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(Vice)   AI driven proctoring software says black people aren't visible and nervous people are cheating scum. Schools have a problem with this   (vice.com) divider line
    More: Sick, Association of Public and Land-Grant Universities, Privacy, exam surveillance company Proctorio, Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, University of Oldenburg, Texas Tech University, Baylor University, Electronic Privacy Information Center  
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842 clicks; posted to STEM » on 02 Mar 2021 at 12:53 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



27 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-03-01 8:36:01 PM  
ask this guy about being visible-
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-01 9:19:36 PM  
The decision came amid a nationwide barrage of complaints from students arguing that the software-which surveils test takers through their computer cameras and microphones, then uses artificial intelligence to measure their "abnormalities"-is discriminatory and a gross invasion of privacy.

Yeah, that's kind of crazy.  I suggest polygraphs or maybe E-meters as a replacement.
 
2021-03-01 9:57:58 PM  
The college i work for uses some of these services.  (Not the one discussed in the article.)

I'm surprised they say it flags things as cheating.  Our services flag them to be reviewed by the faculty member and they make the decision.  It's never the software deciding.
 
2021-03-02 12:53:12 AM  
I get the point of these things, but their execution is often pretty poor. Let the computer flag thousands of instances for further human review.
During a calculus exam, I spend 10 minutes doing the problem, get to the answer and none of my answers are the choices. So I whisper to myself "ok, what the fark did you do here" as I go over my work.
I was flagged 3 times...once for "Talking" during the exam, and twice because the software thought the sound of a car driving by was someone else in the room.

/was doing u-sub and forgot to change the bounds to reflect the substitution.
 
2021-03-02 1:06:56 AM  
It might just one reason to develop infrared facial recognition. Dark skin doesn't provide the same dynamic range for cameras under normal lighting. But perhaps infrared could level things out.
 
2021-03-02 1:17:13 AM  
Accidental affirmative action in a boring surveillance state dystopia.
 
2021-03-02 1:24:24 AM  
Maybe just move more to open book examinations with design around more questions than is possible to finish.

Harder questions, that require analytical thinking and data application and have a webcam feed on the input website, then the person monitoring the exams merely needs to verify that the person sitting at the computer is the right person.

Then short of someone else actually sitting at the computer mashing away at a separate keyboard, taking dictation and discussion back and forth will seriously slow people down.

This way they can Google for the answers all they like, and use whatever resources they want and no one needs to care about them doing that.

The more they know, the less Googling they'll do and the more questions they'll answer.

Finally if there's suspicion of cheating, they can match up the keyboard noise to the person on the screen.

If they have a second keyboard, and the person on the screen is able to match their noise/movement perfectly without knowing what is being typed in a time sensitive environment.

Then fark, let them have it. They've probably put more effort into that than any of your other students have put into the subject matter.
 
2021-03-02 1:33:10 AM  

kcoombs69: I get the point of these things, but their execution is often pretty poor. Let the computer flag thousands of instances for further human review.
During a calculus exam, I spend 10 minutes doing the problem, get to the answer and none of my answers are the choices. So I whisper to myself "ok, what the fark did you do here" as I go over my work.
I was flagged 3 times...once for "Talking" during the exam, and twice because the software thought the sound of a car driving by was someone else in the room.

/was doing u-sub and forgot to change the bounds to reflect the substitution.


that's always a trap. i usually just leave the bounds in terms of the original variables and switch out the Us at the very end. much safer imo
 
2021-03-02 1:34:48 AM  
Portia de Rossi should be writing the rebuttal for the AI company. God, that would be funny as a YouTube video.
 
2021-03-02 1:48:46 AM  

New Farkin User Name: kcoombs69: I get the point of these things, but their execution is often pretty poor. Let the computer flag thousands of instances for further human review.
During a calculus exam, I spend 10 minutes doing the problem, get to the answer and none of my answers are the choices. So I whisper to myself "ok, what the fark did you do here" as I go over my work.
I was flagged 3 times...once for "Talking" during the exam, and twice because the software thought the sound of a car driving by was someone else in the room.

/was doing u-sub and forgot to change the bounds to reflect the substitution.

that's always a trap. i usually just leave the bounds in terms of the original variables and switch out the Us at the very end. much safer imo


I'll usually figure out what the new bounds should be, and right then decide to use the new ones or old ones.  If the new ones look just as dirty or dirtier than the originals, I'll just stick to the originals.
 
2021-03-02 2:37:40 AM  

labman: The college i work for uses some of these services.  (Not the one discussed in the article.)

I'm surprised they say it flags things as cheating.  Our services flag them to be reviewed by the faculty member and they make the decision.  It's never the software deciding.


Some professors and the department heads are uninterested in actually teaching or doing the right thing. There was an article on Fark late last year about the same service, where the professor and the department just went along with whatever the AI decided.
 
2021-03-02 2:39:15 AM  
I don't know. At UC Berkeley proctors would escort students to the restroom if they needed to go during a test. Sure, someone had written the gas laws on the bathroom wall in letters ten inches high, but it still seemed intrusive.
 
2021-03-02 2:44:37 AM  

dyhchong: Harder questions, that require analytical thinking and data application and have a webcam feed on the input website, then the person monitoring the exams merely needs to verify that the person sitting at the computer is the right person.


It's wild they think grading tests like this is more expensive than buying and implementing bizarre webcam monitoring software
 
2021-03-02 4:34:09 AM  
"Proctorio" sounds like the name of a vilain in a comics read by The Simpsons' Comic Book Guys.
 
2021-03-02 5:46:12 AM  
Show me a proctoring software, and I will show you a way to defeat it. (any college kid)
 
2021-03-02 7:27:31 AM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Portia de Rossi should be writing the rebuttal for the AI company. God, that would be funny as a YouTube video.


The company's position is that it's actually the opposite of racist, because it's not targeting black people. It's just ignoring them. They insist the worst people can call it is "indifferent."  In the meantime they'd like everyone to celebrate the fact that it sees Hispanics, Asians, Pacific Islanders, and Jews.
 
2021-03-02 7:38:47 AM  
discriminatory and a gross invasion of privacy


If it was watching you while you slept in your bed, then yes.
If it was watching you while you were leaving a stink pickle in the 2nd floor boys' room, then yes.
If it was watching you while you were rubbing one out to Joe Biden, then yes.
If it was watching you while you are taking a test, then no.
 
2021-03-02 9:10:32 AM  

Heliodorus: Some professors and the department heads are uninterested in actually teaching or doing the right thing. There was an article on Fark late last year about the same service, where the professor and the department just went along with whatever the AI decided.


Honestly, that doesn't really surprise me.  Some people put complete trust in what a program says even if it's obviously wrong.
 
2021-03-02 9:54:34 AM  
What problem are they trying to solve?
In the real adult world, the rich buy their way into school and life in general, and the cheaters simply cheat well and get away with it or cheat poorly and get caught. Everyone else tries and succeeds or fails within that playing field. Why are they pretending that life is fair?
 
2021-03-02 10:43:21 AM  

dyhchong: Maybe just move more to open book examinations with design around more questions than is possible to finish.

Harder questions, that require analytical thinking and data application and have a webcam feed on the input website, then the person monitoring the exams merely needs to verify that the person sitting at the computer is the right person.

Then short of someone else actually sitting at the computer mashing away at a separate keyboard, taking dictation and discussion back and forth will seriously slow people down.

This way they can Google for the answers all they like, and use whatever resources they want and no one needs to care about them doing that.

The more they know, the less Googling they'll do and the more questions they'll answer.

Finally if there's suspicion of cheating, they can match up the keyboard noise to the person on the screen.

If they have a second keyboard, and the person on the screen is able to match their noise/movement perfectly without knowing what is being typed in a time sensitive environment.

Then fark, let them have it. They've probably put more effort into that than any of your other students have put into the subject matter.


Virtual classes need to stop recycling quizzes and tests.  The companies that create the class modules should give the the schools easy access to alter the questions/answers on multiple choice.  (complaint we have heard from the district both my kids are in).  Why?  There are sites dedicated to gathering and posting the answers to the questions for virtual school modules.Heck, at times, all you need to do is type part of the question in google, and an answer on some site will pop up.  There are so many easy ways to get around virtual school text and quizzes.

I do like the idea of many questions.  For up to somewhere between 7th and 9th grade that may work. (testing basics) High school exams?  They should involve critical thinking, gathering data, multi-part story problems.  Why?  Application. Not regurgitation. That is the real world. That said, not looking up answers or being able to reference notes IMHO the antithesis of working in the real world.  Heck, even 'basic programming' is 'find an example, modify to your needs' or black boxes.

We are getting to the point of processing so much information on a daily basis, we cannot hold it all, or understand it all.  But finding the tool we need to use?  That is the skill i'm trying to teach the employees under me and my kids.  Even then, finding/research answers/processes/directions is how improve our personal lives on a daily basis.  Some much DIY. Even then, what we learned how to do yesterday, may change or be modified for the better tomorrow.

As I tell my my EITs, support staff, and my kids:
1) Everyone starts somewhere.  All of us with next to zero knowledge.
2) Knowing is ok.  Being able to confirm is better.  The human brain makes mistakes.
3) Not knowing the specifics of everything I teach or you will otherwise learn is just fine as long as you know how to navigate reference material.
4) Take notes that will be useful for you in the future. Especially years from now.
5) Review those notes and update them periodically.
6) Question.  Everything. That includes questioning what we are doing, questioning me. I'm not always right either.  The only bad question is the one not asked.
 
2021-03-02 11:59:40 AM  
how about a more market reality honest headline there vice.

Schools Are Abandoning Invasive alpha dev state Proctoring Software After Student Backlash at being put to free quality assurance testing labor.

And then keep in mind the Bot will be as good at the job as the humans that program it.

Like yeah some human proctors just decide you look nervous enough you must be cheating and get up in your biz for it. Or maybe even are themselves racist shiat heads that will abuse their position of  authority to carry out their racist bullshiat.


As long as the humans program the bot they are just being programed to act like their programmers/designers.
But of course as soon as we turn that job over to the bots themselves it'll just be a bunch of, kill all the humans, and play hide n seek with Sara Connor.
 
2021-03-02 12:55:52 PM  

Petey4335: dyhchong: Maybe just move more to open book examinations with design around more questions than is possible to finish.

Harder questions, that require analytical thinking and data application and have a webcam feed on the input website, then the person monitoring the exams merely needs to verify that the person sitting at the computer is the right person.

Then short of someone else actually sitting at the computer mashing away at a separate keyboard, taking dictation and discussion back and forth will seriously slow people down.

This way they can Google for the answers all they like, and use whatever resources they want and no one needs to care about them doing that.

The more they know, the less Googling they'll do and the more questions they'll answer.

Finally if there's suspicion of cheating, they can match up the keyboard noise to the person on the screen.

If they have a second keyboard, and the person on the screen is able to match their noise/movement perfectly without knowing what is being typed in a time sensitive environment.

Then fark, let them have it. They've probably put more effort into that than any of your other students have put into the subject matter.

Virtual classes need to stop recycling quizzes and tests.  The companies that create the class modules should give the the schools easy access to alter the questions/answers on multiple choice.  (complaint we have heard from the district both my kids are in).  Why?  There are sites dedicated to gathering and posting the answers to the questions for virtual school modules.Heck, at times, all you need to do is type part of the question in google, and an answer on some site will pop up.  There are so many easy ways to get around virtual school text and quizzes.

I do like the idea of many questions.  For up to somewhere between 7th and 9th grade that may work. (testing basics) High school exams?  They should involve critical thinking, gathering data, multi-part story problems.  Why?  Application.  ...


The great majority of tests should not be multiple guess.
 
2021-03-02 1:34:14 PM  
EXAMINATE EXAMINATE EXAMINATE

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-02 2:20:00 PM  

padraig: "Proctorio" sounds like the name of a vilain in a comics read by The Simpsons' Comic Book Guys.


And he's into butt stuff.
 
2021-03-02 3:16:02 PM  

Benjimin_Dover: discriminatory and a gross invasion of privacy


If it was watching you while you slept in your bed, then yes.
If it was watching you while you were leaving a stink pickle in the 2nd floor boys' room, then yes.
If it was watching you while you were rubbing one out to Joe Biden, then yes.
If it was watching you while you are taking a test, then no.


What if it was watching me rub one out while taking the test, HHRRMMMM?
 
2021-03-02 6:39:48 PM  

freakdiablo: Benjimin_Dover: discriminatory and a gross invasion of privacy


If it was watching you while you slept in your bed, then yes.
If it was watching you while you were leaving a stink pickle in the 2nd floor boys' room, then yes.
If it was watching you while you were rubbing one out to Joe Biden, then yes.
If it was watching you while you are taking a test, then no.

What if it was watching me rub one out while taking the test, HHRRMMMM?


Nope. The controlling activity is taking the test which is not a private activity.
 
2021-03-02 8:04:39 PM  
Embrace the Panopticon, Student Citizen.
 
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