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(KTLA Los Angeles)   Jury selection on pause in trial of Derek Chauvin as prosecuters and defense attorneys attempt to find 18 U.S. citizens who are intelligent critical thinkers who are also free of any bias or opinions on police, BLM, shoplifters, or Methodists   (ktla.com) divider line
    More: PSA, Jury, death of George Floyd, conviction of Derek Chauvin, jury selection, potential jurors, Court, trial of a former Minneapolis police officer, Judge Peter Cahill  
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1080 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Mar 2021 at 8:37 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-03-08 8:39:28 PM  
What about rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits?
 
2021-03-08 8:39:51 PM  
This is going to be an interesting trial.
 
2021-03-08 8:40:19 PM  
Good luck with that, we're all counting on you.
 
2021-03-08 8:42:17 PM  
This guy is gonna walk, and the fallout is gonna be ugly.
 
2021-03-08 8:43:10 PM  
or the Dutch!
 
2021-03-08 8:43:26 PM  
Or prosecution is calling a timeout to add 3rd degree murder back to the charges, finally realizing they're overplaying their hand.

But ya know, reality vs fark headlines.
 
2021-03-08 8:44:01 PM  
He'll walk.

/let me be wrong
 
2021-03-08 8:45:54 PM  

That Guy What Stole the Bacon: He'll walk.

/let me be wrong


All the defense has to do is convince one person...

But it won't be this go around. Change of venue is coming first.
 
2021-03-08 8:46:27 PM  
Might as well buy 12 Realdolls now.
 
2021-03-08 8:46:44 PM  
Need to bring a jury from Peru and hold the trial in Quechua. And even then there's a chance of finding a Methodist!
 
2021-03-08 8:46:46 PM  
Found A Couple...
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-08 8:51:54 PM  
The attorneys aren't looking for people who are free of bias. That's not their job. They're looking for people maximally biased in favor of their client.

But nobody with sense wants any goddamn Methodists on the jury.
 
2021-03-08 8:52:50 PM  
I'm in LA and I got a jury duty summons last farking July, literally the second day they reopened the courts. As a high-risk person with a high-risk child, I'm hitting that Postpone button over and over until they won't let me anymore.

Normally I'm fine doing my civic duty but it's not work risking Covid for.
 
2021-03-08 8:53:36 PM  
Bet Keith Ellison regrets bringing that second degree murder charge at this point.
 
2021-03-08 8:54:18 PM  

The Dog Ate My Homework: This guy is gonna walk, and the fallout is gonna be ugly.


If they don't reinstate the 3rd degree murder charge, it's very likely.
 
2021-03-08 8:55:23 PM  
Warning. Gruesome details. You might not want to read it.

The jury will have to be smart. Some t hink that Chauvin killed Floyd by kneeling on his neck. The autopsies (both of them) showed that's not quit true. Floyd could not breath, but not because the knee on his neck was cutting off air. He couldn't breath because of the knee in his back and the combined efforts of officers to hold him still. He was driven into the ground in a way that forced his abdominal cavity up towards his lungs. He was effectively forced to exhale and then prevented from usefully inhaling fresh breath.

Chauvin was the lead officer. Another one, I forget his name, pointed out that they should roll him on his side because of exactly this sort of danger. Chauvin refused. Then when George stopped moving at all, they checked for a pulse, couldn't find one, and Chauvin has them remain in position for a few more minutes.

The defense will certainly attempt to make a point out of the fact that while most who watch the video think it was the knee on the neck, it wasn't, not in the direct way most would think. It was a far more insidious suffocation that involved multiple officers killing George Floyd more slowly.

It's worth keeping this all in mind. That's because it's a simple talking point that Chauvin didn't bruise his neck, didn't suffocate him by crushing his larynx or blocking his airway passage. In most ways, what he did was worse. He led a team that held a man in a manner that prevented him from breathing. He was trained not to use that restraint. He was reminded to not use that dangerous manner of restraint. He continued it with George  telling him he couldn't breath. He continued it until George lost consciousness, stopped moving, and had no pulse. And then he held it for another two minutes to be sure. The jury will need to get past the trite bit about a knee on a neck and see a more calculated execution.
 
2021-03-08 8:55:35 PM  
I think we should make a special case and have the jury pool be from a remote Bhutanese village.
 
2021-03-08 8:57:38 PM  

FrancoFile: What about rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits?


The headline said "police" already.
 
2021-03-08 9:00:27 PM  
The problem with our jury systrm is that if you can see the video of a cop with his knee in the neck of a suspect, steangling hin to death, and not instantly know it is farked up and wrong, you are too stupid to be deciding a jury outcome.

We need a whole new judicial system that respects rights, but does not depend on whatever regular people you can find to sit on a jury.  Regular people are too dumb.
 
2021-03-08 9:03:31 PM  
Main tab? Oh hell, this comment thread is gonna be a shiatshow.
 
2021-03-08 9:04:09 PM  
He may die of old age waiting.
 
2021-03-08 9:08:23 PM  

El_Dan: Bet Keith Ellison regrets bringing that second degree murder charge at this point.


Ellison went M2 to placate the mob and get street cred.

He's trying to pull it back to go M3 to actually try to win the case, ostensibly.

If he stays with M2, the only thing I can come up with is he wants more riots from the "disempowered", so he can dismiss all of the charges again like last year.
 
2021-03-08 9:09:29 PM  

ISmartAllMyOwnPosts: Or prosecution is calling a timeout to add 3rd degree murder back to the charges, finally realizing they're overplaying their hand.


They're not overplaying their hand, and they're trying to get 3rd degree murder back in because the judge tossed it based on a fundamental misreading of the statute. Specifically, Minnesota's third degree murder statute says:
Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
And the judge said "since Chauvin's actions were only dangerous to another person - Floyd - not multiple otherssuch as bystanders, it's not 3rd degree murder."
But that reading is stupid, and also not consistent with the recent conviction of Officer Noor under the same statute - he was the cop who killed the white woman who was reporting a crime because she knocked on the window of the patrol car and he shat himself.  For that reading of the statute to be true, it would have had to be the intent of the legislature that they wanted 3rd degree murder to cover acts that were dangerous to lots of people, but weren't intended to cause a person's death; and 2nd degree unintentional murder to cover acts that were dangerous to only a single person, but weren't intended to cause their death. In other words, 3rd degree murder would require more dangerous acts than 2nd degree murder. That makes no sense. So, the right way to read the statute is that "others" includes anyone other than the perpetrator*, and so would include Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck for nine minutes.

*this also makes sense, because if you had someone committing an act that was apparently dangerous only to themselves, and someone else somehow accidentally gets killed, you would want to charge them with a lesser degree of culpability than 3rd degree murder. Like, the guy who throws cinder blocks off the interstate into traffic for funsies should get charged with a worse crime than the guy who jumps off a bridge and happens to land on a passing boat and smooshes someone but somehow survives.
 
2021-03-08 9:10:39 PM  

Another Government Employee: That Guy What Stole the Bacon: He'll walk.

/let me be wrong

All the defense has to do is convince one person...

But it won't be this go around. Change of venue is coming first.


I remember a while back when LA and OR had their laws regarding a supermajority verdict (10-2) repealed and warned Farkers that there will be an instance where this could result in a less than favorable outcome. Granted MN doesn't have a supermajority jury law, but it's very easy to find one right winger to give a not guilty verdict and destroy a case.
 
2021-03-08 9:11:47 PM  

Dragonblink: I'm in LA and I got a jury duty summons last farking July, literally the second day they reopened the courts.


I got a summons the week after I turned 18... I showed up, sat in the pool room, and at noon, they let everyone go. It's been more than two decades, and I've never been called since. And now, as a patent lawyer and engineer, married to a criminal appellate lawyer, there's no way I'll ever get on a jury. :(
 
2021-03-08 9:12:43 PM  
When half the world witnessed the murder on TV, do we really need to comb the country for 12 people uninformed enough to be "impartial"?
 
2021-03-08 9:13:18 PM  

Another Government Employee: That Guy What Stole the Bacon: He'll walk.

/let me be wrong

All the defense has to do is convince one person...

But it won't be this go around. Change of venue is coming first.


Preferably to a sundown town.
 
2021-03-08 9:13:43 PM  

winedrinkingman: The problem with our jury systrm... steangling hin to death...


Name checks out
 
2021-03-08 9:14:45 PM  

FrancoFile: What about rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-08 9:15:53 PM  

drwiki: When half the world witnessed the murder on TV, do we really need to comb the country for 12 people uninformed enough to be "impartial"?


The defense sure does.
 
2021-03-08 9:16:04 PM  

Theaetetus: Dragonblink: I'm in LA and I got a jury duty summons last farking July, literally the second day they reopened the courts.

I got a summons the week after I turned 18... I showed up, sat in the pool room, and at noon, they let everyone go. It's been more than two decades, and I've never been called since. And now, as a patent lawyer and engineer, married to a criminal appellate lawyer, there's no way I'll ever get on a jury. :(


I have a friend who is a lawyer who was a juror in a personal injury case.  Said friend spent much of her career defending personal injury cases.  She was shocked at how little money other jurors wanted to award to a person who had been very severely injured.
 
2021-03-08 9:16:47 PM  

El_Dan: Bet Keith Ellison regrets bringing that second degree murder charge at this point.


I could be wrong but he needed to charge the other three.  If it's true that's why all 4 may walk
 
2021-03-08 9:16:54 PM  

Theaetetus: ISmartAllMyOwnPosts: Or prosecution is calling a timeout to add 3rd degree murder back to the charges, finally realizing they're overplaying their hand.

They're not overplaying their hand, and they're trying to get 3rd degree murder back in because the judge tossed it based on a fundamental misreading of the statute. Specifically, Minnesota's third degree murder statute says:
Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
And the judge said "since Chauvin's actions were only dangerous to another person - Floyd - not multiple otherssuch as bystanders, it's not 3rd degree murder."
But that reading is stupid, and also not consistent with the recent conviction of Officer Noor under the same statute - he was the cop who killed the white woman who was reporting a crime because she knocked on the window of the patrol car and he shat himself.  For that reading of the statute to be true, it would have had to be the intent of the legislature that they wanted 3rd degree murder to cover acts that were dangerous to lots of people, but weren't intended to cause a person's death; and 2nd degree unintentional murder to cover acts that were dangerous to only a single person, but weren't intended to cause their death. In other words, 3rd degree murder would require more dangerous acts than 2nd degree murder. That makes no sense. So, the right way to read the statute is that "others" includes anyone other than the perpetrator*, and so would include Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck for nine minutes.

*this also makes sense, because if you had someone committing an act that was apparently dangerous only to themselves, and someone else somehow accidentally gets killed, you would want to charge them with a lesser degree of culpability than 3rd degree murder. Like, the guy who throws cinder blocks off the interstate into traffic for funsies should get charged with a worse crime than the guy who jumps off a bridge and happens to land on a passing boat and smooshes someone but somehow survives.


Ellison specifically pursued the M2 after Hennepin county would only go M3.

If there was a "misreading", it was on his part.
 
2021-03-08 9:22:07 PM  
The defense is hoping for at least one chauvinist.

Theaetetus: And the judge said "since Chauvin's actions were only dangerous to another person - Floyd - not multiple otherssuch as bystanders, it's not 3rd degree murder."
But that reading is stupid,


Astoundingly stupid. Sounds like the judge is trying to get his ears boxed.
 
2021-03-08 9:26:07 PM  
I'm sure everyone here supports the right to trial under the laws of the nation... even if he's already been broken on the wheel by the court of public opinion.

"Some of the questions get specific, such as how often a potential juror has watched the bystander video of Floyd's arrest, or whether they carried a sign at a protest and what that sign said. "
 
2021-03-08 9:27:19 PM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: The defense is hoping for at least one chauvinist.

Theaetetus: And the judge said "since Chauvin's actions were only dangerous to another person - Floyd - not multiple otherssuch as bystanders, it's not 3rd degree murder."
But that reading is stupid,

Astoundingly stupid. Sounds like the judge is trying to get his ears boxed.


I mean, the alternative is a hilarious loophole in which Minnesotaean murderers can claim "sure, I drove at high speed down this alleyway and ran over the kid playing hopscotch, but there was only one kid there, so it's not a crime!"
 
2021-03-08 9:30:20 PM  

ISmartAllMyOwnPosts: Theaetetus: ISmartAllMyOwnPosts: Or prosecution is calling a timeout to add 3rd degree murder back to the charges, finally realizing they're overplaying their hand.

They're not overplaying their hand, and they're trying to get 3rd degree murder back in because the judge tossed it based on a fundamental misreading of the statute. Specifically, Minnesota's third degree murder statute says:
Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
And the judge said "since Chauvin's actions were only dangerous to another person - Floyd - not multiple otherssuch as bystanders, it's not 3rd degree murder."
But that reading is stupid, and also not consistent with the recent conviction of Officer Noor under the same statute - he was the cop who killed the white woman who was reporting a crime because she knocked on the window of the patrol car and he shat himself.  For that reading of the statute to be true, it would have had to be the intent of the legislature that they wanted 3rd degree murder to cover acts that were dangerous to lots of people, but weren't intended to cause a person's death; and 2nd degree unintentional murder to cover acts that were dangerous to only a single person, but weren't intended to cause their death. In other words, 3rd degree murder would require more dangerous acts than 2nd degree murder. That makes no sense. So, the right way to read the statute is that "others" includes anyone other than the perpetrator*, and so would include Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck for nine minutes.

*this also makes sense, because if you had someone committing an act that was apparently dangerous only to themselves, and someone else somehow accidentally gets killed, you would want to charge them with a lesser degree of culpability than 3rd degree murder. Like, the guy who throws cinder blocks off the interstate into traffic for funsies should get charged with a worse crime than the guy who jumps off a bridge and happens to land on a passing boat and smooshes someone but somehow survives.

Ellison specifically pursued the M2 after Hennepin county would only go M3.

If there was a "misreading", it was on his part.


Ellison assumed murder 3 wouldn't survive an appeal, based on analysis of the Noor case. (And suspected this was the county attorney's attempt at tanking the case).When the appeals court upheld the Noor conviction they decided to try to tack it back on.
 
2021-03-08 9:31:28 PM  
A few years ago I was summoned to federal court to potentially be on a jury for a gang crimes case they expected would take 3 months.  I told the judge in tears that would ruin my career and he agreed and let me off.  It made me really wonder what pool of people you really get that can afford to miss 3 months of work for like $17/day.
 
2021-03-08 9:32:16 PM  

Theaetetus: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: The defense is hoping for at least one chauvinist.

Theaetetus: And the judge said "since Chauvin's actions were only dangerous to another person - Floyd - not multiple otherssuch as bystanders, it's not 3rd degree murder."
But that reading is stupid,

Astoundingly stupid. Sounds like the judge is trying to get his ears boxed.

I mean, the alternative is a hilarious loophole in which Minnesotaean murderers can claim "sure, I drove at high speed down this alleyway and ran over the kid playing hopscotch, but there was only one kid there, so it's not a crime!"


Murder 3 is weird in Minnesota.  It's been historically used to prosecute drive by shootings, and drug dealers whose customers overdose.
 
2021-03-08 9:32:42 PM  

Another Government Employee: That Guy What Stole the Bacon: He'll walk.

/let me be wrong

All the defense has to do is convince one person...

But it won't be this go around. Change of venue is coming first.


Harlem New York?
Or Outer Bumfark Montana?
 
2021-03-08 9:32:55 PM  
Juries are always biased and people pretend like those biases do not account for something. This is the whole reason for the voire dire process as the prosecution and defense try to pick the jurors they feel are most biased in their favor, but protest that they are neutral lol.
 
2021-03-08 9:35:35 PM  

Theaetetus: Dragonblink: I'm in LA and I got a jury duty summons last farking July, literally the second day they reopened the courts.

I got a summons the week after I turned 18... I showed up, sat in the pool room, and at noon, they let everyone go. It's been more than two decades, and I've never been called since. And now, as a patent lawyer and engineer, married to a criminal appellate lawyer, there's no way I'll ever get on a jury. :(


I spent my 21st birthday sitting in the jury box for a personal injury case. Stopped on the way home to buy booze, didn't even get carded.
 
2021-03-08 9:36:57 PM  

the money is in the banana stand: Juries are always biased and people pretend like those biases do not account for something. This is the whole reason for the voire dire process as the prosecution and defense try to pick the jurors they feel are most biased in their favor, but protest that they are neutral lol.


frinkiac.comView Full Size
 
2021-03-08 9:42:58 PM  

The Dog Ate My Homework: This guy is gonna walk, and the fallout is gonna be ugly.


I can see that happening.
But. I think only because, I predict the prosecution will focus on the death.
I think the prostitution should focus on using torture to force Floyd to acquiesce  and enter the vehicle.

Because, that wasn't the easy best manner. It was the ugliest and done for no other reason. It was a awful choice. And should not be legal.
Come on do you really think it's illegal to torture someone to make them get inside of vehicle????????????
come on America speak up do you think it's okay to torture someone in order to get them inside of vehicle?????
 
2021-03-08 9:48:07 PM  

wademh: Warning. Gruesome details. You might not want to read it.

The jury will have to be smart. Some t hink that Chauvin killed Floyd by kneeling on his neck. The autopsies (both of them) showed that's not quit true. Floyd could not breath, but not because the knee on his neck was cutting off air. He couldn't breath because of the knee in his back and the combined efforts of officers to hold him still. He was driven into the ground in a way that forced his abdominal cavity up towards his lungs. He was effectively forced to exhale and then prevented from usefully inhaling fresh breath.

Chauvin was the lead officer. Another one, I forget his name, pointed out that they should roll him on his side because of exactly this sort of danger. Chauvin refused. Then when George stopped moving at all, they checked for a pulse, couldn't find one, and Chauvin has them remain in position for a few more minutes.

The defense will certainly attempt to make a point out of the fact that while most who watch the video think it was the knee on the neck, it wasn't, not in the direct way most would think. It was a far more insidious suffocation that involved multiple officers killing George Floyd more slowly.

It's worth keeping this all in mind. That's because it's a simple talking point that Chauvin didn't bruise his neck, didn't suffocate him by crushing his larynx or blocking his airway passage. In most ways, what he did was worse. He led a team that held a man in a manner that prevented him from breathing. He was trained not to use that restraint. He was reminded to not use that dangerous manner of restraint. He continued it with George  telling him he couldn't breath. He continued it until George lost consciousness, stopped moving, and had no pulse. And then he held it for another two minutes to be sure. The jury will need to get past the trite bit about a knee on a neck and see a more calculated execution.


Too bad thinking types are weeded out in the jury selection process.
 
2021-03-08 9:50:38 PM  

FrancoFile: What about rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-08 9:51:28 PM  

Dknsvsbl: Another Government Employee: That Guy What Stole the Bacon: He'll walk.

/let me be wrong

All the defense has to do is convince one person...

But it won't be this go around. Change of venue is coming first.

Harlem New York?
Or Outer Bumfark Montana?


I could see Rochester or Duluth. They are large enough to get a pool, but out of the main rush of press.
 
2021-03-08 9:53:25 PM  
Jury of his peers?
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-08 9:54:02 PM  

ISmartAllMyOwnPosts: Or prosecution is calling a timeout to add 3rd degree murder back to the charges, finally realizing they're overplaying their hand.

But ya know, reality vs fark headlines.


So you support using torture on a handcuffed suspect, in order to get them into a specific vehicle. Because why wait the suspect out or why call for a wagon? Okay.
Well. You should not support that. Because that is an abuse of power.
 
2021-03-08 9:56:30 PM  

Dragonblink: I'm in LA and I got a jury duty summons last farking July, literally the second day they reopened the courts. As a high-risk person with a high-risk child, I'm hitting that Postpone button over and over until they won't let me anymore.

Normally I'm fine doing my civic duty but it's not work risking Covid for.


Okay? So why hold count? Let them out with a promise to come back
 
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