Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Yahoo)   Because Fark you, that's why   (yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Electricity distribution, Electricity market, Electricity, Supply and demand, Energy market, Electric power transmission, Independent System Operator, Electricity retailing  
•       •       •

1612 clicks; posted to Business » on 06 Mar 2021 at 9:14 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



33 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-03-06 8:50:02 AM  
I think the bigger story here is that Texas actually has regulators
 
2021-03-06 9:17:07 AM  
I think we'll see both moving vans and refrigerator trucks in Texas soon.
 
2021-03-06 9:20:13 AM  
Good.  I don't want to bail out people who signed up for these on demand energy rates.

Take the good with the bad.  I didn't get any savings when you got cheap bills, don't expect me to pay when things go south.
 
2021-03-06 9:28:49 AM  
Because they don't care about their constituents.
 
2021-03-06 9:36:22 AM  

BilldaCat10: Good.  I don't want to bail out people who signed up for these on demand energy rates.

Take the good with the bad.  I didn't get any savings when you got cheap bills, don't expect me to pay when things go south.


Agree with that to an extent.

But there is the fact that someone somwhere up the line is going to pay the market rate. While utility providers are an easy target for disdain, a municipal co-op electric company can't just absorb a 10,000% price spike. So maybe the individual customer has a guaranteed rate, but the operator won't have the revenue to pay a week of market prices 100x the norm. So now the local company folds - then what?
 
2021-03-06 9:49:10 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


"Oh we're sorry. Yes that is terrible.  Just too bad.  We'd looove to help, but that's just going to cause more problems, then fixing those problems are gonna cause others.  And that's just work we don't want to do."
 
2021-03-06 9:50:03 AM  

lizyrd: BilldaCat10: Good.  I don't want to bail out people who signed up for these on demand energy rates.

Take the good with the bad.  I didn't get any savings when you got cheap bills, don't expect me to pay when things go south.

Agree with that to an extent.

But there is the fact that someone somwhere up the line is going to pay the market rate. While utility providers are an easy target for disdain, a municipal co-op electric company can't just absorb a 10,000% price spike. So maybe the individual customer has a guaranteed rate, but the operator won't have the revenue to pay a week of market prices 100x the norm. So now the local company folds - then what?


Assuming the retail energy provider goes into liquidation, the power generator likely gets reimbursement below the cost of generating the power.  Then they file for bankruptcy, and the investors like Ted Cruz's wife take a haircut and she is shunned at her Goldman Sachs lunch room and the country club.  Clearly the answer is to cut education and public health spending to make sure this doesn't happen.  The wealthy are job creators and keep our economy steady and growing.  Why do you hate capitalism?
 
2021-03-06 9:59:13 AM  
Will the regulators mount up? Will New York City send a rope? Tune in next week for the exciting conclusion.
 
2021-03-06 10:04:51 AM  

italie: Will the regulators mount up?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-06 10:16:48 AM  
I hope their bills are printed in NYC.
 
2021-03-06 10:22:24 AM  

Aar1012: I think the bigger story here is that Texas actually has regulators


Warren G - Regulate (Official Music Video) ft. Nate Dogg
Youtube 1plPyJdXKIY
 
2021-03-06 10:31:12 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: I hope their bills are printed in NYC.


NEW YORK CITY!?!

Get a rope.
 
2021-03-06 10:36:42 AM  

sirrerun: Aar1012: I think the bigger story here is that Texas actually has regulators

[YouTube video: Warren G - Regulate (Official Music Video) ft. Nate Dogg]


An explanation of Warren G's "Regulate"
 
2021-03-06 10:40:38 AM  

BilldaCat10: Good.  I don't want to bail out people who signed up for these on demand energy rates.

Take the good with the bad.  I didn't get any savings when you got cheap bills, don't expect me to pay when things go south.


Also, at least one of them sent out notifications to it's customers telling them that they were highly advised to switch providers to avoid this, which were mostly ignored.
 
2021-03-06 10:41:26 AM  

lizyrd: BilldaCat10: Good.  I don't want to bail out people who signed up for these on demand energy rates.

Take the good with the bad.  I didn't get any savings when you got cheap bills, don't expect me to pay when things go south.

Agree with that to an extent.

But there is the fact that someone somwhere up the line is going to pay the market rate. While utility providers are an easy target for disdain, a municipal co-op electric company can't just absorb a 10,000% price spike. So maybe the individual customer has a guaranteed rate, but the operator won't have the revenue to pay a week of market prices 100x the norm. So now the local company folds - then what?


Let me just take a look at my federal student loans...

Yeah I don't give a fark about Texans and their energy problems. Can't have my tax money going to bail out a failed red state. That's socialism.

I have friends in Texas. They voted for Trump and Abbott and they get what they farking get
 
2021-03-06 10:44:06 AM  

lizyrd: But there is the fact that someone somwhere up the line is going to pay the market rate. While utility providers are an easy target for disdain, a municipal co-op electric company can't just absorb a 10,000% price spike. So maybe the individual customer has a guaranteed rate, but the operator won't have the revenue to pay a week of market prices 100x the norm. So now the local company folds - then what?


Why would they fold?  They have people who can math that factor things like this in, which is why they are usually more expensive, and can raise capital through bonds if they need a bit more in the short term.

Plus, if they did go bankrupt, so what?  Someone buys them and now people notice their electric bill has a new company name on it.
 
2021-03-06 10:49:29 AM  

Northern: lizyrd: BilldaCat10: Good.  I don't want to bail out people who signed up for these on demand energy rates.

Take the good with the bad.  I didn't get any savings when you got cheap bills, don't expect me to pay when things go south.

Agree with that to an extent.

But there is the fact that someone somwhere up the line is going to pay the market rate. While utility providers are an easy target for disdain, a municipal co-op electric company can't just absorb a 10,000% price spike. So maybe the individual customer has a guaranteed rate, but the operator won't have the revenue to pay a week of market prices 100x the norm. So now the local company folds - then what?

Assuming the retail energy provider goes into liquidation, the power generator likely gets reimbursement below the cost of generating the power.  Then they file for bankruptcy, and the investors like Ted Cruz's wife take a haircut and she is shunned at her Goldman Sachs lunch room and the country club.  Clearly the answer is to cut education and public health spending to make sure this doesn't happen.  The wealthy are job creators and keep our economy steady and growing.  Why do you hate capitalism?


Right. But by "what then," I mean the outcome to the local provider - are they able to continue purchasing electricity while in liquidation?  Do they have to sell assets, ones that keep their system operating, like bucket trucks and backhoes?  Essentially, are they going to be able to keep the lights on in their service area during their bankruptcy?  What about post-liquidation, if they can't find anyone to buy the operation. Is there just going to be no electric company?  What about the co-ops, are the participating municipalities on the hook as co-owners of the system?  How much bankruptcy protection does a government get afforded?
 
2021-03-06 11:07:17 AM  

lizyrd: Right. But by "what then," I mean the outcome to the local provider - are they able to continue purchasing electricity while in liquidation?  Do they have to sell assets, ones that keep their system operating, like bucket trucks and backhoes?  Essentially, are they going to be able to keep the lights on in their service area during their bankruptcy?  What about post-liquidation, if they can't find anyone to buy the operation. Is there just going to be no electric company?  What about the co-ops, are the participating municipalities on the hook as co-owners of the system?  How much bankruptcy protection does a government get afforded?


None of those things.  They don't liquidate, they are sold.  Customers don't even notice.

If they are owned by a government, the government may go bankrupt.
 
2021-03-06 11:38:54 AM  

iheartscotch: Because they don't care about their constituents.


Unregulated (or poorly regulated) capitalism isn't for the benefit of the majority of constituents. It is intended for the benefit of a select few, and would you stop paying attention to that man behind the curtain.
 
2021-03-06 11:40:29 AM  
I enjoy the red state schadenfreude as much as the next guy, but this is BS.  The rates were supposed to go back down once the power generation came back online.  When it did, they kept charging the exorbitant rate to the tune of 16 billion dollars.  Fark them.
 
2021-03-06 12:14:47 PM  

BMFPitt: lizyrd: Right. But by "what then," I mean the outcome to the local provider - are they able to continue purchasing electricity while in liquidation?  Do they have to sell assets, ones that keep their system operating, like bucket trucks and backhoes?  Essentially, are they going to be able to keep the lights on in their service area during their bankruptcy?  What about post-liquidation, if they can't find anyone to buy the operation. Is there just going to be no electric company?  What about the co-ops, are the participating municipalities on the hook as co-owners of the system?  How much bankruptcy protection does a government get afforded?

None of those things.  They don't liquidate, they are sold.  Customers don't even notice.

If they are owned by a government, the government may go bankrupt.


Sold for how much?  And what responsibility does the buyer have to resolve the debts of the purchased company?  Because one city in the article was talking about 25 years worth of associated fees being charged last month. It's not in a position to be a very profitable enterprise if any of the debt carries through the sale.

I don't know how the "customer won't even notice" when either the customer a) lost his shirt betting on variable pricing and has a 5-figure bill, or 2) has fixed pricing but his provider doesn't have the revenue to cover a 10,000% price spike. One way or another, the customer is going to notice.

As far as municipal bankruptcy - it can happen, but a solvent city being forced to bankruptcy because of a 10-day skyrocket of electrical pricing is very much going to be noticed; taxes go up to make payments on debts (my understanding is chapter 9 doesn't discharge the debt), taxes go up because bond rating goes to shiat, services decline in an effort to mitigate the increased taxes. Which sucks enough for sad declining cities where the mill closed 20 years ago and the ship's been slowly sinking and everyone knew receivership was just a matter of when, but for a solvent city to suddenly find themselves there because it got cold for a week?  Once again, the customer is going to notice.
 
2021-03-06 12:18:05 PM  

BilldaCat10: Good.  I don't want to bail out people who signed up for these on demand energy rates.

Take the good with the bad.  I didn't get any savings when you got cheap bills, don't expect me to pay when things go south.


I see your point, but you've also got things like electrical co-ops that had to take what they could get, and that was that type of contract.  Because Texas is farking psychotic about utilities, and co-ops unless they're huuuge have about zero leverage on pricing.  This isn't all "You dug your own grave."  In some cases it's "You did a dumb thing because there were no smart alternatives you could get, and you needed the service."
 
2021-03-06 12:26:43 PM  
Funny, because ERCOT frequently re-rates "corrections" due to undercharging.
 
2021-03-06 12:36:16 PM  

lizyrd: Sold for how much?


Who cares?

And what responsibility does the buyer have to resolve the debts of the purchased company?

Either they are sold to avoid bankruptcy, then all of it (or some amount negotiated with the creditors to facilitate the sale), or they are sold after bankruptcy, and then none of it.  Depends how deep in debt they are.  But they would have to have been spectacularly mismanaged for option #2.

Because one city in the article was talking about 25 years worth of associated fees being charged last month. It's not in a position to be a very profitable enterprise if any of the debt carries through the sale.

Municipal bankruptcy is more like personal bankruptcy.  You still owe something that gets paid off over time.  Corporate bankruptcy is more like foreclosure, where the bank gets the house and that's the end of it.  Except that the house was the one who took out the mortgage on itself.

I don't know how the "customer won't even notice" when either the customer a) lost his shirt betting on variable pricing and has a 5-figure bill, or 2) has fixed pricing but his provider doesn't have the revenue to cover a 10,000% price spike. One way or another, the customer is going to notice.

#1 is irrelevant, since we're talking specifically about #2.  And I've been explaining why #2 doesn't have any tangible effect on the customer.

As far as municipal bankruptcy - it can happen, but a solvent city being forced to bankruptcy because of a 10-day skyrocket of electrical pricing is very much going to be noticed; taxes go up to make payments on debts (my understanding is chapter 9 doesn't discharge the debt), taxes go up because bond rating goes to shiat, services decline in an effort to mitigate the increased taxes. Which sucks enough for sad declining cities where the mill closed 20 years ago and the ship's been slowly sinking and everyone knew receivership was just a matter of when, but for a solvent city to suddenly find themselves there because it got cold for a week?  Once again, the customer is going to notice.

I object to your use of the word "solvent" to describe a city that can be forced into bankruptcy over a 10 day electrical price spike.
 
2021-03-06 1:19:39 PM  
Something ain't right here.
 
2021-03-06 1:30:29 PM  

kdawg7736: Something ain't right here.


Forget it Jake, it's Texass.
 
2021-03-06 2:42:33 PM  
Any profit you can walk away with is a "good" profit. -- Old Bourgeois Maxim
 
2021-03-06 5:28:38 PM  

lizyrd: Agree with that to an extent.

But there is the fact that someone somwhere up the line is going to pay the market rate. While utility providers are an easy target for disdain, a municipal co-op electric company can't just absorb a 10,000% price spike. So


A 10,000% price spike is a 100x cost increase.

That 10,000% price spike was an entirely artificial construct, created by to the automatic mechanisms in place to balance lower the demands and make sure to keep up production.  In this instance, it failed spectacularly and everything spiraled out of control regardless.

There is NO CHANCE IN HELL that the actual costs of the energy production companies also increased a hundred fold.  Yes, they went full capacity where ever they could. Yes, the spend more in coal/oil/overtime wages whatever -- but I don't believe for a second that they spend a hundred times more then they normally would... Which means that the majority of these insane bills comes straight from the pockets of residential subscribers flows through some middlemen, and goes ends directly into the "profit" bin of the actual energy suppliers.

The right thing to do at this point is to admit the entire system failed and come to a gentlemen's agreement to prevent people from getting royally farked over by this.

/But no, that would be socialisms and the only time that's OK is when it's the government bailing out trillion dollar companies
 
2021-03-06 7:46:14 PM  

Aar1012: I think the bigger story here is that Texas actually has regulators


Someone has to take the bribes.
 
2021-03-07 8:48:32 AM  
This behavior is criminal. Find whomever is in charge of refusing to correct this extortion, gouging and thievery, and get them behind bars.
 
2021-03-07 2:39:26 PM  

MattyBlast: This behavior is criminal. Find whomever is in charge of refusing to correct this extortion, gouging and thievery, and get them behind bars.


Helpful picture of the only bars they'll be getting behind:
Fark user imageView Full Size



/It's the golden rule: Those who have the gold, make the rules.
 
2021-03-07 8:09:06 PM  

BilldaCat10: Good.  I don't want to bail out people who signed up for these on demand energy rates.

Take the good with the bad.  I didn't get any savings when you got cheap bills, don't expect me to pay when things go south.


We should forgive these bills just like we shod forgive student loan debt. Our society does not benefit from people shackled to unreasonable debt no matter whose "fault" it is it exists.

Moralizing is for Republicans. Don't be a Republican.
 
2021-03-07 8:11:13 PM  

MizzouFTW: lizyrd: BilldaCat10: Good.  I don't want to bail out people who signed up for these on demand energy rates.

Take the good with the bad.  I didn't get any savings when you got cheap bills, don't expect me to pay when things go south.

Agree with that to an extent.

But there is the fact that someone somwhere up the line is going to pay the market rate. While utility providers are an easy target for disdain, a municipal co-op electric company can't just absorb a 10,000% price spike. So maybe the individual customer has a guaranteed rate, but the operator won't have the revenue to pay a week of market prices 100x the norm. So now the local company folds - then what?

Let me just take a look at my federal student loans...

Yeah I don't give a fark about Texans and their energy problems. Can't have my tax money going to bail out a failed red state. That's socialism.

I have friends in Texas. They voted for Trump and Abbott and they get what they farking get


Or? Or?

Maybe we forgive both instead of making both groups suffer.
 
Displayed 33 of 33 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking





On Twitter



  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.