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(Fortune)   Hmmmm, with how specific one question is that was added to taxes this year, how hard will the IRS go after people who try to avoid paying taxes on their fake currency   (fortune.com) divider line
    More: Amusing, trademark of Fortune Media IP Limited, Exchange-traded fund, Mutual fund, FORTUNE, Dow Jones Industrial Average, Trademark, Hedge fund, Stock market index  
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1286 clicks; posted to Business » on 08 Mar 2021 at 8:35 AM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



50 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-03-08 8:47:49 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


How about no.
 
2021-03-08 8:53:05 AM  
I am disappoint
 
2021-03-08 9:04:33 AM  
I have the NoScript extension installed but requiring permission to activate. When I get to a site that tells my browser to do things I don't want it to do, I enable that extension and presto-chango the website becomes much more well behaved. This works well on many sites but also breaks desirable function on others, so I don't leave it on all the time.

You should try it, especially if you want to take a casual look at WaPo or Fortune.
 
2021-03-08 9:05:33 AM  
Just them asking this question, and also the rules they issued through the OCC, they have legitimized bitcoin.

They cant stop it, so their only hope is to stifle it enough to get out their own FedCoin.

/They lost
 
2021-03-08 9:09:05 AM  

AsparagusFTW: Just them asking this question, and also the rules they issued through the OCC, they have legitimized bitcoin.

They cant stop it, so their only hope is to stifle it enough to get out their own FedCoin.

/They lost


What one "FedCoin" might look like:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-08 9:20:24 AM  

TabASlotB: AsparagusFTW: Just them asking this question, and also the rules they issued through the OCC, they have legitimized bitcoin.

They cant stop it, so their only hope is to stifle it enough to get out their own FedCoin.

/They lost

What one "FedCoin" might look like:
[Fark user image image 800x346]


The funny thing is, is that the ECB has said they are 5 years away from their digitalEuro. I assume a similar timeframe for the Fed. That means theyll be only 17 years behind the technology when it hits the market. I cant imagine where Crypto will be then given how fast the market is moving. They cant stop it given its decentralized nature, so they have to throw mud and hope to slow it down. It is why Yellen and Lagarde keep bringing up "OMG THE CRIME!" whenever they can. That was valid 7 years ago but the industry has mainly moved on.
 
2021-03-08 9:37:50 AM  

AsparagusFTW: TabASlotB: AsparagusFTW: Just them asking this question, and also the rules they issued through the OCC, they have legitimized bitcoin.

They cant stop it, so their only hope is to stifle it enough to get out their own FedCoin.

/They lost

What one "FedCoin" might look like:
[Fark user image image 800x346]

The funny thing is, is that the ECB has said they are 5 years away from their digitalEuro. I assume a similar timeframe for the Fed. That means theyll be only 17 years behind the technology when it hits the market. I cant imagine where Crypto will be then given how fast the market is moving. They cant stop it given its decentralized nature, so they have to throw mud and hope to slow it down. It is why Yellen and Lagarde keep bringing up "OMG THE CRIME!" whenever they can. That was valid 7 years ago but the industry has mainly moved on.


Yeah, I doubt that.

Also if money is worthless so are buttcoins. Pay me in silver.
 
2021-03-08 9:44:08 AM  

AsparagusFTW: TabASlotB: AsparagusFTW: Just them asking this question, and also the rules they issued through the OCC, they have legitimized bitcoin.

They cant stop it, so their only hope is to stifle it enough to get out their own FedCoin.

/They lost

What one "FedCoin" might look like:
[Fark user image image 800x346]

The funny thing is, is that the ECB has said they are 5 years away from their digitalEuro. I assume a similar timeframe for the Fed. That means theyll be only 17 years behind the technology when it hits the market. I cant imagine where Crypto will be then given how fast the market is moving. They cant stop it given its decentralized nature, so they have to throw mud and hope to slow it down. It is why Yellen and Lagarde keep bringing up "OMG THE CRIME!" whenever they can. That was valid 7 years ago but the industry has mainly moved on.


I don't think they really see crypto as any real threat to traditional currencies because Bitcoin is massively deflationary, which creates the "$100 million dollar pizza problem" where you don't want to spend Bitcoin once you have acquired it.
 
2021-03-08 9:47:58 AM  
shiat!  I better stash all that Confederate currency I have!
 
2021-03-08 9:53:39 AM  
Pay me in palladium you don't need to burn coal to do it either!
 
2021-03-08 9:56:05 AM  

Mad_Radhu: AsparagusFTW: TabASlotB: AsparagusFTW: Just them asking this question, and also the rules they issued through the OCC, they have legitimized bitcoin.

They cant stop it, so their only hope is to stifle it enough to get out their own FedCoin.

/They lost

What one "FedCoin" might look like:
[Fark user image image 800x346]

The funny thing is, is that the ECB has said they are 5 years away from their digitalEuro. I assume a similar timeframe for the Fed. That means theyll be only 17 years behind the technology when it hits the market. I cant imagine where Crypto will be then given how fast the market is moving. They cant stop it given its decentralized nature, so they have to throw mud and hope to slow it down. It is why Yellen and Lagarde keep bringing up "OMG THE CRIME!" whenever they can. That was valid 7 years ago but the industry has mainly moved on.

I don't think they really see crypto as any real threat to traditional currencies because Bitcoin is massively deflationary, which creates the "$100 million dollar pizza problem" where you don't want to spend Bitcoin once you have acquired it.


I agree that it is deflationary.

Our entire system is built on over consumption and waste. That is not sustainable either. Ive noticed it with my own spending. My personal spending has gone down to as close to 0 as I can. You really start to realize how little you need to be happy when you go down this path.
 
2021-03-08 9:57:20 AM  

DrunkenIrishOD: Pay me in palladium you don't need to burn coal to do it either!


Those premiums on metals are.....back breaking right now.
 
2021-03-08 10:05:59 AM  

AsparagusFTW: Just them asking this question, and also the rules they issued through the OCC, they have legitimized bitcoin.

They cant stop it, so their only hope is to stifle it enough to get out their own FedCoin.

/They lost


i.imgur.comView Full Size

lol no.
 
2021-03-08 10:55:34 AM  
You'll make it up on losses next year.
 
2021-03-08 11:10:25 AM  

AsparagusFTW: TabASlotB: AsparagusFTW: Just them asking this question, and also the rules they issued through the OCC, they have legitimized bitcoin.

They cant stop it, so their only hope is to stifle it enough to get out their own FedCoin.

/They lost

What one "FedCoin" might look like:
[Fark user image image 800x346]

The funny thing is, is that the ECB has said they are 5 years away from their digitalEuro. I assume a similar timeframe for the Fed. That means theyll be only 17 years behind the technology when it hits the market. I cant imagine where Crypto will be then given how fast the market is moving. They cant stop it given its decentralized nature, so they have to throw mud and hope to slow it down. It is why Yellen and Lagarde keep bringing up "OMG THE CRIME!" whenever they can. That was valid 7 years ago but the industry has mainly moved on.


Honest question:  Bitcoin has been "mainstream" for long enough that one could argue that it is a fair experiment in what happens when you have a non-fiat currency in the modern global economy.  One of the things that happens is volatility.  This was the price fluctuation in BTC over the past month:

Fark user imageView Full Size


When the dollar, or the pound, or the euro drops by, say, more than a few percent in a quarter - that's significant financial news.  Here you've got bitcoin dropping by ~25% in, like, two days.  Why would a business ever adopt bitcoin as an actual currency when you could literally go bankrupt overnight because of it?  Note here that I mean actually doing business in BTC at a large volume, not just accepting a small amount BTC for a few transactions on the side while it looks like a worthwhile investment.
 
2021-03-08 11:19:25 AM  
No one has been able to square the circle about how these are "legitimate currency" while also explaining how we can be serious about mitigating climate change when crypto has the carbon footprint of a small town.
 
2021-03-08 11:20:03 AM  

dittybopper: shiat!  I better stash all that Confederate currency I have!



Make it into an NFT and you're golden.
 
2021-03-08 11:21:08 AM  

AsparagusFTW: Just them asking this question, and also the rules they issued through the OCC, they have legitimized bitcoin.

They cant stop it, so their only hope is to stifle it enough to get out their own FedCoin.

/They lost


When enough people around the world use Bitcoin then anyone out to stop it is shiat Outta Luck.
 
2021-03-08 11:21:52 AM  

TabASlotB: AsparagusFTW: Just them asking this question, and also the rules they issued through the OCC, they have legitimized bitcoin.

They cant stop it, so their only hope is to stifle it enough to get out their own FedCoin.

/They lost

What one "FedCoin" might look like:
[Fark user image image 800x346]


Depreciating every year in buying power since 1794
 
2021-03-08 11:23:22 AM  

Intrepid00: AsparagusFTW: TabASlotB: AsparagusFTW: Just them asking this question, and also the rules they issued through the OCC, they have legitimized bitcoin.

They cant stop it, so their only hope is to stifle it enough to get out their own FedCoin.

/They lost

What one "FedCoin" might look like:
[Fark user image image 800x346]

The funny thing is, is that the ECB has said they are 5 years away from their digitalEuro. I assume a similar timeframe for the Fed. That means theyll be only 17 years behind the technology when it hits the market. I cant imagine where Crypto will be then given how fast the market is moving. They cant stop it given its decentralized nature, so they have to throw mud and hope to slow it down. It is why Yellen and Lagarde keep bringing up "OMG THE CRIME!" whenever they can. That was valid 7 years ago but the industry has mainly moved on.

Yeah, I doubt that.

Also if money is worthless so are buttcoins. Pay me in silver.


The only currency worthless is the currency no one is using.

The Power of Bitcoin will be in its Billions of users.
 
2021-03-08 11:23:43 AM  

Gestalt: No one has been able to square the circle about how these are "legitimate currency" while also explaining how we can be serious about mitigating climate change when crypto has the carbon footprint of a small town.


Fiat is way more wasteful but no one bats an eyelash. A system of never ending growth and cheap money is a resource hog. Im not giving BTC a pass here, but it is the lesser of 2 evils in this space.
 
2021-03-08 11:24:22 AM  

Mad_Radhu: AsparagusFTW: TabASlotB: AsparagusFTW: Just them asking this question, and also the rules they issued through the OCC, they have legitimized bitcoin.

They cant stop it, so their only hope is to stifle it enough to get out their own FedCoin.

/They lost

What one "FedCoin" might look like:
[Fark user image image 800x346]

The funny thing is, is that the ECB has said they are 5 years away from their digitalEuro. I assume a similar timeframe for the Fed. That means theyll be only 17 years behind the technology when it hits the market. I cant imagine where Crypto will be then given how fast the market is moving. They cant stop it given its decentralized nature, so they have to throw mud and hope to slow it down. It is why Yellen and Lagarde keep bringing up "OMG THE CRIME!" whenever they can. That was valid 7 years ago but the industry has mainly moved on.

I don't think they really see crypto as any real threat to traditional currencies because Bitcoin is massively deflationary, which creates the "$100 million dollar pizza problem" where you don't want to spend Bitcoin once you have acquired it.


Thats why you spend fractions of Bitcoin.
 
2021-03-08 11:30:13 AM  

AsparagusFTW: Fiat is way more wasteful but no one bats an eyelash. A system of never ending growth and cheap money is a resource hog. Im not giving BTC a pass here, but it is the lesser of 2 evils in this space.


You might as well be making the same argument for Beanie Babies or sports cards. Atleast with the Beanie Babies, you aren't creating a horrendous power draw for cost of maintaining blockchain, nor
 
2021-03-08 11:31:15 AM  
Nor driving up everyone's cost of GPU's for sake of running accelerationist make-work.
 
2021-03-08 11:54:45 AM  

AsparagusFTW: Gestalt: No one has been able to square the circle about how these are "legitimate currency" while also explaining how we can be serious about mitigating climate change when crypto has the carbon footprint of a small town.

Fiat is way more wasteful but no one bats an eyelash. A system of never ending growth and cheap money is a resource hog. Im not giving BTC a pass here, but it is the lesser of 2 evils in this space.


Yeah, you seem terribly unbiased on the subject
 
2021-03-08 12:06:08 PM  

AsparagusFTW: Just them asking this question, and also the rules they issued through the OCC, they have legitimized bitcoin.

They cant stop it, so their only hope is to stifle it enough to get out their own FedCoin.

/They lost


This is not a good logic flow.
The fed does not legitimize cryptocurrencies as a national or internally recognized currency by making sure to clarify, profits are taxable income, no matter what you made your profits on.

Like did you know that selling illegal fire arms or drugs is not the only crime there. If you do not report the perosnally earned income from the sale, that is it's own separate crime.
And this in no way at all makes the guns or drugs suddenly legit and legal to sell.

Income is taxable, no matter how you earn it.
Income is taxable even if you earned that income in a new way no one has ever heard of beofre until you earned your first monye on it.
And all that income will remain taxable income, even if the goods being sold for it suddenly get outlawed.


The feds do not make legit the possession and sale of cocaine, just because they do tax any income you gain for the sale of it.
So while crypto, like art, can be sold to anyone who is willing to pay for it, that only makes it a product or a speculation commodity. That does not actually make it a recognized currency with the feds.
 
2021-03-08 12:12:08 PM  
When someone starts talking about cryptocurrencies being better than actual currencies then you can safely ignore anything they have to say about money and finances.
 
2021-03-08 12:32:12 PM  

PvtStash: AsparagusFTW: Just them asking this question, and also the rules they issued through the OCC, they have legitimized bitcoin.

They cant stop it, so their only hope is to stifle it enough to get out their own FedCoin.

/They lost

This is not a good logic flow.
The fed does not legitimize cryptocurrencies as a national or internally recognized currency by making sure to clarify, profits are taxable income, no matter what you made your profits on.

Like did you know that selling illegal fire arms or drugs is not the only crime there. If you do not report the perosnally earned income from the sale, that is it's own separate crime.
And this in no way at all makes the guns or drugs suddenly legit and legal to sell.

Income is taxable, no matter how you earn it.
Income is taxable even if you earned that income in a new way no one has ever heard of beofre until you earned your first monye on it.
And all that income will remain taxable income, even if the goods being sold for it suddenly get outlawed.


The feds do not make legit the possession and sale of cocaine, just because they do tax any income you gain for the sale of it.
So while crypto, like art, can be sold to anyone who is willing to pay for it, that only makes it a product or a speculation commodity. That does not actually make it a recognized currency with the feds.


You could also look at it that they are just now being proactive about taxation. Meaning, they are not going to try to ban it at this point, but that adds strength to the network since an out right ban will not happen.
 
2021-03-08 12:40:00 PM  

NuclearPenguins: When someone starts talking about cryptocurrencies being better than actual currencies then you can safely ignore anything they have to say about money and finances.


Is it because it takes them 2-5 days to make their point?
 
2021-03-08 12:54:14 PM  

NuclearPenguins: When someone starts talking about cryptocurrencies being better than actual currencies then you can safely ignore anything they have to say about money and finances.


No one knows how this will all play out. I have my bets you have yours. It could play out a million different ways and have outcomes I cant fathom. That is what makes this so interesting to me.

But I will say given the current rates of adoption, use cases, and new daily entrants into the market, it bodes well for the BTC thesis.

If you think it goes to 0, try shorting it.

/Not investment advice
 
2021-03-08 12:59:10 PM  

Forty-Three: AsparagusFTW: TabASlotB: AsparagusFTW: Just them asking this question, and also the rules they issued through the OCC, they have legitimized bitcoin.

They cant stop it, so their only hope is to stifle it enough to get out their own FedCoin.

/They lost

What one "FedCoin" might look like:
[Fark user image image 800x346]

The funny thing is, is that the ECB has said they are 5 years away from their digitalEuro. I assume a similar timeframe for the Fed. That means theyll be only 17 years behind the technology when it hits the market. I cant imagine where Crypto will be then given how fast the market is moving. They cant stop it given its decentralized nature, so they have to throw mud and hope to slow it down. It is why Yellen and Lagarde keep bringing up "OMG THE CRIME!" whenever they can. That was valid 7 years ago but the industry has mainly moved on.

Honest question:  Bitcoin has been "mainstream" for long enough that one could argue that it is a fair experiment in what happens when you have a non-fiat currency in the modern global economy.  One of the things that happens is volatility.  This was the price fluctuation in BTC over the past month:

[Fark user image image 639x343]

When the dollar, or the pound, or the euro drops by, say, more than a few percent in a quarter - that's significant financial news.  Here you've got bitcoin dropping by ~25% in, like, two days.  Why would a business ever adopt bitcoin as an actual currency when you could literally go bankrupt overnight because of it?  Note here that I mean actually doing business in BTC at a large volume, not just accepting a small amount BTC for a few transactions on the side while it looks like a worthwhile investment.


It is still extremely early in the adoption curve. With time this S curve will flatten out. That said, if you wait for the adoption to fully play out before jumping in, you could miss a lot of upside. But with each new entrant, it helps the network. The bigger names now are MSTR, TSLA, PYPL, SQ and some small public miners.

Q1 and Q2 announcements in ~April/July might be interesting. But given the time frame it takes boards to do anything like this, Q3 is when I am guessing more heavy weights announce their entrance.

/Who knows
 
2021-03-08 1:27:34 PM  
How the hell does anyone expect to run an economy with a currency that supports 7 transactions a second? That's only what, 10 orders of magnitude less than required?
 
2021-03-08 1:32:53 PM  

trialpha: How the hell does anyone expect to run an economy with a currency that supports 7 transactions a second? That's only what, 10 orders of magnitude less than required?


Lightning Network

Sits on top of the BTC layer. You and I could do 127 transactions, and when we agree to stop transacting with each other, only the net is recorded, not the 127 transactions.
 
2021-03-08 1:37:31 PM  

AsparagusFTW: trialpha: How the hell does anyone expect to run an economy with a currency that supports 7 transactions a second? That's only what, 10 orders of magnitude less than required?

Lightning Network

Sits on top of the BTC layer. You and I could do 127 transactions, and when we agree to stop transacting with each other, only the net is recorded, not the 127 transactions.


If BTC effectively requires an entire layer around it to make it useful, why not just use a better designed currency that doesn't have that problem?
 
2021-03-08 1:47:34 PM  

trialpha: AsparagusFTW: trialpha: How the hell does anyone expect to run an economy with a currency that supports 7 transactions a second? That's only what, 10 orders of magnitude less than required?

Lightning Network

Sits on top of the BTC layer. You and I could do 127 transactions, and when we agree to stop transacting with each other, only the net is recorded, not the 127 transactions.

If BTC effectively requires an entire layer around it to make it useful, why not just use a better designed currency that doesn't have that problem?


It's tech. The youtube we use now is not the same youtube from a decade ago.  Trope answer, but those issues are being solved. I cant imagine where itll be in another 12 years.
 
2021-03-08 1:59:14 PM  

AsparagusFTW: It is still extremely early in the adoption curve. With time this S curve will flatten out. That said, if you wait for the adoption to fully play out before jumping in, you could miss a lot of upside. But with each new entrant, it helps the network. The bigger names now are MSTR, TSLA, PYPL, SQ and some small public miners.

Q1 and Q2 announcements in ~April/July might be interesting. But given the time frame it takes boards to do anything like this, Q3 is when I am guessing more heavy weights announce their entrance.

/Who knows


Aa pure investment, sure, a person/business could easily be missing out by not obtaining a certain amount of BTC and sitting on it to see what happens.  That's all BTC is right now - a high-risk investment with potentially high-return.  As such, you have to be willing to either lose it all or sit on it until it's worth selling for a large profit.  That's totally different from using it as a means of exchange on a day-to-day basis for a large part of your business.

Maybe bitcoin will become less volatile over time, maybe it won't.  Even if it does appear to become stable for what, in the digital, age is a "long" time (say, I dunno, 5 years) most people who need to exchange currency on a daily basis will still have a living memory of it being volatile and will inherently trust it less than a dollar or a pound.  I could be wrong, but I have a hard time seeing how that uncertainty and distrust goes away in less than a human generation.
 
2021-03-08 1:59:51 PM  

AsparagusFTW: It's tech. The youtube we use now is not the same youtube from a decade ago. Trope answer, but those issues are being solved. I cant imagine where itll be in another 12 years.


"We'll solve it as we go along!" is not something you want for the currency supporting your entire economy.
 
2021-03-08 2:02:19 PM  

trialpha: AsparagusFTW: It's tech. The youtube we use now is not the same youtube from a decade ago. Trope answer, but those issues are being solved. I cant imagine where itll be in another 12 years.

"We'll solve it as we go along!" is not something you want for the currency supporting your entire economy.


Never ending printing is something you dont either, but here we are.
 
2021-03-08 2:05:10 PM  

Forty-Three: AsparagusFTW: It is still extremely early in the adoption curve. With time this S curve will flatten out. That said, if you wait for the adoption to fully play out before jumping in, you could miss a lot of upside. But with each new entrant, it helps the network. The bigger names now are MSTR, TSLA, PYPL, SQ and some small public miners.

Q1 and Q2 announcements in ~April/July might be interesting. But given the time frame it takes boards to do anything like this, Q3 is when I am guessing more heavy weights announce their entrance.

/Who knows

Aa pure investment, sure, a person/business could easily be missing out by not obtaining a certain amount of BTC and sitting on it to see what happens.  That's all BTC is right now - a high-risk investment with potentially high-return.  As such, you have to be willing to either lose it all or sit on it until it's worth selling for a large profit.  That's totally different from using it as a means of exchange on a day-to-day basis for a large part of your business.

Maybe bitcoin will become less volatile over time, maybe it won't.  Even if it does appear to become stable for what, in the digital, age is a "long" time (say, I dunno, 5 years) most people who need to exchange currency on a daily basis will still have a living memory of it being volatile and will inherently trust it less than a dollar or a pound.  I could be wrong, but I have a hard time seeing how that uncertainty and distrust goes away in less than a human generation.


This is what I don't get. Bitcoin heads, assuming they have a decent amount already purchased, have basically won. Just take your winnings, crow a little bit about how right you were, and go home. But they have this odd obsession with it being the next big currency even though there are literally no indications it's going to happen in our lifetime. It's like if you won $100,000 on a slot machine and then insisted that slot machines would soon replace the dollar as the world's currency
 
2021-03-08 2:09:24 PM  

TDWCom29: Forty-Three: AsparagusFTW: It is still extremely early in the adoption curve. With time this S curve will flatten out. That said, if you wait for the adoption to fully play out before jumping in, you could miss a lot of upside. But with each new entrant, it helps the network. The bigger names now are MSTR, TSLA, PYPL, SQ and some small public miners.

Q1 and Q2 announcements in ~April/July might be interesting. But given the time frame it takes boards to do anything like this, Q3 is when I am guessing more heavy weights announce their entrance.

/Who knows

Aa pure investment, sure, a person/business could easily be missing out by not obtaining a certain amount of BTC and sitting on it to see what happens.  That's all BTC is right now - a high-risk investment with potentially high-return.  As such, you have to be willing to either lose it all or sit on it until it's worth selling for a large profit.  That's totally different from using it as a means of exchange on a day-to-day basis for a large part of your business.

Maybe bitcoin will become less volatile over time, maybe it won't.  Even if it does appear to become stable for what, in the digital, age is a "long" time (say, I dunno, 5 years) most people who need to exchange currency on a daily basis will still have a living memory of it being volatile and will inherently trust it less than a dollar or a pound.  I could be wrong, but I have a hard time seeing how that uncertainty and distrust goes away in less than a human generation.

This is what I don't get. Bitcoin heads, assuming they have a decent amount already purchased, have basically won. Just take your winnings, crow a little bit about how right you were, and go home. But they have this odd obsession with it being the next big currency even though there are literally no indications it's going to happen in our lifetime. It's like if you won $100,000 on a slot machine and then insisted that slot machines would soon replace the dollar as the world's currency


It is a valid point.

But you dont bench your star pitcher in the 2nd. 7th maybe.
 
2021-03-08 2:55:24 PM  

AsparagusFTW: It is a valid point.

But you dont bench your star pitcher in the 2nd. 7th maybe.


I the baseball analogy here (and not just because I happen to like baseball) but think it has a different lesson.

In the regular season, sure - you keep a starting pitcher in the game if he's on a winning streak, but you also know that even if he blows the game, in the long run you can usually afford to take the risk of losing 1 game out of 162.  If it's a close score in and elimination or otherwise critical game in the playoffs though - you damn well pull your starter as soon as he shows any sign of volatility or weakness, even if he is Pedro farking Martinez.

For most people/businesses who will deal in bitcoin any time in the near future, it's the regular season -  they can afford to take the risk, and can absorb the loss without ending up homeless or hungry.  For many, many other people, every day/month is an elimination game - if their savings/paycheck is in BTC and it takes a dive, then they just can't pay the bills and lose their business or their home and the season is over.
 
2021-03-08 4:06:49 PM  

AsparagusFTW: It's tech. The youtube we use now is not the same youtube from a decade ago.  Trope answer, but those issues are being solved. I cant imagine where itll be in another 12 years.


What makes you so sure that bitcoin is the YouTube of finance?  Why couldn't it be the AltaVista or the Friendster?
 
2021-03-08 5:11:18 PM  

Olympic Trolling Judge: AsparagusFTW: It's tech. The youtube we use now is not the same youtube from a decade ago.  Trope answer, but those issues are being solved. I cant imagine where itll be in another 12 years.

What makes you so sure that bitcoin is the YouTube of finance?  Why couldn't it be the AltaVista or the Friendster?


Very well could be. But btc won the network effect race. You have Wall Street jumping on board, a Senator now and millions of people using it. A better crypto can come down the pipeline at some point. But they have to topple a ~900bill asset. Can someone create a better smartphone over Apple? Sure. But good luck getting users to take the plunge.
 
2021-03-08 10:08:29 PM  

AsparagusFTW: TabASlotB: AsparagusFTW: Just them asking this question, and also the rules they issued through the OCC, they have legitimized bitcoin.

They cant stop it, so their only hope is to stifle it enough to get out their own FedCoin.

/They lost

What one "FedCoin" might look like:
[Fark user image image 800x346]

The funny thing is, is that the ECB has said they are 5 years away from their digitalEuro. I assume a similar timeframe for the Fed. That means theyll be only 17 years behind the technology when it hits the market. I cant imagine where Crypto will be then given how fast the market is moving. They cant stop it given its decentralized nature, so they have to throw mud and hope to slow it down. It is why Yellen and Lagarde keep bringing up "OMG THE CRIME!" whenever they can. That was valid 7 years ago but the industry has mainly moved on.


That just depends on what you mean by stop it

'They' absolutely could make it illegal. They just need enough support and they can pass any law they want. See: the war on drugs.

Like the war on drugs, they can't stop BTC, but also like the war on drugs, they *can* stop a huge number of legit businesses and individuals from wanting to touch BTC.

Personally, I don't see why the government wouldn't embrace BTC. Governments love tracking people and bitcoin perfectly tracks everything.
 
2021-03-08 10:11:17 PM  

trialpha: AsparagusFTW: trialpha: How the hell does anyone expect to run an economy with a currency that supports 7 transactions a second? That's only what, 10 orders of magnitude less than required?

Lightning Network

Sits on top of the BTC layer. You and I could do 127 transactions, and when we agree to stop transacting with each other, only the net is recorded, not the 127 transactions.

If BTC effectively requires an entire layer around it to make it useful, why not just use a better designed currency that doesn't have that problem?


Lots of people have. There are tons of other crypto that are, in many ways, better.

The biggest reason people stick with BTC is because... It is BTC.

These are require people to collectively agree they are valuable. BTC was the first big name
 
2021-03-08 10:19:50 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: AsparagusFTW: TabASlotB: AsparagusFTW: Just them asking this question, and also the rules they issued through the OCC, they have legitimized bitcoin.

They cant stop it, so their only hope is to stifle it enough to get out their own FedCoin.

/They lost

What one "FedCoin" might look like:
[Fark user image image 800x346]

The funny thing is, is that the ECB has said they are 5 years away from their digitalEuro. I assume a similar timeframe for the Fed. That means theyll be only 17 years behind the technology when it hits the market. I cant imagine where Crypto will be then given how fast the market is moving. They cant stop it given its decentralized nature, so they have to throw mud and hope to slow it down. It is why Yellen and Lagarde keep bringing up "OMG THE CRIME!" whenever they can. That was valid 7 years ago but the industry has mainly moved on.

That just depends on what you mean by stop it

'They' absolutely could make it illegal. They just need enough support and they can pass any law they want. See: the war on drugs.

Like the war on drugs, they can't stop BTC, but also like the war on drugs, they *can* stop a huge number of legit businesses and individuals from wanting to touch BTC.

Personally, I don't see why the government wouldn't embrace BTC. Governments love tracking people and bitcoin perfectly tracks everything.


I would have agreed with you until recently. Now that Wall Street is heavily on board, and BTC is being placed on corporate balance sheets, it makes it extremely difficult to put massive control on it. BTC now has Wall Street's lobbying power to shoot down bad legislation. That was the biggest hurdle I had on it for the longest time. But Saylor blew the door wide open, and now it is a race. If they step in to ban or make it difficult, we are at a point where it could cause a systemic economic issue, and I dont see them doing that, personally.

Like I have mentioned above, idk. Can go a million different ways, but I see it as though they missed their mark. They are pants on head dumb, so it is still a possibility they go for it. There is a non-zero chance they do it, but I just personally think they are too late. If they try it, I wouldn't be surprised though. It is going to jam their printer.

The country thing is interesting. I have a feeling we will see some Government embrace it this year. I want to say there was a country or two in Africa discussing it, but I am not sure if they have made the transition or if they are going to follow through. We will see a first adopter soon, on the sovereign level.
 
2021-03-08 10:37:19 PM  

AsparagusFTW: I would have agreed with you until recently. Now that Wall Street is heavily on board, and BTC is being placed on corporate balance sheets, it makes it extremely difficult to put massive control on it. BTC now has Wall Street's lobbying power to shoot down bad legislation. That was the biggest hurdle I had on it for the longest time. But Saylor blew the door wide open, and now it is a race. If they step in to ban or make it difficult, we are at a point where it could cause a systemic economic issue, and I dont see them doing that, personally.


All of that is usage of bitcoin as an asset, not as a currency. I doubt the government really cares about it being used as an asset.

They don't actually need to ban it or do anything to prevent its use as a currency, as the existing rules around it already do that. As an asset, every aspect of it is a taxable event. Buy something with bitcoin? You just sold that bitcoin and need to declare capital gains/loss on it. Receive bitcoin? You now need to recalculate your adjusted cost base. Using bitcoin as a currency will generate thousands of taxable events that all have to be calculated. Accountants will love it. Law enforcement probably will as well, as they won't have to worry too much about being able to arrest people; pretty much everyone will be guilty of tax evasion. All neatly traceable because of the nature of the blockchain.

AsparagusFTW: The country thing is interesting. I have a feeling we will see some Government embrace it this year. I want to say there was a country or two in Africa discussing it, but I am not sure if they have made the transition or if they are going to follow through. We will see a first adopter soon, on the sovereign level.


A country using a currency that they do not control is a good way to economically cripple that country. Look at Greece's problems a few years back - half of it was because they were using the euro and couldn't control their money policy.
 
2021-03-09 1:03:45 AM  

AsparagusFTW: Gestalt: No one has been able to square the circle about how these are "legitimate currency" while also explaining how we can be serious about mitigating climate change when crypto has the carbon footprint of a small town.

Fiat is way more wasteful but no one bats an eyelash. A system of never ending growth and cheap money is a resource hog. Im not giving BTC a pass here, but it is the lesser of 2 evils in this space.


Bullshiat. Bitcoin is more wasteful than any fiat currency. The only thing which wastes more resources than Bitcoin does today, is Bitcoin a month from now.

Cryptocurrency based on "proof of stake" like Ethereum 2.0 might have some legitimate uses in the future, but not the PoW ones which are fundamentally designed to do as much damage to the planet as possible.
 
2021-03-09 3:04:19 AM  

trialpha: AsparagusFTW: I would have agreed with you until recently. Now that Wall Street is heavily on board, and BTC is being placed on corporate balance sheets, it makes it extremely difficult to put massive control on it. BTC now has Wall Street's lobbying power to shoot down bad legislation. That was the biggest hurdle I had on it for the longest time. But Saylor blew the door wide open, and now it is a race. If they step in to ban or make it difficult, we are at a point where it could cause a systemic economic issue, and I dont see them doing that, personally.

All of that is usage of bitcoin as an asset, not as a currency. I doubt the government really cares about it being used as an asset.

They don't actually need to ban it or do anything to prevent its use as a currency, as the existing rules around it already do that. As an asset, every aspect of it is a taxable event. Buy something with bitcoin? You just sold that bitcoin and need to declare capital gains/loss on it. Receive bitcoin? You now need to recalculate your adjusted cost base. Using bitcoin as a currency will generate thousands of taxable events that all have to be calculated. Accountants will love it. Law enforcement probably will as well, as they won't have to worry too much about being able to arrest people; pretty much everyone will be guilty of tax evasion. All neatly traceable because of the nature of the blockchain.

AsparagusFTW: The country thing is interesting. I have a feeling we will see some Government embrace it this year. I want to say there was a country or two in Africa discussing it, but I am not sure if they have made the transition or if they are going to follow through. We will see a first adopter soon, on the sovereign level.

A country using a currency that they do not control is a good way to economically cripple that country. Look at Greece's problems a few years back - half of it was because they were using the euro and couldn't control their money policy.


OTOH how many countries voluntarily use a larger country's currency as their own? Six other countries use the US dollar and 65 others peg their own currency to the dollar. Others, I'm sure, use other major currencies, either directly or indirectly by pegging.

I could see, say, Ecuador deciding to drop the dollar in favor of something more experimental just to put distance between us.
 
2021-03-09 7:55:01 AM  

AsparagusFTW: Gestalt: No one has been able to square the circle about how these are "legitimate currency" while also explaining how we can be serious about mitigating climate change when crypto has the carbon footprint of a small town.

Fiat is way more wasteful but no one bats an eyelash. A system of never ending growth and cheap money is a resource hog. Im not giving BTC a pass here, but it is the lesser of 2 evils in this space.


Blockchain is a gimmick, it's worthless.  We simply don't need it, and the hype is played out.  What gap in currency does bitcoin fill?
They are essentially travellers checks backed in commodities.  Clunky to use, a pain to track for tax purposes, when cash or credit cards are much easier and reliable to use.
We left the gold standard to create a more stable, predictable reservoir of value for the dollar.  BTC has grown in value, however over time it will become less secure due to decentralization and hacking.  And at that time there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
 
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