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(Buzzfeed News)   Entire (poor) neighborhoods were destroyed to build freeways that fueled urban and suburban growth. A Zillow glitch allows you to see where those houses used to stand. Progress has a cost, and that fee should never be forgotten   (buzzfeednews.com) divider line
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5025 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Mar 2021 at 5:36 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-03-04 5:09:26 PM  
TL/DR: Robert Moses was a colossal, flaming asshole.
 
2021-03-04 5:13:13 PM  
They were not just poor, they oftentimes were minority (and, suspiciously often, the centers of non-white economies).
 
2021-03-04 5:19:16 PM  
i0.wp.comView Full Size


RIP
 
2021-03-04 5:20:14 PM  
East of Seattle there is a freeway called I-405 with a notoriously winding section known as the Renton S Curves. The original plan for that freeway instead had straight section instead of those curves but the property which needed to be acquired for that plan could not be obtained because of one wealthy property owner who refused to sell and could afford lawyers to fight that plan. Several people die on that section of highway every year as it can be quite dangerous for those who do not pay close attention when passing through.
 
2021-03-04 5:38:15 PM  
...except when we're talking about covid-19.
 
2021-03-04 5:40:28 PM  
So what, the people in power made money.
 
2021-03-04 5:43:20 PM  
Those are likely Assessor's Parcel Numbers (APNs) of houses that used to exist.
 
2021-03-04 5:43:49 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size



Maybe they're still there, below, and sell delicious ratburgers.
 
2021-03-04 5:44:06 PM  
I see the racism and the unspeakable bastardry of Robert Moses have been covered already.
 
2021-03-04 5:45:11 PM  
That's not really a glitch.  Zillow apparently shows all property lines, even when several properties have been combined under a same owner (the government).  There is probably still a separate legal record for each property, somewhere.
 
2021-03-04 5:45:43 PM  
So the zillow data includes all the parcels assembled by purchase or eminent domain.  Isn't that how real estate data works?  Until the parcels are changed legally, they remain in book and maps.
 
2021-03-04 5:47:07 PM  
Man, if you think that's bad, you should see how many people were farked over by the WPA projects of the FDR New Deal. That TVA was a pretty mean biatch.
 
2021-03-04 5:47:08 PM  
Running interstates through the middle of urban centers was a colossal mistake. They should have bypassed downtowns the way they bypass small towns.
 
2021-03-04 5:47:44 PM  

Znuh: TL/DR: Robert Moses was a colossal, flaming asshole.


Yes. Extra history really summed up how bad it was. TL/DW: Moses considered any black neighborhoods, no matter how wealthy, a blight. He happily built highways through them to serve white neighborhoods and white suburbs. This destroyed whole communities and created the poor, blighted, polluted ghettos we know today. Robert Moses was a grade-A jackass

Interstate Displacement - The Legacy of Robert Moses - Extra History
Youtube LmC5T-2d6Xw
 
2021-03-04 5:48:28 PM  

Myrdinn: They were not just poor, they oftentimes were minority (and, suspiciously often, the centers of non-white economies).


Yup. The entire west side of Cincinnati, a predominantly Jewish area, was bulldozed to build the massive I-71/I-75/US-50 interchange.
 
2021-03-04 5:48:39 PM  

Wanderlusting: Man, if you think that's bad, you should see how many people were farked over by the WPA projects of the FDR New Deal. That TVA was a pretty mean biatch.


Dammit ... forgot the YouTube link, lol.

Rene Russo
Youtube X3toL1Twus4
 
2021-03-04 5:48:52 PM  
Wanted for questioning...

olimould.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
 
2021-03-04 5:51:09 PM  
Racism Progress has a cost

Just wanted to fix that.
 
2021-03-04 5:55:45 PM  

max_pooper: Running interstates through the middle of urban centers was a colossal mistake. They should have bypassed downtowns the way they bypass small towns.


Yes, because that has been such a boom for small towns.  Everything along historic Route 66 is just A1mazing now.

My grandparents had to move when I-70 was built in St. Louis.
 
2021-03-04 5:57:40 PM  
St. Paul MN- Rondo I-94
 
2021-03-04 5:58:02 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: max_pooper: Running interstates through the middle of urban centers was a colossal mistake. They should have bypassed downtowns the way they bypass small towns.

Yes, because that has been such a boom for small towns.  Everything along historic Route 66 is just A1mazing now.


I've seen that movie. Things work out fine at the end.
 
2021-03-04 5:58:20 PM  

BigNumber12: [Fark user image 433x471]


Maybe they're still there, below, and sell delicious ratburgers.


media-amazon.comView Full Size
 
2021-03-04 5:58:23 PM  
Made me think of Palm Springs, California and the burning out of minority residents in Section 14.
 
2021-03-04 5:59:45 PM  

max_pooper: Running interstates through the middle of urban centers was a colossal mistake. They should have bypassed downtowns the way they bypass small towns.


Yeah, Tucson is laid out like that and it sucks. You get off of the freeway only to be stuck in traffic that doesn't move because city streets aren't freeways.
 
2021-03-04 6:00:48 PM  
 
2021-03-04 6:01:20 PM  

Geotpf: That's not really a glitch.  Zillow apparently shows all property lines, even when several properties have been combined under a same owner (the government).  There is probably still a separate legal record for each property, somewhere.


Them having the data is likely not a glitch, but a site built around selling real estate displaying the data for lots that are now interstates sounds kinda glitchy to me.
 
2021-03-04 6:03:10 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: max_pooper: Running interstates through the middle of urban centers was a colossal mistake. They should have bypassed downtowns the way they bypass small towns.

Yes, because that has been such a boom for small towns.  Everything along historic Route 66 is just A1mazing now.

My grandparents had to move when I-70 was built in St. Louis.


Quite a few small towns along Route 66 in New Mexico died when I-40 was built, but a lot of that had to do with Route 66 following the railroads, and the railroads scaled back their operations when they switched from steam to diesel.  Which happened when they started work on I-40.  Sheer coincidence, but people today might place the blame on the interstate when it was entirely on the railroad equivalent of the buggy whip being replaced.  Railroad towns with repair crews and water towers every 20 miles were replaced with a few guys in a pickup at fueling stations every 150 miles.
 
2021-03-04 6:03:37 PM  
o/~

"Our house... In the middle of our street.
Our house... That was where we used to sleep!"

o/~
 
2021-03-04 6:05:40 PM  

UndeadPoetsSociety: I see the racism and the unspeakable bastardry of Robert Moses have been covered already.


It can never be covered fully or accurately enough. Although Robert Caro's excellent The Power Broker makes a pretty solid attempt. Cars first, parks next, (white) people third, everyone else can suck hind tit, power über alles.

Sound familiar? It farking well should: Trumpy wanted to be Robert Moses.
 
2021-03-04 6:06:05 PM  
Seattle can't do anything right - Interstate 90 went through Mercer Island (some of the most expensive property in the state). They made up for it by going through poor areas (Martin Luther King, Empire way, airport way).

Highway 520 used to stop in the middle of Bellevue - then it got extended through some really nice neighborhoods. Sadly, the hangout place for underage beer drinkers (80 acres) is now Microsoft headquarters. WTF people.
 
2021-03-04 6:06:54 PM  

Geotpf: That's not really a glitch.  Zillow apparently shows all property lines, even when several properties have been combined under a same owner (the government).  There is probably still a separate legal record for each property, somewhere.


Many of those property divisions ("plats") were laid down in cities a century or more ago. And holy carp are they wordy.

"Sub-lot six (6) of lot three (3), in block sixty-two (62) in the Canal Trustees' New Subdivision of blocks in the northwest quarter of section twenty-one (21), township thirty-nine (39) north, range fourteen (14) east of the Third Principal Meridian, situated in the City of Chicago, County of Cook and State of Illinois."

That was laid out at least before 1901 and is still valid today.
 
2021-03-04 6:07:09 PM  

Kriggerel: o/~

"Our house... In the middle of our street.
Our house... That was where we used to sleep!"

o/~


Our House
Youtube k55FYtqtXXU
 
2021-03-04 6:07:15 PM  
The Dam Ryan did make a clear line of neighborhoods in Chicago for sure. It is still an adventure drive for people not used to expressways or think speed limits have any meaning on some roads.
 
2021-03-04 6:07:58 PM  
In addition to this, another really fascinating thing for me is seeing where railroads used to run.  Maps like these tend to show long, unbroken strips of land that were the right-of-way for railroads, even if they've long since been built over
 
2021-03-04 6:08:38 PM  

eurotrader: The Dam Ryan


Typo or not, you're right either way.
 
2021-03-04 6:08:47 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: Kriggerel: o/~

"Our house... In the middle of our street.
Our house... That was where we used to sleep!"

o/~

[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/k55FYtqt​XXU?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsap​i=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&​widgetid=1]


Wow... The creep factor of that musical Droste Effect sort of reminds me of "Too Many Cooks". :P
 
2021-03-04 6:09:56 PM  
I'm probably just a bad person, but I don't see the problem here at all...

We need roads. Infrastructure is important. And sometimes it makes sense to add roads after stuff is built up.

There isn't a lot of unowned land. Eminent domain means taking land against the will of the owner and throwing some amount of money at them.

Doesn't it make sense to build the roads for a lower price?

If you can buy and tear down a run down house for $50k, isn't that better than tearing down a $50 million skyscraper?
 
2021-03-04 6:12:53 PM  

rudemix: Made me think of Palm Springs, California and the burning out of minority residents in Section 14.


That was interesting to read about (Google: section 14 Palm Springs).  Never knew about that beyond a general sense that parts of Palm Springs are on Indian land with 99 year leases (but never how that came about), and I live not too far away in Riverside.

Interestingly, on specific topic of this thread, Interstate 10 runs several miles to the north of Palm Springs, especially when it was built.  I suspect little to no displacement was required to build this section.  Even today, development hasn't really reached the freeway in Palm Springs itself for the most part (although it does go through adjacent cities to the east and right by the an Indian reservation which has a large casino (tallest building in Riverside County) and outlet mall to the west).

/and, of course, that whole area is covered in wind power plants
 
2021-03-04 6:15:02 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I'm probably just a bad person, but I don't see the problem here at all...

We need roads. Infrastructure is important. And sometimes it makes sense to add roads after stuff is built up.

There isn't a lot of unowned land. Eminent domain means taking land against the will of the owner and throwing some amount of money at them.

Doesn't it make sense to build the roads for a lower price?

If you can buy and tear down a run down house for $50k, isn't that better than tearing down a $50 million skyscraper?


They went out of their way to bulldoze wealthy minority communities, too. And yes, "but the economic implications..." does make you a bad person.
 
2021-03-04 6:15:14 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I'm probably just a bad person, but I don't see the problem here at all...

We need roads. Infrastructure is important. And sometimes it makes sense to add roads after stuff is built up.

There isn't a lot of unowned land. Eminent domain means taking land against the will of the owner and throwing some amount of money at them.

Doesn't it make sense to build the roads for a lower price?

If you can buy and tear down a run down house for $50k, isn't that better than tearing down a $50 million skyscraper?


Sure, but there was definite targeting of minority neighborhoods to bulldoze, especially early on.
 
2021-03-04 6:17:08 PM  

NM Volunteer: Quite a few small towns along Route 66 in New Mexico died when I-40 was built, but a lot of that had to do with Route 66 following the railroads, and the railroads scaled back their operations when they switched from steam to diesel.  Which happened when they started work on I-40.  Sheer coincidence, but people today might place the blame on the interstate when it was entirely on the railroad equivalent of the buggy whip being replaced.  Railroad towns with repair crews and water towers every 20 miles were replaced with a few guys in a pickup at fueling stations every 150 miles.


The grimmest town I've passed through:

i.pinimg.comView Full Size

lh3.googleusercontent.comView Full Size

lh3.googleusercontent.comView Full Size

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size


Route 60, not 66, but a former railroad town.
 
2021-03-04 6:22:08 PM  

BigNumber12: [Fark user image image 433x471]


Maybe they're still there, below, and sell delicious ratburgers.


I actually dig the spaces under trains and highways in a well planned city.  They make cool commercial districts, but wouldn't wanna live there.
 
2021-03-04 6:22:31 PM  

Geotpf: That's not really a glitch.  Zillow apparently shows all property lines, even when several properties have been combined under a same owner (the government).  There is probably still a separate legal record for each property, somewhere.


Yeah. Usually zoning and planning departments consolidate those parcels into big chonky right of way parcels (if nothing else so they stop trying to collect property tax on them), but sometimes they get lazy.
 
2021-03-04 6:26:19 PM  

Wanderlusting: Man, if you think that's bad, you should see how many people were farked over by the WPA projects of the FDR New Deal. That TVA was a pretty mean biatch.


Look up the history of military bases around the country.
 
2021-03-04 6:27:26 PM  

leeksfromchichis: BigNumber12: [Fark user image image 433x471]


Maybe they're still there, below, and sell delicious ratburgers.

I actually dig the spaces under trains and highways in a well planned city.  They make cool commercial districts, but wouldn't wanna live there.


I think that sort of space is underused.  It would be neat to see more buildings with a freeway directly on top of it (or through it).  Usually, if a road is elevated, the ground below is unused, or maybe is a public parking lot.
 
2021-03-04 6:32:08 PM  

ImpendingCynic: Geotpf: That's not really a glitch.  Zillow apparently shows all property lines, even when several properties have been combined under a same owner (the government).  There is probably still a separate legal record for each property, somewhere.

Many of those property divisions ("plats") were laid down in cities a century or more ago. And holy carp are they wordy.

"Sub-lot six (6) of lot three (3), in block sixty-two (62) in the Canal Trustees' New Subdivision of blocks in the northwest quarter of section twenty-one (21), township thirty-nine (39) north, range fourteen (14) east of the Third Principal Meridian, situated in the City of Chicago, County of Cook and State of Illinois."

That was laid out at least before 1901 and is still valid today.


That one doesn't even count the number of feet from the centerline of a road that shifted 3 feet to the north 45 years ago
 
2021-03-04 6:33:41 PM  
Back in my undergrad we used Sanborn fire insurance maps like this, my alma mater was built specifically to eliminate a mostly-Black neighborhood. The city bypassed it when putting in utilities decades before and eventually the state government got sick of seeing the resulting blight and arranged for a college campus to be put there. Our department would find features in the parking lots (you could see where outhouses were because the asphalt would slump) and conduct archaeology field school right there on campus.

Our campus was administered by a university 90 minutes away, they hated how our department continually shone a light on the racism and classism endemic in the system.

One example, everyone displaced by the campus was guaranteed free tuition in the future at that campus. They also promised a focus on hiring minority faculty and academic programs that focused on the histories and cultures (there were multiple groups actually displaced) of those who lived there. None of which the university ever intended to honor.

Thirty years later I was attending and things were coming to a head. Most of the focus was the School of Liberal Arts, which was the original campus built there. The Medical School was already there, built around the first hospital in the city.

Turns out there are actually not a lot of minorities who are interested in teaching liberal arts and they are in high demand. The administration managed to hire three instructors from Kenya and their official welcoming to the university was... memorable. They were introduced by the Chancellor as a triumph for the university, the fulfillment of a promise to create a more focused African American studies program, taught by those whose own ancestry was rooted in the slave experience.

It was about on par with how every initiative there went. They tried so hard, and never got a thing right. It was like nobody outside our department recognized anything outside of that moment. They never looked out across the parking lots and recognized that every place water pooled after a rainstorm marked the place where a family lived, where children grew up and had hopes and dreams, and then were forced out and shoved into other poor neighborhoods with resulting higher density and worse economic outlooks and the people they once were interdependent on scattered. And now they were back, in their 50s and 60s trying to make the university make good on promises made in the '70s. And so were there less-restrained children and grandchildren.

When I see ghost neighborhoods on Zillow, all of it comes rushing back to me. My dad, who rode busses across the South doing sit-ins and marches lived in that city and never once did he think that segregation was a thing there. He was wrong, of course, he argued against it until I showed him copies of newspaper articles from that era talking about things like the closing of the local amusement park rather than integrating. "But there were Black people there! I remember it clearly!" Well yeah, as employees. Not as attendees.

We are so quick to put these things behind us. Tear down the buildings and start a new era! Onward into the future!" But people don't live in the future. They live in the past, in their own past, their own lived experiences.

Those little white boxes, they remain the heart of people still living today. Those interstates and urban campuses are for us, who never lived there. I don't agree against using and enjoying them, they are facts of life. But remember and honor those who called them home. Recognize them. Include them. There is no way of erasing the past, but ignoring what those living today went through in the name of modernity and progress is the very essence of soulless elitism that poisons our society for generations until recognition and inclusion is preferred.
 
2021-03-04 6:34:22 PM  
Goddammit, proffered not preferred you stupid phone
 
2021-03-04 6:36:38 PM  

Weng: ImpendingCynic: Geotpf: That's not really a glitch.  Zillow apparently shows all property lines, even when several properties have been combined under a same owner (the government).  There is probably still a separate legal record for each property, somewhere.

Many of those property divisions ("plats") were laid down in cities a century or more ago. And holy carp are they wordy.

"Sub-lot six (6) of lot three (3), in block sixty-two (62) in the Canal Trustees' New Subdivision of blocks in the northwest quarter of section twenty-one (21), township thirty-nine (39) north, range fourteen (14) east of the Third Principal Meridian, situated in the City of Chicago, County of Cook and State of Illinois."

That was laid out at least before 1901 and is still valid today.

That one doesn't even count the number of feet from the centerline of a road that shifted 3 feet to the north 45 years ago


Or says something like "50 yards due south from the large apple tree..." (a tree that hasn't been there for 100 years.
 
2021-03-04 6:38:09 PM  
The goverment should do something to improve the community.

Farkers later.....

How dare they do something to improve the community!!!!!
 
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