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(Travel and Leisure)   Hikers in Hawaii who disobey signs may soon have to pay for their own rescues, just like everyone else; then, the murders began   (travelandleisure.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Rescue, proposed bill, own rescues, Hawaii Senator J. Kalani English, government entity, rescue operation, Search and rescue, scenic hiking trails  
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2899 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Feb 2021 at 5:20 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



31 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-02-26 5:29:27 AM  
Well that's the last time I do a virgin a favor by sacrificing her to the volcano gods.
 
2021-02-26 5:32:03 AM  
I'm ok with this.jpg
 
2021-02-26 5:56:05 AM  
Grumpy cat good .jpg
 
2021-02-26 5:57:57 AM  
Same with skiing/snowboarding in Europe - you leave the piste without *proper* off-piste insurance and you have to pay for your own rescue
 
2021-02-26 6:05:08 AM  
I thought this was America
 
2021-02-26 6:13:52 AM  
Something that Rush Limbaugh would agree with. Just to put it into perspective.
 
2021-02-26 6:23:12 AM  
Hey I see those bribing Louisiana idiots got a mention in the next article down.
 
2021-02-26 6:26:09 AM  
You either pay for your own rescue, or you become another missing 411 case; which would be one of the dumbest conspiracy theories around if it weren't for Qanon.
 
2021-02-26 6:29:47 AM  

Cormee: Same with skiing/snowboarding in Europe - you leave the piste without *proper* off-piste insurance and you have to pay for your own rescue


True, but then they would have to pay HUGE sums of money for going off-piste, making them really, REALLY upset.
You can even say they were piste-off.

/sorry
 
2021-02-26 6:30:04 AM  

MattytheMouse: You either pay for your own rescue, or you become another missing 411 case; which would be one of the dumbest conspiracy theories around if it weren't for Qanon.


The what now?
 
2021-02-26 6:44:24 AM  
I only read the headline but... good. I don't think anyone would disagree. Except maybe some tourists who would scream about personal responsibility on one hand, and then loudly ask what they're paying taxes for when they get hit with the rescue bill.

Being prepared and knowing what you're in for is just common sense for any hiking. Paying attention to signs and weather are particularly important. On Kauai we've had plenty of great examples. There's a section of trail at the top of the Napali coast called the Nualolo Cliff Trail. It's a 2 mile connector between two out-and-back paths that get you to the edge of the 3000' cliffs. It was closed on and off for a while because sections were eroding, and simply no longer there in some spots. People still went out to see "how bad it really was."

Fark user imageView Full Size

(Not me, screen grab of image search)

Talking to locals is a great idea, too. Everyone wants to hike the Kalalau trail along the base of the Napali Coast, at least the first two mile section that brings you to the first secluded beach. The trail needs to cross a river just before the beach. What locals know and tourists don't is that you need to look waaayyyy up high in the cliffs before you go. If you clearly see waterfalls, don't go. And if you're on the beach and you see the same, get back to the other side of the river. After a couple hours that water will find its way down and the river swells very quickly and you can't get across. The ocean is rocky and very rough so you can't swim around it. On many occasions, dozens of tourists have been stranded on the beach overnight and rescued a few at a time by helicopter.
 
2021-02-26 7:13:07 AM  
When you come down to Cobb County Hawaii, you better read the signs and obey the law and order, or you'll be doing hard time.
 
2021-02-26 7:28:34 AM  
Be a bold risk-taking adventurers on your own dime?
Seems reasonable.
 
2021-02-26 7:39:10 AM  
pretty sure I saw this movie. Wasn't Steve Zahn in it?
 
2021-02-26 7:46:40 AM  
Doug Kenney approves and walks off a cliff.
 
2021-02-26 7:50:25 AM  

TheraTx: pretty sure I saw this movie. Wasn't Steve Zahn in it?


Yes.
 
2021-02-26 7:57:01 AM  
What's next? Paying for your own interrogations?
images2.minutemediacdn.comView Full Size
 
2021-02-26 8:11:03 AM  
It's everybody that can be charged, illitimitter, not just people who ignore signs.

"the need for search or rescue was caused by any act or omission by the person searched for or rescued constituting intentional disregard for the person's safety, including, but not limited to, intentionally disregarding a warning or notice."


A person can enter a signed area by a way where there are no signs, get in trouble, and need rescuing.  Some Biden Leg Humper down at the local fire department or whoever rescued him, finds out that the victim isn't also a fellow humper, and get's excited at thought of creating a bill. That's all it would take. Authoritarians, usually leftists, love making laws which are ambivilent or that leave the application of it up to a person. It's how they have been eroding the whole "rule of law" thing in this country for a couple of centuries to make it back to being "rule of man."
 
2021-02-26 8:39:50 AM  

Dr. DJ Duckhunt: Something that Rush Limbaugh would agree with. Just to put it into perspective.


A broken clock is right twice a day. That's a couple orders of magnitude more frequently than rush was right.
 
2021-02-26 9:21:16 AM  
   As someone who has participated in rescues in my years of ski patrolling I think this is a bad idea. You will have people in duress who wont call for help and this will cause more problems than it solves. It will also increase the cost of dealing with the consequences.
All of our SAR in BC is volunteer. If your car goes off the road here off a steep embankment the people who rescue you are unpaid volunteers. So if you want to charge for rescue this should apply to all people rescued whether its a car accident or a lost backcountry skier. Backcountry use in BC is very unregulated and we have had a decreasing amount of rescues proportional to increased amounts of users. This has been achieved by education and training. We have great AST, outdoor first aid and other training courses. As well excellent outdoor education programs in our schools.

There is a reason prevention/elimination is at the top of risk management hierarchy of controls.

The other aspect of this I don't like is that none of the money collected will actually go back into search and rescue or education.

And lastly, I don't know anyone in the SAR community that doesn't absolutely love doing their job. I went on a rescue where we had two kids go out of bounds skiing. We had to drag them out of a creek draw in a 2 hour slog, wallowing in thigh deep unconsolidated snow. When we got them to their parents at 9:00 pm we got got largely ignored and not even a simple thanks. Even if I knew that was going to be the outcome I would have still went and helped.
 
2021-02-26 9:46:23 AM  

New Age Redneck: As someone who has participated in rescues in my years of ski patrolling I think this is a bad idea. You will have people in duress who wont call for help and this will cause more problems than it solves. It will also increase the cost of dealing with the consequences.
All of our SAR in BC is volunteer. If your car goes off the road here off a steep embankment the people who rescue you are unpaid volunteers. So if you want to charge for rescue this should apply to all people rescued whether its a car accident or a lost backcountry skier. Backcountry use in BC is very unregulated and we have had a decreasing amount of rescues proportional to increased amounts of users. This has been achieved by education and training. We have great AST, outdoor first aid and other training courses. As well excellent outdoor education programs in our schools.

There is a reason prevention/elimination is at the top of risk management hierarchy of controls.

The other aspect of this I don't like is that none of the money collected will actually go back into search and rescue or education.

And lastly, I don't know anyone in the SAR community that doesn't absolutely love doing their job. I went on a rescue where we had two kids go out of bounds skiing. We had to drag them out of a creek draw in a 2 hour slog, wallowing in thigh deep unconsolidated snow. When we got them to their parents at 9:00 pm we got got largely ignored and not even a simple thanks. Even if I knew that was going to be the outcome I would have still went and helped.


Wow! Thank you for being such an amazing person, and for restoring some of my faith in humanity!
 
2021-02-26 10:16:07 AM  
In AZ there's a law that says if you ignore signs and try to drive through a flooded road, YOU are entirely responsible for ALL of the costs of rescuing your dumb ass.

As it should be.
 
2021-02-26 11:12:44 AM  
We need this, there is a place in the back of my valley that is a dangerous hike. It's on watershed property and nobody from the public is supposed to go there.

/And they are constantly helicoptering idiots out of there at taxpayers expense. Almost always rookie hikers who see something on their phone and just go.
 
2021-02-26 12:00:12 PM  
"But people in trouble wont call for help" Excuse used every time this gets suggested.
 
2021-02-26 1:17:59 PM  
Bad idea.  You've just created a financial incentive for a government agency.
 
2021-02-26 2:35:22 PM  

Benjimin_Dover: It's everybody that can be charged, illitimitter, not just people who ignore signs.

"the need for search or rescue was caused by any act or omission by the person searched for or rescued constituting intentional disregard for the person's safety, including, but not limited to, intentionally disregarding a warning or notice."


A person can enter a signed area by a way where there are no signs, get in trouble, and need rescuing.  Some Biden Leg Humper down at the local fire department or whoever rescued him, finds out that the victim isn't also a fellow humper, and get's excited at thought of creating a bill. That's all it would take. Authoritarians, usually leftists, love making laws which are ambivilent or that leave the application of it up to a person. It's how they have been eroding the whole "rule of law" thing in this country for a couple of centuries to make it back to being "rule of man."


So you're telling me that only republicans will be billed? Sorry, doubt that. Search and Rescue generally don't get political affiliation when rescuing someone. Congrats on being the first person with Biden Derangement Syndrome I've come across.

Also, shouldn't the "party of personal responsibility" be OK with taking responsibility for their own actions?

Finally, If you're in a situation dire enough to need rescuing, you shouldn't complain about the bill. When my furnace breaks down, I pay the repair guy even though I didn't do anything to break it.
 
2021-02-26 5:14:03 PM  

Benjimin_Dover: It's everybody that can be charged, illitimitter, not just people who ignore signs.

"the need for search or rescue was caused by any act or omission by the person searched for or rescued constituting intentional disregard for the person's safety, including, but not limited to, intentionally disregarding a warning or notice."


A person can enter a signed area by a way where there are no signs, get in trouble, and need rescuing.  Some Biden Leg Humper down at the local fire department or whoever rescued him, finds out that the victim isn't also a fellow humper, and get's excited at thought of creating a bill. That's all it would take. Authoritarians, usually leftists, love making laws which are ambivilent or that leave the application of it up to a person. It's how they have been eroding the whole "rule of law" thing in this country for a couple of centuries to make it back to being "rule of man."


The dumbest thing written on the internet today.
 
2021-02-26 5:51:36 PM  

Resident Muslim: MattytheMouse: You either pay for your own rescue, or you become another missing 411 case; which would be one of the dumbest conspiracy theories around if it weren't for Qanon.

The what now?


Sorry for the late reply. Missing 411 is a conspiracy theory that, if you go into a national park with no maps, GPS, compass, etc, you might get lost and disorientated. So obviously, the only explanation is aliens. Or worm holes. Or some kind of government conspiracy.
 
2021-02-26 7:01:36 PM  

Groupon boob job: Being prepared and knowing what you're in for is just common sense for any hiking. Paying attention to signs and weather are particularly important. On Kauai we've had plenty of great examples. There's a section of trail at the top of the Napali coast called the Nualolo Cliff Trail. It's a 2 mile connector between two out-and-back paths that get you to the edge of the 3000' cliffs. It was closed on and off for a while because sections were eroding, and simply no longer there in some spots. People still went out to see "how bad it really was."


Unfortunately, there is such an obsession with warning signs for things that don't warrant them that people tend to ignore the ones that do mean something.

New Age Redneck: As someone who has participated in rescues in my years of ski patrolling I think this is a bad idea. You will have people in duress who wont call for help and this will cause more problems than it solves. It will also increase the cost of dealing with the consequences.
All of our SAR in BC is volunteer. If your car goes off the road here off a steep embankment the people who rescue you are unpaid volunteers. So if you want to charge for rescue this should apply to all people rescued whether its a car accident or a lost backcountry skier. Backcountry use in BC is very unregulated and we have had a decreasing amount of rescues proportional to increased amounts of users. This has been achieved by education and training. We have great AST, outdoor first aid and other training courses. As well excellent outdoor education programs in our schools.


That's the general philosophy in not charging for search and rescue and for the most part I agree with it.  However, charging the idiots is a different thing and I'm generally inclined to think it's a good idea.
 
2021-02-26 10:23:01 PM  
Loren

However, charging the idiots is a different thing and I'm generally inclined to think it's a good idea.

I totally get it, but unless you can give me some actual data and evidence I think it is utterly useless. Once again I'll cite our education and training programs in BC that have substantially reduced both body recoveries and rescues. Maybe, instead of a hefty fine or handing these people a bill, a mandatory education program might prevent them from poor decision making in the future. My $0.02.

If I may: Please support your local volunteer SAR. Take a first aid course, including AED use. Skiers get your AST training. Hikers and backcountry travelers, practice self rescue and be better prepared than you think you will ever need to be. Finally, please respect private property, as this transgression is the surefire way to lose access to the places we love.

My 35 years of skiing, climbing, mountain biking, hiking, and working in forestry has taught me one very important lesson: nature is simply indifferent to your presence and your greatest act as a human being is survival.
 
2021-02-27 1:57:56 AM  

NotARocketScientist: Benjimin_Dover: It's everybody that can be charged, illitimitter, not just people who ignore signs.

"the need for search or rescue was caused by any act or omission by the person searched for or rescued constituting intentional disregard for the person's safety, including, but not limited to, intentionally disregarding a warning or notice."


A person can enter a signed area by a way where there are no signs, get in trouble, and need rescuing.  Some Biden Leg Humper down at the local fire department or whoever rescued him, finds out that the victim isn't also a fellow humper, and get's excited at thought of creating a bill. That's all it would take. Authoritarians, usually leftists, love making laws which are ambivilent or that leave the application of it up to a person. It's how they have been eroding the whole "rule of law" thing in this country for a couple of centuries to make it back to being "rule of man."

So you're telling me that only republicans will be billed? Sorry, doubt that. Search and Rescue generally don't get political affiliation when rescuing someone. Congrats on being the first person with Biden Derangement Syndrome I've come across.

Also, shouldn't the "party of personal responsibility" be OK with taking responsibility for their own actions?

Finally, If you're in a situation dire enough to need rescuing, you shouldn't complain about the bill. When my furnace breaks down, I pay the repair guy even though I didn't do anything to break it.


I'm saying it's possible as the rule as written allows it. Just like if the wonk down at SAR HQ was a Trumpanzi and he found out that the victim was a pedophile that voted for Biden. There's nothing to stop it. I'm not sure where your head has been stuck for the recent past, but it might be pretty dark and unsanitary if you are unaware of cancel culture.
 
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