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(National Post)   The Queen of England is to blame for Canada's vaccine rollout website and what is this I don't even   (nationalpost.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Vaccine, Vaccination, spry 50-year-old, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, public health agency, weeks of prayers, new U.S. president, federal government  
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3195 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Mar 2021 at 8:46 PM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



105 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-03-01 3:54:23 PM  
She also wants to go to your house and start pushing you around!
IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?
 
2021-03-01 6:42:33 PM  
And what does the general prescribe? Some time in a couple of weeks, a booking system will be put in place in which people over 80 can begin seeking appointments to get their shots in the arm. How majestic. A month later, those 75-79 will get their chance. And a couple of weeks after that, those over 70 will finally get their chance. Not until summer arrives will the full complement of seniors 65 and up get to form a queue. If you're a relatively spry 50-year-old, you'll have to wait until later. No summer patios for you!

Oh Jesus people GET A F*CKING GRIP. We've been locked up for a year now, and you can't wait a few more months? How weak are you? Deal with it.
 
2021-03-01 6:44:03 PM  
And yet in the country where she actually lives...

Fark user imageView Full Size


Canada put a military man in charge? In the UK Boris put a businesswoman in charge of the vaccine purchase and told her to get a move on.

Canada has far fewer deaths than the UK so far, so maybe that has led to a lack of urgency? The UK is seeing plummeting new cases and deaths now and is looking forward to easing lockdown within weeks, as other European countries are talking about having to keep or even impose new lockdowns.
 
2021-03-01 8:24:28 PM  
I'm not sure the US is a good example, opinion writer.

/suspects there'd be a lot more vaccine hesitancy had we not gotten f*cked as hard by Covid and/or reelected the last guy.
 
2021-03-01 8:47:26 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: And yet in the country where she actually lives...

[Fark user image 634x381]

Canada put a military man in charge? In the UK Boris put a businesswoman in charge of the vaccine purchase and told her to get a move on.

Canada has far fewer deaths than the UK so far, so maybe that has led to a lack of urgency? The UK is seeing plummeting new cases and deaths now and is looking forward to easing lockdown within weeks, as other European countries are talking about having to keep or even impose new lockdowns.


Canada also spent the last four years with a gigantic asshole as a neighbor/major trade partner who's leader kept intentionally messing with the arrangements.  Something the EU could relate to ;)

/and yah Canada has literally 1/3 per million covid deaths as the US and the UK so over all while its bad, its definitely not as bad as those two crap-hole countries let things get.
 
2021-03-01 8:53:23 PM  
I couldn't finish reading that but rest assured that whoever wrote it is a farking idiot.
 
2021-03-01 8:57:30 PM  

Russ1642: I couldn't finish reading that but rest assured that whoever wrote it is a farking idiot.


National Post is a Conrad Black project. Pretty much all you need to know about the National Post, really.
 
2021-03-01 9:01:26 PM  
Geez Liz, do you even javascript?

Uh, I mean Your Honour... err Your Majesty.  Do you even javascript, Your Majesty?

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-01 9:02:28 PM  
She's mad that the Tories aren't in charge so they can do what the UK Tories have done during COVID.  Namely, award massive contracts to incompetent friends for things like the vaccine rollout.  I do wish things were faster, but I'm not gonna hear about it from this lot.
 
2021-03-01 9:05:10 PM  
The National Post is an insult to toilet paper. It doesn't absorb fark-all.
 
2021-03-01 9:06:46 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Canada also spent the last four years with a gigantic asshole as a neighbor/major trade partner who's leader kept intentionally messing with the arrangements.  Something the EU could relate to ;)


The UK used it's new freedom from EU rules to do our own thing on vaccines and do a far far better job than the EU.
The EU argued among themselves, took months to place orders, then whined like babies when the UK did a far better job, threatened the entire Irish peace process by announcing border controls, after spending four years pretending to care so much about Ireland and telling the UK there must be no border controls, (with the Irish government finding out by seeing it on the news), threatening to block delivery of perfectly legal orders to the UK and literally steal our vaccines to use themselves, then rubbished the Oxford vaccine by claiming it wasn't as good, we'd taken shortcuts on approving it and it "didn't work on old people" leading to millions of Europeans now refusing to take it so the EU leaders are now having to furiously backtrack and beg their people to take the vaccine because they're falling further and further behind the UK in vaccinations.

It is EU countries now having to talk about more and tougher lockdowns while the UK is announcing plans to open the country up again.

In your analogy the EU is the one acting like Trump. We, in the UK, can relate to Canada. At least Trump is gone now. We still have to deal with the EU acting like huge assholes.
 
2021-03-01 9:07:02 PM  

Bslim: She also wants to go to your house and start pushing you around! IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?


Forget it Jake, it's Canada.
 
2021-03-01 9:07:49 PM  
It's actually Prince Harry.
 
2021-03-01 9:08:09 PM  
All you need to know about Kelly McParland: He's a Leafs fan.
 
2021-03-01 9:08:30 PM  

tigerbot hesh: She's mad that the Tories aren't in charge so they can do what the UK Tories have done during COVID.  Namely, award massive contracts to incompetent friends for things like the vaccine rollout.  I do wish things were faster, but I'm not gonna hear about it from this lot.


Not true. The liberals tried with the WE foundation. Everyone caught on early and called them on it before the grift could get rolling
 
2021-03-01 9:09:11 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-01 9:09:20 PM  

tigerbot hesh: She's mad that the Tories aren't in charge so they can do what the UK Tories have done during COVID.  Namely, award massive contracts to incompetent friends for things like the vaccine rollout.  I do wish things were faster, but I'm not gonna hear about it from this lot.


Fark user imageView Full Size


If that is "fraud" then I'm reminded of Lincoln's comment about Grant being a drunk.
 
2021-03-01 9:09:35 PM  
The National Post is a Conservative rag that wants Trudeau to fail as a PM. Once you understand that, its content becomes easy to parse.
 
2021-03-01 9:15:40 PM  
Canada should look into some kind of nationalized health care.  That might speed things along.
 
2021-03-01 9:17:49 PM  

DOCTORD000M: [Fark user image image 425x516]


shiat's on fire, yo.
 
2021-03-01 9:29:50 PM  
This Conservative rag isn't worth lining a bird cage.

Brian Mulroney gutted our vaccine production yet the Conservatives would prefer to point fingers.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronav​i​rus/we-took-our-eye-off-the-ball-how-c​anada-lost-its-vaccine-production-capa​city-1.5204040

Yes, this happened a while ago and any government since could possibly have fixed the problem but let's not have a short memory here.
 
2021-03-01 9:30:08 PM  

starsrift: The National Post is a Conservative rag that wants Trudeau to fail as a PM. Once you understand that, its content becomes easy to parse.


This. The National Post is hot garbage, and the right-wing's attempt at infecting us.

Disregard.
 
2021-03-01 9:35:00 PM  
Canada's vaccination non-rollout is complete humanitarian disaster.

The current plan is to prioritize the very old (80+), then to vaccinate people based on which demographics are most likely to vote (formally: by descending age bracket) regardless of their risk profile. As a result, healthy 60 year olds who are able to self-isolate are going to get their vaccines months before 40 year old service workers who meet hundreds of people a day, and both of whom will get their vaccine shots at least six months before 18 year old immunosuppressed cancer patients will have their chance.

There has been a defacto government decision to sacrifice the lives of the chronically ill in favor of benefiting the demographics that more reliably turn up at the ballot box. This should be considered a crime against humanity.
 
2021-03-01 9:36:17 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: BumpInTheNight: Canada also spent the last four years with a gigantic asshole as a neighbor/major trade partner who's leader kept intentionally messing with the arrangements.  Something the EU could relate to ;)

The UK used it's new freedom from EU rules to do our own thing on vaccines and do a far far better job than the EU.
The EU argued among themselves, took months to place orders, then whined like babies when the UK did a far better job, threatened the entire Irish peace process by announcing border controls, after spending four years pretending to care so much about Ireland and telling the UK there must be no border controls, (with the Irish government finding out by seeing it on the news), threatening to block delivery of perfectly legal orders to the UK and literally steal our vaccines to use themselves, then rubbished the Oxford vaccine by claiming it wasn't as good, we'd taken shortcuts on approving it and it "didn't work on old people" leading to millions of Europeans now refusing to take it so the EU leaders are now having to furiously backtrack and beg their people to take the vaccine because they're falling further and further behind the UK in vaccinations.

It is EU countries now having to talk about more and tougher lockdowns while the UK is announcing plans to open the country up again.

In your analogy the EU is the one acting like Trump. We, in the UK, can relate to Canada. At least Trump is gone now. We still have to deal with the EU acting like huge assholes.


You know I write these things to annoy, its perfectly clear that the asshole in a divorce is the one that's leaving the other one behind with all the kids and shedding any responsibility.

Btw regarding rubbish vaccines I have an anecdote for you:  My grandmother-in-law is in home where a resident who is fully vaccinated and beyond the set-in time, and previously had covid, just caught a full-blown case of covid again and from the sounds of it will die from it.

I have this terrible feeling that trying to go for the vaccination percentage route ain't going to do much now that the mutations are propogating thanks to careless countries that let it go wild early on, its just a feel-good temporary reprieve.  This damn virus is relentless.
 
2021-03-01 9:37:44 PM  

WalkingSedgwick: Canada's vaccination non-rollout is complete humanitarian disaster.

The current plan is to prioritize the very old (80+), then to vaccinate people based on which demographics are most likely to vote (formally: by descending age bracket) regardless of their risk profile. As a result, healthy 60 year olds who are able to self-isolate are going to get their vaccines months before 40 year old service workers who meet hundreds of people a day, and both of whom will get their vaccine shots at least six months before 18 year old immunosuppressed cancer patients will have their chance.

There has been a defacto government decision to sacrifice the lives of the chronically ill in favor of benefiting the demographics that more reliably turn up at the ballot box. This should be considered a crime against humanity.


Which province are you in?
 
2021-03-01 9:39:13 PM  

foo monkey: Canada should look into some kind of nationalized health care.  That might speed things along.


For what it's worth, Obama reserved more money for vaccine infrastructure in spite of conservative complaints. It's because of this that there are vaccines. Trump trashed what he could but I guess overlooked this one.

Canada is different. They were on the fence as to investing and preparing for this, but ultimately a conservative government decided to save money. Liberals agreed. Not sure where the NDP was doing, but does anybody really know?

If Canada does one thing well it's leverage universities for medical research.  Its been wildly successful and is way cheaper than the US model, but funding usually comes from selling cookies and the girl scouts are very anti-competitive.
 
2021-03-01 9:40:07 PM  

WalkingSedgwick: Canada's vaccination non-rollout is complete humanitarian disaster.

The current plan is to prioritize the very old (80+), then to vaccinate people based on which demographics are most likely to vote (formally: by descending age bracket) regardless of their risk profile. As a result, healthy 60 year olds who are able to self-isolate are going to get their vaccines months before 40 year old service workers who meet hundreds of people a day, and both of whom will get their vaccine shots at least six months before 18 year old immunosuppressed cancer patients will have their chance.

There has been a defacto government decision to sacrifice the lives of the chronically ill in favor of benefiting the demographics that more reliably turn up at the ballot box. This should be considered a crime against humanity.


The prioritization is one thing, but the real problem is that Canada has paid for five times the vaccine we need and can't get one farking bit of it. It's an absolute shambles but there's nobody in Canada to blame for it.
 
2021-03-01 9:42:20 PM  

good_2_go: WalkingSedgwick: Canada's vaccination non-rollout is complete humanitarian disaster.

The current plan is to prioritize the very old (80+), then to vaccinate people based on which demographics are most likely to vote (formally: by descending age bracket) regardless of their risk profile. As a result, healthy 60 year olds who are able to self-isolate are going to get their vaccines months before 40 year old service workers who meet hundreds of people a day, and both of whom will get their vaccine shots at least six months before 18 year old immunosuppressed cancer patients will have their chance.

There has been a defacto government decision to sacrifice the lives of the chronically ill in favor of benefiting the demographics that more reliably turn up at the ballot box. This should be considered a crime against humanity.

Which province are you in?


BC.

The 'kill the chronically ill' policy was released today.
 
2021-03-01 9:47:39 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: And yet in the country where she actually lives...

[Fark user image 634x381]

Canada put a military man in charge? In the UK Boris put a businesswoman in charge of the vaccine purchase and told her to get a move on.

Canada has far fewer deaths than the UK so far, so maybe that has led to a lack of urgency? The UK is seeing plummeting new cases and deaths now and is looking forward to easing lockdown within weeks, as other European countries are talking about having to keep or even impose new lockdowns.


The UK made its numbers look good by delaying the second doses, far beyond the recommendations of the manufacturer. The result remains to be seen.
 
2021-03-01 9:54:13 PM  

starsrift: The National Post is a Conservative rag that wants Trudeau to fail as a PM. Once you understand that, its content becomes easy to parse.


Okay. Meanwhile the U.S has managed to administer enough doses to have nearly vaccinated the entire population of Canada completely and the UK has administered 20 million doses which is more than half of Canada's total population. Somebody has to take the blame and I'd bet that if the Conservatives were in power you'd be blaming them. Trudeau gets to own this one it might be the first thing he can't issue an apology for and then ignore.
 
2021-03-01 9:59:39 PM  

RTOGUY: starsrift: The National Post is a Conservative rag that wants Trudeau to fail as a PM. Once you understand that, its content becomes easy to parse.

Okay. Meanwhile the U.S has managed to administer enough doses to have nearly vaccinated the entire population of Canada completely and the UK has administered 20 million doses which is more than half of Canada's total population. Somebody has to take the blame and I'd bet that if the Conservatives were in power you'd be blaming them. Trudeau gets to own this one it might be the first thing he can't issue an apology for and then ignore.


You might be surprised at the amount of latitude I gave Harper and his men.
I still think they were doing a lot of the right things. Just too many of the wrong things as well.
 
2021-03-01 10:10:49 PM  

Stands With A Tiny Fist: Russ1642: I couldn't finish reading that but rest assured that whoever wrote it is a farking idiot.

National Post is a Conrad Black project. Pretty much all you need to know about the National Post, really.


Well ... you also need to know who Conrad Black is.
 
2021-03-01 10:13:14 PM  
didn't we fight a war to prevent this?
 
2021-03-01 10:20:04 PM  

BumpInTheNight: You know I write these things to annoy, its perfectly clear that the asshole in a divorce is the one that's leaving the other one behind with all the kids and shedding any responsibility.


What "responsibility" did the UK leave behind? Are you saying we should never have been allowed to leave? That leaving was intrinsically wrong?

So you're admitting they lied to us in the 70s when we joined and they said we'd still be sovereign, we could veto anything we didn't like etc?

Because your analogy of a marriage is clearly wrong. It is more like us agreeing to rent a room in a house with  a bunch of other people, and being told we would always bee able to leave any time we wanted, as long as we gave a months notice and paid the last months rent and utilities. Then, a few years later we say "Okay, we want to leave" and everyone else saying "How dare you! You assholes! Well you're going to have to pay us several years worth of rent to cover all our bills for the next few years, and we want to keep you under our house rules even in your new place, forever."

BumpInTheNight: Btw regarding rubbish vaccines I have an anecdote for you:  My grandmother-in-law is in home where a resident who is fully vaccinated and beyond the set-in time, and previously had covid, just caught a full-blown case of covid again and from the sounds of it will die from it.


Vaccines are not 100% effective. But everyone taking a vaccine that is 90/95% effective will cumulatively make a huge difference. The polio vaccine is not 100% effective, yet polio has been wiped out from Africa.
 
2021-03-01 10:22:11 PM  
oh who cares really
they could have taken ten years to find a vaccine but they didn't
so cool your jets

i'm pretty sure everybody is doing the best they  can
except for a few idiots, as usual

so let it be.

*

It's not like the Prime Minister just gave up on Covid and said "hey it's up to the provinces"
and then told Canadians "rebel against your oppressive provincial overlords!"
when the provinces tried to enforce health orders,

ending in the arrest of militia groups intent on
kidnapping the premier of Saskatchewan
in order to free us from the bonds
of public health


so we got THAT goin for us in Canada
amirite
 
2021-03-01 10:25:10 PM  

davynelson: oh who cares really
they could have taken ten years to find a vaccine but they didn't
so cool your jets

i'm pretty sure everybody is doing the best they  can
except for a few idiots, as usual

so let it be.

*

It's not like the Prime Minister just gave up on Covid and said "hey it's up to the provinces"
and then told Canadians "rebel against your oppressive provincial overlords!"
when the provinces tried to enforce health orders,

ending in the arrest of militia groups intent on
kidnapping the premier of Saskatchewan
in order to free us from the bonds
of public health


so we got THAT goin for us in Canada
amirite


No. We *have* to find blame ,and create political unrest so maybe we can have enough *harumphing* so we can trigger another lovely election.
 
2021-03-01 10:26:02 PM  
Ok, the article is garbage.. That said, our plan for vacinnes was doomed from the start. I have not agreed with much if anything that Trump did but taking care of the US first with vacinnes is not something I can argue with. Same with the EU slowing deliveries to Canada.

Our mistake; which Trudeau does own, is not co-investing in the UK vaccine program in the beginning and setting up/investing in Canadian production. Relative to the total Covid bailouts and support payments this would have been minimal.  We have made our bed.
 
2021-03-01 10:30:20 PM  

RunawayCanuck: For what it's worth, Obama reserved more money for vaccine infrastructure in spite of conservative complaints. It's because of this that there are vaccines. Trump trashed what he could but I guess overlooked this one.

Canada is different. They were on the fence as to investing and preparing for this, but ultimately a conservative government decided to save money. Liberals agreed. Not sure where the NDP was doing, but does anybody really know?


In the UK under a Conservative government two years ago a huge new vaccine production factory was planned and funded. It was due to open next year but extra funding announced from the government will bring it forward to this year.
 
2021-03-01 10:33:58 PM  
Canada's official self-image and public world image are very different from Canada's actual reality.  At least to anyone that goes outside regularly.  I hope we get things in gear soon.

TFA is trollish but she does touch upon some real things.  Canadian political leadership generally just apes whatever the UK and US are doing.  Canada is a geographical side-effect of earlier conflict between those two powers, after all.  We have no military muscle like the Americans, we have no historical mentor cred like the Brits.  We just have lots of disparate provinces that don't care about each other.  The vaccine rollout is going to suffer accordingly.

I hope the right people can pull their heads out of their asses and get things moving properly.
 
2021-03-01 10:37:23 PM  
If someone told the queen to put her money where her mouth is, she'd be eating herself out.
 
2021-03-01 10:37:51 PM  

Rev Rick White: This Conservative rag isn't worth lining a bird cage.

Brian Mulroney gutted our vaccine production yet the Conservatives would prefer to point fingers.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavi​rus/we-took-our-eye-off-the-ball-how-c​anada-lost-its-vaccine-production-capa​city-1.5204040

Yes, this happened a while ago and any government since could possibly have fixed the problem but let's not have a short memory here.


Mulroney has been out of power for nearly 30 years, surely Chretien, and Martin, with a period of Harper to act as a pause then 4 plus years of Trudeau were enough to fix this wrong?
 
2021-03-01 10:39:53 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: What "responsibility" did the UK leave behind?

So you're admitting they lied to us in the 70s when we joined and they said we'd still be sovereign, we could veto anything we didn't like etc?


Again, let me remind you, I am typing these things to annoy you, because arguing with you is more of a sport then an actual debate.  The "So you admit that..." attempts at mouth-stuffing conjecture is an example of why it can only be a sport rather then a real meeting of minds, especially over the intentions regarding the initial drafts of an arrangement carried out during a time which neither of us I imagine were born yet.

Mommy England divorced daddy Germany and left it and the kids behind.  These two countries were clearly the backbones of the family.  And one of them ran away.
 
2021-03-01 10:41:12 PM  

Tillmaster: Carter Pewterschmidt: And yet in the country where she actually lives...

[Fark user image 634x381]

Canada put a military man in charge? In the UK Boris put a businesswoman in charge of the vaccine purchase and told her to get a move on.

Canada has far fewer deaths than the UK so far, so maybe that has led to a lack of urgency? The UK is seeing plummeting new cases and deaths now and is looking forward to easing lockdown within weeks, as other European countries are talking about having to keep or even impose new lockdowns.

The UK made its numbers look good by delaying the second doses, far beyond the recommendations of the manufacturer. The result remains to be seen.


The results already in suggest that that plan is working extremely well, with cases and hospitalisations falling dramatically. The WHO has also said the UK plan worked very well.
This is why we're planning to lift lockdown restrictions while other European countries are talking about keeping lockdown or even imposing tougher lockdowns.
 
2021-03-01 10:44:37 PM  

Russ1642: I couldn't finish reading that but rest assured that whoever wrote it is a farking idiot.


It's the Nazi Post, 2/3 owned by Charter Communications, a US organisation that has a very close relationship with the Mercer family.
They employ Conrad (Convicted fraud and criminal/ Pardoned by D2S) Black as an opinion writer FFS.
 
2021-03-01 10:48:08 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Vaccines are not 100% effective. But everyone taking a vaccine that is 90/95% effective will cumulatively make a huge difference. The polio vaccine is not 100% effective, yet polio has been wiped out from Africa.


Oh right and btw agreed here, vaccines are a net positive for sure no matter what.  I'm just getting this terrible feeling that we're in for more of a 'why does no one ever find the cure for the common cold' scenario where now that this thing has gotten a chance to propagate and mutate so much there's no effective way to anticipate its next form and we'll be stuck in this masked-up dystopia for a very long time.  Farking sucks.
 
2021-03-01 10:49:16 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Carter Pewterschmidt: What "responsibility" did the UK leave behind?

So you're admitting they lied to us in the 70s when we joined and they said we'd still be sovereign, we could veto anything we didn't like etc?

Again, let me remind you, I am typing these things to annoy you, because arguing with you is more of a sport then an actual debate.  The "So you admit that..." attempts at mouth-stuffing conjecture is an example of why it can only be a sport rather then a real meeting of minds, especially over the intentions regarding the initial drafts of an arrangement carried out during a time which neither of us I imagine were born yet.

Mommy England divorced daddy Germany and left it and the kids behind.  These two countries were clearly the backbones of the family.  And one of them ran away.


So you make a claim, I ask a serious question and because you can't answer it you can only resort to meaningless platitudes?

I think I have made my case. When we joined the Common Market we were never told we'd be "responsible" for a bunch of other countries. France even vetoed our joining several times. They can't exactly complain about us leaving when they refused to let us join in the first place.

What you seem to be saying is the UK is so big and powerful that we and Germany kept the EU going, and without us the EU will fall apart. That's not the narrative that Farkers have been saying for the last five years. They've been saying we're tiny and insignificant, that we're the ones who can't survive outside the EU, that the EU is big and powerful and won't miss us etc.

Now you're saying we have an obligation to support all those smaller countries like some absentee father?
 
2021-03-01 10:50:15 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: The results already in suggest that that plan is working extremely well, with cases and hospitalisations falling dramatically. The WHO has also said the UK plan worked very well.


It's hard to credit Boris with the worst as well as the best repsonse. He owns the worst response. As for the improved response, maybe the improvement is almost entirely the result of Northern Ireland and Scotland bringing their strongest Oppositions to Westminster and forcing the Tories to give up control of the vaccine rollout to people who are competent. I can't imagine Boris succeeding without Nicola Sturgeon slapping the controls out of his hands and giving them to the right people.
 
2021-03-01 10:52:49 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: I think I have made my case. When we joined the Common Market we were never told we'd be "responsible" for a bunch of other countries. France even vetoed our joining several times. They can't exactly complain about us leaving when they refused to let us join in the first place.


The BBC told you via fantastic episode of Yes Minister based on political realism of the time.
 
2021-03-01 10:56:17 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Carter Pewterschmidt: Vaccines are not 100% effective. But everyone taking a vaccine that is 90/95% effective will cumulatively make a huge difference. The polio vaccine is not 100% effective, yet polio has been wiped out from Africa.

Oh right and btw agreed here, vaccines are a net positive for sure no matter what.  I'm just getting this terrible feeling that we're in for more of a 'why does no one ever find the cure for the common cold' scenario where now that this thing has gotten a chance to propagate and mutate so much there's no effective way to anticipate its next form and we'll be stuck in this masked-up dystopia for a very long time.  Farking sucks.


The ordinary flu mutates constantly and killed twenty thousand people every year in the UK, and has done for years. We presumably considered that acceptable, because we lived with it. The papers didn't publish huge front page flu daily deaths figures every day. Cancer kills 160k every year, heart attacks 50k and so on.
With covid I can see it becoming the same size of threat as flu, maybe far less considering the publicity and the drive to vaccinations. I can see everyone getting a yearly or bi yearly vaccination as routine, something that never really happened with the flu.
We'll get used to it. Sounds harsh, but it will happen.
 
2021-03-01 10:56:37 PM  

keoghd: Our mistake; which Trudeau does own, is not co-investing in the UK vaccine program in the beginning and setting up/investing in Canadian production.


Wasn't one of the issues that the pharmaceutical extortionists refused to allow the vaccines to be manufactured in Canada unless the industry was exempted from paying taxes?

No western government has the guts to appropriately respond to that kind of thing anymore.
 
2021-03-01 10:57:46 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Carter Pewterschmidt: Vaccines are not 100% effective. But everyone taking a vaccine that is 90/95% effective will cumulatively make a huge difference. The polio vaccine is not 100% effective, yet polio has been wiped out from Africa.

Oh right and btw agreed here, vaccines are a net positive for sure no matter what.  I'm just getting this terrible feeling that we're in for more of a 'why does no one ever find the cure for the common cold' scenario where now that this thing has gotten a chance to propagate and mutate so much there's no effective way to anticipate its next form and we'll be stuck in this masked-up dystopia for a very long time.  Farking sucks.


I get 2 colds a year, I haven't had one, Flu deaths this year apparently don't exist, and the corona virus is apparently closely related to the bog standard cold viruses. There is a good likelihood that the research into Corona might yield an annual vaccine effective against both.
I have lost 3 good friends to this shiat, and parents of a couple of others.
Any way we slice things, we are stuck with this for a while, and I agree it sucks, but the alternative reaaalllly sucks.
 
2021-03-01 10:59:43 PM  

WalkingSedgwick: keoghd: Our mistake; which Trudeau does own, is not co-investing in the UK vaccine program in the beginning and setting up/investing in Canadian production.

Wasn't one of the issues that the pharmaceutical extortionists refused to allow the vaccines to be manufactured in Canada unless the industry was exempted from paying taxes?

No western government has the guts to appropriately respond to that kind of thing anymore.


Bulroney and Harper sold it all, including the patents, off decades ago and shut down our production facilities.
 
2021-03-01 11:04:38 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: Carter Pewterschmidt: The results already in suggest that that plan is working extremely well, with cases and hospitalisations falling dramatically. The WHO has also said the UK plan worked very well.

It's hard to credit Boris with the worst as well as the best repsonse. He owns the worst response. As for the improved response, maybe the improvement is almost entirely the result of Northern Ireland and Scotland bringing their strongest Oppositions to Westminster and forcing the Tories to give up control of the vaccine rollout to people who are competent. I can't imagine Boris succeeding without Nicola Sturgeon slapping the controls out of his hands and giving them to the right people.


Scottish vaccination rollout actually lagged behind England...

The vaccine success is because Boris put a businesswoman from the pharma industry in charge of vaccine procurement and told her to do whatever it takes. A decision that was hugely criticised at the time. And before for daring to leave the EU.

And the Tories have a big majority in Parliament. The SNP can't force them to do squat. Right now they're more concerned with their current and former leaders arguing in court and whether Sturgeon will have to resign.

What you wrote is almost exactly the precise opposite of the truth in literally every possible way. Even by Fark standards that is some achievement.
 
2021-03-01 11:07:57 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: Carter Pewterschmidt: I think I have made my case. When we joined the Common Market we were never told we'd be "responsible" for a bunch of other countries. France even vetoed our joining several times. They can't exactly complain about us leaving when they refused to let us join in the first place.

The BBC told you via fantastic episode of Yes Minister based on political realism of the time.


Actually a lot of my opinions on the EU come from people like Michael Foot...


and Tony Benn....
Tony Benn 1975 European Communities debate highlights
Youtube YI6mzHkx3xA
 
2021-03-01 11:12:20 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: What you wrote is almost exactly the precise opposite of the truth in literally every possible way. Even by Fark standards that is some achievement.


If you say so, but I think the parliamentary majority for the Tories is what give Sturgeon so much real power. Scotland is super duper angry about Brexit. And the Irish Question has the Tories trapped in a series of paradoxes they cannot untangle.

Carter Pewterschmidt: Actually a lot of my opinions on the EU come from people like Michael Foot...


Interesting.
 
2021-03-01 11:22:09 PM  

Dknsvsbl: WalkingSedgwick: keoghd: Our mistake; which Trudeau does own, is not co-investing in the UK vaccine program in the beginning and setting up/investing in Canadian production.

Bulroney and Harper sold it all, including the patents, off decades ago and shut down our production facilities.


My family in Alberta will throw Trudeau under the bus for anything. They honestly can't stand him.  But when I listen to them, especially my brother, the complaints they blame him on are the same things I experienced 20 years ago when I bailed.

All the political parties are crap, just like in the US, and probably for the same reasons. In this case I believe root cause comes down to Canada's culture of focusing on a subset of strengths decided by the provinces. The US being 10 times the size can diversify and fund much easier and in this case got lucky.
 
2021-03-01 11:23:44 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: The ordinary flu mutates constantly and killed twenty thousand people every year in the UK, and has done for years. We presumably considered that acceptable, because we lived with it. The papers didn't publish huge front page flu daily deaths figures every day. Cancer kills 160k every year, heart attacks 50k and so on.
With covid I can see it becoming the same size of threat as flu, maybe far less considering the publicity and the drive to vaccinations. I can see everyone getting a yearly or bi yearly vaccination as routine, something that never really happened with the flu.
We'll get used to it. Sounds harsh, but it will happen.



I sincerely hope its mortality rate gets reduced to far below what the flu viruses claim and more, hoping its appearance bolsters a serious push to research the eradication of viruses of this type.  I don't think the world population will ever truly get used to masks-on being the norm, we're tolerating it now for the temporary greater good but long term this would screw with us badly.  This one needs a unified attention and response, which is easier to do when we're all working together.  This one managed to nail 130K UK residents in one year, millions world-wide, far more then a typical coronavirus like the cold claims.  Its significant, its changed the game.

Brexit crap - its clear you came here to post about how England is definitely posting very good numbers for vaccination rates and congrats to your dear beloved Boris for pulling that off even in the face of an ugly divorce from his country's estranged family.  Its 11:30pm here and I'm guessing 4:30am where you are, I'm signing off.
 
2021-03-01 11:25:01 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: If you say so


And the links I provided said so as well. Did you read them?

Bennie Crabtree: but I think the parliamentary majority for the Tories is what give Sturgeon so much real power.


Fark user imageView Full Size


Bennie Crabtree: Scotland is super duper angry about Brexit.


Scots get angry and the sun rising in the morning.

Bennie Crabtree: And the Irish Question has the Tories trapped in a series of paradoxes they cannot untangle.


At least it wasn't the Tories who threatened to impose border controls in Ireland without consulting the Irish government, before changing their minds hours later after everyone, literally everyone, called them idiots. That was the EU who did that.

Bennie Crabtree: Interesting.


So no comment? Do you disagree with what they said? If so, why?
 
2021-03-01 11:32:05 PM  
I'm probably not going to get the dam shot till the end of the year. I am a 57 year old with a lot of health issues. My son is in worse shape then me, he has more issues then me.
 
2021-03-01 11:32:20 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Brexit crap - its clear you came here to post about how England is definitely posting very good numbers for vaccination rates and congrats to your dear beloved Boris for pulling that off even in the face of an ugly divorce from his country's estranged family.  Its 11:30pm here and I'm guessing 4:30am where you are, I'm signing off.


The headline, and TFA, blamed the Queen, or at least implied it was some sort of hangover from British rule. Pointing out that the UK has actually done very well, including managing to get deliveries of foreign made vaccines very quickly as well as UK made vaccines, is relevant.

And again, how is Brexit a divorce? Farkers seem to swing wildly between claiming the UK hasn't lost sovereignty, is still independent, can still make its own laws etc and therefore has no reason to leave and then when it suits them claim we were fully part of the EU and leaving is "an ugly divorce".

So which is it? If it's an ugly divorce then clearly we did lose independence and sovereignty, right? And so leaving was justified.

And yeah, it's half four in the morning here. I keep funny hours.
 
2021-03-01 11:32:31 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Bennie Crabtree: If you say so

And the links I provided said so as well. Did you read them?

Bennie Crabtree: but I think the parliamentary majority for the Tories is what give Sturgeon so much real power.

[Fark user image 800x600]

Bennie Crabtree: Scotland is super duper angry about Brexit.



Dude, I am from Canada. I know that majorities in a aprliament do not reduce the real power of separatistes. They wield a lot of sway over majority governments, that minority governments can manage thorugh coalitions.
 
2021-03-01 11:39:17 PM  

Dknsvsbl: WalkingSedgwick: keoghd: Our mistake; which Trudeau does own, is not co-investing in the UK vaccine program in the beginning and setting up/investing in Canadian production.

Wasn't one of the issues that the pharmaceutical extortionists refused to allow the vaccines to be manufactured in Canada unless the industry was exempted from paying taxes?

No western government has the guts to appropriately respond to that kind of thing anymore.

Bulroney and Harper sold it all, including the patents, off decades ago and shut down our production facilities.


You can start the blame with Trudeau Sr basically trashing pharmaceutical patents that got the private investment level to basically zero but did give us a bustling generics industry. Every government after that did their part towards further privatization or neglect no one government is entirely to blame including the 10 years of the Liberal Chretien government in-between Mulroney and Harper you seemed to leave out it's been a long slow process to get here.
 
2021-03-01 11:49:15 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Canada put a military man in charge? In the UK Boris put a businesswoman in charge of the vaccine purchase and told her to get a move on.


It is really surprising that Johnson's government managed to do something right.

Quite a refreshing change, really.
 
2021-03-02 12:12:11 AM  

starsrift: The prioritization is one thing, but the real problem is that Canada has paid for five times the vaccine we need and can't get one farking bit of it. It's an absolute shambles but there's nobody in Canada to blame for it.


There's plenty of people to blame for the failure to confiscate vaccine patents, without compensation, to enable local production and to criminally charge pharmaceutical executives with manslaughter for refusing to honor their contracts with the Canadian government.
 
2021-03-02 12:14:13 AM  

Bennie Crabtree: Dude, I am from Canada. I know that majorities in a aprliament do not reduce the real power of separatistes. They wield a lot of sway over majority governments, that minority governments can manage thorugh coalitions.


Boris has a huge majority. If every other party ganged together Boris would still have an 80 vote majority. In Westminster the SNP has zero power.

Back in July the SNP was demanding we join the EU vaccine scheme and abandon our own procurement plans. The very plans that have turned out to be such a success.

Health critics hit out at the UK's decision stating that the battle against Covid-19 called for global unity.
The SNP's Shadow Brexit Secretary Dr Philippa Whitford MP said: "At a time when the UK should be accelerating efforts to work with our EU partners towards finding a vaccine, it is concerning that the UK government has instead rejected the opportunity to take part in yet another EU-wide programme.
"The UK government's short-sighted and increasingly isolationist approach does nothing but hinder the ability to tackle the virus effectively
.

And what did Boris do? Totally ignored them. And thanks to that decision the UK got vaccines way way earlier and is way ahead of every EU country, and the US and Canada, in vaccines.

Had we listened to the SNP, as you claim we should have, or that bizarrely we actually did do and they somehow deserve the credit, we'd have been millions of vaccinations behind where we are now.

You tried to credit the SNP for the UKs vaccine success. It was actually the Tories ignoring the SNP and the rest that is why we're so far ahead over almost everyone else. (I think the Israelis are doing better)
 
2021-03-02 12:17:51 AM  

iron de havilland: Carter Pewterschmidt: Canada put a military man in charge? In the UK Boris put a businesswoman in charge of the vaccine purchase and told her to get a move on.

It is really surprising that Johnson's government managed to do something right.

Quite a refreshing change, really.


Only to people like you, who chose to ignore facts like it was the Tories that started the Irish peace process and did most of the work. Or that you tried to blame the Conservative government in Westminster for the poor service you get from the NHS in Scotland, when that is run by the SNP.

In a few years you'll be trying to retcon this vaccine as somehow the Tories screwed up and it was the wonderful EU vaccines that saved us etc. It's just what you do.
 
2021-03-02 12:33:56 AM  

BumpInTheNight: /and yah Canada has literally 1/3 per million covid deaths as the US and the UK so over all while its bad, its definitely not as bad as those two crap-hole countries let things get.


Canada population density:  4 people per square km.
UK population density: 275 people per square km

/*shrug*
 
2021-03-02 12:35:04 AM  

WalkingSedgwick: Canada's vaccination non-rollout is complete humanitarian disaster.

The current plan is to prioritize the very old (80+), then to vaccinate people based on which demographics are most likely to vote (formally: by descending age bracket) regardless of their risk profile. As a result, healthy 60 year olds who are able to self-isolate are going to get their vaccines months before 40 year old service workers who meet hundreds of people a day, and both of whom will get their vaccine shots at least six months before 18 year old immunosuppressed cancer patients will have their chance.

There has been a defacto government decision to sacrifice the lives of the chronically ill in favor of benefiting the demographics that more reliably turn up at the ballot box. This should be considered a crime against humanity.


i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2021-03-02 1:16:22 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: BumpInTheNight: Carter Pewterschmidt: Vaccines are not 100% effective. But everyone taking a vaccine that is 90/95% effective will cumulatively make a huge difference. The polio vaccine is not 100% effective, yet polio has been wiped out from Africa.

Oh right and btw agreed here, vaccines are a net positive for sure no matter what.  I'm just getting this terrible feeling that we're in for more of a 'why does no one ever find the cure for the common cold' scenario where now that this thing has gotten a chance to propagate and mutate so much there's no effective way to anticipate its next form and we'll be stuck in this masked-up dystopia for a very long time.  Farking sucks.

The ordinary flu mutates constantly and killed twenty thousand people every year in the UK, and has done for years. We presumably considered that acceptable, because we lived with it. The papers didn't publish huge front page flu daily deaths figures every day. Cancer kills 160k every year, heart attacks 50k and so on.
With covid I can see it becoming the same size of threat as flu, maybe far less considering the publicity and the drive to vaccinations. I can see everyone getting a yearly or bi yearly vaccination as routine, something that never really happened with the flu.
We'll get used to it. Sounds harsh, but it will happen.


I was about to challenge that 20k annual flu number just based on the fact that I know the US is typically around 30k and has 5x the population, but you're right.  Today I learned that the UK historically has 3x the annual per capita flu deaths of the US.  Weird.
 
2021-03-02 1:23:49 AM  

johnny_vegas: BumpInTheNight: /and yah Canada has literally 1/3 per million covid deaths as the US and the UK so over all while its bad, its definitely not as bad as those two crap-hole countries let things get.

Canada population density:  4 people per square km.
UK population density: 275 people per square km

/*shrug*


There's average density and then there's distribution.

If you think Canada's population is distributed at all evenly, I have some swampland in northern Manitoba you should buy.
 
2021-03-02 1:25:52 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: EU acting like huge assholes.


Speaking of assholes ...
 
2021-03-02 2:25:05 AM  

WalkingSedgwick: good_2_go: WalkingSedgwick: Canada's vaccination non-rollout is complete humanitarian disaster.

The current plan is to prioritize the very old (80+), then to vaccinate people based on which demographics are most likely to vote (formally: by descending age bracket) regardless of their risk profile. As a result, healthy 60 year olds who are able to self-isolate are going to get their vaccines months before 40 year old service workers who meet hundreds of people a day, and both of whom will get their vaccine shots at least six months before 18 year old immunosuppressed cancer patients will have their chance.

There has been a defacto government decision to sacrifice the lives of the chronically ill in favor of benefiting the demographics that more reliably turn up at the ballot box. This should be considered a crime against humanity.

Which province are you in?

BC.

The 'kill the chronically ill' policy was released today.


That's really terrible. I work in a psychiatric hospital, and I already got vaccinated. We are also vaccinating Chronicle psychiatric patients, and if they don't have other health conditions. But to be fair people with schizophrenia are one of the most likely groups to die from

Definitely not a killed the sick policy
 
2021-03-02 2:34:28 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: iron de havilland: Carter Pewterschmidt: Canada put a military man in charge? In the UK Boris put a businesswoman in charge of the vaccine purchase and told her to get a move on.

It is really surprising that Johnson's government managed to do something right.

Quite a refreshing change, really.

Only to people like you, who chose to ignore facts like it was the Tories that started the Irish peace process and did most of the work. Or that you tried to blame the Conservative government in Westminster for the poor service you get from the NHS in Scotland, when that is run by the SNP.

In a few years you'll be trying to retcon this vaccine as somehow the Tories screwed up and it was the wonderful EU vaccines that saved us etc. It's just what you do.


I'm just going to say, I feel like after your 15th long post the same, it might be time to settle down a little bit. Especially when every single one of those posts has an argument with someone else
 
2021-03-02 2:35:41 AM  

chawco: WalkingSedgwick: good_2_go: WalkingSedgwick: Canada's vaccination non-rollout is complete humanitarian disaster.

The current plan is to prioritize the very old (80+), then to vaccinate people based on which demographics are most likely to vote (formally: by descending age bracket) regardless of their risk profile. As a result, healthy 60 year olds who are able to self-isolate are going to get their vaccines months before 40 year old service workers who meet hundreds of people a day, and both of whom will get their vaccine shots at least six months before 18 year old immunosuppressed cancer patients will have their chance.

There has been a defacto government decision to sacrifice the lives of the chronically ill in favor of benefiting the demographics that more reliably turn up at the ballot box. This should be considered a crime against humanity.

Which province are you in?

BC.

The 'kill the chronically ill' policy was released today.

That's really terrible. I work in a psychiatric hospital, and I already got vaccinated. We are also vaccinating Chronicle psychiatric patients, and if they don't have other health conditions. But to be fair people with schizophrenia are one of the most likely groups to die from

Definitely not a killed the sick policy


Forgot to mention, in Ontario. And it's not like we have a competent government here. In fact, I think the main reason that everybody in the hospital got vaccinated is because they're just not set up to do it for anybody else oh, so they're trying to get the numbers through though hanging fruit, like people working anywhere near or around a hospital
 
2021-03-02 3:49:53 AM  

chawco: That's really terrible. I work in a psychiatric hospital, and I already got vaccinated. We are also vaccinating Chronicle psychiatric patients, and if they don't have other health conditions. But to be fair people with schizophrenia are one of the most likely groups to die from

Definitely not a killed the sick policy


Even BC has graciously given priority to people living in long-term care and in inpatient facilities. It's 'just' people who are chronically ill but are well enough to live independently who are being told to FOAD.

IIRC, BC's per capita infection and death rate is higher than Ontario's. The BC COVID response has nearly no redeeming qualities.
 
2021-03-02 3:56:50 AM  

moto-geek: [i.kym-cdn.com image 750x600]


Do you really want to argue that it's more ethically sound to protect healthy 50 year olds from SARS-CoV-2 infections, that will most likely knock them on their asses for a few weeks, than it is to protect 25 year old cystic fibrosis/type-1 diabetes/cancer/etc patients who will almost certainly develop a severe case of death should they be exposed?
 
2021-03-02 4:44:21 AM  

towatchoverme: johnny_vegas: BumpInTheNight: /and yah Canada has literally 1/3 per million covid deaths as the US and the UK so over all while its bad, its definitely not as bad as those two crap-hole countries let things get.

Canada population density:  4 people per square km.
UK population density: 275 people per square km

/*shrug*

There's average density and then there's distribution.

If you think Canada's population is distributed at all evenly, I have some swampland in northern Manitoba you should buy.


Then look at city population density
/or don't
 
2021-03-02 5:01:43 AM  

WalkingSedgwick: Canada's vaccination non-rollout is complete humanitarian disaster.

The current plan is to prioritize the very old (80+), then to vaccinate people based on which demographics are most likely to vote (formally: by descending age bracket) regardless of their risk profile. As a result, healthy 60 year olds who are able to self-isolate are going to get their vaccines months before 40 year old service workers who meet hundreds of people a day, and both of whom will get their vaccine shots at least six months before 18 year old immunosuppressed cancer patients will have their chance.

There has been a defacto government decision to sacrifice the lives of the chronically ill in favor of benefiting the demographics that more reliably turn up at the ballot box. This should be considered a crime against humanity.


so apparently you haven't actually been paying attention to the vaccine rollout beyond a few headlines.  Let me inject some knowledge in ya:
1. The vaccination rollouts are handled by each province separately.   What's true for your province may not be true for others.
2. Canada has almost no (if any) facilities to manufacture vaccines.  Therefore all vaccines used in Canada come from 1 or more other countries.  This might be important.   That is likely sarcasm.
3. There was no previous issue with this pre-pandemic, because there was manufacturing capacity to spare in both the US and Europe.
4.  Trump declared, and Biden agrees that no vaccines manufactured in the US will be available for international distribution until after all Americans (in the US) are fully vaccinated.  Contracts can be settled afterwards, feel free to fight them in court.
5. Therefore all vaccines entering Canada are manufactured in the EU.
6.  The EU is/was having their own manufacturing capacity issues and had to take some plants temporarily offline to upgrade them to increase capacity.   Hence the 2 weeks where no vaccines were received.
7.  Even still, the EU plants are at capacity trying to fill all of the orders.   Therefore things are progressing slower than expected.
8. There has already been discussion about building manufacturing plants in Canada.  If passed and followed through, they should online and ready in time for the next pandemic.

/There.  Read and feel the learnin
 
2021-03-02 5:31:26 AM  

Russ1642: I couldn't finish reading that but rest assured that whoever wrote it is a farking idiot.


Same. Coming from the National Post,it was already suspect. Basically, its the T.O. Sun without the Sunshine Girl and the sports section.
 
2021-03-02 5:47:15 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: tigerbot hesh: She's mad that the Tories aren't in charge so they can do what the UK Tories have done during COVID.  Namely, award massive contracts to incompetent friends for things like the vaccine rollout.  I do wish things were faster, but I'm not gonna hear about it from this lot.

[Fark user image 634x441]

If that is "fraud" then I'm reminded of Lincoln's comment about Grant being a drunk.


The vaccine roll-out is being handled by the NHS (hospitals, local doctors' surgeries and 'nightingale vaccination centres', plus commercial pharmacies, which are also tightly integrated with the NHS. That's why it's working.

Meanwhile track & trace, PPE provision, intial ventilator provision, etc. were corrupt shiatshows.

The Tories are shamelessly accepting praise for things they are not responsible for.

The *only* thing they did right - and I'm glad they did - was buy vaccines from *everyone* speculatively right at the start, putting us at the front of the queue for a rollout - but I suspect even that was based on the motive 'lets use taxpayer money to get businesses back on their feet asap' rather than any compassion for actual people.
 
2021-03-02 6:09:32 AM  

starsrift: The National Post is a Conservative rag that wants Trudeau to fail as a PM. Once you understand that, its content becomes easy to parse.


Not to mention that distribution and administration of vaccines in Canada is done in the following order, by various governmental entities.

Procurement - federal
Approval - federal
Distribution of bulk doses - federal, military
Organizing vaccine drives - provincial
Organizing vulnerable groups - municipal health districts, churches, doctors and even hair stylists (as per Ontario's presser last week)
Delivering doses to patients - local health units and TBD

Not mentioned - scheduling software and inter-governmental cooperation.

That means in Ontario alone, there is 34 answers and depending on where you live, you may be contacted, or not.

We aren't doing things like a first world nation and a leader in technology should. In fact, all we have is a contract for doses and a bunch of grown adults finger pointing at one another telling 'NO U' and taking no accountability or appropriate action.

I am happy to take the back of the back of the line for this. I don't trust I'd receive two doses of the same vaccine where I live currently. Note, I am not doubting science, just the people who take the scientific product and 'administer' it. Vaccines are important part of any sufficiently advanced society and should be mandatory to all.
 
2021-03-02 6:22:30 AM  

RTOGUY: Dknsvsbl: WalkingSedgwick: keoghd: Our mistake; which Trudeau does own, is not co-investing in the UK vaccine program in the beginning and setting up/investing in Canadian production.

Wasn't one of the issues that the pharmaceutical extortionists refused to allow the vaccines to be manufactured in Canada unless the industry was exempted from paying taxes?

No western government has the guts to appropriately respond to that kind of thing anymore.

Bulroney and Harper sold it all, including the patents, off decades ago and shut down our production facilities.

You can start the blame with Trudeau Sr basically trashing pharmaceutical patents that got the private investment level to basically zero but did give us a bustling generics industry. Every government after that did their part towards further privatization or neglect no one government is entirely to blame including the 10 years of the Liberal Chretien government in-between Mulroney and Harper you seemed to leave out it's been a long slow process to get here.


Conversely, we could stop having a low-brow hate-on for individuals that served in the government and discuss issues without attention on personnel.

However, that would actually let us fix things, and I have been assured that in Canada you can't do that. We slander first, then smother it in insults and when we tire, we grab a beer, pass out and start the process over again. I see the same personnel in thread after thread doing nothing but spreading divisiveness and taking us further afield from any real solution.

Way to focus on what's really important.
 
2021-03-02 6:26:51 AM  

Algebrat: Carter Pewterschmidt: BumpInTheNight: Carter Pewterschmidt: Vaccines are not 100% effective. But everyone taking a vaccine that is 90/95% effective will cumulatively make a huge difference. The polio vaccine is not 100% effective, yet polio has been wiped out from Africa.

Oh right and btw agreed here, vaccines are a net positive for sure no matter what.  I'm just getting this terrible feeling that we're in for more of a 'why does no one ever find the cure for the common cold' scenario where now that this thing has gotten a chance to propagate and mutate so much there's no effective way to anticipate its next form and we'll be stuck in this masked-up dystopia for a very long time.  Farking sucks.

The ordinary flu mutates constantly and killed twenty thousand people every year in the UK, and has done for years. We presumably considered that acceptable, because we lived with it. The papers didn't publish huge front page flu daily deaths figures every day. Cancer kills 160k every year, heart attacks 50k and so on.
With covid I can see it becoming the same size of threat as flu, maybe far less considering the publicity and the drive to vaccinations. I can see everyone getting a yearly or bi yearly vaccination as routine, something that never really happened with the flu.
We'll get used to it. Sounds harsh, but it will happen.

I was about to challenge that 20k annual flu number just based on the fact that I know the US is typically around 30k and has 5x the population, but you're right.  Today I learned that the UK historically has 3x the annual per capita flu deaths of the US.  Weird.


I looked at the the spreadsheet provided by the UK government on causes of death.  Flu has been swinging between 13K and 15K deaths per year since at least 2001.  That is significantly lower than 20K
 
2021-03-02 6:28:25 AM  

marsoft: Algebrat: Carter Pewterschmidt: BumpInTheNight: Carter Pewterschmidt: Vaccines are not 100% effective. But everyone taking a vaccine that is 90/95% effective will cumulatively make a huge difference. The polio vaccine is not 100% effective, yet polio has been wiped out from Africa.

Oh right and btw agreed here, vaccines are a net positive for sure no matter what.  I'm just getting this terrible feeling that we're in for more of a 'why does no one ever find the cure for the common cold' scenario where now that this thing has gotten a chance to propagate and mutate so much there's no effective way to anticipate its next form and we'll be stuck in this masked-up dystopia for a very long time.  Farking sucks.

The ordinary flu mutates constantly and killed twenty thousand people every year in the UK, and has done for years. We presumably considered that acceptable, because we lived with it. The papers didn't publish huge front page flu daily deaths figures every day. Cancer kills 160k every year, heart attacks 50k and so on.
With covid I can see it becoming the same size of threat as flu, maybe far less considering the publicity and the drive to vaccinations. I can see everyone getting a yearly or bi yearly vaccination as routine, something that never really happened with the flu.
We'll get used to it. Sounds harsh, but it will happen.

I was about to challenge that 20k annual flu number just based on the fact that I know the US is typically around 30k and has 5x the population, but you're right.  Today I learned that the UK historically has 3x the annual per capita flu deaths of the US.  Weird.

I looked at the the spreadsheet provided by the UK government on causes of death.  Flu has been swinging between 13K and 15K deaths per year since at least 2001.  That is significantly lower than 20K


Look at table 5 in the spreadsheet on this page. https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri​=/peopl​epopulationandcommunity/healthandsocia​lcare/causesofdeath/datasets/leadingca​usesofdeathuk/2001to2018/referencetabl​e.xlsx
 
2021-03-02 6:35:39 AM  

SMB2811: Stands With A Tiny Fist: Russ1642: I couldn't finish reading that but rest assured that whoever wrote it is a farking idiot.

National Post is a Conrad Black project. Pretty much all you need to know about the National Post, really.

Well ... you also need to know who Conrad Black is.


Think Rupert Murdoch, only snootier.
 
2021-03-02 6:40:38 AM  

johnny_vegas: BumpInTheNight: /and yah Canada has literally 1/3 per million covid deaths as the US and the UK so over all while its bad, its definitely not as bad as those two crap-hole countries let things get.

Canada population density:  4 people per square km.
UK population density: 275 people per square km

/*shrug*


Uh, yeah, about that.

upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
2021-03-02 7:39:04 AM  
"Doug Ford's point man"

I think I found the problem.
 
2021-03-02 8:35:47 AM  

johnny_vegas: BumpInTheNight: /and yah Canada has literally 1/3 per million covid deaths as the US and the UK so over all while its bad, its definitely not as bad as those two crap-hole countries let things get.

Canada population density:  4 people per square km.
UK population density: 275 people per square km

/*shrug*


Population density probably has an impact, but that Canadian figure is wildly distorted by the amount of Canada that has almost zero population.

The places Canadians do live in is far more densely populated, though very likely still less dense than the UK.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-03-02 8:38:11 AM  

Algebrat: I was about to challenge that 20k annual flu number just based on the fact that I know the US is typically around 30k and has 5x the population, but you're right.  Today I learned that the UK historically has 3x the annual per capita flu deaths of the US.  Weird.


Because in the US you get shot long before you can catch the flu.

/No idea why the difference. Flu shots are seen as non essential here. I got a flu shot about twenty years ago when the place I worked at offered them, but since then I haven't had one.
 
2021-03-02 8:45:07 AM  

chawco: Carter Pewterschmidt: iron de havilland: Carter Pewterschmidt: Canada put a military man in charge? In the UK Boris put a businesswoman in charge of the vaccine purchase and told her to get a move on.

It is really surprising that Johnson's government managed to do something right.

Quite a refreshing change, really.

Only to people like you, who chose to ignore facts like it was the Tories that started the Irish peace process and did most of the work. Or that you tried to blame the Conservative government in Westminster for the poor service you get from the NHS in Scotland, when that is run by the SNP.

In a few years you'll be trying to retcon this vaccine as somehow the Tories screwed up and it was the wonderful EU vaccines that saved us etc. It's just what you do.

I'm just going to say, I feel like after your 15th long post the same, it might be time to settle down a little bit. Especially when every single one of those posts has an argument with someone else


My posts usually say the same thing because those are the facts. I'd be far more concerned if you'd accused me of saying different things in different posts.

In lots of posts on other subjects I often get a lot of people agreeing with me. Like here or here. It seems to be Brexit threads that lots of Farkers have just decided that Brexit is bad, the EU is wonderful and no amount of facts and evidence will change their minds.
 
2021-03-02 8:51:10 AM  

the voice of raisin: so apparently you haven't actually been paying attention to the vaccine rollout beyond a few headlines.  Let me inject some knowledge in ya:
1. The vaccination rollouts are handled by each province separately.   What's true for your province may not be true for others.
2. Canada has almost no (if any) facilities to manufacture vaccines.  Therefore all vaccines used in Canada come from 1 or more other countries.  This might be important.   That is likely sarcasm.
3. There was no previous issue with this pre-pandemic, because there was manufacturing capacity to spare in both the US and Europe.
4.  Trump declared, and Biden agrees that no vaccines manufactured in the US will be available for international distribution until after all Americans (in the US) are fully vaccinated.  Contracts can be settled afterwards, feel free to fight them in court.
5. Therefore all vaccines entering Canada are manufactured in the EU.
6.  The EU is/was having their own manufacturing capacity issues and had to take some plants temporarily offline to upgrade them to increase capacity.   Hence the 2 weeks where no vaccines were received.
7.  Even still, the EU plants are at capacity trying to fill all of the orders.   Therefore things are progressing slower than expected.
8. There has already been discussion about building manufacturing plants in Canada.  If passed and followed through, they should online and ready in time for the next pandemic.

/There.  Read and feel the learnin


The EU also threatened to ban/restrict exports to non-EU countries, including to the UK who had placed perfectly legal orders. The EU threatened to impose border checks in Ireland, without even consulting or warning the Irish government, despite having spent the last five years pretending to be so opposed to any border checks in Ireland. You're comment suggested "Trump bad, the EU are just unfortunate victims of production issues" when in reality the EU acted in a very Trumpian manner to protect their political interests.
 
2021-03-02 9:03:35 AM  

mungo: The vaccine roll-out is being handled by the NHS (hospitals, local doctors' surgeries and 'nightingale vaccination centres', plus commercial pharmacies, which are also tightly integrated with the NHS. That's why it's working.

Meanwhile track & trace, PPE provision, intial ventilator provision, etc. were corrupt shiatshows.

The Tories are shamelessly accepting praise for things they are not responsible for.


Being very selective there. The same Tories run the NHS in England. If you praise the NHS for the vaccine rollout why excuse them for not having enough PPE? If commercial pharmacies "tightly integrated" with the NHS did a great job then why excuse the NHS Test And Trace effort which was also from companies tightly integrated with the NHS? You can't cherry pick all the good elements and praise the NHS and lump all the bad points onto the government.

mungo: The *only* thing they did right - and I'm glad they did - was buy vaccines from *everyone* speculatively right at the start, putting us at the front of the queue for a rollout - but I suspect even that was based on the motive 'lets use taxpayer money to get businesses back on their feet asap' rather than any compassion for actual people.


And her you begrudgingly praise their success while also claiming it was just a jobs for the boys scheme that just happened to benefit the public.
 
2021-03-02 9:07:36 AM  

marsoft: I looked at the the spreadsheet provided by the UK government on causes of death.  Flu has been swinging between 13K and 15K deaths per year since at least 2001.  That is significantly lower than 20K


I got that figure from here, just to illustrate my point. It looks like that 20k figure was an exceptional peak that one year, so I'm happy to be corrected. It suggests that once we have everyone vaccinated the covid death rate should be that much lower as well.
 
2021-03-02 9:36:52 AM  

outtatowner: Way to focus on what's really important.


What would that be? The lessons and fun we had along the way?
 
2021-03-02 9:41:45 AM  

WalkingSedgwick: Canada's vaccination non-rollout is complete humanitarian disaster.

The current plan is to prioritize the very old (80+), then to vaccinate people based on which demographics are most likely to vote (formally: by descending age bracket) regardless of their risk profile. As a result, healthy 60 year olds who are able to self-isolate are going to get their vaccines months before 40 year old service workers who meet hundreds of people a day, and both of whom will get their vaccine shots at least six months before 18 year old immunosuppressed cancer patients will have their chance.

There has been a defacto government decision to sacrifice the lives of the chronically ill in favor of benefiting the demographics that more reliably turn up at the ballot box. This should be considered a crime against humanity.


Uh, does it make sense to give immuno suppressed people a vaccine?  Isn't that like setting up the practice squad but the pro star team isn't there to play?
 
2021-03-02 10:14:45 AM  

RogueWallEnthusiast: WalkingSedgwick: Canada's vaccination non-rollout is complete humanitarian disaster.

The current plan is to prioritize the very old (80+), then to vaccinate people based on which demographics are most likely to vote (formally: by descending age bracket) regardless of their risk profile. As a result, healthy 60 year olds who are able to self-isolate are going to get their vaccines months before 40 year old service workers who meet hundreds of people a day, and both of whom will get their vaccine shots at least six months before 18 year old immunosuppressed cancer patients will have their chance.

There has been a defacto government decision to sacrifice the lives of the chronically ill in favor of benefiting the demographics that more reliably turn up at the ballot box. This should be considered a crime against humanity.

Uh, does it make sense to give immuno suppressed people a vaccine?  Isn't that like setting up the practice squad but the pro star team isn't there to play?


It's not a live virus and just about every medical organization in the world says that immunosuppressed patients are encouraged to take the vaccine.
 
2021-03-02 10:24:09 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: mungo: The vaccine roll-out is being handled by the NHS (hospitals, local doctors' surgeries and 'nightingale vaccination centres', plus commercial pharmacies, which are also tightly integrated with the NHS. That's why it's working.

Meanwhile track & trace, PPE provision, intial ventilator provision, etc. were corrupt shiatshows.

The Tories are shamelessly accepting praise for things they are not responsible for.

Being very selective there. The same Tories run the NHS in England. If you praise the NHS for the vaccine rollout why excuse them for not having enough PPE? If commercial pharmacies "tightly integrated" with the NHS did a great job then why excuse the NHS Test And Trace effort which was also from companies tightly integrated with the NHS? You can't cherry pick all the good elements and praise the NHS and lump all the bad points onto the government.

mungo: The *only* thing they did right - and I'm glad they did - was buy vaccines from *everyone* speculatively right at the start, putting us at the front of the queue for a rollout - but I suspect even that was based on the motive 'lets use taxpayer money to get businesses back on their feet asap' rather than any compassion for actual people.

And her you begrudgingly praise their success while also claiming it was just a jobs for the boys scheme that just happened to benefit the public.


"then why excuse the NHS Test And Trace effort which was also from companies tightly integrated with the NHS? "
- Because it wasn't from 'companies tightly integrated with the NHS'. I was set up, from scratch, and headed by Dido Harding, a conservative peer married to a conservative MP, who has no qualifications for running a public health service in a national emergency, and completely failed to deliver a test and trace scheme that has somehow cost us £22 billion (https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-h​ea​lth-coronavirus-britain-testing-idUKKB​N2832FL), or roughly £320 each.

Meanwhile the reports of cronies being awarded PPE contracts without ever having produced PPE before are also depressingly plentiful, if you just google them.

If you can't see that someone's snout is in the trough here, then it's because you don't want to see.
 
2021-03-02 10:54:10 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: marsoft: I looked at the the spreadsheet provided by the UK government on causes of death.  Flu has been swinging between 13K and 15K deaths per year since at least 2001.  That is significantly lower than 20K

I got that figure from here, just to illustrate my point. It looks like that 20k figure was an exceptional peak that one year, so I'm happy to be corrected. It suggests that once we have everyone vaccinated the covid death rate should be that much lower as well.


The figures are even lower in reality.  This is because 14,708 figure is for Flu and Pneumonia in 2018 which is the latest ONS official figures.  The rates so far from vaccinated people in the UK show a massive reduction in both hospitalisation and deaths.
 
2021-03-02 11:10:23 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: the voice of raisin: so apparently you haven't actually been paying attention to the vaccine rollout beyond a few headlines.  Let me inject some knowledge in ya:
1. The vaccination rollouts are handled by each province separately.   What's true for your province may not be true for others.
2. Canada has almost no (if any) facilities to manufacture vaccines.  Therefore all vaccines used in Canada come from 1 or more other countries.  This might be important.   That is likely sarcasm.
3. There was no previous issue with this pre-pandemic, because there was manufacturing capacity to spare in both the US and Europe.
4.  Trump declared, and Biden agrees that no vaccines manufactured in the US will be available for international distribution until after all Americans (in the US) are fully vaccinated.  Contracts can be settled afterwards, feel free to fight them in court.
5. Therefore all vaccines entering Canada are manufactured in the EU.
6.  The EU is/was having their own manufacturing capacity issues and had to take some plants temporarily offline to upgrade them to increase capacity.   Hence the 2 weeks where no vaccines were received.
7.  Even still, the EU plants are at capacity trying to fill all of the orders.   Therefore things are progressing slower than expected.
8. There has already been discussion about building manufacturing plants in Canada.  If passed and followed through, they should online and ready in time for the next pandemic.

/There.  Read and feel the learnin

The EU also threatened to ban/restrict exports to non-EU countries, including to the UK who had placed perfectly legal orders. The EU threatened to impose border checks in Ireland, without even consulting or warning the Irish government, despite having spent the last five years pretending to be so opposed to any border checks in Ireland. You're comment suggested "Trump bad, the EU are just unfortunate victims of production issues" when in reality the EU acted in a very Trumpian manner to protect their political interests.


you are almost correct on your first point.  The EU does claim "priority" for smy vaccines manufactured within its borders, with the same reasoning as the US.

your second point is bullshiat.  The UK is no longer part of the EU and insists on not following EU regulations so of course there will be a reinstated border between  the UK and the Republic of Ireland.  Are you also upset there's a border between Turkey and Greece?
 
2021-03-02 12:16:44 PM  

mungo: "then why excuse the NHS Test And Trace effort which was also from companies tightly integrated with the NHS? "
- Because it wasn't from 'companies tightly integrated with the NHS'. I was set up, from scratch, and headed by Dido Harding, a conservative peer married to a conservative MP, who has no qualifications for running a public health service in a national emergency, and completely failed to deliver a test and trace scheme that has somehow cost us £22 billion (https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-he​alth-coronavirus-britain-testing-idUKK​BN2832FL), or roughly £320 each.

Meanwhile the reports of cronies being awarded PPE contracts without ever having produced PPE before are also depressingly plentiful, if you just google them.

If you can't see that someone's snout is in the trough here, then it's because you don't want to see.


And again you are trying to claim the test and trace is 100% Tory government while vaccinations are 100% NHS and they and they alone deserve the credit.

Well the government runs the NHS in England, so clearly the government should get the credit for their work, right?

And test and trace was very much integrated with the NHS.

Multiple organisations are involved in NHSTT across the public and private sectors. Pillar 1 testing is provided through NHS and Public Health England laboratories, and pillar 2 testing is delivered through a range of academic and commercial partnerships. Examples include operational delivery from the army and companies such as Deloitte and G4S, recruitment using Sodexo, testing kits through Randox, logistics with Amazon, and processing involving university laboratories as well as companies such as AstraZeneca and GlaxoSmithKline.

So the same NHS, and the same pharma companies, that you praised for the vaccine rollout, the same labs and universities that came up with the vaccine.

Has the test and trace system failed? Very likely yes. But many other countries had the exact same issues. Looks like setting up a nationwide virus tracking system from scratch in a matter of weeks is hard. Who knew?

The same problems, and worse, were happening across Europe as countries and leaders bickered and argued. And PPE shortages and supply problems again were happening everywhere.

EU countries have reported shortages of ventilators, personal protective equipment and testing kits - especially in Italy, Spain, the Netherlands and France where there are very high coronavirus patient loads requiring intensive care.
However, several stories have emerged revealing that some member states have been victims of fraud when trying to increase their availability of anti-virus gear, such as tests or masks.
While the Netherlands recently discovered that 600,000 face masks imported from China were defective, Belgian media reported on Tuesday that 100,000 masks coming from Colombia were useless and even contain "animal faeces".
Additionally, Germany has lost nearly six million masks at an airport in Kenya, according to Der Spiegel magazine.
And, Slovakia, the Czech Republic and Spain have returned thousands of faulty rapid testing kits they had purchased from Chinese companies
.

But from reading your comments only the "Useless Tories" in the UK screwed up and everyone else has been a model of perfection and efficiency.
 
2021-03-02 12:18:54 PM  
The only URL left was "bangthequeenofengland.ca" and the queen wouldn't let them use it for their covid vaccine website
 
2021-03-02 12:23:20 PM  

the voice of raisin: you are almost correct on your first point.  The EU does claim "priority" for smy vaccines manufactured within its borders, with the same reasoning as the US.


The UK also had priority on UK made supplies. The difference was everyone, AstraZenica and all their potential customers, knew this from the start. What the EU did was allow countries like the UK to place orders and then, only after the EUs failures became clear and they started to panic, did they announce a ban and export controls to be imposed immediately. So the UK placed orders with EU suppliers on the clear legal understanding that their delivery schedule was perfectly legal and proper, only for the EU to pull the rug from under us at the last second.

the voice of raisin: your second point is bullshiat.  The UK is no longer part of the EU and insists on not following EU regulations so of course there will be a reinstated border between  the UK and the Republic of Ireland.  Are you also upset there's a border between Turkey and Greece?


The EU has spent five years insisting there must not be any border controls within Ireland. The EU announced border controls effective immediately without even bothering to warn the Irish government.  When you had both Sinn Fein and the DUP united in calling you idiots you know you screwed up. The fact the EU backed down and dropped that plan mere hours later clearly shows they know they screwed up.
 
2021-03-02 12:44:51 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: the voice of raisin: you are almost correct on your first point.  The EU does claim "priority" for smy vaccines manufactured within its borders, with the same reasoning as the US.

The UK also had priority on UK made supplies. The difference was everyone, AstraZenica and all their potential customers, knew this from the start. What the EU did was allow countries like the UK to place orders and then, only after the EUs failures became clear and they started to panic, did they announce a ban and export controls to be imposed immediately. So the UK placed orders with EU suppliers on the clear legal understanding that their delivery schedule was perfectly legal and proper, only for the EU to pull the rug from under us at the last second.

the voice of raisin: your second point is bullshiat.  The UK is no longer part of the EU and insists on not following EU regulations so of course there will be a reinstated border between  the UK and the Republic of Ireland.  Are you also upset there's a border between Turkey and Greece?

The EU has spent five years insisting there must not be any border controls within Ireland. The EU announced border controls effective immediately without even bothering to warn the Irish government.  When you had both Sinn Fein and the DUP united in calling you idiots you know you screwed up. The fact the EU backed down and dropped that plan mere hours later clearly shows they know they screwed up.


Canada has/had contracts with the US for most medical supplies and vaccines.

they will "eventually" be filled.

unless you're willing to start a shooting war over it or find your vaccines somewhere else, we'll just have to "suck it up" for now.

not saying it's right, but I'm saying I understand.

----

The threat of a hard border between the UK and Republic of Ireland was first brought up by Remainers during the vote.

Leavers thought the EU was bluffing, and that the Remainers were being alarmist.

you played "Chicken" and lost.

suck it up
 
2021-03-02 3:42:01 PM  

the voice of raisin: Canada has/had contracts with the US for most medical supplies and vaccines.

they will "eventually" be filled.

unless you're willing to start a shooting war over it or find your vaccines somewhere else, we'll just have to "suck it up" for now.

not saying it's right, but I'm saying I understand.


I suppose it comes down to when those export restrictions were announced. If Canada knew about them at the start then they could have either insisted on production within Canada (The UK placed orders many months before vaccines were ready giving them time to set up production facilities) or done deals with non US countries that could promise supply.
What the EU did was allow orders to be placed and suddenly announce export restrictions just as shipments were underway.

the voice of raisin: The threat of a hard border between the UK and Republic of Ireland was first brought up by Remainers during the vote.

Leavers thought the EU was bluffing, and that the Remainers were being alarmist.

you played "Chicken" and lost.

suck it up


Actually us leavers attitude was "Well duh. Of course there's going to be a border." The Republic would be in the EU and NI would be outside. Of course there would be a border. How could there not be?

But we'd be happy to keep it as low key and unobtrusive as possible. Had Ireland not made a huge deal of it we could have quietly left it pretty much open to people and cars without anyone really caring. When we lived in Canada decades ago my parents remembered you could cross over into the US and back with no passports or checking. There was even an episode of Frasier based on the gang in an RV crossing over into Canada in an RV while Daphne was asleep and her freaking out when she found out because it violated her green card. It wasn't until after 911 that the border was tightened up.

The Irish border could have been quietly kept that loose and no one would have cared.

But once Ireland made a big deal about a proper solution had to be found, and Theresa May made a huge blunder by promising the Irish she'd keep the border open, which the EU then leapt on and meant the UK had to find some magic way to keep a border 100% open while not allowing anything the EU didn't like in. Hence the backstop and then Boris's border in the sea deal.

Had May not stupidly made that promise, something she didn't have to do, then the UK would have just said "Yeah, there's going to be a border. Duh. Deal with it."

See here for a more detailed account.
 
2021-03-02 3:48:59 PM  

JaytheFarkingCanadian: Russ1642: I couldn't finish reading that but rest assured that whoever wrote it is a farking idiot.

Same. Coming from the National Post,it was already suspect. Basically, its the T.O. Sun without the Sunshine Girl and the sports section.


Same ownership, same editorial policies
 
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