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    More: Obvious, Minimum wage, Employment, Wage, federal minimum wage, minimum wage, past month, abundance of stories, Automatic increases  
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1065 clicks; posted to Business » on 26 Feb 2021 at 2:00 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-02-26 2:12:40 PM  
"She says she's already paying her non-tipped kitchen employees above the $7.25 minimum, between $10 and $12. "I would absolutely love to pay them all $15 an hour, but if I was forced to do that overnight, I don't know how Henny Penny would survive," she said."

That's a problem if the article is correct in that it takes $12.90 an hour to meet the basic costs of living in the city. If you can't pay them enough to survive, the business has already failed.

Though considering her tipped employees are making enough to satisfy a fifteen dollar minimum wage, I suspect raising her prices wouldn't scare away that many customers and she'd be fine.
 
2021-02-26 2:14:40 PM  
What I hate so much about these articles on the minimum wage, is that whenever employers claim that they won't survive if they have to pay their employees $15, the journalists never push them to open up their books to show how slim their margins are and what would happen if they had to pay more in wages. I mean, newspapers shouldn't print a quote about a business being unable to survive with a $15 minimum wage unless their is data to back it up.
 
2021-02-26 2:44:10 PM  
Raise  your prices, if you lose business because of it your food wasn't that great to begin with.
 
2021-02-26 3:04:00 PM  
These arguments are always predicated on:

1.  None of your competitors will have to pay the same wage.
2.  Your competitors won't raise prices, thereby allowing you to raise prices.

Basing it on the economics of now isn't relevant because it won't be now, it will be a different business environment.  It's like complaining that if drugs are legal, your drugs will be too expensive for anyone to buy.

Yes, things might shake out that it's worse for you.  You might get less customers.  Your labor economics will be such that you have to modify how much labor you have.  But just saying "If I have to pay more in wages and the entire business environment is unchanged then I'm screwed" is not valid.  It's not an actual proposition made by minimum wage laws.
 
2021-02-26 3:16:22 PM  
If you're employing high school kids bagging groceries or whatever, $10 is probably more than enough. But most of these minimum wage (or near) articles focus on people trying to support an adult lifestyle, often including a family. In those cases, $15+ is far more realistic.

I still think popular opinion and most economic theories support $15, but I think there need to be certain carveouts for people like part time minors who are dependents of others. They're just trying to get some job experience, and $15 can be quite a hurdle for hiring an inexperienced employee.

It would be like saying "Sorry, you don't get a credit rating without a mortgage!" You need credit cards or car loans to build that credit somehow. Not everyone can make the big leap.
 
2021-02-26 3:56:19 PM  
The simple fact of the matter is that there is a portion of the population whose labor is not worth $15/hr. Now, it might be worth, say, $8/hr. And with some experience it would likely quickly rise. The minimum wage cuts those folks out. It removes the bottom rung of the ladder, and you can't climb the ladder unless you can get on the bottom rung.

And it should go without saying, but here goes anyway. The idea of a federal mandated wage minimum is silly anyway, since there is such a large variation of standard of living across the country.
 
2021-02-26 4:08:53 PM  
saphrophyte:
And it should go without saying, but here goes anyway. The idea of a federal mandated wage minimum is silly anyway, since there is such a large variation of standard of living across the country.

It occurs to me to wonder, if every state had its own currency, what would the exchange rate between New York dollars and Alabama dollars be?
 
2021-02-26 4:17:29 PM  
There already is a waiver to minimum wage on the federal books.  An employer can pay a training wage for up to 90 days to new hires under 20, or maybe 21.  And the training wage is some rotten percentage of minimum wage.  A lot of employers try it, and either churn thru employees because 90 days goes fast, or they can't find anyone because the market is too hot.
 
2021-02-26 4:17:56 PM  

karl2025: "She says she's already paying her non-tipped kitchen employees above the $7.25 minimum, between $10 and $12. "I would absolutely love to pay them all $15 an hour, but if I was forced to do that overnight, I don't know how Henny Penny would survive," she said."

That's a problem if the article is correct in that it takes $12.90 an hour to meet the basic costs of living in the city. If you can't pay them enough to survive, the business has already failed.

Though considering her tipped employees are making enough to satisfy a fifteen dollar minimum wage, I suspect raising her prices wouldn't scare away that many customers and she'd be fine.


Depends on the what the restaurant serves and its clientele. The Henny Penny is a little cafe that serves things like crepes and muffins and coffee. There's no tip money there. But then, it also looks like a place whose clientele would pay price increases.

What I'd worry about is the kind of breakfast-and-lunch diners where everyone's tab is under $10 for a plate of eggs and bacon and a bottomless cup of coffee. Not much money floating around for tips and customers of places like that can tend to be price conscious.
 
2021-02-26 4:19:37 PM  

pdieten: saphrophyte:
And it should go without saying, but here goes anyway. The idea of a federal mandated wage minimum is silly anyway, since there is such a large variation of standard of living across the country.

It occurs to me to wonder, if every state had its own currency, what would the exchange rate between New York dollars and Alabama dollars be?


There's a fascinating history of currency in this country as the colonies had each their own currencies. Also, banks issued notes that were used as currency. When it was backed by (drawable upon) metals one knew exactly what the relative value was. Of course, different currencies had different demand geographically and therefore the exchange feeds did vary.

Of course, the confederacy issued their own currency also after succession. One did not want to be holding confederate dollars in 1865..
 
2021-02-26 4:50:11 PM  

cherryl taggart: There already is a waiver to minimum wage on the federal books.  An employer can pay a training wage for up to 90 days to new hires under 20, or maybe 21.  And the training wage is some rotten percentage of minimum wage.  A lot of employers try it, and either churn thru employees because 90 days goes fast, or they can't find anyone because the market is too hot.


The State of Georgia used this provision constantly in prisons and mental hospitals all through the 80s and 90s. Employ an aide in an 88-day position, let them go, then rehire them 3 days later. It was a pretty good scam to keep people out of benefits-eligible positions.
 
2021-02-26 5:09:17 PM  

thornhill: What I hate so much about these articles on the minimum wage, is that whenever employers claim that they won't survive if they have to pay their employees $15, the journalists never push them to open up their books to show how slim their margins are and what would happen if they had to pay more in wages. I mean, newspapers shouldn't print a quote about a business being unable to survive with a $15 minimum wage unless their is data to back it up.


Does journalism actually do any investigating, the decade of journalism has been awful.
 
2021-02-26 5:16:18 PM  
Well you know it is part of the culture there to underpay or not pay labor, in fact they used to have whole plantations of people that worked for just food and housing and were happy to do it too. Then them damn liberal yankees came down and ruined it.

If you can't pay adults a living wage then you shouldn't be in business.
 
2021-02-26 5:28:37 PM  

Incog_Neeto: Raise  your prices, if you lose business because of it your food wasn't that great to begin with.


That's an absurd statement to make.
 
2021-02-26 5:39:51 PM  
The article doesn't even mention Alabama.
 
2021-02-26 5:54:30 PM  

thornhill: What I hate so much about these articles on the minimum wage, is that whenever employers claim that they won't survive if they have to pay their employees $15, the journalists never push them to open up their books to show how slim their margins are and what would happen if they had to pay more in wages. I mean, newspapers shouldn't print a quote about a business being unable to survive with a $15 minimum wage unless their is data to back it up.


If they did that, then we would never have these articles again. And probably a lot of places would be exposed as having horrible and/or illegal accounting practices.
 
2021-02-26 5:56:00 PM  

nunyabidness: The article doesn't even mention Alabama.


Well, subby is a Farker. Only reads the headlines, not the articles.
 
2021-02-26 7:38:08 PM  

adamatari: thornhill: What I hate so much about these articles on the minimum wage, is that whenever employers claim that they won't survive if they have to pay their employees $15, the journalists never push them to open up their books to show how slim their margins are and what would happen if they had to pay more in wages. I mean, newspapers shouldn't print a quote about a business being unable to survive with a $15 minimum wage unless their is data to back it up.

If they did that, then we would never have these articles again. And probably a lot of places would be exposed as having horrible and/or illegal accounting practices.


Maybe, but the rule of thumb is that if your restaurant is going to stay in business, your labor cost has to be 30% of your sales. If you know what your labor cost is now, then you can figure what raising everyone to a new minimum wage will be, and then you know how much more sales you'll have to make. Except you don't know if you can make that new level. Don't forget, what shows up in people's paychecks isn't a business's labor cost. The business has to cover payroll taxes and whatever benefits anyone has too.

It's not that much different from your own home budget. If your landlord raises your rent to the point that you'd be running a deficit every month, can you just say off the top of your head that you can afford that? And if not, what are you going to do about it? Just go out and get a higher paying job?
 
2021-02-26 9:35:18 PM  
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2021-02-26 10:33:11 PM  

NikolaiFarkoff: If you're employing high school kids bagging groceries or whatever, $10 is probably more than enough. But most of these minimum wage (or near) articles focus on people trying to support an adult lifestyle, often including a family. In those cases, $15+ is far more realistic.

I still think popular opinion and most economic theories support $15, but I think there need to be certain carveouts for people like part time minors who are dependents of others. They're just trying to get some job experience, and $15 can be quite a hurdle for hiring an inexperienced employee.

It would be like saying "Sorry, you don't get a credit rating without a mortgage!" You need credit cards or car loans to build that credit somehow. Not everyone can make the big leap.


I am going to disagree with that. Underpaying minors is asking their parents to subsidize your business.
 
2021-02-26 11:41:40 PM  

pdieten: adamatari: thornhill: What I hate so much about these articles on the minimum wage, is that whenever employers claim that they won't survive if they have to pay their employees $15, the journalists never push them to open up their books to show how slim their margins are and what would happen if they had to pay more in wages. I mean, newspapers shouldn't print a quote about a business being unable to survive with a $15 minimum wage unless their is data to back it up.

If they did that, then we would never have these articles again. And probably a lot of places would be exposed as having horrible and/or illegal accounting practices.

Maybe, but the rule of thumb is that if your restaurant is going to stay in business, your labor cost has to be 30% of your sales. If you know what your labor cost is now, then you can figure what raising everyone to a new minimum wage will be, and then you know how much more sales you'll have to make. Except you don't know if you can make that new level. Don't forget, what shows up in people's paychecks isn't a business's labor cost. The business has to cover payroll taxes and whatever benefits anyone has too.

It's not that much different from your own home budget. If your landlord raises your rent to the point that you'd be running a deficit every month, can you just say off the top of your head that you can afford that? And if not, what are you going to do about it? Just go out and get a higher paying job?


Raising wages means more people have more money to spend on things. It's not comparable to a landlord raising rent, because that landlord isn't turning around and giving some of that extra rent back to various tenants.

Again, if you can't pay your employees a livable wage, yours was never a sustainable business and it shouldn't exist. Full stop. How low are we supposed to let wages be for businesses to stop claiming they're being bled dry? $10? $5? $2?

If you're going to hire people, that's part of your operating costs. Complaining about having to pay your employees enough so they can survive makes you an asshole.
 
2021-02-27 12:30:31 AM  

Incog_Neeto: Raise  your prices, if you lose business because of it your food wasn't that great to begin with.


And don't forget that the same thing applies to ALL restaurants; it's not like all of a sudden all your competitors can massively undercut your new rates. If you're forced to raise your prices a couple of percent, then so will they.

/And at the same time, there will be a ton of minimum wage earners who will now have the money to go and eat out every once in a while as well, making up for the couple of people who decided to eat out less when the price went up a nickel or two.

Seattle already raised their minimum wage, and none of the doom-and-gloom predictions came true.

/It's almost like the entire republican view of the world is built in lies
//it's lies all the way down
 
2021-02-27 2:28:42 AM  
I contend that the fight against raising the min wage is now the Best Coast can't outsource to the Least Coast. Looking at you Boeing.
 
2021-02-27 2:10:49 PM  

NikolaiFarkoff: If you're employing high school kids bagging groceries or whatever, $10 is probably more than enough. But most of these minimum wage (or near) articles focus on people trying to support an adult lifestyle, often including a family. In those cases, $15+ is far more realistic.

I still think popular opinion and most economic theories support $15, but I think there need to be certain carveouts for people like part time minors who are dependents of others. They're just trying to get some job experience, and $15 can be quite a hurdle for hiring an inexperienced employee.

It would be like saying "Sorry, you don't get a credit rating without a mortgage!" You need credit cards or car loans to build that credit somehow. Not everyone can make the big leap.


So couldn't the argument go the other way too?  Hiring the elderly should cost less because they move slower and can't produce as quickly?

The job is the job.  My company doesn't set wages based on the demographic of the PERSON, but the actual job skills required to perform it.  No differing wages based on age, race, gender, etc. (In theory, anyway).

Besides, there are PLENTY of underage minors who are in fact working that part time job to help their family or to save for college or build a nest egg for after graduation.  They should receive equal pay for equal work.
 
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