actually make it so prior experience can't be used for pay bump. What that means is everyone starts at minimum wage and with seniority comes higher pay - rather than experience or added skillsets.
 
2021-03-11 1:25:22 AM  
Your use of the phrase "if people want to bargain collectively with their employees" is telling me that you obviously take management's side in this discussion, and not labor's.
I don't know what your experience was in the job you've cited, but in my job, if you don't have the chops to do the job then you get the good job, pushing boxes around. Seniority only means something when you can back it up with a skill set that means something. If you have a lot of seniority and haven't developed a skill set to get you on more gigs, that's your problem.
 
2021-03-11 1:29:41 AM  

Wanderlusting: detonator: Wanderlusting: New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: Now, I'm not against unions, I'm just against unions forcing people to be a part of them if they don't want to be a part of them. It's legalized theft (because unlike taxes, you don't get a say in how much or for what purpose your dues go for).

https://www.galioninquirer.com/opinion​/57338/opinion-column-consider-the-inj​ustice-of-forced-union-dues

p sure unions have elections to determine their leadership

Yep. That's why so many unions were part of yuge scandals for union led RICO charges. Face it, there was nothing honorable about Jimmy Hoffa or any other Teamster/Union/Criminal Org.

http://www.righttowork.org/foundation-​action/sepoct02.pdf

Oh hey ... a grocery store workers union involved in a corruption scandal. I'm shocked I tell you, SHOCKED!

what the hell does that have to do with what we were talking about

That forced union membership by and large is a negative thing. Again, I have no issue with unions. If people want to collectively bargain with their employees, they should be freely able to do so.

However, should someone not want to be a member of the union, they should have the option and the freedom to not be a member of that union.

What's interesting is that - by any other name - most people would be against regressive payments like union dues. Seems taxing poor people is fine as long as you call it union membership dues.

So, are you advocating "free riding"? Where you benefit from the contract the union bargained for, without having to support it?
In my job, my union contract standardizes the work environment and keeps my pay up to a livable wage and benefits. I don't know what the supermarket cashiers were getting, but I bet it was way above what you'd make in the same job in a non union job, and that the conditions were better.
And yes, there is corruption; Al Capone once ran the stagehand union.

Minimum wage is minimum wage. And the unions actually make it so prior experience can't be used for pay bump. What that means is everyone starts at minimum wage and with seniority comes higher pay - rather than experience or added skillsets.


That's a broad brush. Maybe seniority worjs that way in supermarkets, but not for what I do. We all get pay raises when we negotiate a new contract too.
 
2021-03-11 1:34:12 AM  

detonator: Your use of the phrase "if people want to bargain collectively with their employees" is telling me that you obviously take management's side in this discussion, and not labor's.
I don't know what your experience was in the job you've cited, but in my job, if you don't have the chops to do the job then you get the good job, pushing boxes around. Seniority only means something when you can back it up with a skill set that means something. If you have a lot of seniority and haven't developed a skill set to get you on more gigs, that's your problem.


To be honest, with everyone biatching about how expensive housing is and how they can't afford homes, I have to question how they square that circle with prevailing wage from unionized labor adding tens of thousands of dollars of cost to their already "overpriced" homes.

Prevailing wage raises total develop- ment costs by approximately $53,000 per unit, or by 13 percent.

And remember, that's for "affordable housing." So, I guess pick your poison. If labor goes up, so do the prices of what you're buying.

Hope poor people can just find more money otherwise all those union jobs are just pricing them out of the market.
 
2021-03-11 1:46:33 AM  

detonator: Wanderlusting: detonator: Wanderlusting: New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: Now, I'm not against unions, I'm just against unions forcing people to be a part of them if they don't want to be a part of them. It's legalized theft (because unlike taxes, you don't get a say in how much or for what purpose your dues go for).

https://www.galioninquirer.com/opinion​/57338/opinion-column-consider-the-inj​ustice-of-forced-union-dues

p sure unions have elections to determine their leadership

Yep. That's why so many unions were part of yuge scandals for union led RICO charges. Face it, there was nothing honorable about Jimmy Hoffa or any other Teamster/Union/Criminal Org.

http://www.righttowork.org/foundation-​action/sepoct02.pdf

Oh hey ... a grocery store workers union involved in a corruption scandal. I'm shocked I tell you, SHOCKED!

what the hell does that have to do with what we were talking about

That forced union membership by and large is a negative thing. Again, I have no issue with unions. If people want to collectively bargain with their employees, they should be freely able to do so.

However, should someone not want to be a member of the union, they should have the option and the freedom to not be a member of that union.

What's interesting is that - by any other name - most people would be against regressive payments like union dues. Seems taxing poor people is fine as long as you call it union membership dues.

So, are you advocating "free riding"? Where you benefit from the contract the union bargained for, without having to support it?
In my job, my union contract standardizes the work environment and keeps my pay up to a livable wage and benefits. I don't know what the supermarket cashiers were getting, but I bet it was way above what you'd make in the same job in a non union job, and that the conditions were better.
And yes, there is corruption; Al Capone once ran the stagehand union.

Minimum wage is minimum wage. And the unions actually make it so prior experience can't be used for pay bump. What that means is everyone starts at minimum wage and with seniority comes higher pay - rather than experience or added skillsets.

That's a broad brush. Maybe seniority worjs that way in supermarkets, but not for what I do. We all get pay raises when we negotiate a new contract too.


Can you imagine how frustrating it would be to be a newly hired member of the staff that does twice as much work as the old fart in the corner knowing that his job is safe and you're the first one out the door when layoffs are announced?

Except as specified herein, in terminating the employment of an employee, other than for good cause, the Employer agrees to abide by the seniority rule, which means the length of employment, and that the employment of the last employee employed by the Employer shall be the first (1st) to be terminated.

Union terms like these encourage career atrophy knowing that they're jobs are more secure the longer they are employed rather than evaluating each employee on their merit and value to the organization.
 
2021-03-11 2:12:26 AM  

Wanderlusting: detonator: Your use of the phrase "if people want to bargain collectively with their employees" is telling me that you obviously take management's side in this discussion, and not labor's.
I don't know what your experience was in the job you've cited, but in my job, if you don't have the chops to do the job then you get the good job, pushing boxes around. Seniority only means something when you can back it up with a skill set that means something. If you have a lot of seniority and haven't developed a skill set to get you on more gigs, that's your problem.

To be honest, with everyone biatching about how expensive housing is and how they can't afford homes, I have to question how they square that circle with prevailing wage from unionized labor adding tens of thousands of dollars of cost to their already "overpriced" homes.

Prevailing wage raises total develop- ment costs by approximately $53,000 per unit, or by 13 percent.

And remember, that's for "affordable housing." So, I guess pick your poison. If labor goes up, so do the prices of what you're buying.

Hope poor people can just find more money otherwise all those union jobs are just pricing them out of the market.


"Prevailing wages" generally come into play when the employer is a government entity; the concept is that the government has an obligation to meet higher standards for a number of reasons. Saving money as a capitalist would do doesn't necessarily come into play then.
Subsidized housing is there to meet several other requirements that help move bureaucracy along, and there is a lot of assistance available for those who qualify.
I grew up very poor; both of my parents were disabled, and there were seven kids. If it wasn't for the housing act of 1965 we would've been out on the street.
 
2021-03-11 2:19:08 AM  

Wanderlusting: detonator: Wanderlusting: detonator: Wanderlusting: New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: Now, I'm not against unions, I'm just against unions forcing people to be a part of them if they don't want to be a part of them. It's legalized theft (because unlike taxes, you don't get a say in how much or for what purpose your dues go for).

https://www.galioninquirer.com/opinion​/57338/opinion-column-consider-the-inj​ustice-of-forced-union-dues

p sure unions have elections to determine their leadership

Yep. That's why so many unions were part of yuge scandals for union led RICO charges. Face it, there was nothing honorable about Jimmy Hoffa or any other Teamster/Union/Criminal Org.

http://www.righttowork.org/foundation-​action/sepoct02.pdf

Oh hey ... a grocery store workers union involved in a corruption scandal. I'm shocked I tell you, SHOCKED!

what the hell does that have to do with what we were talking about

That forced union membership by and large is a negative thing. Again, I have no issue with unions. If people want to collectively bargain with their employees, they should be freely able to do so.

However, should someone not want to be a member of the union, they should have the option and the freedom to not be a member of that union.

What's interesting is that - by any other name - most people would be against regressive payments like union dues. Seems taxing poor people is fine as long as you call it union membership dues.

So, are you advocating "free riding"? Where you benefit from the contract the union bargained for, without having to support it?
In my job, my union contract standardizes the work environment and keeps my pay up to a livable wage and benefits. I don't know what the supermarket cashiers were getting, but I bet it was way above what you'd make in the same job in a non union job, and that the conditions were better.
And yes, there is corruption; Al Capone once ran the stagehand union.

Minimum wage is minimum wage. And the unions actually make it so prior experience can't be used for pay bump. What that means is everyone starts at minimum wage and with seniority comes higher pay - rather than experience or added skillsets.

That's a broad brush. Maybe seniority worjs that way in supermarkets, but not for what I do. We all get pay raises when we negotiate a new contract too.

Can you imagine how frustrating it would be to be a newly hired member of the staff that does twice as much work as the old fart in the corner knowing that his job is safe and you're the first one out the door when layoffs are announced?

Except as specified herein, in terminating the employment of an employee, other than for good cause, the Employer agrees to abide by the seniority rule, which means the length of employment, and that the employment of the last employee employed by the Employer shall be the first (1st) to be terminated.

Union terms like these encourage career atrophy knowing that they're jobs are more secure the longer they are employed rather than evaluating each employee on their merit and value to the organization.


That "old guy in the corner" mightve negotiated a lot of past contracts, and maybe it looked like he was slacking, but maybe he paid his dues for a long time and earned a different kind of respect than what you think he does. Maybe he participated in union tasks, like participating in a committees to set policies.
Maybe he was a slacker. I don't know.
I do know this; it's illegal for the union to be an employer. They just represent the workers. The employer was the supermarket and if they had a problem with his slacking then they would've done something about it. If he was confronted with that, he could request his Weingarten rights to representation and have a discussion about it with a witness from his union. If what he did or didn't do was undefendable, then he's farked.
 
2021-03-11 2:29:25 AM  

detonator: Wanderlusting: detonator: Wanderlusting: detonator: Wanderlusting: New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: Now, I'm not against unions, I'm just against unions forcing people to be a part of them if they don't want to be a part of them. It's legalized theft (because unlike taxes, you don't get a say in how much or for what purpose your dues go for).

https://www.galioninquirer.com/opinion​/57338/opinion-column-consider-the-inj​ustice-of-forced-union-dues

p sure unions have elections to determine their leadership

Yep. That's why so many unions were part of yuge scandals for union led RICO charges. Face it, there was nothing honorable about Jimmy Hoffa or any other Teamster/Union/Criminal Org.

http://www.righttowork.org/foundation-​action/sepoct02.pdf

Oh hey ... a grocery store workers union involved in a corruption scandal. I'm shocked I tell you, SHOCKED!

what the hell does that have to do with what we were talking about

That forced union membership by and large is a negative thing. Again, I have no issue with unions. If people want to collectively bargain with their employees, they should be freely able to do so.

However, should someone not want to be a member of the union, they should have the option and the freedom to not be a member of that union.

What's interesting is that - by any other name - most people would be against regressive payments like union dues. Seems taxing poor people is fine as long as you call it union membership dues.

So, are you advocating "free riding"? Where you benefit from the contract the union bargained for, without having to support it?
In my job, my union contract standardizes the work environment and keeps my pay up to a livable wage and benefits. I don't know what the supermarket cashiers were getting, but I bet it was way above what you'd make in the same job in a non union job, and that the conditions were better.
And yes, there is corruption; Al Capone once ran the stagehand union.

Minimum wage is minimum wage. And the unions actually make it so prior experience can't be used for pay bump. What that means is everyone starts at minimum wage and with seniority comes higher pay - rather than experience or added skillsets.

That's a broad brush. Maybe seniority worjs that way in supermarkets, but not for what I do. We all get pay raises when we negotiate a new contract too.

Can you imagine how frustrating it would be to be a newly hired member of the staff that does twice as much work as the old fart in the corner knowing that his job is safe and you're the first one out the door when layoffs are announced?

Except as specified herein, in terminating the employment of an employee, other than for good cause, the Employer agrees to abide by the seniority rule, which means the length of employment, and that the employment of the last employee employed by the Employer shall be the first (1st) to be terminated.

Union terms like these encourage career atrophy knowing that they're jobs are more secure the longer they are employed rather than evaluating each employee on their merit and value to the organization.

That "old guy in the corner" mightve negotiated a lot of past contracts, and maybe it looked like he was slacking, but maybe he paid his dues for a long time and earned a different kind of respect than what you think he does. Maybe he participated in union tasks, like participating in a committees to set policies.
Maybe he was a slacker. I don't know.
I do know this; it's illegal for the union to be an employer. They just represent the workers. The employer was the supermarket and if they had a problem with his slacking then they would've done something about it. If he was confronted with that, he could request his Weingarten rights to representation and have a discussion about it with a witness from his union. If what he did or didn't do was undefendable, then he's farked.


Yeah, we all know how well unions are at holding their derelict employees to task ...

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2016/​0​1/cleveland_police_union_president_vow​s_to_get_fired_officers_jobs_back.html​

137 shots into an unarmed car? WE'RE GOING TO PROTECT YER JERB!

Give me a farking break. The only thing unions do is protect bad employees from facing the consequences of their actions.
 
2021-03-11 2:37:59 AM  

Wanderlusting: detonator: Wanderlusting: detonator: Wanderlusting: detonator: Wanderlusting: New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: New Farkin User Name: Wanderlusting: Now, I'm not against unions, I'm just against unions forcing people to be a part of them if they don't want to be a part of them. It's legalized theft (because unlike taxes, you don't get a say in how much or for what purpose your dues go for).

https://www.galioninquirer.com/opinion​/57338/opinion-column-consider-the-inj​ustice-of-forced-union-dues

p sure unions have elections to determine their leadership

Yep. That's why so many unions were part of yuge scandals for union led RICO charges. Face it, there was nothing honorable about Jimmy Hoffa or any other Teamster/Union/Criminal Org.

http://www.righttowork.org/foundation-​action/sepoct02.pdf

Oh hey ... a grocery store workers union involved in a corruption scandal. I'm shocked I tell you, SHOCKED!

what the hell does that have to do with what we were talking about

That forced union membership by and large is a negative thing. Again, I have no issue with unions. If people want to collectively bargain with their employees, they should be freely able to do so.

However, should someone not want to be a member of the union, they should have the option and the freedom to not be a member of that union.

What's interesting is that - by any other name - most people would be against regressive payments like union dues. Seems taxing poor people is fine as long as you call it union membership dues.

So, are you advocating "free riding"? Where you benefit from the contract the union bargained for, without having to support it?
In my job, my union contract standardizes the work environment and keeps my pay up to a livable wage and benefits. I don't know what the supermarket cashiers were getting, but I bet it was way above what you'd make in the same job in a non union job, and that the conditions were better.
And yes, there is corruption; Al Capone once ran the stagehand union.

Minimum wage is minimum wage. And the unions actually make it so prior experience can't be used for pay bump. What that means is everyone starts at minimum wage and with seniority comes higher pay - rather than experience or added skillsets.

That's a broad brush. Maybe seniority worjs that way in supermarkets, but not for what I do. We all get pay raises when we negotiate a new contract too.

Can you imagine how frustrating it would be to be a newly hired member of the staff that does twice as much work as the old fart in the corner knowing that his job is safe and you're the first one out the door when layoffs are announced?

Except as specified herein, in terminating the employment of an employee, other than for good cause, the Employer agrees to abide by the seniority rule, which means the length of employment, and that the employment of the last employee employed by the Employer shall be the first (1st) to be terminated.

Union terms like these encourage career atrophy knowing that they're jobs are more secure the longer they are employed rather than evaluating each employee on their merit and value to the organization.

That "old guy in the corner" mightve negotiated a lot of past contracts, and maybe it looked like he was slacking, but maybe he paid his dues for a long time and earned a different kind of respect than what you think he does. Maybe he participated in union tasks, like participating in a committees to set policies.
Maybe he was a slacker. I don't know.
I do know this; it's illegal for the union to be an employer. They just represent the workers. The employer was the supermarket and if they had a problem with his slacking then they would've done something about it. If he was confronted with that, he could request his Weingarten rights to representation and have a discussion about it with a witness from his union. If what he did or didn't do was undefendable, then he's farked.

Yeah, we all know how well unions are at holding their derelict employees to task ...

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2016/0​1/cleveland_police_union_president_vow​s_to_get_fired_officers_jobs_back.html

137 shots into an unarmed car? WE'RE GOING TO PROTECT YER JERB!

Give me a farking break. The only thing unions do is protect bad employees from facing the consequences of their actions.


Police unions ... well, I can't really defend them as a symbol of purity, can  I?
But to suggest that they represent what ALL unions are like is bullshiat. They represent their workers ONLY, and sone of their workers are pretty bad human beings that do some very bad things.
But they have the right to organize. Does that give them a lot of power? Yes. Do they often misuse that power? Yes.
Do they exemplify ALL unions? NO
 
2021-03-11 3:42:07 AM  

The Reverend Sam Hill: [Fark user image image 473x599]


8th grade Social Studies teacher gave everyone an event, person or place to study each quarter then write a major report on. I got King George III for the Revolution. 15 kids, liked to reform & improve farming, & loved to talk about pigs before the porphyria kicked in. Actually, quite a reasonable man with bad advisors until he went nuts. He never cheated on his wife & didn't like feeling drunk.
 
2021-03-11 8:18:43 AM  

It's pronounced pacKAGE: Wanderlusting: Yeah, my first job as a stock boy at the local grocery was so much fun. Making under minimum wage for the three months I worked there because a significant amount of my paycheck each week went to pay for my union dues.

Shouldn't your anger go to the store that paid you so little?


That is the red flag to say this is an untrue story.

If you're in the grocery clerk union (United Food and Commercial Workers International Union (UFCW)) you don't get paid below minimum wage and dues are like $40/month so unless this troll was working 5 hours a week this is all BS.

I really was in the union as a kid working at the local grocery store and that union made sure that we got paid above minimum wage, that we got breaks and most importantly that where we worked was safe. It was a great union and even if you didn't pay dues you still got the benefits.

I miss being in a union. Not that I need the protection so much these days; I think it is a good idea to lever some of the power away from the bosses. you know, just in case
 
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