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(The Nation)   About 1/3 of active duty military personnel -- up to half the servicemen in some units -- are refusing to take the coronavirus vaccine. If only the military had a way to, I dunno, order its soldiers to do stuff   (thenation.com) divider line
    More: Stupid, Vaccination, Vaccine, coronavirus vaccine, Anthrax, one-third of military service members, public affairs officer, coronavirus vaccines, good reason  
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2216 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 01 Mar 2021 at 5:50 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-03-01 5:05:37 PM  
When did vaccinations become optional in the military?
 
2021-03-01 5:05:57 PM  
federal law prohibits the mandatory application of medicines within the military that are not fully licensed by the US Food and Drug Administration. The three coronavirus vaccines currently available in the United States-the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, and, as of Saturday, the Johnson & Johnson versions-are approved on "emergency use authorizations," meaning the drugs are technically still experimental. Full approval could take years, during which time hundreds of thousands of service members will apparently remain susceptible to, and potentially vectors of, Covid-19.
 
2021-03-01 5:16:14 PM  

ElvisThroop: federal law prohibits the mandatory application of medicines within the military that are not fully licensed by the US Food and Drug Administration.


Smells like BS. Do you have a Citation for that 'fact'. Also, note the word "Emergency Use"
 
2021-03-01 5:26:34 PM  

optikeye: ElvisThroop: federal law prohibits the mandatory application of medicines within the military that are not fully licensed by the US Food and Drug Administration.

Smells like BS. Do you have a Citation for that 'fact'. Also, note the word "Emergency Use"


I actually believe that is a court case right now- whether EUA can be forced... That may be the issue though
 
2021-03-01 5:32:50 PM  

ElvisThroop: federal law prohibits the mandatory application of medicines within the military that are not fully licensed by the US Food and Drug Administration. The three coronavirus vaccines currently available in the United States-the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, and, as of Saturday, the Johnson & Johnson versions-are approved on "emergency use authorizations," meaning the drugs are technically still experimental. Full approval could take years, during which time hundreds of thousands of service members will apparently remain susceptible to, and potentially vectors of, Covid-19.


FWIW, that's more or less how it's been explained to us where I'm stationed regarding optional vaccination.  They didn't mention the "could take years".  We did get an order and a deadline to notify our medical chain of command whether we intended to opt out or not so they knew how many doses to order.  I volunteered to take it because I want to be part of the success/failure data that will hopefully lead to better choices in the future.
 
2021-03-01 5:33:19 PM  
I was in the group who got the Anthrax vaccine in 97. The military can force you to get a shot, and tell you "litigate this with your bad conduct discharge." So, we could just kick them out. Not that it would be the best thing for the military, but that option is still on the table.
 
2021-03-01 5:36:03 PM  

Irving Maimway: I was in the group who got the Anthrax vaccine in 97. The military can force you to get a shot, and tell you "litigate this with your bad conduct discharge." So, we could just kick them out. Not that it would be the best thing for the military, but that option is still on the table.


This.  And the Anthrax vaccine was technically experimental as the druge was not designed to protect from aerosolized anthrax.
 
2021-03-01 5:38:38 PM  

netizencain: Irving Maimway: I was in the group who got the Anthrax vaccine in 97. The military can force you to get a shot, and tell you "litigate this with your bad conduct discharge." So, we could just kick them out. Not that it would be the best thing for the military, but that option is still on the table.

This.  And the Anthrax vaccine was technically experimental as the druge was not designed to protect from aerosolized anthrax.


i thought it was contingent on deployment if they could force it.

Qanon shaman separated from the navy after refusing the anthrax shot.
 
2021-03-01 5:39:04 PM  
If they're refusing vaccines, they doubtless have terrifying takes on 6 January too.

Dishonorable Discharge and on the terrorist watch list.
 
2021-03-01 5:41:27 PM  

Jackal_N: When did vaccinations become optional in the military?


I remember a serviceman joke that you couldn't go to the Dr. without being injected with something. And yeah, they don't need your consent to do it. You join the military, you become GI: government issue.
 
2021-03-01 5:42:36 PM  
Can they also refuse to treat them for an avoidable illness resulting from not taking a vaccine?
 
2021-03-01 5:43:13 PM  
Ah, but the article does a good job explaining why it's voluntary: it hasn't been fully licensed and approved by the FDA, it's under emergency authorization.
 
2021-03-01 5:45:41 PM  
Meanwhile, millions of us civilians -- many without three hots and a cot or on the verge of no hots and no cot --  wait for vaccine so we can shamble en masse toward economic, social, and poiitical devastation that our current lifestyles don't permit us to see fully.  It's likely not to be much for a while, but we'll take the shots so we can try to move on somehow.

What it sounds like is that the military has done a crappy job educating personnel about SARS-CoV-2 in a global sense.
 
2021-03-01 5:49:32 PM  
I thought part of being active duty meant being vaccinated against all sorts of bad things like anthrax? I don't see how they could protest taking a bog standard COVID-19 vaccine without being written up as unfit for duty.
 
2021-03-01 5:53:35 PM  
Complete BS. They are owned by the taxpayer.
 
2021-03-01 5:53:55 PM  
fuzetees.comView Full Size
 
2021-03-01 5:54:20 PM  
I don't remember being given a choice on any vaccines. But hey, I'm good on a wide variety of nasties now.
 
2021-03-01 5:54:52 PM  
It sounds like they are making it easy to figure out who to kick out of the military to cut down on fascists, white supremacists, and Qnuts among its ranks.
 
2021-03-01 5:55:53 PM  
Stupid, this should not be optional for anyone , military or otherwise.    You want to be able to stop wearing a masjk and for the other restrictions to go away as soon as possible? then get the damn vaccine.
 
2021-03-01 5:57:30 PM  
Probably the wise choice. I've heard rumors floating around that Al Qaeda put tracking microchips into the vaccines.
 
2021-03-01 5:57:31 PM  

Jackal_N: When did vaccinations become optional in the military?


I'm not even military, but I was DoD and deployed to iraq. I was a pin cushion. Wanna see my smallpox scar?
 
2021-03-01 5:58:41 PM  
Presumably the VA won't treat anyone of covid related symptoms that refuses the vaccine?

farkin plague rat assholes.
 
2021-03-01 5:58:58 PM  
What about 1991? Gulf war syndrome?

/Never served
//watched jarhead a few times
///gas gas gas
 
2021-03-01 5:59:06 PM  

Breaker Moran: Meanwhile, millions of us civilians -- many without three hots and a cot or on the verge of no hots and no cot --  wait for vaccine so we can shamble en masse toward economic, social, and poiitical devastation that our current lifestyles don't permit us to see fully.  It's likely not to be much for a while, but we'll take the shots so we can try to move on somehow.

What it sounds like is that the military has done a crappy job educating personnel about SARS-CoV-2 in a global sense.


TBH, to me, it depends on why they are refusing.

Option A:  "I refuse to take this vaccine because there are millions of people out there at much higher risk than I am, who need this vaccine before I do. And, if you're not ordering me flat out to take the vaccine, i would rather my dose goes to someone who actually farking needs it now, and get mine later."

That is honorable, noble, and totally acceptable to me.  In fact, if it weren't for the fact that I care for elderly parents that are extremely high risk, I would've foregone my own vaccine shots, which I got thanks to my role working with critical systems for a hospital.

I mean, if the person was a medic or in a unit that was in any way front-line (so, basically anyone other than a POG), I'd still strongly advise them to take the shot, but yeah.

Option B: "Nah, bro, Vaccines are totally gonna give me autism and fark that, and anyway I believe COVID is a giant hoax and this is going to give me 5GSuperghonnasyphiliaids and I don't want that in my body, lulz."

Fark you, take your farking shot and help protect america, you ignorant fark.
 
2021-03-01 5:59:24 PM  

ElvisThroop: federal law prohibits the mandatory application of medicines within the military that are not fully licensed by the US Food and Drug Administration. The three coronavirus vaccines currently available in the United States-the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, and, as of Saturday, the Johnson & Johnson versions-are approved on "emergency use authorizations," meaning the drugs are technically still experimental. Full approval could take years, during which time hundreds of thousands of service members will apparently remain susceptible to, and potentially vectors of, Covid-19.


This is a great point. There have been many op-eds about requiring the vaccine, and I have wondered why one would think anyone could mandate an 'experimental' vaccine.
 
2021-03-01 5:59:39 PM  

netizencain: Irving Maimway: I was in the group who got the Anthrax vaccine in 97. The military can force you to get a shot, and tell you "litigate this with your bad conduct discharge." So, we could just kick them out. Not that it would be the best thing for the military, but that option is still on the table.

This.  And the Anthrax vaccine was technically experimental as the druge was not designed to protect from aerosolized anthrax.


The SO got the Anthrax vax in the 80's and it was 'experimental' and no opt out. Also Plague I and Plague II.
No bad side effects from those....tho he does have a couple of extra nipples on his back.
 
2021-03-01 5:59:48 PM  
rightwingers: we want to spread our plague around and kill lots of people, but stop calling us plague rats.
 
2021-03-01 6:00:04 PM  
MAGA hatters think COVID is fake and the vaccines inject microchips from Bill Gates into you.

Minorities think the government might be trying to use them for human medical experiments.

One of these concerns is more real than the other.
 
2021-03-01 6:00:10 PM  
Disgraceful seditionists.  Discharge them, they're unreliable and their allegiance is suspect.  If you don't have the guts to get a couple of shots to protect the men and women serving next to you, the military doesn't need you.
 
2021-03-01 6:00:33 PM  
hm. good law, wouldn't want it changed.
perhaps it would be possible to ask congress to authorize a very limited scope exemption for the purposes of coronavirus vaccination? Pandemics are hopefully infrequent enough that we would need to define a whole new policy of when it'd be ok to enforce taking not-fully-authorized drugs and just take it case by case.
 
2021-03-01 6:01:24 PM  
would->wouldn't
 
2021-03-01 6:02:06 PM  
Sorry not sorry...they didn't join the military because they made a 36 on the ACT and had full scholarships to college...
 
2021-03-01 6:02:17 PM  
Gump, why did you take that vaccine?
 
2021-03-01 6:02:27 PM  

optikeye: ElvisThroop: federal law prohibits the mandatory application of medicines within the military that are not fully licensed by the US Food and Drug Administration.

Smells like BS. Do you have a Citation for that 'fact'. Also, note the word "Emergency Use"


Emergency use is a designation that allows the medical world to administer experimental treatments when no other life saving options are available. We are in an emergency situation and this will save lives, but I doubt the vaccine can be mandatory without blanket authorization, and unfortunately, not even then.

/Get your damn shots!
 
2021-03-01 6:02:27 PM  

some_beer_drinker: [fuzetees.com image 850x850]


Citizenship?? That sounds great! I'd like to know more!
 
2021-03-01 6:03:27 PM  
I didn't realize that the military was so into individualism...

farking far cry from the US Military of yesteryear. Glorified rent-a-cops for corporate interests now.
 
2021-03-01 6:03:47 PM  
Also...This is a good reason to discharge 1/3 of the personnel.

It's kinda like an asshole detector. Good way to get rid of those that won't follow orders, or even following orders from enemies of the state. These are the people you do not want in your military. So bye bye...bye bye.
 
2021-03-01 6:04:03 PM  
how about Leavenworth? is Leavenworth good?
 
2021-03-01 6:04:24 PM  

SomeAmerican: MAGA hatters think COVID is fake and the vaccines inject microchips from Bill Gates into you.

Minorities think the government might be trying to use them for human medical experiments.

One of these concerns is more real than the other.


I am very concerned about the J&J one-dose vaccine. It is not as effective, and for some stupid reason, the plan is to use it in lower income areas.
 
2021-03-01 6:04:26 PM  

thehobbes: netizencain: Irving Maimway: I was in the group who got the Anthrax vaccine in 97. The military can force you to get a shot, and tell you "litigate this with your bad conduct discharge." So, we could just kick them out. Not that it would be the best thing for the military, but that option is still on the table.

This.  And the Anthrax vaccine was technically experimental as the druge was not designed to protect from aerosolized anthrax.

i thought it was contingent on deployment if they could force it.

Qanon shaman separated from the navy after refusing the anthrax shot.


I was told I could opt out of the anthrax shot. Took it anyway... All three. Never had a serious adverse effect though.
 
2021-03-01 6:04:53 PM  
 
2021-03-01 6:06:17 PM  

ElvisThroop: federal law prohibits the mandatory application of medicines within the military that are not fully licensed by the US Food and Drug Administration. The three coronavirus vaccines currently available in the United States-the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, and, as of Saturday, the Johnson & Johnson versions-are approved on "emergency use authorizations," meaning the drugs are technically still experimental. Full approval could take years, during which time hundreds of thousands of service members will apparently remain susceptible to, and potentially vectors of, Covid-19.


For once, civilians are being guinea pigged and the military gets to opt out (for now).
 
2021-03-01 6:06:23 PM  

optikeye: ElvisThroop: federal law prohibits the mandatory application of medicines within the military that are not fully licensed by the US Food and Drug Administration.

Smells like BS. Do you have a Citation for that 'fact'. Also, note the word "Emergency Use"


I googled and found a ama ethics article with this:

https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/a​rticle/informed-consent-military-anthr​ax-vaccination-case/2007-10

The military is constrained by law when seeking to require members to participate in experimental treatment or use of a drug "unapproved for its applied use." Notice must be provided containing certain information about the treatment [8], and consent must be obtained in accordance with the federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act [9]. After more than three decades of use, the vaccine itself was not experimental. But the vaccination used by the military had been approved by the FDA for cutaneous exposure to the disease, whereas AVIP was intended to protect the troops from inhalation anthrax, and many raised the question of whether the vaccine was effective against that form and whether the military could mandate inoculation.

[8] 10 USC sec. 1107.
[9] 21 USC sec. 355(i)(4).

under [8] we find this:

(f)Limitation and Waiver.-
(1)
In the case of the administration of an investigational new drug or a drug unapproved for its applied use to a member of the armed forces in connection with the member's participation in a particular military operation, the requirement that the member provide prior consent to receive the drug in accordance with the prior consent requirementimposed under section 505(i)(4) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 355(i)(4)) may be waived only by the President. The President may grant such a waiver only if the President determines, in writing, that obtaining consent is not in the interests of national security.

(bolding mine) it appears it depends on whether the President makes a national security determination.
 
2021-03-01 6:07:08 PM  

netizencain: Irving Maimway: I was in the group who got the Anthrax vaccine in 97. The military can force you to get a shot, and tell you "litigate this with your bad conduct discharge." So, we could just kick them out. Not that it would be the best thing for the military, but that option is still on the table.

This.  And the Anthrax vaccine was technically experimental as the druge was not designed to protect from aerosolized anthrax.


It was and is not veterinarians and meat packers have gotten it for years.

They need to start issuing articles 15s.
 
2021-03-01 6:07:40 PM  
Recruiter texted me out of the blue the other day. I replied that they must be pretty farking desperate, because I just turned 35. We've got a bottom-of-the-barrel military force these days apparently.
 
2021-03-01 6:07:53 PM  

RyansPrivates: optikeye: ElvisThroop: federal law prohibits the mandatory application of medicines within the military that are not fully licensed by the US Food and Drug Administration.

Smells like BS. Do you have a Citation for that 'fact'. Also, note the word "Emergency Use"

I googled and found a ama ethics article with this:

https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/a​rticle/informed-consent-military-anthr​ax-vaccination-case/2007-10

The military is constrained by law when seeking to require members to participate in experimental treatment or use of a drug "unapproved for its applied use." Notice must be provided containing certain information about the treatment [8], and consent must be obtained in accordance with the federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act [9]. After more than three decades of use, the vaccine itself was not experimental. But the vaccination used by the military had been approved by the FDA for cutaneous exposure to the disease, whereas AVIP was intended to protect the troops from inhalation anthrax, and many raised the question of whether the vaccine was effective against that form and whether the military could mandate inoculation.

[8] 10 USC sec. 1107.
[9] 21 USC sec. 355(i)(4).

under [8] we find this:

(f)Limitation and Waiver.-
(1)
In the case of the administration of an investigational new drug or a drug unapproved for its applied use to a member of the armed forces in connection with the member's participation in a particular military operation, the requirement that the member provide prior consent to receive the drug in accordance with the prior consent requirementimposed under section 505(i)(4) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 355(i)(4)) may be waived only by the President. The President may grant such a waiver only if the President determines, in writing, that obtaining consent is not in the interests of national security.

(bolding mine) it appears it depends on whether the President makes a national security determination.


(forgot to to say it also depends on whether the vaccine is considered an investigational new drug)
 
2021-03-01 6:09:19 PM  
Great way to weed out the consumers of disinformation destructive to the country.
 
2021-03-01 6:09:41 PM  

Kit Fister: i would rather my dose goes to someone who actually farking needs it now, and get mine later."


I have a 19yo cousin who is on a full athletic scholarship as a freshman.  Got a minor cold early December, went and got tested, came back positive for COVID19.  Quarantined.  After quarantine, tried to restart her daily workout routine and found she got winded extremely quick.  Went to various doctors, and despite what seemed like a very minor case, she has permanent scars throughout her lungs, and now can't walk across the room without getting out of breath.

I'm not sure what you mean by "actually parking needs it" considering the close quarters most military personnel find themselves in, and how rapidly this could take out combat OSes if even a 20% are unvaccinated.
 
2021-03-01 6:09:41 PM  

Barry McCockner: SomeAmerican: MAGA hatters think COVID is fake and the vaccines inject microchips from Bill Gates into you.

Minorities think the government might be trying to use them for human medical experiments.

One of these concerns is more real than the other.

I am very concerned about the J&J one-dose vaccine. It is not as effective, and for some stupid reason, the plan is to use it in lower income areas.


Because we want to be seen as caring about them without actually caring.
 
2021-03-01 6:10:00 PM  

ElvisThroop: federal law prohibits the mandatory application of medicines within the military that are not fully licensed by the US Food and Drug Administration. The three coronavirus vaccines currently available in the United States-the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, and, as of Saturday, the Johnson & Johnson versions-are approved on "emergency use authorizations," meaning the drugs are technically still experimental. Full approval could take years, during which time hundreds of thousands of service members will apparently remain susceptible to, and potentially vectors of, Covid-19.


Federal law enforcement is making it mandatory for people who take various optional training and career advancement opportunities, so the military probably has some workarounds there.
 
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