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(Digital Spy)   Rian Johnson didn't pay attention to The Rise of Skywalker   (digitalspy.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, Star Wars, Film, Luke Skywalker, Last Jedi director Rian Johnson, Last Jedi, Narrative, Sequel, E-mail  
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1610 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 04 Mar 2021 at 6:03 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-03-04 2:50:54 AM  
Oh boy, another Rise of the Skywalker article.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-04 7:13:22 AM  
The sequel trilogy was about two writer/directors trying to fark each other over by negating everything in the other one's movies.
 
2021-03-04 7:14:03 AM  
Somehow, Rise of Skywalker articles have returned...
 
2021-03-04 7:15:46 AM  
I'm of two minds on TLJ.  I consider it the best film of the sequel trilogy but it's also the film that completely farked up any chance of a coherent narrative for the trilogy as a whole.
 
2021-03-04 7:20:36 AM  
The Clickbait Awakens
The Last Clickbait
The Rise of the Clickbait.
 
2021-03-04 7:23:56 AM  

Snapper Carr: I'm of two minds on TLJ.  I consider it the best film of the sequel trilogy but it's also the film that completely farked up any chance of a coherent narrative for the trilogy as a whole.


For me it's almost two films. Rey's plotline makes for a good Star Wars film. The resistance half is a steaming pile of a movie.
 
2021-03-04 7:39:22 AM  

Copperbelly watersnake: Snapper Carr: I'm of two minds on TLJ.  I consider it the best film of the sequel trilogy but it's also the film that completely farked up any chance of a coherent narrative for the trilogy as a whole. For me it's almost two films. Rey's plotline makes for a good Star Wars film. The resistance half is a steaming pile of a movie.


It just so purposefully negated everything in The Force Awakens from the opening scene. Say what you want about the prequels at least it had one guy telling one story.
 
2021-03-04 8:05:20 AM  

Mugato: Say what you want about the prequels at least it had one guy telling one story.


no they didn't
 
2021-03-04 8:06:00 AM  

ReaverZ: Mugato: Say what you want about the prequels at least it had one guy telling one story.

no they didn't

sorry, misread. Carry on
 
2021-03-04 8:25:51 AM  
Oh god, not this shiat again.

I still have no idea what you people are talking about.  You... at the end of The Force Awakens, you saw Luke look at Rey with anguish and rage on his face, and then expected The Last Jedi to open with him cradling his old lightsaber lovingly, and that he's actually on a super-secret heroic mission, instead of the reasons that Han related?

Apparently I was the only one who remembered that Star Wars likes to play with your expectations, and completely expected him to reject the saber, knock it out of her hand, toss it off the cliff, or whatever.

img.cinemablend.comView Full Size
 
2021-03-04 8:28:21 AM  
Remember when the Rebellion killed all of the prisoners on the Death Star?
You'd think they'd have opened ALL the cells to give everyone a fighting chance, but, eh (shrug)
 
2021-03-04 8:39:52 AM  

buntz: Remember when the Rebellion killed all of the prisoners on the Death Star?
You'd think they'd have opened ALL the cells to give everyone a fighting chance, but, eh (shrug)


Let's not forget the contractors.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-04 8:48:49 AM  
I'm glad I never paid money to see them in theaters, but I'm also annoyed that I wasted bandwidth torrenting those shiatpiles
 
2021-03-04 9:01:33 AM  

Socrofece: Apparently I was the only one who remembered that Star Wars likes to play with your expectations, and completely expected him to reject the saber, knock it out of her hand, toss it off the cliff, or whatever.


And then he changed his mind in the third film because it had a different writer.
 
2021-03-04 9:18:49 AM  

Socrofece: Oh god, not this shiat again.

I still have no idea what you people are talking about.  You... at the end of The Force Awakens, you saw Luke look at Rey with anguish and rage on his face, and then expected The Last Jedi to open with him cradling his old lightsaber lovingly, and that he's actually on a super-secret heroic mission, instead of the reasons that Han related?

Apparently I was the only one who remembered that Star Wars likes to play with your expectations, and completely expected him to reject the saber, knock it out of her hand, toss it off the cliff, or whatever.

[img.cinemablend.com image 600x300]


I think people would have dealt better with Skywalker becoming a bitter hermit if it hadn't come in addition to the things like the New Republic being wiped out.

The sequel trilogy pretty much rendered every victory and accomplishment in the originals utterly hollow and meaningless in the long run all for the sake of doing some half arsed reboot.
 
2021-03-04 9:23:32 AM  
Its loaded with problems but when we got here, I knew it was gonna be a long haul:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-04 9:28:13 AM  
Did anyone?
 
2021-03-04 9:36:11 AM  
When I was a kid, older people around me seemed to love Star Wars, REALLY love Empire, and think Jedi was a decent flick but a major step down. As an adult, I had pretty much the same experience with 7,8 and 9.

The other thing that I have in common with adults back when Jedi came out is that afterward, we moved on with our lives to find other stuff that we enjoyed rather than circle back to pontificate about the filmmakers' choices.
 
2021-03-04 9:38:54 AM  
The article is saying he wasn't told of Ben Solo's fate before he started writing TLJ, not that he didn't know what happened after watching TRoS.  Learn to read, damn.

Which is weird since Adam Driver has hinted that he knew.  Also he does I'm Colin Treverrow's script, which RJ would have known while filming TLJ.
 
2021-03-04 9:39:59 AM  

YodaTuna: Also he does I'm Colin Treverrow's script, which RJ would have known while filming TLJ.


Sorry, "he does die in Colin Treverrow's script"
 
2021-03-04 9:48:52 AM  
oh, we know.  it is more that apparent that not a single person who could make a story decision was even remotely in communication with anyone else. For that matter they all seem to have, at best, a passing realization that there were SW movies before theirs.  the "plot" of those three movies looks like the cinematic embodiment of a family circus cartoon.

kathleenodowd.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
 
2021-03-04 9:54:00 AM  

Socrofece: Oh god, not this shiat again.

I still have no idea what you people are talking about.  You... at the end of The Force Awakens, you saw Luke look at Rey with anguish and rage on his face, and then expected The Last Jedi to open with him cradling his old lightsaber lovingly, and that he's actually on a super-secret heroic mission, instead of the reasons that Han related?

Apparently I was the only one who remembered that Star Wars likes to play with your expectations, and completely expected him to reject the saber, knock it out of her hand, toss it off the cliff, or whatever.

[img.cinemablend.com image 600x300]


I can handle Luke being a kinda of depressed hermit without much difficulty.  As mentioned, it's already partially set up in TFA.  What bothers me about that scene is that I don't really buy Luke being a dick to Rey and the lightsaber toss feels unnecessary.  It's hard to tell if the film means it for something the audience to laugh at or be saddened by because it's so over the top.  That and the "nobody" stuff basically feels like RJ winking at the camera going "ahhh gotcha... pretty crazy right?" when they both aren't really necessary to the narrative of the film.
 
2021-03-04 9:57:02 AM  

Mugato: Socrofece: Apparently I was the only one who remembered that Star Wars likes to play with your expectations, and completely expected him to reject the saber, knock it out of her hand, toss it off the cliff, or whatever.

And then he changed his mind in the third film because it had a different writer.


But... the whole point of Luke's plot of TLJ is that he was wrong to reject his responsibility as a Jedi.  If you want to complain about the coherency of the films, this ain't it.
 
2021-03-04 10:01:47 AM  
bow before my image editing skillz.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-04 10:03:04 AM  

Mugato: And then he changed his mind in the third film because it had a different writer.


Nah, because he had a change of heart at the end of The Last Jedi and overcame his demons, and this healing process carried over into his afterlife.

Honestly, are you baffled by Rocky III?  I mean, halfway through the movie, Rocky doesn't want to fight Clubber Lang for reasons he finds difficult to explain.  Then he admits that he's afraid and not good enough, but then gets his determination back and then wants to fight Clubber Lang.  Do you just gape at this baffling change in character and wonder what went wrong in the writing process?  He doesn't want to fight and then he does! What madness is this?!
 
2021-03-04 10:05:50 AM  

YodaTuna: Mugato: Socrofece: Apparently I was the only one who remembered that Star Wars likes to play with your expectations, and completely expected him to reject the saber, knock it out of her hand, toss it off the cliff, or whatever.

And then he changed his mind in the third film because it had a different writer.

But... the whole point of Luke's plot of TLJ is that he was wrong to reject his responsibility as a Jedi.  If you want to complain about the coherency of the films, this ain't it.


I was thinking, it's been like decades since the last star wars movie.  That Lucas dude must have knocked out that trilogy and built a neverland ranch or whatever, and gone into hiding.  I think he should have made more movies, the fanfic stuff going around these days is getting out of hand.
 
2021-03-04 10:07:20 AM  

Snapper Carr: that completely farked up any chance of a coherent narrative for the trilogy as a whole.


I wouldn't go that far.  It might have still been clunky but you could build from the themes of TLJ.  The rebuilding of the resistance, the whole Jedi can come from anywhere thing, the elite class playing both sides thing.  But JJ just said nah, and tried to make his half-cocked ideas from TFA work.  The entire trilogy was mishandled, but I put the vast majority of the blame on JJ since he not only helmed two of the films, but had producing duties through the whole thing.

The article confirms what everyone knows the real problem is:

Johnson confirmed that he didn't know that the conflicted villain would meet his maker, saying that it was very much a "full hand-off" between each film, rather than a handover with an overall direction.

It's still astounding to me that a billion dollar franchise was approached this way.  I mean I know these were guaranteed money making machines from the start, but it's not like they skimped on the budgets.
 
2021-03-04 10:08:11 AM  
Skywalker IV: Old Cranky Luke
Youtube ATOsybgXxzM


I like this explanation.  If the OT was about Vietnam Era and the PT was about the Bush Era, this new trilogy is about the disillusionment of '60s idealism in our horrible new world.  If Luke and the Rebellion won a glorious future forever, it wouldn't ring true at all.

Star Wars always reflects something in the modern world.  Always.
 
2021-03-04 10:16:40 AM  

aungen: YodaTuna: Mugato: Socrofece: Apparently I was the only one who remembered that Star Wars likes to play with your expectations, and completely expected him to reject the saber, knock it out of her hand, toss it off the cliff, or whatever.

And then he changed his mind in the third film because it had a different writer.

But... the whole point of Luke's plot of TLJ is that he was wrong to reject his responsibility as a Jedi.  If you want to complain about the coherency of the films, this ain't it.

I was thinking, it's been like decades since the last star wars movie.  That Lucas dude must have knocked out that trilogy and built a neverland ranch or whatever, and gone into hiding.  I think he should have made more movies, the fanfic stuff going around these days is getting out of hand.


You mean like the prequels that everyone loved so much?
 
2021-03-04 10:19:51 AM  

YodaTuna: aungen: YodaTuna: Mugato: Socrofece: Apparently I was the only one who remembered that Star Wars likes to play with your expectations, and completely expected him to reject the saber, knock it out of her hand, toss it off the cliff, or whatever.

And then he changed his mind in the third film because it had a different writer.

But... the whole point of Luke's plot of TLJ is that he was wrong to reject his responsibility as a Jedi.  If you want to complain about the coherency of the films, this ain't it.

I was thinking, it's been like decades since the last star wars movie.  That Lucas dude must have knocked out that trilogy and built a neverland ranch or whatever, and gone into hiding.  I think he should have made more movies, the fanfic stuff going around these days is getting out of hand.

You mean like the prequels that everyone loved so much?


What are you talking about?  That 1990's weird stuff? ... I never got into it.  I kept my old VHS stuff and have enjoyed it from time to time.  But everything after some guy ruined it for Lucas in the 90's has been a pass for me.  I don't enjoy fanfic.
 
2021-03-04 10:27:27 AM  

Socrofece: [YouTube video: Skywalker IV: Old Cranky Luke]

I like this explanation.  If the OT was about Vietnam Era and the PT was about the Bush Era, this new trilogy is about the disillusionment of '60s idealism in our horrible new world.  If Luke and the Rebellion won a glorious future forever, it wouldn't ring true at all.

Star Wars always reflects something in the modern world.  Always.


And there's stage who angle of seeing the younger generation radicalized into fascism by some dude who really likes the color of gold.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-04 10:30:33 AM  
*There's always the angle, I mean.
 
2021-03-04 10:37:04 AM  
It's just incredible to me how they seemed to go into this sequel trilogy without any sort of real plan to see it through.
.
I liked Force Awakens a lot and was expecting a well-thought-out continuation of Rey & Kylo's story through the end.  But nah.  We get a slapdash of writers & directors trying to put their own spin on things, and change the direction of the entire trilogy, until they ruined it.

Then you look at what they're doing over at Marvel, where everything is mapped out years in advance and really creative nerds are in charge.
 
2021-03-04 10:39:59 AM  

Snapper Carr: I'm of two minds on TLJ.  I consider it the best film of the sequel trilogy but it's also the film that completely farked up any chance of a coherent narrative for the trilogy as a whole.


Nah, that was Rise Of Skywalker.
 
2021-03-04 10:45:19 AM  
Man, it's just space cowboys, fighter pilots, laser swords and I regret only that I moved out of a legal marijuana state during the releases.
 
2021-03-04 10:56:13 AM  

MHudson: Snapper Carr: I'm of two minds on TLJ.  I consider it the best film of the sequel trilogy but it's also the film that completely farked up any chance of a coherent narrative for the trilogy as a whole.

Nah, that was Rise Of Skywalker.


Eh... I think the ultimate sin of TLJ was leaving everything too open (RJ even admits he left it as open as possible).  The only thing he sets up is Kylo Ren as Supreme Leader.  He ends the character arcs of Rey, Finn, Poe and Luke all in the second movie.  There are no plot threads for any hero to pick up on and the Big Bad is dead. (Endgame farked up here too by killing Thanos is the first half hour, so they have to bring him back with goofy time travel shenanigans that are more contrived than Palpatine's return)

Contrast all that to Empire Strikes Back where Luke discovers Vader is his father and Han is frozen in carbonite.  These are very obvious things that need to be addressed.  TLJ was the second to last movie in the Skywalker Saga and set up no real interpersonal conflict or stakes for the the final film, meaning that Episode 9, whatever it was, would have had to have been an almost entirely self contained narrative.  Carrie Fisher's death certainly didn't help (but obviously that's no one's fault).
 
2021-03-04 11:01:34 AM  

Socrofece: Mugato: And then he changed his mind in the third film because it had a different writer.

Nah, because he had a change of heart at the end of The Last Jedi and overcame his demons, and this healing process carried over into his afterlife.

Honestly, are you baffled by Rocky III?  I mean, halfway through the movie, Rocky doesn't want to fight Clubber Lang for reasons he finds difficult to explain.  Then he admits that he's afraid and not good enough, but then gets his determination back and then wants to fight Clubber Lang.  Do you just gape at this baffling change in character and wonder what went wrong in the writing process?  He doesn't want to fight and then he does! What madness is this?!


The big difference is that Rocky put that stuff on screen rather than have the viewers assume the character progression for the writers. But then again, we're talking about a movie where Luke mourning the death of a good friend was cut, but there was space for space cow milking.
 
2021-03-04 11:14:52 AM  

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: Snapper Carr: that completely farked up any chance of a coherent narrative for the trilogy as a whole.

I wouldn't go that far.  It might have still been clunky but you could build from the themes of TLJ.  The rebuilding of the resistance, the whole Jedi can come from anywhere thing, the elite class playing both sides thing.  But JJ just said nah, and tried to make his half-cocked ideas from TFA work.  The entire trilogy was mishandled, but I put the vast majority of the blame on JJ since he not only helmed two of the films, but had producing duties through the whole thing.

The article confirms what everyone knows the real problem is:

Johnson confirmed that he didn't know that the conflicted villain would meet his maker, saying that it was very much a "full hand-off" between each film, rather than a handover with an overall direction.

It's still astounding to me that a billion dollar franchise was approached this way.  I mean I know these were guaranteed money making machines from the start, but it's not like they skimped on the budgets.


Rian killed the Big-Bad in the middle movie. Neither Hux nor Ren were capable of stepping into the roll of chief antagonist for the final movie and you know it. That's why JJ had to dig up the corpse of decades old SW villains and bring Palpatine back (and it sucked).

The whole sideshow in TLJ about how rich people make money on war was about as dumb as opening the prequels with trade embargoes - pointless drivel. The low-speed chase made no sense. Everybody kicking Poe in balls (demoted for a highly successful attack - trading a half dozen bombers for dreadnaught is a no-brainer, then not telling him the plan to sneak out in cloaked ships - wasn't he Leia's most trusted agent a couple days before?). Completely wasting Finn and then injecting a nonsense 'I love you so I'll almost killed us both' thread at the end that NOBODY saw coming.

There was really nothing good in TLJ and RoS was just more nonsense. If Favreau didn't save us where would the franchise be now?
 
2021-03-04 11:20:14 AM  

YodaTuna: MHudson: Snapper Carr: I'm of two minds on TLJ.  I consider it the best film of the sequel trilogy but it's also the film that completely farked up any chance of a coherent narrative for the trilogy as a whole.

Nah, that was Rise Of Skywalker.

Eh... I think the ultimate sin of TLJ was leaving everything too open (RJ even admits he left it as open as possible).  The only thing he sets up is Kylo Ren as Supreme Leader.  He ends the character arcs of Rey, Finn, Poe and Luke all in the second movie.  There are no plot threads for any hero to pick up on and the Big Bad is dead. (Endgame farked up here too by killing Thanos is the first half hour, so they have to bring him back with goofy time travel shenanigans that are more contrived than Palpatine's return)

Contrast all that to Empire Strikes Back where Luke discovers Vader is his father and Han is frozen in carbonite.  These are very obvious things that need to be addressed.  TLJ was the second to last movie in the Skywalker Saga and set up no real interpersonal conflict or stakes for the the final film, meaning that Episode 9, whatever it was, would have had to have been an almost entirely self contained narrative.  Carrie Fisher's death certainly didn't help (but obviously that's no one's fault).


IX was awful beginning to end, but the part that hurt the most was when Poe, Rey, and the Stormtrooper guy all finally got together in that one scene.  They had instant chemistry, and I wanted to see their new adventures.  Then they split up and the movie was over.
 
2021-03-04 11:30:20 AM  

madgonad: There was really nothing good in TLJ and RoS was just more nonsense. If Favreau didn't save us where would the franchise be now?


I'm not going to get into the relative merits of The Mandalorian, but we'd be basically where we are minus The Mandalorian.  People declared the death of Star Wars when the Special Editions came out... and then the Prequels... and then the New Jedi Order... and then The Clone Wars.  The only time Star Wars was even close to dead was from the mid 80s to the mid 90s.  It'll be fine.
 
2021-03-04 11:48:22 AM  
Loved the Last Jedi. Skywalker was... stupid
 
2021-03-04 12:09:22 PM  

YodaTuna: madgonad: There was really nothing good in TLJ and RoS was just more nonsense. If Favreau didn't save us where would the franchise be now?

I'm not going to get into the relative merits of The Mandalorian, but we'd be basically where we are minus The Mandalorian.  People declared the death of Star Wars when the Special Editions came out... and then the Prequels... and then the New Jedi Order... and then The Clone Wars.  The only time Star Wars was even close to dead was from the mid 80s to the mid 90s.  It'll be fine.


Favreau offered a Master Class in how you develop new content while still respecting classic characters. The legendary characters from prior films and series are always secondary characters and do not develop. They exist within their commonly understood role and are used for the new characters to interact with both positively and negatively.
That means when encountered they aren't part of a reversal of expectations. You don't find Ashoka running a whorehouse on Nar Shaddaa. Bo-Katan isn't going to be some pampered princess on the throne of Mandalore. Leia isn't going to be a housewife. Luke isn't going to be a murderous old hermit that doesn't care if the galaxy burns. When legendary characters appear they continue to meet expectations concerning the person they were before. They also don't overstep their role. They are there for a specific purpose and no more.

Seeing Luke cut through the Dark Troopers was fun, but this is the best part of the series so far.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-04 12:50:18 PM  

madgonad: There was really nothing good in TLJ and RoS was just more nonsense. If Favreau didn't save us where would the franchise be now?


Bitter resentment at Disney's arrogance, Lucas hubris, and pointing out that Adam Driver can never show his ears.
 
2021-03-04 12:58:50 PM  

Night Train to Wakanda: pointing out that Adam Driver can never show his ears


Good point. I had to scroll down quite a ways to find this photo

Fark user imageView Full Size


So it looks like you never see the tops of his ears for a reason.
 
2021-03-04 1:08:50 PM  
Just...please. Give the franchise to Filoni and Favreau.
 
2021-03-04 1:10:01 PM  

mybluemake: Man, it's just space cowboys, fighter pilots, laser swords and I regret only that I moved out of a legal marijuana state during the releases.


If you are in a non-legal marijuana state, just go to any bar and ask people if they have any weed. You will only need to ask 1 person. If they don't have any, they'll know someone who does.
 
2021-03-04 1:32:45 PM  

Mugato: Copperbelly watersnake: Snapper Carr: I'm of two minds on TLJ.  I consider it the best film of the sequel trilogy but it's also the film that completely farked up any chance of a coherent narrative for the trilogy as a whole. For me it's almost two films. Rey's plotline makes for a good Star Wars film. The resistance half is a steaming pile of a movie.

It just so purposefully negated everything in The Force Awakens from the opening scene. Say what you want about the prequels at least it had one guy telling one story.


That's the biggest thing against The Last Jedi.  Johnson decided to make a movie that completely upends everythingabout Star Wars. It tried to bring adult concepts in, tried to deconstruct the myths about Jedi, Force and the Sith.

He tried to make Luke Skywalker weak and fallible in the name of drama.

That was the problem. Johnson should have never handled the "numbered" part of the Star Wars series.
 
2021-03-04 1:58:21 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Oh boy, another Rise of the Skywalker article.

[Fark user image image 425x228]


In about 10-15 years there will be a subreddit defending the sequels and poking fun at the obvious plot holes and contradictions in the original and prequels.
 
2021-03-04 2:00:11 PM  

OldJames: mybluemake: Man, it's just space cowboys, fighter pilots, laser swords and I regret only that I moved out of a legal marijuana state during the releases.

If you are in a non-legal marijuana state, just go to any bar and ask people if they have any weed. You will only need to ask 1 person. If they don't have any, they'll know someone who does.


I'm 50 not 15. I understand how that works. But after experiencing recreational retail weed in WA, with my neighborhood dispensary offering over 100 strains in a variety of ingestion formats, each item lab tested and lot numbered and increasingly cheap, I'm out of the black market customer base. Even post-pandemic. My past experiences acquiring weed from a stranger in a dark parking lot of a big city, late at night won't be in my future plans. Getting crap weed of unknown genetics grown in a bag of compost mix in a state forest, covered in Seven dust, is also over.
 
2021-03-04 2:09:35 PM  

Socrofece: Oh god, not this shiat again.

I still have no idea what you people are talking about.  You... at the end of The Force Awakens, you saw Luke look at Rey with anguish and rage on his face, and then expected The Last Jedi to open with him cradling his old lightsaber lovingly, and that he's actually on a super-secret heroic mission, instead of the reasons that Han related?

Apparently I was the only one who remembered that Star Wars likes to play with your expectations, and completely expected him to reject the saber, knock it out of her hand, toss it off the cliff, or whatever.

[img.cinemablend.com image 600x300]


Star Wars was nothing but expectations and archetypes.

Fark user imageView Full Size


Lucas had a huge problem writing his Star Wars script. So he turned to this book he loved. As a guide.

https://www.starwars.com/news/mythic-​d​iscovery-within-the-inner-reaches-of-o​uter-space-joseph-campbell-meets-georg​e-lucas-part-i

https://www.starwars.com/news/mythic-​d​iscovery-within-the-inner-reaches-of-o​uter-space-joseph-campbell-meets-georg​e-lucas-part-2

Unlike Abrams, Johnson, who studied film... and to be Frank just film. Lucas studied history, mythology and anthropology.  Campbell actually had Luke Skywalker on the cover of one edition because the character had all the archetypes boxes checked off.
 
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