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(Slate)   Wait. We're supposed to be outraged about "consent culture" now, too?   (slate.com) divider line
    More: Facepalm, Human sexual behavior, Sexual intercourse, Katherine Angel, Tomorrow Sex, Rape, Human sexuality, Angel's own experience, Age of Consent  
•       •       •

6439 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Mar 2021 at 10:05 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-03-05 8:55:19 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


That's it!  Fark this shiat! Throwing in the towel. Next thing I know I will have to have written permission from my hand to masturbate.
 
2021-03-05 9:06:41 AM  
1st the NYTimes "lies are rape" column today, then this.... There is a narrative being constructed.
 
2021-03-05 9:59:34 AM  
One book she quotes argues that if you "can't admit to yourself what you want and don't want when it comes to sex, you're in no condition to share that information with anyone else," a seemingly uncontroversial statement that gets Angel's back up. The purpose of such advice is to foreclose the kind of misunderstanding that often leads to bad sex as well as to murky situations in which two parties walk away from a sexual encounter with very different beliefs about how consensual it was. But sometimes, Angel argues, you don't know what you want, and having sex is a process of discovery. Why should women feel obliged to arrive in bed armed with a fully developed sexual profile in order to feel safe from being forced?

They don't though.  You can start wanting something, and then get tired of it and ask to stop.  Or you can ask for something that you didn't think you wanted at the beginning.  Or you can set parameters, and then change the parameters during.  For example, "You can grope my breasts, but not too hard" can be followed up with "You can go harder than that."  Or, "Do me from behind" can become "Let's switch positions."

I feel like so much of the "consent culture" stuff is intended to target college-aged people, and people having their first couple of sexual experiences with a new partner.  If you're not in those categories, things don't need to be that formal... just talk to one another and respect the boundaries that are set.  Talk before, and talk during.  And ideally talk after, so if there's a "next time" you'll have an idea of what worked and what didn't, or what new stuff you'd like to try.
 
2021-03-05 10:08:31 AM  
When the other party says "no", they really mean "watersports".
 
2021-03-05 10:10:18 AM  
It must be exhausting trying to follow all these neoreligious rituals.

If you're not sure if a woman wants to have sex with you, don't have sex with her.  The worst thing that can happen is you'll have to masturbate that night.
 
2021-03-05 10:10:24 AM  
Is the swirl supposed to be clockwise or counter clock wise?
 
2021-03-05 10:11:18 AM  
FTFA:  "Angel argues, you don't know what you want . . ."

Women are too stupid to know what they want.  Got it.

(Wow, we do have some hangups about sex, don't we.  Holy shiat . . . )
 
2021-03-05 10:11:33 AM  

Judge Judy and Executioner: When the other party says "no", they really mean "watersports".


That's why it's best to say "No" and not "Piss off."
 
2021-03-05 10:11:37 AM  
"So I'm just supposed to  listen when a woman speaks?!"
 
2021-03-05 10:12:02 AM  

Thrakkorzog: [Fark user image image 300x299]

That's it!  Fark this shiat! Throwing in the towel. Next thing I know I will have to have written permission from my hand to masturbate.


Easier than getting from your penis.
 
2021-03-05 10:12:12 AM  

GardenWeasel: 1st the NYTimes "lies are rape" column today, then this.... There is a narrative being constructed.


We're about 6 months away from a man taking the lead while dancing  being considered rape.
 
2021-03-05 10:12:45 AM  

RodneyToady: I feel like so much of the "consent culture" stuff is intended to target college-aged people, and people having their first couple of sexual experiences with a new partner. If you're not in those categories, things don't need to be that formal... just talk to one another and respect the boundaries that are set.  Talk before, and talk during.  And ideally talk after, so if there's a "next time" you'll have an idea of what worked and what didn't, or what new stuff you'd like to try.


And specifically, in university culture, which still sees consent as a minor inconvenience.  Kids are rules-lawyering little shiats, and will whine incessantly if you make them dal with ambiguity.  "Are you fine with this button?" seems excessive, but not when you consider it is aimed at students who will whine that it isn't fair that you followed your syllabus religiously.  These things aren't aimed at normal people with a normal sense of boundaries, but college-age kids who think hentai is the low end of consent.

And to be clear, if she wants it, you will know - and if you don't know, maybe you stop.  And anyone who walks away because you are too polite is someone you need to run away from anyway.
 
2021-03-05 10:13:12 AM  
The comments on the article are bonkers.
 
2021-03-05 10:14:01 AM  
The more I learn about women, the happier I am that Chevy still makes pickup trucks, musicians still make good music, and good beer is easy to find.  Too old for games, indecision, or wasting time.
Ladies, go ahead and cry in your wine.
 
2021-03-05 10:15:31 AM  
Call-out culture.
Then cancel-culture.
Now consent-culture.

Some people think "culture" is a swear word.
 
2021-03-05 10:15:47 AM  

the_rhino: The comments on the article are bonkers.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size


You know who else was Bonkers?
 
2021-03-05 10:15:49 AM  
RodneyToady:

I feel like so much of the "consent culture" stuff is intended to target college-aged people, and people having their first couple of sexual experiences with a new partner.  I

I wonder why that would be? Perhaps its because most college-aged people today spent the last 15+ years of their lives anonymously shiatposting on the internet and living their lives and friendshipts on social media instead of actually going out and learning how to properly socialize with other human beings in a face-to-face setting. So, now that they find themselves in that setting, they're basically toddlers again and have no farking idea how to actually act towards another person that is in front of them instead of behind a screen.

/adjusts onion on belt
//yells at cloud
///watching Matlock now
 
2021-03-05 10:16:05 AM  
Honestly, I could care fewer.
 
2021-03-05 10:16:26 AM  

Smock Pot: "So I'm just supposed to  listen when a woman speaks?!"


We're about 6 months away from a man taking the lead while dancing  being considered rape
 
2021-03-05 10:16:35 AM  
I had a girlfriend who would ask me to force her.  Then she'd yell no and stop, and my instinct was to always stop, and she'd get mad and hit me and tell me to stop ruining it and be rough.

We didn't last long.  But I'm fairly sure that scarred me for life.  The second person I dated like that, I just had to end it pretty quickly.  Too confusing, and I'm not your guy.  But it has made me skeptical of some of these articles.  Women are more complicated than 'no means no,' but I prefer the safety of dating someone where 'no means no,' actually applies, and there's no confusion.
 
2021-03-05 10:16:48 AM  
Rush was.

Fark user imageView Full Size


Bye, Rush!
 
2021-03-05 10:17:09 AM  

phalamir: RodneyToady: I feel like so much of the "consent culture" stuff is intended to target college-aged people, and people having their first couple of sexual experiences with a new partner. If you're not in those categories, things don't need to be that formal... just talk to one another and respect the boundaries that are set.  Talk before, and talk during.  And ideally talk after, so if there's a "next time" you'll have an idea of what worked and what didn't, or what new stuff you'd like to try.

And specifically, in university culture, which still sees consent as a minor inconvenience.  Kids are rules-lawyering little shiats, and will whine incessantly if you make them dal with ambiguity.  "Are you fine with this button?" seems excessive, but not when you consider it is aimed at students who will whine that it isn't fair that you followed your syllabus religiously.  These things aren't aimed at normal people with a normal sense of boundaries, but college-age kids who think hentai is the low end of consent.

And to be clear, if she wants it, you will know - and if you don't know, maybe you stop.  And anyone who walks away because you are too polite is someone you need to run away from anyway.


Tentacles don't ask and they don't care what you like..
 
2021-03-05 10:17:41 AM  

FLMountainMan: It must be exhausting trying to follow all these neoreligious rituals.

If you're not sure if a woman wants to have sex with you, don't have sex with her.  The worst thing that can happen is you'll have to masturbate that night.


I always assumed this was common sense.

Am I wrong?
 
2021-03-05 10:18:03 AM  

RodneyToady: I feel like so much of the "consent culture" stuff is intended to target college-aged people, and people having their first couple of sexual experiences with a new partner.  If you're not in those categories, things don't need to be that formal... just talk to one another and respect the boundaries that are set.  Talk before, and talk during.  And ideally talk after, so if there's a "next time" you'll have an idea of what worked and what didn't, or what new stuff you'd like to try.


Supplementing this, I think it's the result of a lack of meaningful sex education in American society and schools. Because most of it is either discussed on an anatomical level, isn't discussed at all, or is basically discussed through the lens of abstinence and slut-shaming, "consent culture" is a dumbed down concept that is easily explained to the lowest common denominator and also helps set bright line standards regarding what constitutes rape, sexual assault, and other non-consensual acts.  As you said, in reality, young adults have not been given a meaningful education or vocabulary when it comes to sexual experiences, and, on top of that, those young adults often encounter other young adults who are similarly lacking.  So, as a result, we create a bright line rule that is easily understood and applied.
 
2021-03-05 10:18:17 AM  
Somewhere there is a happy medium between notarized step-by-step procedures and chloroform.
 
2021-03-05 10:18:18 AM  
Stupidity like this undermines the real issues that exist.
 
2021-03-05 10:18:19 AM  
I swear that the people that come up with this shiat are the ones that never get laid anyways.

We need to stop promoting this level of mental illness as "normal" and a valid argument.
 
2021-03-05 10:18:29 AM  

RodneyToady: You can start wanting something, and then get tired of it and ask to stop.  Or you can ask for something that you didn't think you wanted at the beginning.  Or you can set parameters, and then change the parameters during.  For example, "You can grope my breasts, but not too hard" can be followed up with "You can go harder than that."  Or, "Do me from behind" can become "Let's switch positions."


Yep.

There have been times where my wife wasn't feeling it, but was willing to try. A bit of foreplay, then the question. Want to keep going?

So far she's never said no when we get to that point. However, I've made it clear- she always can. If she says no, it's over right there, hard stop.
 
2021-03-05 10:18:47 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-05 10:18:52 AM  

aungen: I had a girlfriend who would ask me to force her.  Then she'd yell no and stop, and my instinct was to always stop, and she'd get mad and hit me and tell me to stop ruining it and be rough.

We didn't last long.  But I'm fairly sure that scarred me for life.  The second person I dated like that, I just had to end it pretty quickly.  Too confusing, and I'm not your guy.  But it has made me skeptical of some of these articles.  Women are more complicated than 'no means no,' but I prefer the safety of dating someone where 'no means no,' actually applies, and there's no confusion.


All you needed was a safe word.
 
2021-03-05 10:19:23 AM  
*puts down newspaper after reading* I should invest in a real doll.
 
2021-03-05 10:19:56 AM  

leeksfromchichis: the_rhino: The comments on the article are bonkers.

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 300x226]

You know who else was Bonkers?


I forgot all about that cartoon.

Thanks for reminding me of my childhood.
 
2021-03-05 10:21:11 AM  

big pig peaches: Is the swirl supposed to be clockwise or counter clock wise?


Counter, but on the z axis
 
2021-03-05 10:21:25 AM  

big pig peaches: aungen: I had a girlfriend who would ask me to force her.  Then she'd yell no and stop, and my instinct was to always stop, and she'd get mad and hit me and tell me to stop ruining it and be rough.

We didn't last long.  But I'm fairly sure that scarred me for life.  The second person I dated like that, I just had to end it pretty quickly.  Too confusing, and I'm not your guy.  But it has made me skeptical of some of these articles.  Women are more complicated than 'no means no,' but I prefer the safety of dating someone where 'no means no,' actually applies, and there's no confusion.

All you needed was a safe word.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-05 10:21:47 AM  

GardenWeasel: 1st the NYTimes "lies are rape" column today, then this.... There is a narrative being constructed.


Yeah it's a big conspiracy being coordinated by Big Consent.

Listen to yourself.
 
2021-03-05 10:22:18 AM  

fiddlehead: Rush was.

[Fark user image image 529x506]

Bye, Rush!


"Here come the rape police."
 
2021-03-05 10:22:32 AM  

FLMountainMan: It must be exhausting trying to follow all these neoreligious rituals.

If you're not sure if a woman wants to have sex with you, don't have sex with her.  The worst thing that can happen is you'll have to masturbate that night.


Have to? How about GET to?
 
2021-03-05 10:22:52 AM  

Mrtraveler01: leeksfromchichis: the_rhino: The comments on the article are bonkers.

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 300x226]

You know who else was Bonkers?

I forgot all about that cartoon.

Thanks for reminding me of my childhood.


I don't think I've heard the word since the last time I saw the show, except for those occasions when the theme gets stuck in my head
 
2021-03-05 10:23:20 AM  
Send lawyers, guns and condoms...
 
2021-03-05 10:23:32 AM  

big pig peaches: aungen: I had a girlfriend who would ask me to force her.  Then she'd yell no and stop, and my instinct was to always stop, and she'd get mad and hit me and tell me to stop ruining it and be rough.

We didn't last long.  But I'm fairly sure that scarred me for life.  The second person I dated like that, I just had to end it pretty quickly.  Too confusing, and I'm not your guy.  But it has made me skeptical of some of these articles.  Women are more complicated than 'no means no,' but I prefer the safety of dating someone where 'no means no,' actually applies, and there's no confusion.

All you needed was a safe word.


I agree, historically.

In today's modern society, would a safe word argument hold up in court? I'm certain it wouldn't prevent someone from being tossed out of a university.

"He raped me! I said no. He wouldn't stop. I kept telling him stop by he wouldn't"

'umm, she wanted it? If she would have said the safe word I would have stopped'

I wonder if we will ever hit the point of encouraging group sex as an answer to the consent issues we seem to have. Then you'd have witnesses.
 
2021-03-05 10:24:30 AM  

aungen: I had a girlfriend who would ask me to force her.  Then she'd yell no and stop, and my instinct was to always stop, and she'd get mad and hit me and tell me to stop ruining it and be rough.

We didn't last long.  But I'm fairly sure that scarred me for life.  The second person I dated like that, I just had to end it pretty quickly.  Too confusing, and I'm not your guy.  But it has made me skeptical of some of these articles.  Women are more complicated than 'no means no,' but I prefer the safety of dating someone where 'no means no,' actually applies, and there's no confusion.


Safe words are kind of critical to this sort of play.
 
2021-03-05 10:25:14 AM  

Mrtraveler01: FLMountainMan: It must be exhausting trying to follow all these neoreligious rituals.

If you're not sure if a woman wants to have sex with you, don't have sex with her.  The worst thing that can happen is you'll have to masturbate that night.

I always assumed this was common sense.

Am I wrong?


In US culture sex is still largely viewed as an achievement that men must obtain from women, rather than something that should be mutually pursued and enjoyed.
 
2021-03-05 10:26:08 AM  

leeksfromchichis: the_rhino: The comments on the article are bonkers.

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 300x226]

You know who else was Bonkers?


Welp, time to track that down and add it to my media server!  Forgot all about Bonkers!
 
2021-03-05 10:26:47 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
: We're less than 12 persecs away from a man jerking  being considered rape
 
2021-03-05 10:27:26 AM  

Thrakkorzog: Next thing I know I will have to have written permission from my hand to masturbate


I think its the hand that needs to obtain consent from the penis you fu*king rapist.
 
2021-03-05 10:28:42 AM  

Dick Gozinya: RodneyToady:

I feel like so much of the "consent culture" stuff is intended to target college-aged people, and people having their first couple of sexual experiences with a new partner.  I

I wonder why that would be? Perhaps its because most college-aged people today spent the last 15+ years of their lives anonymously shiatposting on the internet and living their lives and friendshipts on social media instead of actually going out and learning how to properly socialize with other human beings in a face-to-face setting. So, now that they find themselves in that setting, they're basically toddlers again and have no farking idea how to actually act towards another person that is in front of them instead of behind a screen.

/adjusts onion on belt
//yells at cloud
///watching Matlock now


Yeah because rape was soooooo less prevalent before the internet.
 
2021-03-05 10:29:32 AM  

aungen: I had a girlfriend who would ask me to force her.  Then she'd yell no and stop, and my instinct was to always stop, and she'd get mad and hit me and tell me to stop ruining it and be rough.

We didn't last long.  But I'm fairly sure that scarred me for life.  The second person I dated like that, I just had to end it pretty quickly.  Too confusing, and I'm not your guy.  But it has made me skeptical of some of these articles.  Women are more complicated than 'no means no,' but I prefer the safety of dating someone where 'no means no,' actually applies, and there's no confusion.


It's not complicated. You just aren't into rape kink.
 
2021-03-05 10:31:18 AM  

FLMountainMan: It must be exhausting trying to follow all these neoreligious rituals.

If you're not sure if a woman wants to have sex with you, don't have sex with her.  The worst thing that can happen is you'll have to masturbate that night.


Actually, the worst thing that can happen to you is:

-she tells she wants to
-you have sex
-sometime over the next few days she sees one of your many vile, disgusting Fark posts about how felons don't deserve the right to vote and decides to retroactively retract her consent
-Two months later you're a convicted rapist arguing for felons' rights to vote on Fark
 
2021-03-05 10:31:27 AM  

FLMountainMan: It must be exhausting trying to follow all these neoreligious rituals.

If you're not sure if a woman wants to have sex with you, don't have sex with her.  The worst thing that can happen is you'll have to masturbate that night.


Not true.  There's a wide range of consequences from the urge to start dating robots and exhibiting even more asocial behaviors (just ask the Space Pope) to possibly becoming an incel. Not everyone will adjust well.
 
2021-03-05 10:32:08 AM  

fiddlehead: In US culture sex is still largely viewed as an achievement that men must obtain from women, rather than something that should be mutually pursued and enjoyed.


You've never left the country, have you?
 
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