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(Daily Kos)   City of Stockton, California learns its lesson after giving free money to the poors   (dailykos.com) divider line
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8911 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 03 Mar 2021 at 10:14 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



150 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


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2021-03-03 6:33:13 PM  
Yeah, it's almost like we need radical solutions to our extremely shiatty problems, or something.
 
2021-03-03 6:41:35 PM  
I believe in the Protestant work ethic, life works better for people born white Protestants.
 
2021-03-03 7:02:22 PM  
Well, rock on, Stockton.

/Grew up in the Tuxedo Park neighborhood south of UOP.
 
2021-03-03 7:17:40 PM  
A wholly expected outcome.
 
2021-03-03 7:46:37 PM  
Welfare lifted me and my brother out of poverty.
 
2021-03-03 8:59:13 PM  
You mean "the little people" *can* be trusted with money?
 
2021-03-03 9:33:27 PM  
Unfortunately in this country only failed political experiments get promoted, shiat that actually works gets rejected as too extreme.
 
2021-03-03 10:13:29 PM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2021-03-03 10:17:48 PM  
that article really needs an editor to look at it.
 
2021-03-03 10:18:53 PM  
um, it's DailyKOS people. Don't get too excited ...
 
2021-03-03 10:21:51 PM  

DiggFerkel: um, it's DailyKOS people.


i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2021-03-03 10:22:35 PM  

DiggFerkel: um, it's DailyKOS people. Don't get too excited ...


Yeah, they use facts and shiat. Not like good conservative lies and cruelty
 
2021-03-03 10:23:03 PM  

DiggFerkel: um, it's DailyKOS people. Don't get too excited ...


It's a story about Stockton that doesn't involve murder or local government corruption.

/Former Stocktard
 
2021-03-03 10:23:32 PM  
Are there no workhouses?
 
2021-03-03 10:24:44 PM  
"The U.S. spends less of its GDP on what are known as "family benefits" than any other country in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, save Turkey."

We're better than Turkey!

/as god is my witness....
 
2021-03-03 10:26:39 PM  
I legit don't see how this proves anything; or even supports the claim that, 'Giving people a UBI will encourage them to stay home and not work'

They gave people $500 per month. That's not a UBI. That's $6000 per year. And this is in Stockton, CA - a place with a very high cost of living.

Nobody I've ever heard describe UBI would consider this a valid example of UBI. You can't have housing, food, healthcare, etc on $500 per month.

Of course recipients kept working and used the $500 to supplement their normal work. They had no choice. This says nothing about how people would act with a real UBI
 
2021-03-03 10:26:43 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


We're exactly 3 years and 6 months from the events of this episode.
 
2021-03-03 10:27:27 PM  

DiggFerkel: um, it's DailyKOS people. Don't get too excited ...


it's literally an article by the atlantic, with a wee bit of stuff added to the margins
 
2021-03-03 10:36:25 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: [Fark user image image 692x530]

We're exactly 3 years and 6 months from the events of this episode.


I feel like the only things they got wrong were the levels of technology and the cops with a conscience.
 
2021-03-03 10:42:05 PM  
Um, Daily Kos = meaningless verdict
 
2021-03-03 10:43:37 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: [Fark user image 692x530]

We're exactly 3 years and 6 months from the events of this episode.


They knew Biden would be elected.

/s
 
2021-03-03 10:46:46 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: [Fark user image image 692x530]

We're exactly 3 years and 6 months from the events of this episode.


And Democrats are in charge, so we're right on track.
 
2021-03-03 10:47:55 PM  
Good article, thanks subby.
This country would benefit greatly from being more practical ---- looking to see what works, and imitating it.
 
2021-03-03 10:48:33 PM  

gameshowhost: "The U.S. spends less of its GDP on what are known as "family benefits" than any other country in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, save Turkey."

We're better than Turkey!

/as god is my witness....


No, we're clearly worse than Turkey because Turkey is spending less on family benefits than we are.
 
2021-03-03 10:48:55 PM  
If you tell people this is a test program or temporary, they aren't going to make major life changes. Buy essentials and pay off debt is the obvious answer.

Telling someone they are getting $500/mo permanently will change a few aspects of the study. c Telling people their behavior is going to be monitored is also a bit different.

Not saying how different the results would be, but we can't use this to prove what the results would be, either.
 
2021-03-03 10:50:00 PM  

Ed Grubermann: DiggFerkel: um, it's DailyKOS people. Don't get too excited ...

It's a story about Stockton that doesn't involve murder or local government corruption.

/Former Stocktard


or Modest Mouse
 
2021-03-03 10:50:08 PM  
The stain of puritanism infesting America has brought generations of senseless suffering upon our people and it's long past time it be told to go fark itself.
 
2021-03-03 10:51:19 PM  
The Daily Loss is cherry-picking the good parts out of the Atlantic article, which in turn just cherry-picked the good results out of the actual program.
 
2021-03-03 10:55:18 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I legit don't see how this proves anything; or even supports the claim that, 'Giving people a UBI will encourage them to stay home and not work'

They gave people $500 per month. That's not a UBI. That's $6000 per year. And this is in Stockton, CA - a place with a very high cost of living.

Nobody I've ever heard describe UBI would consider this a valid example of UBI. You can't have housing, food, healthcare, etc on $500 per month.

Of course recipients kept working and used the $500 to supplement their normal work. They had no choice. This says nothing about how people would act with a real UBI


Up here in Canada we have what's called the child tax credit aka family allowance. The way it is calculated is by his many kids you have and your yearly income and maritial status. Ex a single mom with 5 kids will get quite a bit while a millionaire married couple with 2 kids won't get anything.

It does catch some flack from the right up here as yes you can live simply by pumping out 10 kids and not have to work. However what the critics don't understand is the quality of life for that family is not going to be very good. They will grow up in cramped substandard housing, a lack of structure and supervision, etc... While it is true that some do this and it is a problem, it's not as widespread as the right will make you believe.

When the liberals took power in 2015 they changed the program dramatically. They scrapped pretty much all the deductions for kids activities and boosted the amount you get every month for family allowance which makes sense as not everyone can afford to put their kids in hockey and could use that money for child care. We get a decent amount and it really helps alot. We pretty much funnel it all to child care and then pay for sports and activities out of pocket, which is easier since a major chunk of daycare is already covered.

In short it's amazing what happens when a government chooses to trust it's citizens with benefits. Yes you will have some people abuse it but they will always be the minority. All in all it benefits society and helps move a nation forward.
 
2021-03-03 10:57:17 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: [Fark user image 692x530]

We're exactly 3 years and 6 months from the events of this episode.


Which makes me realize that sh*tstains like Cruz and Hawley used to watch DS9 and took a lot of notes on that particular episode.
 
2021-03-03 10:57:39 PM  
Also...it's a temporary program. Sane people don't make long term choices based on a temporary source of income.

Whether you support UBI or not, you should be able to acknowledge this says nothing about how people would act with a real UBI.

I dunno what crazy economic implications would come with it, but if I were getting a poverty level UBI, and my wife was too.... We would stop working as soon as our youngest was out of high school. We would retire early, to a place with low property taxes. Poverty level is about $24k, so figure $48k living in the middle of nowhere in a nice house we paid off. On top of our normal retirement plan stuff it would give us the confidence not to worry about running out of money.

But $500 per month, for a while? Nah, I'm not changing anything
 
2021-03-03 10:59:55 PM  

Siskabush: Up here in Canada we have what's called the child tax credit aka family allowance. The way it is calculated is by his many kids you have and your yearly income and maritial status. Ex a single mom with 5 kids will get quite a bit while a millionaire married couple with 2 kids won't get anything.

It does catch some flack from the right up here as yes you can live simply by pumping out 10 kids and not have to work.


Well, given that Canada has a less-than-replacement birthrate and a decent social safety net, you'd expect that to be considered a bonus, right?  Let the poor people breed to make workers so you don't need to spend so much on integrating immigrants.
 
2021-03-03 11:00:24 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: That's not a UBI.


Yeah, not really anything to do with UBI but a positive look at how a little extra assistance can be meaningful. Whatever can be done to keep poor people out of predatory financial situations should be done.
 
2021-03-03 11:30:25 PM  
It's like the root cause of poverty is actually not having enough money and you can solve that by giving people money.
 
2021-03-03 11:39:56 PM  
But what are the downsides to this?
 
2021-03-03 11:42:47 PM  
Fark_Guy_Rob:

I'm already bored reading halfway through your fantasy UBI retirement. Anyone would be. That's how humans operate. We are an easily bored species. Give everyone a guaranteed poverty level income, and yes many will quit exploitation type labor jobs, but then what?

They're gonna get bored. They're gonna do stuff. It's gonna cost them money. That will support their neighborhood if nothing else.

But they're probably gonna want more money on top of the ubi, so they're gonna go back to work somehow. With a UBI, they have enough security to though to actually get retrained or otherwise shop for a decent job they actually want.  They could start themselves a local business too, and be one of the folks to help make sure even the bums are helping the economy.

The worst case scenario is still an improvement. Better to start now than wait for automation to completely fark everyone by eleminating drudge jobs while people still need jobs to eat.
 
2021-03-03 11:46:46 PM  
125 Families isn't enough for a friendly South Dakota company to find a way to make sure they get all that cash every month forever.
 
2021-03-03 11:46:51 PM  

jars.traptone: Yeah, it's almost like we need radical solutions to our extremely shiatty problems, or something.


Given what we know about the hierarchy of needs what's radical about giving people the basics?
Most people are hardwired to want more. Give them the basics and let them earn extra and they will.
This isn't radical. And we've known it for a long as time.
 
2021-03-03 11:52:31 PM  
Now that guy that spends his days sitting in his own feces talking to imaginary people will not have the gumption to pull up his bootstraps and get a jorb!
 
2021-03-03 11:56:15 PM  
Where I live we actually go to work and they give us actual money! Kind of a novel idea blue states should try.
 
2021-03-03 11:59:25 PM  

barneyrubble: Where I live we actually go to work and they give us actual money! Kind of a novel idea blue states should try.


When the lowest rent one can find is 800$ what is the point of any job that pays less than 12.50$ an hour, 🦆👄?
 
2021-03-04 12:05:28 AM  

aerojockey: The Daily Loss is cherry-picking the good parts out of the Atlantic article, which in turn just cherry-picked the good results out of the actual program.


What were the bad parts?

Genuinely curious.
 
2021-03-04 12:11:14 AM  

Ed Grubermann: DiggFerkel: um, it's DailyKOS people. Don't get too excited ...

It's a story about Stockton that doesn't involve murder or local government corruption.

/Former Stocktard


Lincoln Village West standing by
 
2021-03-04 12:17:08 AM  
That happened to the other group where they handed out handguns and 500 bullets/month?
 
2021-03-04 12:17:13 AM  
My TFH linked to the original Atlantic article, but was rejected for PolTab.

"News: Guaranteed Basic Income works.  Fark: The rest of the world figured this out decades ago"
 
2021-03-04 12:28:43 AM  

Vern: gameshowhost: "The U.S. spends less of its GDP on what are known as "family benefits" than any other country in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, save Turkey."

We're better than Turkey!

/as god is my witness....

No, we're clearly worse than Turkey because Turkey is spending less on family benefits than we are.


man i hate it when the turks win

/the greeks hate it even more, but i'm not greek
 
2021-03-04 12:47:03 AM  
Can't we just kick California out of the US?
 
2021-03-04 1:16:56 AM  

bughunter: "News: Guaranteed Basic Income works. Fark: The rest of the world figured this out decades ago"


This isn't UBI.  $500/month will not support someone basically anywhere in the US.  Also according to the world bank "no country has a UBI in place."
 
2021-03-04 1:40:26 AM  
Weird....it's almost as if what Republicans keep repeating is untrue.

Can't be though, because they keep repeating it's a known fact that if you give poor people money, they'll piss it away on drugs and booze and won't work.

Ironically, giving poor people money is what their religion tells them they should do, but they can conveniently ignore that.
 
2021-03-04 1:59:52 AM  
America's welfare politics have shifted radically of late, in part because of the economic pressures felt by Millennials, the first generation in recent U.S. history likely to end up poorer than their parents.

I know that mass media likes to pretend that Generation X doesn't exist, but come on. Do some basic research. Then you can go back to leaving us alone and letting us live our miserable lives in relative peace.
 
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