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(Slate)   We subsidize electric cars - why not electric bikes?   (slate.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Bicycle, Cycling, e-bikes, e-bike, Tax credit, e-bike market, Democratic Reps. Jimmy Panetta of California, new e-bike's purchase price  
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914 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Feb 2021 at 5:16 PM (11 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



Voting Results (Funniest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

 
2021-02-25 3:41:04 PM  
19 votes:
Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.
 
2021-02-25 5:19:26 PM  
9 votes:
Our rivers can't take anymore of those electric bikes.
 
2021-02-25 3:53:16 PM  
8 votes:
Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.
 
2021-02-25 4:10:04 PM  
7 votes:
I see the endorphin junkie set has already hiked their leg and peed all over the place. Poor thread never stood a chance.
 
2021-02-25 5:44:51 PM  
6 votes:

Cornelis de Gyselaer: jst3p: lilplatinum: jst3p: A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling

So it has climate control?

20 miles an hour (even up hill) feels like AC even when it's hot out.

Now try at negative twenty Fahrenheit


It probably still feels like AC....
 
2021-02-25 5:43:23 PM  
6 votes:
They're great for alcoholics who have lost their driver's licenses.
 
2021-02-25 5:18:42 PM  
6 votes:
someday we wheel get a brake because these ideas are always cyclical.
 
2021-02-25 7:02:23 PM  
5 votes:

Fart_Machine: Magnanimous_J: TWX: What license?  You don't need a license to ride a bicycle.

They should.

The people who ride bicycles tend to love tax and regulation for everyone else, so they should pay up too, farkers.

You know most people who ride also own a vehicle right?


I get that, but I don't understand why its an argument. I still have to tab the boat (if I had one), even though I have a car. Just because I bought the boots, I don't get the flip-flops for free.

Besides cyclists being consistently the rudest people in public, adding bike lanes is expensive, inconveniences drivers, removes parking and puts bikes and pedestrians dangerously close together. And these entitled little coonts get it all for free AND still don't follow the rules.

I absolutely farking hate them. Seattle has all kinds of weird, e-powered little scooters and unicycles and such, and everyone seems to work around each other just fine except for the farking cyclists.
 
2021-02-25 5:46:47 PM  
5 votes:

Smackledorfer: Wanderlusting: Because it snows in this country? And in the other half it gets so hot to make any vehicle without air conditioning a heat stroke on wheels? 

Texas farked around and found out - the hard way. And Phoenix farked around and found out - the hard way about density altitude and how it effects airlines in July.

Bikes are - at the very least - a seasonal item for the majority of this country and it's populace. 

For those in coastal California, have at it, but nobody it riding bikes in Atlanta in August when it's 85*F and 95% humidity.

"why shouldn't ebikes be subsidized" was the question.

I fail to see how "some places aren't suitable for ebikes some of the time" is a good answer.


Subsidizing the fraction of the fraction for those who will purchase it is neither smart nor essential. If you want to continue to subsidize electric cars, I'm all for it, but bikes are nonsense in this country and never will more than a small fraction of people use them.
 
2021-02-25 6:34:47 PM  
4 votes:

Tater1337: how about we stop subsidizing everything?

starting with oil subsidies


lolbertarian detected
 
2021-02-25 6:11:12 PM  
4 votes:

petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked


A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.
 
2021-02-25 5:38:45 PM  
4 votes:

jst3p: A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling


So it has climate control?
 
2021-02-25 5:30:49 PM  
4 votes:

Mikey1969: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

Yet more people will be willing to use their bike to run to the store and load up with groceries if they have an assist system on their bike. I don't get the hate for E-bikes, but it's pretty farking viscous.


Why not just use a car though, at that point?
 
2021-02-25 5:22:37 PM  
4 votes:
Ask the Stonecutters.
 
2021-02-25 5:19:15 PM  
4 votes:

Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).


True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.
 
2021-02-25 8:18:07 PM  
3 votes:
If you are under the age of 50 and need an electric bike instead of a regular one I pity you.

Unless you are disabled just say no.
 
2021-02-25 6:59:31 PM  
3 votes:

Explodo: whidbey: kindms: whidbey: kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.

ok boomer

born in 74. Wrong again

I wasn't wrong the first time.   You don't seem to have a clue as to why we have helmet laws for cyclists.

Lifelong mountain biker.  I never go for a ride without a helmet.  If someone proposes laws requiring helmets, I'll still tell them to go fark themselves(although much more politely most likely)


Pretty sure you're not going to get away with that in a major city.   Especially out west.  Where I live, there are no helmet laws, and it's about 50-50 between responsible cyclists and yokels who don't think they need it.   It doesn't even feel right not having one while riding.
 
2021-02-25 6:17:43 PM  
3 votes:

whidbey: joyride75: Gyrfalcon: If you need an "e-bike" just suck it up and get a motorcycle ffs.

Where I am, I don't need a license, insurance or a garage/parking space to store my 20mph e-bike. I can ride my e-bike all year round because they plow trails here. Nobody is riding a motorcycle in the middle of a MN winter.

Why would everybody need a motorcycle?

I think she was impugning your manhood tbf.

I

can do that by looking in the mirror every morning, TYVM! I don't need help.
 
2021-02-25 6:11:46 PM  
3 votes:

petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked


You're DEFINITELY a boomer when you describe bicycles (particularly e-bikes) as a child's toy
 
2021-02-25 6:05:15 PM  
3 votes:

whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.


I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked
 
2021-02-25 5:55:25 PM  
3 votes:

sokalel: whidbey: Everyone seems to want one of those fat(test) tire e-bikes these days.

It's like they don't seem to get it, and want a bike more like  a car.

And what's wrong with that?
I love mine.

[Fark user image 850x478]


They're annoying as hell, and not efficient in any way.  They have a granny gear and nothing else.  Seems like a waste of money to me.

But I'm glad you enjoy it.  At least you're helping in taking a car off the road.
 
2021-02-25 5:40:15 PM  
3 votes:

petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.


Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.
 
2021-02-25 5:35:12 PM  
3 votes:
Everyone seems to want one of those fat(test) tire e-bikes these days.

It's like they don't seem to get it, and want a bike more like  a car.
 
2021-02-25 8:34:39 PM  
2 votes:
We subsidize electric cars because they take gas powered cars off the road.  Subsidizing electric bikes will just make people fat.
 
2021-02-25 7:24:06 PM  
2 votes:

kindms: whidbey: kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.

ok boomer

born in 74. Wrong again


some of the young ones have been trained to take what the powers that be say as gospel, they have no sense of independence and are unable to make decisions on their own as to their well being and likely hood to survive

it's not a good trait
 
2021-02-25 7:07:40 PM  
2 votes:

Elliot8654: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

You're DEFINITELY a boomer when you describe bicycles (particularly e-bikes) as a child's toy


You can be nannies neighbor that always ratted us out for playing by the RR tracks.

/squishing pennies
 
2021-02-25 6:51:41 PM  
2 votes:

kindms: whidbey: kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.

ok boomer

born in 74. Wrong again


I wasn't wrong the first time.   You don't seem to have a clue as to why we have helmet laws for cyclists.
 
2021-02-25 6:46:42 PM  
2 votes:

ongbok: I'd love to have one. Man, put one of those nice big old school Huffy box seats on it so you are not killing your ass and balls, nice high handle bars, a nice back support coming up from the seat, that would be perfect.


um, that's called a hover round
 
2021-02-25 6:39:40 PM  
2 votes:

RevCarter: The e-bike isn't a replacement for a traditional bike.


It's definitely a replacement for a traditional bike, too-- and one that results in lower total emissions than a pedal-powered bicycle.
 
2021-02-25 6:39:02 PM  
2 votes:

Mikey1969: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

Yet more people will be willing to use their bike to run to the store and load up with groceries if they have an assist system on their bike. I don't get the hate for E-bikes, but it's pretty farking viscous.


They'd also need a trailer to attach to their bikes unless they do daily shopping.
 
2021-02-25 6:32:32 PM  
2 votes:

kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.


ok boomer
 
2021-02-25 6:31:26 PM  
2 votes:

whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.


I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.
 
2021-02-25 6:21:35 PM  
2 votes:

Cyberluddite: Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes. Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


That's not true... electric bikes are almost always better than regular bikes for both energy consumption and pollution.  It turns out that people are really inefficient at turning food into motion, and that making food takes more energy and produces more emissions than other energy sources, even ones as dirty as coal.

A human-powered bike will beat a car, but mostly because the bike is very light and low-speed compared to the car, not because humans are an efficient way to power it.  Replace the human with even a coal-powered e-bike, and the total emissions drop substantially.

There's still an argument to be made that humans need some exercise, and that if you get your exercise transporting yourself somewhere, this is better than exercising separately and THEN using some other form of transport... but if it's just "which is worse for the environment," the e-bike will have lower emissions and energy consumption than the human-powered bike.

A couple of citations, although I'm sure you can find more.
 
2021-02-25 6:15:51 PM  
2 votes:

petec: sdd2000: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Even if not required by law, there are reasons that they are mandated in some places and seriously recommended in other places.

If I'm storming down a mountain, yeah

just putzing around town, um, no

/as a teenager I was riding over 150 miles a week, for 5-6 years
//broke some bikes and got some stitches
///no broken bones


No, but you're a tool for referring to a legitimate form of transportation to a large portion of the human population as a 'child's toy'. And I'm not referring to third world countries, I'm talking about better developed countries than the USA like the Netherlands. Tool.
 
2021-02-25 6:15:44 PM  
2 votes:
Because cyclists are assholes.
 
2021-02-25 6:08:17 PM  
2 votes:
If you need an "e-bike" just suck it up and get a motorcycle ffs.
 
2021-02-25 5:46:20 PM  
2 votes:

jst3p: lilplatinum: jst3p: A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling

So it has climate control?

20 miles an hour (even up hill) feels like AC even when it's hot out.


Spoken like someone who never had to live in Houston in August.. (or in february apparently).
 
2021-02-25 5:42:15 PM  
2 votes:

petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.


Even if not required by law, there are reasons that they are mandated in some places and seriously recommended in other places.
 
2021-02-25 5:34:48 PM  
2 votes:

demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.


I like food delivery drivers threatening to run me down on their silent death bikes on the sidewalks, adds excitement to life.
 
2021-02-25 5:30:26 PM  
2 votes:
Because it snows in this country? And in the other half it gets so hot to make any vehicle without air conditioning a heat stroke on wheels? 

Texas farked around and found out - the hard way. And Phoenix farked around and found out - the hard way about density altitude and how it effects airlines in July.

Bikes are - at the very least - a seasonal item for the majority of this country and it's populace. 

For those in coastal California, have at it, but nobody it riding bikes in Atlanta in August when it's 85*F and 95% humidity.
 
2021-02-25 5:26:09 PM  
2 votes:
The subsidies would apply to $10,000 long-travel mountain e-bikes too.  That's far from their intended goal, but they don't yet specify that the bikes need to be "city" bikes.

As a mountain biker, I feel that I will someday need an e-bike when I'm too old to be able to get up hills in any sort of fun way anymore, but by then other joints may not work enough to ride anyway.  I do not begrudge those who use them, though there are great many bikers who do.

I don't think this is a good bill.  Subsidizing weekend fun toys is not good look.
 
2021-02-25 5:22:23 PM  
2 votes:

demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.


We all know electric unicycles are the conveyance of the future.

They're hitting 35mph.
 
2021-02-25 5:21:06 PM  
2 votes:

TWX: demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.

I'm frankly more concerned about the assholes that want to ride on their bikes the same speed as the cars are going but aren't willing to at least do the minimum of riding on the road and on the correct side of the road.

Far too many self-propelled bicycles are driven in the bike lane on the wrong side of the road or on the sidewalk.

Many cities are even painting arrows on the bike lanes but the riders are ignoring them and still doing it.


I have more of an issue with packs of riders who insist on riding 3-4 abreast, overflowing the bike lane, and slowing traffic. It's really fun when trying to drive up the canyons in the summer.

But yeah, I almost ran over some lady who was riding a normal bike and came flying down the sidewalk, on the wrong side of the road, coming from a blind corner due to a shop on the corner. Then I got the stinkeye from both her and her husband, even though I was the one following the rules of the road.
 
2021-02-26 12:40:21 AM  
1 vote:

Mikey1969: lilplatinum: Mikey1969: lilplatinum: demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.

I like food delivery drivers threatening to run me down on their silent death bikes on the sidewalks, adds excitement to life.

What, do your regular bikes have internal combustion engines, or something? Bikes have always been silent, except for when they have a horn or bell on them.

I Was referring to a nyc phenomenon where electric bike drivers like to try to run you down. Normies just run red lights but I've yet to be almost run down by them on sidewalks.

One more reason to stay away from NYC, sounds like. Good luck on the streets.


Small price to pay to not live in some useless flyover hellhole.
 
2021-02-25 10:13:11 PM  
1 vote:

whidbey: joyride75: Gyrfalcon: If you need an "e-bike" just suck it up and get a motorcycle ffs.

Where I am, I don't need a license, insurance or a garage/parking space to store my 20mph e-bike. I can ride my e-bike all year round because they plow trails here. Nobody is riding a motorcycle in the middle of a MN winter.

Why would everybody need a motorcycle?

I think she was impugning your manhood tbf.


You blew my cover!
 
2021-02-25 9:22:16 PM  
1 vote:

ongbok: I'd love to have one. Man, put one of those nice big old school Huffy box seats on it so you are not killing your ass and balls, nice high handle bars, a nice back support coming up from the seat, that would be perfect.


Hoverounds are already subsidized by Medicare.
 
2021-02-25 8:06:43 PM  
1 vote:

petec: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

Bicycle culture is crazy in the Netherlands, yet no helmets, even on the kids

[cdn.vox-cdn.com image 850x850]if I'm a boomer, you're my nannie


Anything but respecting the laws and the activism behind them in our own country.

It's almost as if you're a throwback to another time.
 
2021-02-25 7:53:55 PM  
1 vote:

petec: sdd2000: petec: Elliot8654: petec: Elliot8654: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

You're DEFINITELY a boomer when you describe bicycles (particularly e-bikes) as a child's toy

You can be nannies neighbor that always ratted us out for playing by the RR tracks.

/squishing pennies

"I had a bike as a kid, therefore bikes are kids toys" is a massive logical fallacy.

I was trolling

Still get a few hundred miles a year on my old Specialized Enduro

/not all of it needs a helmet

My original point was that if someone wanted to sell e-bike subsidies as a good idea, the picture of someone riding without a helmet is short sighted. But go ahead and be a troll.

Why is it bad idea? If they're not required I think more people would be turned off if they had to wear one. If you're worried about your riding ability you can always wear a helmet if you want.


I am agnostic on the subsidy being a good or bad idea. I am not agnostic on riding a bike, especially on city streets without a helmet. I think that is a bad idea.
 
2021-02-25 7:43:49 PM  
1 vote:

petec: Elliot8654: petec: Elliot8654: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

You're DEFINITELY a boomer when you describe bicycles (particularly e-bikes) as a child's toy

You can be nannies neighbor that always ratted us out for playing by the RR tracks.

/squishing pennies

"I had a bike as a kid, therefore bikes are kids toys" is a massive logical fallacy.

I was trolling

Still get a few hundred miles a year on my old Specialized Enduro

/not all of it needs a helmet


My original point was that if someone wanted to sell e-bike subsidies as a good idea, the picture of someone riding without a helmet is short sighted. But go ahead and be a troll.
 
2021-02-25 7:33:18 PM  
1 vote:
"I did something unsafely and I survived. Therefore safer alternatives are dumb" is not the smart argument people who make it think it is.
 
2021-02-25 7:10:38 PM  
1 vote:

kindms: Again I said overkill not unnecessary. And I dont think people should be MADE to wear a seatbelt by penalty of law

old people fall and hit their heads all the time, should we make them wear a helmet by law everyday ? I mean its safer no ? They break hips, surely we can make them wear protective gear or arrest them


What are the comparative numbers? We have over 30K deaths per year due to automobiles (not sure if all are in the automobile of that includes pedestrians killed by automobiles). And when the accident is investigated, it becomes clear that, had the driver or passenger worn a seat belt, the person would have survived. We should make it mandatory to wear seatbelts. Heck, cars ought to be designed so that it cannot function without seatbelts being properly utilized.
 
2021-02-25 7:10:02 PM  
1 vote:

kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.


Or maybe we are smarter than we used to be.
 
2021-02-25 6:56:49 PM  
1 vote:

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


Not necessarily.  There are people who are more willing to do some commutes on bike because having electric assist makes the commute possible, or at least less burdensome.

One girl i know bought a cargo e-bike.  She takes it shopping now.

And honestly, even if they don't commute, more people out exercising will be good for people's health.  I would just suggest that we only subsidize bikes that ASSIST the rider pedaling so that there's actual benefits to exercise.  Otherwise it'll just be overweight people pushing a throttle lever down the bike path.
 
2021-02-25 6:46:06 PM  
1 vote:

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


In fact once we say it this way, there ought to be a tax.
The human fuel replacement tax.
If the typical way would have been calorie powered, and you use some otehr form of fuel to power whatever that is. The replacement fuel/battery itself has a tax levied for using it instead of your own dam calories.

Tax e bikes, e scooters(not moped scooters, calorie powered ones), e boards, and all that human fuel replacement systems bs.
If you need a mobility assistance device that's one thing, shiat we should pay for that for you, but if you're just, weee look at me not put effort into it, then pay up for that wastefulness already.
 
2021-02-25 6:41:41 PM  
1 vote:

Cornelis de Gyselaer: kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.

See seat belts


Again I said overkill not unnecessary. And I dont think people should be MADE to wear a seatbelt by penalty of law

old people fall and hit their heads all the time, should we make them wear a helmet by law everyday ? I mean its safer no ? They break hips, surely we can make them wear protective gear or arrest them
 
2021-02-25 6:40:34 PM  
1 vote:

raygundan: Cyberluddite: Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes. Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

That's not true... electric bikes are almost always better than regular bikes for both energy consumption and pollution.  It turns out that people are really inefficient at turning food into motion, and that making food takes more energy and produces more emissions than other energy sources, even ones as dirty as coal.

A human-powered bike will beat a car, but mostly because the bike is very light and low-speed compared to the car, not because humans are an efficient way to power it.  Replace the human with even a coal-powered e-bike, and the total emissions drop substantially.

There's still an argument to be made that humans need some exercise, and that if you get your exercise transporting yourself somewhere, this is better than exercising separately and THEN using some other form of transport... but if it's just "which is worse for the environment," the e-bike will have lower emissions and energy consumption than the human-powered bike.

A couple of citations, although I'm sure you can find more.



Excuse me, my good man.  I'd like to purchase one of your coal powered bikes.
 
2021-02-25 6:40:23 PM  
1 vote:

TWX: What license?  You don't need a license to ride a bicycle.


They should.

The people who ride bicycles tend to love tax and regulation for everyone else, so they should pay up too, farkers.
 
2021-02-25 6:33:47 PM  
1 vote:
how about we stop subsidizing everything?

starting with oil subsidies
 
2021-02-25 6:32:52 PM  
1 vote:

kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.


See seat belts
 
2021-02-25 6:21:23 PM  
1 vote:

dericwater: JesseL: Would all the stop-liking-what-I-don't-like cyclists feel better if we called e-bikes something like e-mopeds or something?

They're obviously not bicycles. Nobody else cares if they fail to live up to what you like about bicycles.

Unless someone modded them, they're bicycles. The electrical motor doesn't kick in until you actually pedal. They do help some, for sure, especially up steep hills, and it does take a bit getting used to because the kick is sometimes quite a push, which makes them difficult to handle when trying to go slowly in tight areas.


The only practical reason I would ever get one is to tool around the steep winding mountain rounds to get to some cool National Forest viewpoints and summits. The roads are usually gated, and riding 20 miles up that terrain on a standard bike would not be a fun part of that trip.
 
2021-02-25 6:14:48 PM  
1 vote:

joyride75: Gyrfalcon: If you need an "e-bike" just suck it up and get a motorcycle ffs.

Where I am, I don't need a license, insurance or a garage/parking space to store my 20mph e-bike. I can ride my e-bike all year round because they plow trails here. Nobody is riding a motorcycle in the middle of a MN winter.

Why would everybody need a motorcycle?


I think she was impugning your manhood tbf.
 
2021-02-25 6:10:39 PM  
1 vote:

sdd2000: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Even if not required by law, there are reasons that they are mandated in some places and seriously recommended in other places.


If I'm storming down a mountain, yeah

just putzing around town, um, no

/as a teenager I was riding over 150 miles a week, for 5-6 years
//broke some bikes and got some stitches
///no broken bones
 
2021-02-25 5:49:58 PM  
1 vote:

Wanderlusting: jst3p: 20 miles an hour (even up hill) feels like AC even when it's hot out.

EL EM AYE OH ... I can assure you anywhere above 85* ambient or 80% humidity would disagree with that statement. Drive on an Atlanta freeway at 75mph in the summer and you'll find wind does exactly fark and all to cooling you down. Getting blasted by a hair dryer isn't fun at any speed.


Not to mention radiated asphalt hell
 
2021-02-25 5:48:37 PM  
1 vote:

jst3p: 20 miles an hour (even up hill) feels like AC even when it's hot out.


EL EM AYE OH ... I can assure you anywhere above 85* ambient or 80% humidity would disagree with that statement. Drive on an Atlanta freeway at 75mph in the summer and you'll find wind does exactly fark and all to cooling you down. Getting blasted by a hair dryer isn't fun at any speed.
 
2021-02-25 5:47:03 PM  
1 vote:

Porous Horace: They're great for alcoholics who have lost their driver's licenses.


Don't try this in Germany, you get your driver's license suspended for drunk driving same as if driving.
 
2021-02-25 5:41:32 PM  
1 vote:

jst3p: lilplatinum: jst3p: A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling

So it has climate control?

20 miles an hour (even up hill) feels like AC even when it's hot out.


Now try at negative twenty Fahrenheit
 
2021-02-25 5:40:59 PM  
1 vote:

Explodo: The subsidies would apply to $10,000 long-travel mountain e-bikes too.  That's far from their intended goal, but they don't yet specify that the bikes need to be "city" bikes.

As a mountain biker, I feel that I will someday need an e-bike when I'm too old to be able to get up hills in any sort of fun way anymore, but by then other joints may not work enough to ride anyway.  I do not begrudge those who use them, though there are great many bikers who do.

I don't think this is a good bill.  Subsidizing weekend fun toys is not good look.


As another mountain biker I'm conflicted about e(mountain)bikes.
They are cheating because you don't earn you descent... and I cringed slightly when I saw the first one at my local trailhead.
But the times I've demoed them they are incredibly fun and you can still get a workout.
I'm not getting any younger so my next bike might well have a motor.
The dangerous endgame is that they become so similar in appearance to regular MTBs and so easy to modify to full throttle (non pedal assist) that trails start closing because they turn into electric dirt bike trails.
 
2021-02-25 5:40:19 PM  
1 vote:

lilplatinum: jst3p: A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling

So it has climate control?


20 miles an hour (even up hill) feels like AC even when it's hot out.
 
2021-02-25 5:37:54 PM  
1 vote:
WTF is wrong with you people?
The bus will take you were the bicycle does
Now THIS is actually something that will bring you somewhere.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en​/​motorcycles/livewire.html

Leaves the Zero behind
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/moto​r​cycle-reviews/2020-harley-davidson-liv​ewire-vs-zero-motorcycles-srf-premium/​

Subsidizing this can get people out of cars in cities.  Bicycles are an alternative to shoes.
 
2021-02-25 5:26:22 PM  
1 vote:
Those bikes are already at the correct price point for society to have an advantage so there is no need to subsidize them.
 
2021-02-25 5:23:50 PM  
1 vote:
Bicycles are being stolen left and right at the current time.  It's not safe to leave your bike chained up anywhere anymore.  We don't need a government subsidized thief enablement program.
 
2021-02-25 5:19:51 PM  
1 vote:

demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.


You need wider bike paths.
 
2021-02-25 5:08:34 PM  
1 vote:
The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.
 
2021-02-25 3:58:07 PM  
1 vote:

TWX: demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.

I'm frankly more concerned about the assholes that want to ride on their bikes the same speed as the cars are going but aren't willing to at least do the minimum of riding on the road and on the correct side of the road.

Far too many self-propelled bicycles are driven in the bike lane on the wrong side of the road or on the sidewalk.

Many cities are even painting arrows on the bike lanes but the riders are ignoring them and still doing it.


Needs to be treated like a car moving violation, with fines and points on your license.
 
2021-02-25 3:54:48 PM  
1 vote:
Because the other type of bike isn't environmentally disastrous.
 
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