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(Gizmodo)   Verizon quickly deleted tweet about preserving battery life by switching from 5G to LTE. Subby growls, "So that's what is wrong with this wretched little beast"   (gizmodo.com) divider line
    More: Fail, 4G, Verizon Wireless, Mobile phone, 3GPP Long Term Evolution, Verizon Wireless CS, 3G, battery drain, battery life  
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806 clicks; posted to STEM » on 01 Mar 2021 at 12:20 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



18 Comments     (+0 »)
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2021-02-28 7:45:43 PM  
Makes sense.
5G has shorter range so they probably crank up antenna power above what it takes for LTE.

Well there's a rabbit hole to go down.
 
2021-02-28 7:57:21 PM  
I doubt Verizon is the manufacturer of the phone.
 
2021-02-28 10:29:47 PM  
Guessing 5G is a beta thing you pay extra for, then regret.
Kind of like an engagement ring.
 
2021-03-01 12:25:03 AM  

thermo: I doubt Verizon is the manufacturer of the phone.


Funny.. As much unremovable shiat as they preload onto them, it sure feels like a part of the manufacturing process.
 
2021-03-01 12:31:09 AM  

cretinbob: Makes sense.
5G has shorter range so they probably crank up antenna power above what it takes for LTE.

Well there's a rabbit hole to go down.


"5G" can be long or short range.
 
2021-03-01 1:13:26 AM  
Not a bad idea.  First gen 4g units had the same problem.  Takes a few generations to figure it out, unfortunately
 
2021-03-01 1:50:16 AM  

cretinbob: Makes sense.
5G has shorter range so they probably crank up antenna power above what it takes for LTE.

Well there's a rabbit hole to go down.


The issue currently is that the handsets have two radios, one for 5G and the other fkr everything else. So if the phone is using everything else for back up with 5G primary you have two radios talking. Turn off 5G and you are now using one so less power usage.
 
2021-03-01 2:12:26 AM  

cretinbob: Makes sense.
5G has shorter range so they probably crank up antenna power above what it takes for LTE.

Well there's a rabbit hole to go down.


5G only has a shorter range when it operates on the new frequencies above 3 GHz that LTE never used.  On the legacy bands below 3 GHz, its range is generally the same or better than LTE given the same transmit power.
 
2021-03-01 2:15:02 AM  

bhcompy: Not a bad idea.  First gen 4g units had the same problem.  Takes a few generations to figure it out, unfortunately


As chipset efficiency improves, 5G should eventually become more efficient than LTE for a given payload size since your handset can put the radio back into sleep mode faster.
 
2021-03-01 7:17:12 AM  

Dinjiin: bhcompy: Not a bad idea.  First gen 4g units had the same problem.  Takes a few generations to figure it out, unfortunately

As chipset efficiency improves, 5G should eventually become more efficient than LTE for a given payload size since your handset can put the radio back into sleep mode faster.


Is that actually true? Because that sounds made up as fark
 
2021-03-01 7:23:08 AM  

Dinjiin: cretinbob: Makes sense.
5G has shorter range so they probably crank up antenna power above what it takes for LTE.

Well there's a rabbit hole to go down.

5G only has a shorter range when it operates on the new frequencies above 3 GHz that LTE never used.  On the legacy bands below 3 GHz, its range is generally the same or better than LTE given the same transmit power.


The issue becomes that the channel bandwidths used for 5G are so much wider than 4G that it's doubtful they can migrate a substantial portion of users to the lagacy bands.
 
2021-03-01 9:32:59 AM  
My phone gets like 1/5 of its download speed on the 5g network.

I am never toggling that sucker on.
 
2021-03-01 10:35:56 AM  

Likwit: Dinjiin: bhcompy: Not a bad idea.  First gen 4g units had the same problem.  Takes a few generations to figure it out, unfortunately

As chipset efficiency improves, 5G should eventually become more efficient than LTE for a given payload size since your handset can put the radio back into sleep mode faster.

Is that actually true? Because that sounds made up as fark


The transmit power amplifier in the RF front end consumes a substantial amount of power when it is on, so the more it can be kept in idle/sleep mode, the better your power utilization will be.  Since wireless data transmissions are bursty in nature, the shorter you can keep those bursts, the better.

https://www.ericsson.com/en/blog/2019​/​9/energy-consumption-5g-nr
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~lierranli​/​coms6998-7Spring2014/papers/rrclte_mob​isys2012.pdf
 
2021-03-01 10:49:34 AM  
The higher frequency giveth while the shorter wavelength taketh away.  RF is a cruel mistress.
 
2021-03-01 11:13:53 AM  

006andahalf: Dinjiin: cretinbob: Makes sense.
5G has shorter range so they probably crank up antenna power above what it takes for LTE.

Well there's a rabbit hole to go down.

5G only has a shorter range when it operates on the new frequencies above 3 GHz that LTE never used.  On the legacy bands below 3 GHz, its range is generally the same or better than LTE given the same transmit power.

The issue becomes that the channel bandwidths used for 5G are so much wider than 4G that it's doubtful they can migrate a substantial portion of users to the lagacy bands.


Yes and no.  One really interesting feature of 5G NR is carrier aggregation, which allows the bonding of multiple channels (both adjacent and non-adjacent) in order to increase bandwidth.  So a client could have 10 MHz of uplink and downlink at 700 MHz, and then rope in 30 MHz of additional downlink at 1900, 2500, or 3500 MHz when demand kicks up, which it releases when done.

Fark user imageView Full Size


Going on a tangent, one thing you might notice with all of the new bands above 2 GHz is that they're mostly time duplex divided instead of frequency duplex divided.  With TDD, a base station can adjust the ratio of uplink to downlink however it wants.  So if you know that most clients will have sufficient uplink capacity on a lower band, you can just use these higher bands as reservoirs for high bandwidth clients, most of which will be downloading.

I bring this up because band usage is going to become very muddled and complex going forward.
 
2021-03-01 11:54:05 AM  

fortheloveof: cretinbob: Makes sense.
5G has shorter range so they probably crank up antenna power above what it takes for LTE.

Well there's a rabbit hole to go down.

The issue currently is that the handsets have two radios, one for 5G and the other fkr everything else. So if the phone is using everything else for back up with 5G primary you have two radios talking. Turn off 5G and you are now using one so less power usage.


It's not only that there are two radios, but also almost all the phones have a separate chip for 5G instead of combining it on the same chip as 4G.
 
2021-03-01 11:55:13 AM  
I'm using long range 5G and my battery has plenty of juice left when I go to bed. Maybe tweak your phone settings to save power. Those settings people don't bother to check.
 
2021-03-01 12:17:05 PM  

Gnaglor: fortheloveof: cretinbob: Makes sense.
5G has shorter range so they probably crank up antenna power above what it takes for LTE.

Well there's a rabbit hole to go down.

The issue currently is that the handsets have two radios, one for 5G and the other fkr everything else. So if the phone is using everything else for back up with 5G primary you have two radios talking. Turn off 5G and you are now using one so less power usage.

It's not only that there are two radios, but also almost all the phones have a separate chip for 5G instead of combining it on the same chip as 4G.


Thank you for the follow up, I thought that was the case but could not remember completely and did not want to give bad information so stuck to the part I knew was true. My time looking at handsets has been limited lately.
 
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