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(Esquire)   Posted for your enjoyment, a line-by-line transcript of the epic verbal beatdown administered by Justice Elena Kagan to a Republican lawyer trying to strip minorities of their voting rights   (esquire.com) divider line
    More: Hero, Voting, Justice Elena Kagan, Poll, Democracy, Michael Carvin, Elections, state of Arizona, way Kagan  
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9130 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 03 Mar 2021 at 1:50 PM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-03-03 12:38:03 PM  
Listening to (or reading) Republicans try to justify their racist, disenfranchising bullshiat is frustrating and infuriating, because of the stupidity and gullibility it assumes of the listener, yet listening to a justice comprehensively tear the argument apart and show the rep that she's not having one little bit of that reeking crock is incredibly satisfying.
 
2021-03-03 1:18:43 PM  
Release the Kagan!
 
2021-03-03 1:21:02 PM  
Republicans are racist shiat stains on the face of humanity.
 
2021-03-03 1:57:53 PM  
I'm all in favor of making protofascists try and justify their protofascism, especially if it's on official record. But will it matter?
 
2021-03-03 1:58:36 PM  
Elena Kagan Dismantled a Republican Lawyer and Might Have Saved Voting Rights Act in the Process


Oh my sweet summer child.  This is just political theater.  No one on the right cares about logic or fairness.  It's all about winning.
 
2021-03-03 1:59:33 PM  
What makes her think Blacks aren't welcome at country clubs? That's the whole reason there is a staff entrance in the back.

/not a serious comment
 
2021-03-03 1:59:44 PM  
Apparently getting seated on the supreme court means you can get away with murder.

/Did i do the Twitter meme right?
 
2021-03-03 1:59:54 PM  
I have some hope of a 6-3 decision in favor of the VRA.  Some, as in a pinch.
 
2021-03-03 1:59:56 PM  
cool, an epic beatdown. that'll muster 2 votes. fix the court
 
2021-03-03 2:03:21 PM  
The far right wing justices won't give a shiat about this "verbal beatdown" when they gut what's left of the VRA.
 
2021-03-03 2:05:15 PM  
Great.

Love it.

It doesn't matter because the right has a stranglehold on the highest court of the land. Celebrating her beatdown is just tilting at windmills.
 
2021-03-03 2:06:04 PM  
Hopefully she threw in some sarcastic clapping at the end, too.
 
2021-03-03 2:07:37 PM  
Beatdown? More of a Curly-esque "poink" in the eye
 
2021-03-03 2:08:10 PM  
They gut it Pelosi needs to attach a new VRA to a bill expanding the court by 3 and reassigning Trumper judges so they can rule on anything other than a chicken coop in Buttfark, Kansas
 
2021-03-03 2:09:14 PM  
I read the article. Could someone show the evisceration part for me? Because none of these things would give a conservative even two seconds of pause. There is no one on the conservative side who would have a problem with any of Kagan's hypotheticals, including the conservative majority on the Court.
 
2021-03-03 2:12:50 PM  
Doesn't matter.  The "originalists" who "just call balls and strikes" are well aware that too many of the wrong people are voting and they're going to put a stop to it.
 
2021-03-03 2:13:20 PM  

Psychopusher: Listening to (or reading) Republicans try to justify their racist, disenfranchising bullshiat is frustrating and infuriating, because of the stupidity and gullibility it assumes of the listener, yet listening to a justice comprehensively tear the argument apart and show the rep that she's not having one little bit of that reeking crock is incredibly satisfying.


Sadly, I doubt it's going to matter.
 
2021-03-03 2:14:16 PM  
People can we stop saying republicans, please. These are Americans, people who are supposed to want others to have the same freedoms as them, you take the  gravitus of what your fellow Americans are doing by just writing them off as republicans.
 
2021-03-03 2:20:56 PM  
In what stretch of the imagination does a hypothetical straw man mean a dismantling of the original argument? Save your golf claps for a real argument and don't be so controlled by a tagline that doesn't match the subject.
 
2021-03-03 2:20:58 PM  

Black_Lazerus: People can we stop saying republicans, please. These are Americans, people who are supposed to want others to have the same freedoms as them, you take the  gravitus of what your fellow Americans are doing by just writing them off as republicans.


But...They are republicans.
 
2021-03-03 2:21:02 PM  
This encapsulates the problem with the Fake News branded Extreme Liberals.

Someone on your side lays an epic smackdown, a clap back, a mic drop, or whatever you call it in your head while you're jacking off over it. You crow about how superior you are, and act like you won everything via one well voiced bit of snark.

And that's all that ever happens. Nothing changes. You still lose. And we move on next week to the next legendary epic amazeballs defiant response, rinse, repeat.

Get over sucking your own and each other's dicks every time one of you opens your stupid mouth, and you might get some legislation done. Maybe even get back to winning and holding seats like you used to, before a fart breathing orange ass mouth became president.
 
2021-03-03 2:21:57 PM  
"these are all hypotheticals that have never existed in the real world"

I can spin all sorts of hypotheticals to make almost *ANYTHING* look bad.   But the truth of the matter is this:

https://www.archives.gov/founding-doc​s​/constitution-transcript

Article. I.
...
Section. 4.
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.

The Congress shall assemble at least once in every Year, and such Meeting shall be on the first Monday in December, unless they shall by Law appoint a different Day.



That seems pretty clear to me.  The states do have the power to determine the "time, place, and manner" of where they hold their elections, but Congress can alter those regulations (except for the places of choosing Senators, which was superseded by the 17th Amendment, making it fall under direct election and thus Congress can modify state laws on that).

If Arizona tried any of those strawmen that Kagan assembled (and that's what they are, they've *NEVER* been done before), Congress can simply over-ride it.
 
2021-03-03 2:26:28 PM  

Black_Lazerus: People can we stop saying republicans, please. These are Americans, people who are supposed to want others to have the same freedoms as them, you take the  gravitus of what your fellow Americans are doing by just writing them off as republicans.


I'm going to assume you meant gravity, not gravitas. Those particular Americans of whom you speak lost their dignity long ago.
 
2021-03-03 2:26:41 PM  

Black_Lazerus: People can we stop saying republicans, please. These are Americans, people who are supposed to want others to have the same freedoms as them, you take the  gravitus of what your fellow Americans are doing by just writing them off as republicans.


i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-03-03 2:27:13 PM  

Black_Lazerus: People can we stop saying republicans, please. These are Americans, people who are supposed to want others to have the same freedoms as them, you take the  gravitus of what your fellow Americans are doing by just writing them off as republicans.


Republican and American don't really mesh very well these days.
 
2021-03-03 2:29:22 PM  
Hero tag.

farking stupid.

Acting like you already won is part of how Hillary lost. I vividly recall the shock when you guys went from shopping for Supreme Court noms, to "What do you mean she lost??!!"

And you haven't learned a single farking thing since. Not one.
 
2021-03-03 2:34:17 PM  

dittybopper: "these are all hypotheticals that have never existed in the real world"

I can spin all sorts of hypotheticals to make almost *ANYTHING* look bad.   But the truth of the matter is this:

https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs​/constitution-transcript

Article. I.
...
Section. 4.
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.

The Congress shall assemble at least once in every Year, and such Meeting shall be on the first Monday in December, unless they shall by Law appoint a different Day.


That seems pretty clear to me.  The states do have the power to determine the "time, place, and manner" of where they hold their elections, but Congress can alter those regulations (except for the places of choosing Senators, which was superseded by the 17th Amendment, making it fall under direct election and thus Congress can modify state laws on that).

If Arizona tried any of those strawmen that Kagan assembled (and that's what they are, they've *NEVER* been done before), Congress can simply over-ride it.


The bill the Georgia House just passed includes stringent limits on Sunday voting. "Never been done" my ass.

https://www.ajc.com/politics/georgia-​h​ouse-to-vote-on-election-restrictions-​amid-staunch-opposition/46SNHMIYGZGMZD​G5KLGHAB6NQ4/
 
2021-03-03 2:35:03 PM  

bittermang: Hero tag.

farking stupid.

Acting like you already won is part of how Hillary lost. I vividly recall the shock when you guys went from shopping for Supreme Court noms, to "What do you mean she lost??!!"

And you haven't learned a single farking thing since. Not one.


I learned that marginalized, mush-brained white supremacists will stop at nothing to force me get in touch with their feelings.
 
2021-03-03 2:36:48 PM  

bittermang: This encapsulates the problem with the Fake News branded Extreme Liberals.

Someone on your side lays an epic smackdown, a clap back, a mic drop, or whatever you call it in your head while you're jacking off over it. You crow about how superior you are, and act like you won everything via one well voiced bit of snark.

And that's all that ever happens. Nothing changes. You still lose. And we move on next week to the next legendary epic amazeballs defiant response, rinse, repeat.

Get over sucking your own and each other's dicks every time one of you opens your stupid mouth, and you might get some legislation done. Maybe even get back to winning and holding seats like you used to, before a fart breathing orange ass mouth became president.


user name, etc.....
 
2021-03-03 2:40:21 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Release the Kagan!


I want that T-shirt.
 
2021-03-03 2:43:10 PM  

dr_iacovone: Black_Lazerus: People can we stop saying republicans, please. These are Americans, people who are supposed to want others to have the same freedoms as them, you take the  gravitus of what your fellow Americans are doing by just writing them off as republicans.

[i.pinimg.com image 500x202]


Okay 👌
 
2021-03-03 2:43:14 PM  

Snapper Carr: Elena Kagan Dismantled a Republican Lawyer and Might Have Saved Voting Rights Act in the Process


Oh my sweet summer child.


Charlie Pierce is one of the most cynical, liberal old farts in journalism.

Neither 'Sweet' nor 'Child' apply to him.

And he was born on Dec 28.
 
2021-03-03 2:47:31 PM  

debug: Psychopusher: Listening to (or reading) Republicans try to justify their racist, disenfranchising bullshiat is frustrating and infuriating, because of the stupidity and gullibility it assumes of the listener, yet listening to a justice comprehensively tear the argument apart and show the rep that she's not having one little bit of that reeking crock is incredibly satisfying.

Sadly, I doubt it's going to matter.


I'm afraid you're probably right.  Unless a new bill is introduced to strengthen the VRA, or Biden issues an EO.  And to be fair, this is the sort of thing I think this administration would be likely to do.
 
2021-03-03 2:52:55 PM  

GoodDoctorB: dittybopper: "these are all hypotheticals that have never existed in the real world"
...
If Arizona tried any of those strawmen that Kagan assembled (and that's what they are, they've *NEVER* been done before), Congress can simply over-ride it.

The bill the Georgia House just passed includes stringent limits on Sunday voting. "Never been done" my ass.


Yup, these hypotheticals were pretty much all ripped from the headlines of the past few years.  Back around 2009, when the ALEC lobbyists were convincing Republican-dominated state legislators that Voter ID and similar techniques would be a valuable addition to their suite of voter-suppression tools (at the small price of changing "Papers in order" from a Commie Plot to Traditional American Patriotism), North Carolina got busted by looking specifically at how Black voters voted and making that harder, rather than looking more generically at how Democrat voters voted (which is apparently perfectly ok to interfere with.)
 
2021-03-03 2:53:19 PM  
Every citizen over 18 is mailed a ballot including state, local and national elections. They can return that ballot by mail or drop-off before election day, or can use it to vote in-person.
This isn't hard.
 
2021-03-03 2:53:29 PM  
Trying to argue against the supremacy clause in an effort to push racist state voting laws with a supreme court justice, especially one who has dealt with voting rights throughout her career, is a bad move from the start. In fact even walking into the courtroom to do so was a bad idea.

Black_Lazerus: People can we stop saying republicans, please.


If they were americans they would realize that there are many other people here that are not them, and that is the way things should be. They think that they are the only people who qualify as "americans", which negates their claim. They are republicans until they decide to be americans.
 
2021-03-03 2:54:09 PM  

bittermang: This encapsulates the problem with the Fake News branded Extreme Liberals.

Someone on your side lays an epic smackdown, a clap back, a mic drop, or whatever you call it in your head while you're jacking off over it. You crow about how superior you are, and act like you won everything via one well voiced bit of snark.

And that's all that ever happens. Nothing changes. You still lose. And we move on next week to the next legendary epic amazeballs defiant response, rinse, repeat.

Get over sucking your own and each other's dicks every time one of you opens your stupid mouth, and you might get some legislation done. Maybe even get back to winning and holding seats like you used to, before a fart breathing orange ass mouth became president.


What helps with all of that is telling people that nothing matters because they're idiots who suck.
 
2021-03-03 2:54:29 PM  

GoodDoctorB: The bill the Georgia House just passed includes stringent limits on Sunday voting. "Never been done" my ass.

https://www.ajc.com/politics/georgia-h​ouse-to-vote-on-election-restrictions-​amid-staunch-opposition/46SNHMIYGZGMZD​G5KLGHAB6NQ4/


So what he was saying is that states can do that stuff, and congress can stomp on it?  Well ... with the party in power, that would never happen, so we're all just screwed, I guess.

Oh wait, if what he's saying is true, Georgia is about to get a new bunghole and we're about to begin a century-long game of whack-a-mole between states and federal?
 
2021-03-03 3:05:09 PM  

mrmopar5287: What makes her think Blacks aren't welcome at country clubs? That's the whole reason there is a staff entrance in the back.

/not a serious comment


Some one on the site did say something to that effect.
 
2021-03-03 3:07:03 PM  
Breyer's argument was the most straightforward, IMHO: How does a literacy test deny equal opportunity to voters? His point being that everyone has an equal opportunity to learn to read even if literacy is/was more common to one social group than another. Kagan's argument of just moving around the time span is simply an extension of that.

It really just comes down to the idea that, if you're going to make arbitrary rule changes with respect to voting, you need a solid reason for it. Anything else is assuredly the result of an attempt to suppress one social class or another.
 
2021-03-03 3:09:10 PM  

Black_Lazerus: People can we stop saying republicans, please. These are Americans, people who are supposed to want others to have the same freedoms as them, you take the  gravitus of what your fellow Americans are doing by just writing them off as republicans.



Heh.  Heh heh.  Heh ha heh.  Hehhehhehhahahahahaha - *breathe* - BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA​AAAAAAA!!!

Oh god, thanks, I needed that.

/Shirley, you can't be serious...
 
2021-03-03 3:10:07 PM  

bittermang: This encapsulates the problem with the Fake News branded Extreme Liberals.

Someone on your side lays an epic smackdown, a clap back, a mic drop, or whatever you call it in your head while you're jacking off over it. You crow about how superior you are, and act like you won everything via one well voiced bit of snark.

And that's all that ever happens. Nothing changes. You still lose. And we move on next week to the next legendary epic amazeballs defiant response, rinse, repeat.

Get over sucking your own and each other's dicks every time one of you opens your stupid mouth, and you might get some legislation done. Maybe even get back to winning and holding seats like you used to, before a fart breathing orange ass mouth became president.


Or maybe you should stop voting they way you are?

I love how all the blame is on the party and not all the people who keep voting for the likes of Trump because Hilary was such a risk to have?
JFC.  In an alternative reality I hope all those farks are in jails dying.
FML and fark this reality.
 
2021-03-03 3:12:04 PM  

bittermang: Hero tag.

farking stupid.

Acting like you already won is part of how Hillary lost. I vividly recall the shock when you guys went from shopping for Supreme Court noms, to "What do you mean she lost??!!"

And you haven't learned a single farking thing since. Not one.


Yeahhhhhhhh let's ignore all the none Republicans that voted for dipshiat
Because that is who 🦆 every single American.
 
2021-03-03 3:20:26 PM  
"911. What's your emergency?"
"I'd like to report a murder."
 
2021-03-03 3:21:35 PM  
Holy shiat, I did not know even the time it takes to vote can be racist. How come black people have to line up 10 minutes more just to vote? What the hell? Where did those stats come from? Isn't this just a case of the voter's distance from the voting place as well as how early they get up to go there?

This reminds me of how I can be late for appointments that are just 5 miles away, while I'm 30 minutes early for those that are 10 miles or more away.
 
2021-03-03 3:26:15 PM  

swahnhennessy: Every citizen over 18 is mailed a ballot including state, local and national elections. They can return that ballot by mail or drop-off before election day, or can use it to vote in-person.
This isn't hard.


Mail in ballots are a terrible idea if you want a functioning democracy. France abolished them in 1975 because of rampant fraud. That hasn't happened in America? Great, you've been lucky so far. Your local political parties must be extremely principled not to cheat an easily cheat-able process.
 
2021-03-03 3:27:46 PM  

Chagrin: Breyer's argument was the most straightforward, IMHO: How does a literacy test deny equal opportunity to voters? His point being that everyone has an equal opportunity to learn to read even if literacy is/was more common to one social group than another. Kagan's argument of just moving around the time span is simply an extension of that.

It really just comes down to the idea that, if you're going to make arbitrary rule changes with respect to voting, you need a solid reason for it. Anything else is assuredly the result of an attempt to suppress one social class or another.


His point begs the question. There is a significant busy of quality scholarship that demonstrates quite conclusively that everyone does not have an equal opportunity to learn to read. In this fact alone that particular argument runs aground.
 
2021-03-03 3:28:33 PM  

waxbeans: bittermang: This encapsulates the problem with the Fake News branded Extreme Liberals.

Someone on your side lays an epic smackdown, a clap back, a mic drop, or whatever you call it in your head while you're jacking off over it. You crow about how superior you are, and act like you won everything via one well voiced bit of snark.

And that's all that ever happens. Nothing changes. You still lose. And we move on next week to the next legendary epic amazeballs defiant response, rinse, repeat.

Get over sucking your own and each other's dicks every time one of you opens your stupid mouth, and you might get some legislation done. Maybe even get back to winning and holding seats like you used to, before a fart breathing orange ass mouth became president.

Or maybe you should stop voting they way you are?

I love how all the blame is on the party and not all the people who keep voting for the likes of Trump because Hilary was such a risk to have?
JFC.  In an alternative reality I hope all those farks are in jails dying.
FML and fark this reality.


And I like how every time I take liberals to task, it is simply known fact how I voted.

I am not your enemy.
 
2021-03-03 3:31:17 PM  

GreenSun: Holy shiat, I did not know even the time it takes to vote can be racist. How come black people have to line up 10 minutes more just to vote? What the hell? Where did those stats come from? Isn't this just a case of the voter's distance from the voting place as well as how early they get up to go there?

This reminds me of how I can be late for appointments that are just 5 miles away, while I'm 30 minutes early for those that are 10 miles or more away.


There are extensive writings on how polling stations are reduced in number in poorer, or more 'ethnic' neighborhoods. There are more than just one case of voting machines at polling stations not even working, or voting supplies not being delivered... there are countless stories about people of color having to wait over ten hours in line just to vote... these are not fantasies.

I'm pretty farking sure they all woke up on time that day too... what kind of knucklehead thinks such crap?
 
2021-03-03 3:32:29 PM  

bittermang: I am not your enemy.


...more wrongheaded thinking.
 
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