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(MSN)   Later this year China will finish its 7500 mile long undersea internet cable spanning from Pakistan to France, linking China with Africa and Europe. But it's only partially owned by Huawei, so we're cool, right?   (msn.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Chinese language, Huawei, Security, United States, MySpace, Facebook, Michael Bloomberg, Coaxial cable  
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266 clicks; posted to STEM » on 05 Mar 2021 at 10:36 AM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-03-05 9:55:29 AM  
7,500 miles? I would think the distance would be longer than that.
 
2021-03-05 10:05:19 AM  
China has been doing a lot of this in recent years, becoming more a member of the international community than the US which was devolving into an isolationist 3rd world country under the last administration.
 
2021-03-05 10:15:47 AM  

oldernell: China has been doing a lot of this in recent years, becoming more a member of the international community than the US which was devolving into an isolationist 3rd world country under the last administration.


It's not that simple. China has an economy built on state driven construction projects. They ran out of projects that made any kind of sense in China and started doing projects abroad. TLDR: The projects abroad somehow managed to make even less sense than the ones in China so they are pulling the plug on those now.
 
2021-03-05 10:19:20 AM  
An old image popped into my head of an alien spaceship sucking water from the earth, only this would be data.
 
2021-03-05 10:23:41 AM  

edmo: An old image popped into my head of an alien spaceship sucking water from the earth, only this would be data.


Oblivion?
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-05 10:42:09 AM  

oldernell: China has been doing a lot of this in recent years, becoming more a member of the international community than the US which was devolving into an isolationist 3rd world country under the last administration.


Yes. A large amount of big, beautiful, smooth highways in Africa.

Each leading to deep water harbors to ease the stripping of the continents raw materials, provided at low cost by corrupt local officials.

Soft Colonialism.
 
2021-03-05 10:43:14 AM  
When a militaristic, single-party state starts rolling out megaprojects with names like "PEACE," everyone else should really consider ramping up their military maintenance programs.
 
2021-03-05 1:32:25 PM  

kdawg7736: 7,500 miles? I would think the distance would be longer than that.


TFA shows it going via the Suez canal.

50 years ago, the U.S. would be doing this.
But we have so many expensive hobbies now, like bailing out broke pension plans with bloated benefits that were created to get Democrats elected; financing ridiculously expensive weapons systems built in many different states, finding ways to borrow and redistribute more money, acting as policeman in the middle east, etc.

It's not like we can have industries to compete with China's.  That would require some focus.
 
2021-03-05 2:02:32 PM  

Animatronik: kdawg7736: 7,500 miles? I would think the distance would be longer than that.

TFA shows it going via the Suez canal.

50 years ago, the U.S. would be doing this.
But we have so many expensive hobbies now, like bailing out broke pension plans with bloated benefits that were created to get Democrats elected; financing ridiculously expensive weapons systems built in many different states, finding ways to borrow and redistribute more money, acting as policeman in the middle east, etc.

It's not like we can have industries to compete with China's.  That would require some focus.


You understand that undersea cables are overwhelmingly laid by telecom /teledata companies and consortia, that American firms (like Google) are still global leaders as far as length and capacity, and that we're constantly laying new cables... right?
 
2021-03-05 3:59:55 PM  
Today two of my ESL students in China told me they both have a teacher in their school from Africa who teaches a main subject (one teaches English, the other teaches art and music) and also teaches about African countries and languages.
 
2021-03-05 6:21:03 PM  

b2theory: oldernell: China has been doing a lot of this in recent years, becoming more a member of the international community than the US which was devolving into an isolationist 3rd world country under the last administration.

It's not that simple. China has an economy built on state driven construction projects. They ran out of projects that made any kind of sense in China and started doing projects abroad. TLDR: The projects abroad somehow managed to make even less sense than the ones in China so they are pulling the plug on those now.


It makes a lot of sense. China uses their construction expertise and loan programs to build diplomatic and economic ties with countries that the west ignores or constantly sanctions. In the short term, that means every time the UN votes, it's easier for some declaration or program to be confirmed or denied according to China's wishes. In the long term, it forms the backbone of China's continued economic growth in the middle and upper classes and in military proficiency.

On the other hand, Americans find it morally unacceptable to do basic things to stop the crumbling of the middle class or help uplift those in the lowest rungs of society. So in that sense, yeah the idea of investing in your countries future does make no sense at all.
 
2021-03-05 6:39:32 PM  

Heliodorus: b2theory: oldernell: China has been doing a lot of this in recent years, becoming more a member of the international community than the US which was devolving into an isolationist 3rd world country under the last administration.

It's not that simple. China has an economy built on state driven construction projects. They ran out of projects that made any kind of sense in China and started doing projects abroad. TLDR: The projects abroad somehow managed to make even less sense than the ones in China so they are pulling the plug on those now.

It makes a lot of sense. China uses their construction expertise and loan programs to build diplomatic and economic ties with countries that the west ignores or constantly sanctions. In the short term, that means every time the UN votes, it's easier for some declaration or program to be confirmed or denied according to China's wishes. In the long term, it forms the backbone of China's continued economic growth in the middle and upper classes and in military proficiency.

On the other hand, Americans find it morally unacceptable to do basic things to stop the crumbling of the middle class or help uplift those in the lowest rungs of society. So in that sense, yeah the idea of investing in your countries future does make no sense at all.


Or....... China just wrote several hundred  billion dollars worth of loans that the developing nations are never going to be able to pay back and China probably cannot afford to lose.

It is a form of bigotry and ignorance  to believe that everything China does is somehow enlightened and everything the US does is selfish and ignorant.
 
2021-03-05 8:59:32 PM  

b2theory: Heliodorus: b2theory: oldernell: China has been doing a lot of this in recent years, becoming more a member of the international community than the US which was devolving into an isolationist 3rd world country under the last administration.

It's not that simple. China has an economy built on state driven construction projects. They ran out of projects that made any kind of sense in China and started doing projects abroad. TLDR: The projects abroad somehow managed to make even less sense than the ones in China so they are pulling the plug on those now.

It makes a lot of sense. China uses their construction expertise and loan programs to build diplomatic and economic ties with countries that the west ignores or constantly sanctions. In the short term, that means every time the UN votes, it's easier for some declaration or program to be confirmed or denied according to China's wishes. In the long term, it forms the backbone of China's continued economic growth in the middle and upper classes and in military proficiency.

On the other hand, Americans find it morally unacceptable to do basic things to stop the crumbling of the middle class or help uplift those in the lowest rungs of society. So in that sense, yeah the idea of investing in your countries future does make no sense at all.

Or....... China just wrote several hundred  billion dollars worth of loans that the developing nations are never going to be able to pay back and China probably cannot afford to lose.

It is a form of bigotry and ignorance  to believe that everything China does is somehow enlightened and everything the US does is selfish and ignorant.


They wrote those loans knowing the countries can't possibly pay them back through normal payments. It was designed to be a debt-trap. Sri Lanka didn't give China a 99 year lease on the brand new port and surrounding area that China just built in the country because it was a good deal for Sri Lanka. They had no other choice. Now China has the port they wanted to protect its shipping lanes to Europe and Africa and to threaten India every time one of those countries leaders starts a conflict for a popularity boost.

The pandemic downturn is obviously an issue that needs to be resolved, but that can be done by debit restructuring. Which they have already started doing.
 
2021-03-05 9:23:05 PM  

Heliodorus: b2theory: Heliodorus: b2theory: oldernell: China has been doing a lot of this in recent years, becoming more a member of the international community than the US which was devolving into an isolationist 3rd world country under the last administration.

It's not that simple. China has an economy built on state driven construction projects. They ran out of projects that made any kind of sense in China and started doing projects abroad. TLDR: The projects abroad somehow managed to make even less sense than the ones in China so they are pulling the plug on those now.

It makes a lot of sense. China uses their construction expertise and loan programs to build diplomatic and economic ties with countries that the west ignores or constantly sanctions. In the short term, that means every time the UN votes, it's easier for some declaration or program to be confirmed or denied according to China's wishes. In the long term, it forms the backbone of China's continued economic growth in the middle and upper classes and in military proficiency.

On the other hand, Americans find it morally unacceptable to do basic things to stop the crumbling of the middle class or help uplift those in the lowest rungs of society. So in that sense, yeah the idea of investing in your countries future does make no sense at all.

Or....... China just wrote several hundred  billion dollars worth of loans that the developing nations are never going to be able to pay back and China probably cannot afford to lose.

It is a form of bigotry and ignorance  to believe that everything China does is somehow enlightened and everything the US does is selfish and ignorant.

They wrote those loans knowing the countries can't possibly pay them back through normal payments. It was designed to be a debt-trap. Sri Lanka didn't give China a 99 year lease on the brand new port and surrounding area that China just built in the country because it was a good deal for Sri Lanka. They had no other choice. Now China has the port they wanted to protect its shipping lanes to Europe and Africa and to threaten India every time one of those countries leaders starts a conflict for a popularity boost.

The pandemic downturn is obviously an issue that needs to be resolved, but that can be done by debit restructuring. Which they have already started doing.


Here is the problem with China's position and your charitable guess as to their strategic game plan. While the geopolitical play might be good, that money didn't come from some goodwill fund that they setup. Those are largely deposits from China's citizens at state owned banks. China is a deeply indebted nation. By most estimates their total debt exposure probably exceeds the US as a percent of their economy. That likely isn't money they can afford to restructure.
 
2021-03-06 3:00:39 AM  
b2theory:


Here is the problem with China's position and your charitable guess as to their strategic game plan. While the geopolitical play might be good, that money didn't come from some goodwill fund that they setup. Those are largely deposits from China's citizens at state owned banks. China is a deeply indebted nation. By most estimates their total debt exposure probably exceeds the US as a percent of their economy. That likely isn't money they can afford to restructure.

Unless there has been large changes in the last 12 months, most of that debt is in state controlled companies, and they have large savings with very stringent capital controls. So it's unlikely that money will go anywhere even during a panic.

As much as I dislike the current government of China, libraries could be filled with the decades of books and reports from people that forecasted the collapse of the CCP due to a perceived intractable vulnerability in the Chinese domestic and foreign policy. Xi has already signaled that growth is going to be around 5-6% instead of 8-10% which means debt reduction is probably one of the new policies going forward.
 
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