Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Politico)   Some Democrats not toeing the party line on Puerto Rico statehood   (politico.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Democratic Party, Puerto Rico, Puerto Rico statehood, Democratic Rep. Darren Soto, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, United States, Republican Sen. Rick Scott's win, Puerto Rican descent  
•       •       •

4006 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Mar 2021 at 7:20 AM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



207 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2021-03-07 4:50:36 AM  
I thought you weren't allowed to not toe the party line. You mean I've been lied to by Republicans? 

GASP!
 
2021-03-07 6:58:45 AM  
quickanddirtytips.comView Full Size
 
2021-03-07 7:13:22 AM  
I think I've put my finger on it.
 
2021-03-07 7:13:51 AM  
US: Puerto Rico, why can't you vote to stay or go? It's been over a hundred years since we came and murdered a bunch of you to colonize you, and you've even had democracy (lol) for at least the last 50!

PR: ok, así

US: no! No! You can't vote for that!

PR: sigh. Ok. Ahora, sí

US: why can't you democratically vote for what we want!
...
So to review, last vote was largely considered fair(ish), immediate statehood was voted for definitively.

As I remind farkers, that doesn't mean shiat, has never meant shiat for any statehood process. It still requires congress to pass a statehood resolution.

I'm not hopeful for the continuance of a democracy in the USA, or the USA in general, but if we insist on keeping this dysfunctional, racist, minority ruled, oligarchy Union together, the Democratic party -and anyone who isn't a complete farking Nazi-would be well served both ethically and politically to have PR, population: 3 million US citizens, actually become a farking state like we voted for.

OTOH, I have Boricua friends explain to me in excruciating detail why this is horrible for the island, and I often leave sympathetic with that view as well.

There isn't a right answer except do what the people farking voted for, assholes.
 
2021-03-07 7:21:59 AM  
My boss keeps describing things as "pushing on a thread", and he isn't trying to be funny or ironic.

CSB.
 
2021-03-07 7:25:59 AM  
Anyone who doesn't support statehood for Puerto Rico is apparently perfectly fine with two classes of citizenship.

Puerto Rico has to abide by US laws, but cannot affect them or have governmental representation.

They are a repressed people.
 
DVD
2021-03-07 7:27:32 AM  
Now for your dose of whataboutism - What about Guam, American Samoa and Washington D.C.?
 
2021-03-07 7:27:33 AM  

yohohogreengiant: OTOH, I have Boricua friends explain to me in excruciating detail why this is horrible for the island, and I often leave sympathetic with that view as well.


Do tell, I'm curious why they would be opposed.
 
2021-03-07 7:27:59 AM  
AOC gets that the votes aren't there so her proposal to empower PR to decide on statehood v independence v free association again is face saving way of putting it the back burner for now while noting that PR has options.
 
2021-03-07 7:34:25 AM  

HugeMistake: My boss keeps describing things as "pushing on a thread", and he isn't trying to be funny or ironic.

CSB.


A thread is like a very tiny rope.
 
DVD
2021-03-07 7:36:34 AM  

mrparks: HugeMistake: My boss keeps describing things as "pushing on a thread", and he isn't trying to be funny or ironic.

CSB.

A thread is like a very tiny rope.


__________

And a rope is like a very massive thread!

Usage:  That Fark thread was over 2000 pages long, it was really more of a rope than a thread!
 
2021-03-07 7:37:33 AM  

DVD: Now for your dose of whataboutism - What about Guam, American Samoa and Washington D.C.?


Well we would have to rework the 50 nifty united states song, but other than that I am game.  If they want to be full partners in our shiat show...let em in.
 
2021-03-07 7:44:32 AM  

Sorelian's Ghost: DVD: Now for your dose of whataboutism - What about Guam, American Samoa and Washington D.C.?

Well we would have to rework the 50 nifty united states song, but other than that I am game.  If they want to be full partners in our shiat show...let em in.


Totally.

How many people live in American Samoa again?
 
2021-03-07 7:45:42 AM  
I was speaking with a New Yorker once who had just bought property in Puerto Rico because "if shiat hits the fan, at least (I'm) still in the U.S."

Which was sort of funny because my thinking has always been "if shiat hits the fan stay the hell away from the U.S."
 
2021-03-07 7:58:31 AM  

DVD: Now for your dose of whataboutism - What about Guam, American Samoa and Washington D.C.?


Go Land Crabs!
 
2021-03-07 8:01:13 AM  
The territories are definitely colonialism. They need to either be independent or states. If you funny this and don't comment, you are a coward and know I am telling the truth.
 
2021-03-07 8:01:27 AM  
Does Puerto Rico want statehood?

If yes-> Give them statehood
If no-> Don't give them statehood.

This isn't hard. Something like 95% of their populace voted to become a state a few years back.
 
2021-03-07 8:04:11 AM  

italie: Does Puerto Rico want statehood?

If yes-> Give them statehood
If no-> Don't give them statehood.

This isn't hard. Something like 95% of their populace voted to become a state a few years back.


Yeah, but turnout was 23%.
 
2021-03-07 8:05:00 AM  

italie: Does Puerto Rico want statehood?

If yes-> Give them statehood
If no-> Don't give them statehood.

This isn't hard. Something like 95% of their populace voted to become a state a few years back.


It's not quite 95%, but it is a large enough majority. After all, opinion there shifts over time like anywhere else.
 
2021-03-07 8:05:37 AM  

DVD: Now for your dose of whataboutism - What about Guam, American Samoa and Washington D.C.?


Guam and American Samoa are tiny compared to Puerto Rico.

Given their locations, they should be strongly encouraged to join the Marianas and Samoa, respectively.
 
2021-03-07 8:06:27 AM  

qorkfiend: italie: Does Puerto Rico want statehood?

If yes-> Give them statehood
If no-> Don't give them statehood.

This isn't hard. Something like 95% of their populace voted to become a state a few years back.

Yeah, but turnout was 23%.


Yes that is a problem, getting a proper poll. From what I have seen something like 60% in general across polls I've seen have approved of statehood. Many want independence, but not as much.
 
2021-03-07 8:06:35 AM  
When you play a game poorly, you deserve to lose.
If the Democratic Senate does does not vote to add Puerto Rico as a state before November 2022, they deserve to lose power to the Republicans.
 
2021-03-07 8:06:46 AM  

quatchi: AOC gets that the votes aren't there so her proposal to empower PR to decide on statehood v independence v free association again is face saving way of putting it the back burner for now while noting that PR has options.


Statehood or independence. No other choices should be offered.
 
2021-03-07 8:06:57 AM  

saywhonow: Anyone who doesn't support statehood for Puerto Rico is apparently perfectly fine with two classes of citizenship.

Puerto Rico has to abide by US laws, but cannot affect them or have governmental representation.

They are a repressed people.


Hey, all they have to do is move to the mainland and poof!  Citizenship upgrade!
 
2021-03-07 8:08:16 AM  

nakmuay: yohohogreengiant: OTOH, I have Boricua friends explain to me in excruciating detail why this is horrible for the island, and I often leave sympathetic with that view as well.

Do tell, I'm curious why they would be opposed.


There's a Partida Independentista (which itself can be confusing -it's independent party, not independence which is weird as there are independent candidates as well that have nothing to do with the party anyway). There kinda always has been, if not politically. El Grito de Lares during Spanish colonialism. Albizu Campos in the 20th century...

One argument they make is that even after statehood, the Jones act will remain to some degree, crippling local import/export business and causing problems like the loss of El Faro.

Another is the desire not to be part of the nation that colonized them.

PR has its own culture that is substantially different than anywhere in the USA, that they wish to strengthen. Statehood would dilute it further.

Also, I have to be fair in saying, of the few Independentista I know they are also well off-ish, business or property owning and politically affiliated of not well connected.

In each conversation I've had, I bring up "so we'd be like DR." I'm kinda being a dick with that, because there's real actual poverty in DR, the kind that isn't really permitted here because of Federal programs funding local agencies (like every other poor state in the USA). I expected to get lambasted, but a couple of them were like -exactamente. They also have an expressed... Interest in Venezuela and Russia that raises my hackles.

It occurred to me that they'd be okay with that transition, as they'd expect to be economically, socially and politically driving. So good arguments, but I'm not sold on the motivation. But I'm not Puertorriqueño , so it's just, like, my opinion, man. Also I lived through Maria and the paper towel throwing so... That greatly has an impact on my view.

These are anecdotes, not data. My Spanish is clunky and sucks, but this is definitely what I was hearing, more than once. Partida Independentista has a website. Check em.
 
2021-03-07 8:09:26 AM  

MillionDollarMo: I was speaking with a New Yorker once who had just bought property in Puerto Rico because "if shiat hits the fan, at least (I'm) still in the U.S."

Which was sort of funny because my thinking has always been "if shiat hits the fan stay the hell away from the U.S."


Unless he understood what life is down here... It's isn't retirement in Florida if that's what he's thinking.
 
2021-03-07 8:10:10 AM  

yohohogreengiant: Another is the desire not to be part of the nation that colonized them.


Understandable, but nobody is suggesting they become part of Spain.
 
2021-03-07 8:10:28 AM  

Permanent Solutions For Permanent Problems: quatchi: AOC gets that the votes aren't there so her proposal to empower PR to decide on statehood v independence v free association again is face saving way of putting it the back burner for now while noting that PR has options.

Statehood or independence. No other choices should be offered.


This vote occurred this last election, it went statehood, it's doesn't farking matter, see my earlier post.
 
2021-03-07 8:12:37 AM  
Oh Democrats. Forever snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Oh well, at least you're not Nazis.
 
2021-03-07 8:12:48 AM  

Permanent Solutions For Permanent Problems: yohohogreengiant: Another is the desire not to be part of the nation that colonized them.

Understandable, but nobody is suggesting they become part of Spain.


Cute. What do you do for an encore?
 
2021-03-07 8:13:09 AM  

Permanent Solutions For Permanent Problems: quatchi: AOC gets that the votes aren't there so her proposal to empower PR to decide on statehood v independence v free association again is face saving way of putting it the back burner for now while noting that PR has options.

Statehood or independence. No other choices should be offered.


Exactly. To anybody that doesn't think this is colonialism, then explain what this country was founded on, "No taxation without representation"?
 
2021-03-07 8:15:17 AM  
Time for Puerto Rican independence. End the colonialism.
 
2021-03-07 8:17:40 AM  

Erebus1954: Time for Puerto Rican independence. End the colonialism.


Except that isn't what they voted for. They voted for statehood. Or does that matter?
 
2021-03-07 8:19:24 AM  

yohohogreengiant: Erebus1954: Time for Puerto Rican independence. End the colonialism.

Except that isn't what they voted for. They voted for statehood. Or does that matter?


Either way, they know they need to pick a direction, with the Repubs actively trying to destroy them and the Dems standing idly by.
 
2021-03-07 8:22:05 AM  

qorkfiend: italie: Does Puerto Rico want statehood?

If yes-> Give them statehood
If no-> Don't give them statehood.

This isn't hard. Something like 95% of their populace voted to become a state a few years back.

Yeah, but turnout was 23%.


Yeah, we only got something like 40% turnout in 2016 and still got Trump, that's how elections work I guess. It would be cool if there was some way to poll everyone and force them to choose, but there are those that are happy to just say "whatever" that that is what they get.
 
2021-03-07 8:22:20 AM  

qorkfiend: italie: Does Puerto Rico want statehood?

If yes-> Give them statehood
If no-> Don't give them statehood.

This isn't hard. Something like 95% of their populace voted to become a state a few years back.

Yeah, but turnout was 23%.


If that's true, fair statement/concern that can be resolved
 
2021-03-07 8:23:13 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: saywhonow: Anyone who doesn't support statehood for Puerto Rico is apparently perfectly fine with two classes of citizenship.

Puerto Rico has to abide by US laws, but cannot affect them or have governmental representation.

They are a repressed people.

Hey, all they have to do is move to the mainland and poof!  Citizenship upgrade!


Meanwhile, if you live on this plot of land over here, you're just a number on a sheet with no electoral power.
 
2021-03-07 8:26:44 AM  

yohohogreengiant: nakmuay: yohohogreengiant: OTOH, I have Boricua friends explain to me in excruciating detail why this is horrible for the island, and I often leave sympathetic with that view as well.

Do tell, I'm curious why they would be opposed.

There's a Partida Independentista (which itself can be confusing -it's independent party, not independence which is weird as there are independent candidates as well that have nothing to do with the party anyway). There kinda always has been, if not politically. El Grito de Lares during Spanish colonialism. Albizu Campos in the 20th century...

One argument they make is that even after statehood, the Jones act will remain to some degree, crippling local import/export business and causing problems like the loss of El Faro.

Another is the desire not to be part of the nation that colonized them.

PR has its own culture that is substantially different than anywhere in the USA, that they wish to strengthen. Statehood would dilute it further.

Also, I have to be fair in saying, of the few Independentista I know they are also well off-ish, business or property owning and politically affiliated of not well connected.

In each conversation I've had, I bring up "so we'd be like DR." I'm kinda being a dick with that, because there's real actual poverty in DR, the kind that isn't really permitted here because of Federal programs funding local agencies (like every other poor state in the USA). I expected to get lambasted, but a couple of them were like -exactamente. They also have an expressed... Interest in Venezuela and Russia that raises my hackles.

It occurred to me that they'd be okay with that transition, as they'd expect to be economically, socially and politically driving. So good arguments, but I'm not sold on the motivation. But I'm not Puertorriqueño , so it's just, like, my opinion, man. Also I lived through Maria and the paper towel throwing so... That greatly has an impact on my view.

These are anecdotes, not data. My Spanish is clunky and sucks, but this is definitely what I was hearing, more than once. Partida Independentista has a website. Check em.


My takeaway is that a lot of the people opposed to statehood are wealthy and really really enjoy hiding the bulk of their income in shell companies where it is currently only taxed at 4%.
 
2021-03-07 8:26:53 AM  

johnphantom: yohohogreengiant: Erebus1954: Time for Puerto Rican independence. End the colonialism.

Except that isn't what they voted for. They voted for statehood. Or does that matter?

Either way, they know they need to pick a direction, with the Repubs actively trying to destroy them and the Dems standing idly by.


We picked a way, it doesn't matter, our choice matters even less than yours does. PR voted statehood unequivocally last election. Immediate statehood.

Congress decides. Our resident fark GED constitutional lawyers will explain this shortly probably.

The only choice is to move to the States or suck it here unless congress decides to farking do it.

It's isn't about PR's wants, never was. That's what being a colony is.
 
2021-03-07 8:27:48 AM  

vygramul: I thought you weren't allowed to not toe the party line. You mean I've been lied to by Republicans? 

GASP!


Yep, democrats can agree to do something that will overwhelmingly help Democratic Party, and therefore America(not that whatever helps the democrats helps America, but the democrats actually seem to care about the country and its citizens).  Why would anyone ever think they could agree to conspire to overthrow democracy or take over the country or even what to order for lunch.  It's so absurd the leve to which republicans have been conditioned to fear liberals.  Like "Oh god, these people will compromise in the face of opposition!  They will splinter into factions over alMost anything.  We're doomed!"
 
2021-03-07 8:28:02 AM  

italie: qorkfiend: italie: Does Puerto Rico want statehood?

If yes-> Give them statehood
If no-> Don't give them statehood.

This isn't hard. Something like 95% of their populace voted to become a state a few years back.

Yeah, but turnout was 23%.

If that's true, fair statement/concern that can be resolved


2020 had a real turnout. It was considered fair(ish). There were only two choices: state or independence. Statehood got the vote.
 
2021-03-07 8:29:12 AM  

snowjack: yohohogreengiant: nakmuay: yohohogreengiant: OTOH, I have Boricua friends explain to me in excruciating detail why this is horrible for the island, and I often leave sympathetic with that view as well.

Do tell, I'm curious why they would be opposed.

There's a Partida Independentista (which itself can be confusing -it's independent party, not independence which is weird as there are independent candidates as well that have nothing to do with the party anyway). There kinda always has been, if not politically. El Grito de Lares during Spanish colonialism. Albizu Campos in the 20th century...

One argument they make is that even after statehood, the Jones act will remain to some degree, crippling local import/export business and causing problems like the loss of El Faro.

Another is the desire not to be part of the nation that colonized them.

PR has its own culture that is substantially different than anywhere in the USA, that they wish to strengthen. Statehood would dilute it further.

Also, I have to be fair in saying, of the few Independentista I know they are also well off-ish, business or property owning and politically affiliated of not well connected.

In each conversation I've had, I bring up "so we'd be like DR." I'm kinda being a dick with that, because there's real actual poverty in DR, the kind that isn't really permitted here because of Federal programs funding local agencies (like every other poor state in the USA). I expected to get lambasted, but a couple of them were like -exactamente. They also have an expressed... Interest in Venezuela and Russia that raises my hackles.

It occurred to me that they'd be okay with that transition, as they'd expect to be economically, socially and politically driving. So good arguments, but I'm not sold on the motivation. But I'm not Puertorriqueño , so it's just, like, my opinion, man. Also I lived through Maria and the paper towel throwing so... That greatly has an impact on my view.

These are anecdotes, not data. My Spanish is clunky and sucks, but this is definitely what I was hearing, more than once. Partida Independentista has a website. Check em.

My takeaway is that a lot of the people opposed to statehood are wealthy and really really enjoy hiding the bulk of their income in shell companies where it is currently only taxed at 4%.


When I scratch the paint off the public good intentions, that's certainly what I see as well.
 
2021-03-07 8:29:28 AM  
They don't want to buy the new 51 star flags. But with Texas dropping out, they don't need to worry about that.
 
2021-03-07 8:37:03 AM  

roadkillontheweb: They don't want to buy the new 51 star flags. But with Texas dropping out, they don't need to worry about that.


Hmmmm. OK, deal.
 
2021-03-07 8:38:25 AM  

roadkillontheweb: They don't want to buy the new 51 star flags. But with Texas dropping out, they don't need to worry about that.


I think Schmer knows Puerto Rico knew it had a good deal in the works getting traded for Greenland...

But I think the interesting takeaway here is that the FL politicans, R and D, support statehood, but NY politicans don't.
 
2021-03-07 8:39:14 AM  
There was a very good discussion the other day at electoral-vote.com about DC statehood vs. Puerto Rico. PR is much more "foreign" than DC. The District would be a slam dunk for the Democrats because two new senators and a representative. PR isn't nearly so cut and dried. They would probably have one each Democratic and GOP senator. And the party system in PR doesn't even match up neatly with the system in the existing U.S.
 
2021-03-07 8:41:18 AM  

yohohogreengiant: snowjack: yohohogreengiant: nakmuay: yohohogreengiant: OTOH, I have Boricua friends explain to me in excruciating detail why this is horrible for the island, and I often leave sympathetic with that view as well.

Do tell, I'm curious why they would be opposed.
These are anecdotes, ...


Good read, thanks!
 
2021-03-07 8:43:00 AM  

DoctorFarkGood: roadkillontheweb: They don't want to buy the new 51 star flags. But with Texas dropping out, they don't need to worry about that.

I think Schmer knows Puerto Rico knew it had a good deal in the works getting traded for Greenland...

But I think the interesting takeaway here is that the FL politicans, R and D, support statehood, but NY politicans don't.


History is farking hilarious.

Greenland is a Danish holding, right?

There are three old colonial Danish islands about forty miles to the east of here...

...that the US purchased (a deal the Danes couldn't refuse basically) back in 1918.

Lol. I don't think the Danes are interested in a Caribbean colony anymore. That ship sailed.
 
2021-03-07 8:44:43 AM  
We always do this.  Majority of Puerto Ricans want statehood.  The rest are split between wanting to stay as they are or being independent, but because the pro-Independent crowd is so vocal, we always back down, because we are worried about looking like evil imperials.  

Meanwhile, the Republicans laugh, and keep the current game going, because they love the current system where we imperialize the brown people by ruling over them without allowing them representation.  

Yeah, whatever we do, there are going to be a significant number of Puerto Ricans who are pissed off because their side did not win, but the majority want statehood, and it turns out that is also what would be best for both the United States as a whole, and for Puerto Rico in the long term.

Sure, there may be some economic benefits to remaining a territory, but these are almost all entirely short term.  Had PR became a state the same year Hawaii did, their current economic situation would have been greatly much improved by now.
 
2021-03-07 8:55:21 AM  

mksmith: There was a very good discussion the other day at electoral-vote.com about DC statehood vs. Puerto Rico. PR is much more "foreign" than DC. The District would be a slam dunk for the Democrats because two new senators and a representative. PR isn't nearly so cut and dried. They would probably have one each Democratic and GOP senator. And the party system in PR doesn't even match up neatly with the system in the existing U.S.


Weird.

Living here, the opposite seems the case. DC was never intended as a state and there will be constitutional challenges by the Republican fascists.

There is no such argument possible against PR ascension. Hawai'i actually serves as a precedent. DC as a state from a federal capitol would truly be something new though.

It depends on where you live
 
Displayed 50 of 207 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking





On Twitter



  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.