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(Slate)   We subsidize electric cars - why not electric bikes?   (slate.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Bicycle, Cycling, e-bikes, e-bike, Tax credit, e-bike market, Democratic Reps. Jimmy Panetta of California, new e-bike's purchase price  
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910 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Feb 2021 at 5:16 PM (10 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



230 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-02-25 3:41:04 PM  
Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.
 
TWX [TotalFark]
2021-02-25 3:52:16 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.


I'm frankly more concerned about the assholes that want to ride on their bikes the same speed as the cars are going but aren't willing to at least do the minimum of riding on the road and on the correct side of the road.

Far too many self-propelled bicycles are driven in the bike lane on the wrong side of the road or on the sidewalk.

Many cities are even painting arrows on the bike lanes but the riders are ignoring them and still doing it.
 
2021-02-25 3:53:16 PM  
Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.
 
2021-02-25 3:54:48 PM  
Because the other type of bike isn't environmentally disastrous.
 
2021-02-25 3:58:07 PM  

TWX: demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.

I'm frankly more concerned about the assholes that want to ride on their bikes the same speed as the cars are going but aren't willing to at least do the minimum of riding on the road and on the correct side of the road.

Far too many self-propelled bicycles are driven in the bike lane on the wrong side of the road or on the sidewalk.

Many cities are even painting arrows on the bike lanes but the riders are ignoring them and still doing it.


Needs to be treated like a car moving violation, with fines and points on your license.
 
2021-02-25 4:10:04 PM  
I see the endorphin junkie set has already hiked their leg and peed all over the place. Poor thread never stood a chance.
 
TWX [TotalFark]
2021-02-25 4:14:03 PM  

ShavedOrangutan: TWX: demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.

I'm frankly more concerned about the assholes that want to ride on their bikes the same speed as the cars are going but aren't willing to at least do the minimum of riding on the road and on the correct side of the road.

Far too many self-propelled bicycles are driven in the bike lane on the wrong side of the road or on the sidewalk.

Many cities are even painting arrows on the bike lanes but the riders are ignoring them and still doing it.

Needs to be treated like a car moving violation, with fines and points on your license.


What license?  You don't need a license to ride a bicycle.

It needs to be treated like a car moving violation, but on a repeat occurrence within a certain period of time the bicycle needs to be impounded.
 
2021-02-25 4:14:29 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


The idea isn't that electric bikes replace regular bikes, it's that they replace cars for short trips.  Just about anywhere I typically go is within 10 miles of my home. I'm in a city, so using an ebike in the bike lanes isn't that much slower than driving.  It may even be faster since parking it should be easier.
 
2021-02-25 4:37:01 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


Which is why we should subsidize actual bicycles!
 
2021-02-25 5:03:42 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).
 
2021-02-25 5:08:34 PM  
The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.
 
2021-02-25 5:18:42 PM  
someday we wheel get a brake because these ideas are always cyclical.
 
2021-02-25 5:19:15 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).


True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.
 
2021-02-25 5:19:26 PM  
Our rivers can't take anymore of those electric bikes.
 
2021-02-25 5:19:51 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.


You need wider bike paths.
 
2021-02-25 5:21:06 PM  

TWX: demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.

I'm frankly more concerned about the assholes that want to ride on their bikes the same speed as the cars are going but aren't willing to at least do the minimum of riding on the road and on the correct side of the road.

Far too many self-propelled bicycles are driven in the bike lane on the wrong side of the road or on the sidewalk.

Many cities are even painting arrows on the bike lanes but the riders are ignoring them and still doing it.


I have more of an issue with packs of riders who insist on riding 3-4 abreast, overflowing the bike lane, and slowing traffic. It's really fun when trying to drive up the canyons in the summer.

But yeah, I almost ran over some lady who was riding a normal bike and came flying down the sidewalk, on the wrong side of the road, coming from a blind corner due to a shop on the corner. Then I got the stinkeye from both her and her husband, even though I was the one following the rules of the road.
 
2021-02-25 5:22:23 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.


We all know electric unicycles are the conveyance of the future.

They're hitting 35mph.
 
2021-02-25 5:22:34 PM  

Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.


I'd ride an ebike to work.

I won't bike to work because being sweaty isn't acceptable.
 
2021-02-25 5:22:37 PM  
Ask the Stonecutters.
 
2021-02-25 5:22:59 PM  

Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.


Yet more people will be willing to use their bike to run to the store and load up with groceries if they have an assist system on their bike. I don't get the hate for E-bikes, but it's pretty farking viscous.
 
2021-02-25 5:23:50 PM  
Bicycles are being stolen left and right at the current time.  It's not safe to leave your bike chained up anywhere anymore.  We don't need a government subsidized thief enablement program.
 
2021-02-25 5:25:46 PM  

Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.


For most of the world un-powered equipment is not a suitable replacement for powered, and you're smart enough to know that.
 
2021-02-25 5:26:09 PM  
The subsidies would apply to $10,000 long-travel mountain e-bikes too.  That's far from their intended goal, but they don't yet specify that the bikes need to be "city" bikes.

As a mountain biker, I feel that I will someday need an e-bike when I'm too old to be able to get up hills in any sort of fun way anymore, but by then other joints may not work enough to ride anyway.  I do not begrudge those who use them, though there are great many bikers who do.

I don't think this is a good bill.  Subsidizing weekend fun toys is not good look.
 
2021-02-25 5:26:22 PM  
Those bikes are already at the correct price point for society to have an advantage so there is no need to subsidize them.
 
2021-02-25 5:28:30 PM  
I bought an electric bike a few years ago, because my commute is just long enough that I couldn't do it comfortably on a regular bike, but I could do it on an electric bike.

I also found that it sometimes comes in handy when riding on roads with lots of cars, because if I need to, I can crank the electric assist to max for a few seconds so that I can get out of the way of the cars as quickly as possible.
 
2021-02-25 5:29:03 PM  
Because the electric bicycle makers don't have enough money to buy their own congresspeople and senators. Next question.
 
2021-02-25 5:29:42 PM  
First world problems..
 
2021-02-25 5:29:46 PM  
As an e-bike owner these are my observations:

Mine is "pedal assist" which means I have to put some effort in before the motor engages. So I still get a bit of a workout (I still build up a sweat and burn calories).

I live in an area with a LOT of hills, so without it the amount of time I would spend out on the bike is probably zero minutes, with it I get out for a few hours a week in the summer.

The biking community I have run into have been far more supportive than the representation here at fark, most "real" bikers have been pretty supportive and accepting. I expected a lot more bile spewing.

A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling (mainly hills).

I can go a lot faster at a sustained pace on my e-bike than I could on a real bike so... it's more fun!"

My e-bike has a larger carbon footprint than a real bike, but still less than my car by a long shot.

Haters can hate all they want.
 
2021-02-25 5:29:56 PM  

Explodo: The subsidies would apply to $10,000 long-travel mountain e-bikes too.  That's far from their intended goal, but they don't yet specify that the bikes need to be "city" bikes.

As a mountain biker, I feel that I will someday need an e-bike when I'm too old to be able to get up hills in any sort of fun way anymore, but by then other joints may not work enough to ride anyway.  I do not begrudge those who use them, though there are great many bikers who do.

I don't think this is a good bill.  Subsidizing weekend fun toys is not good look.


I have a bike coming my way, and it's a mountain e-bike. I have a lot of weight and muscle mass to gain back now that the chemo is almost over, and I don't want to over-extend myself and get stuck somewhere. Won't be riding trails for awhile, but the idea will still work in town. If I go on a ride and neglect to plan for the trip back, I can still get home. And then yeah, later on it will help with the up parts of the trails so that I can enjoy the downs even more. :-)
 
2021-02-25 5:30:12 PM  
Just yesterday I watch a guy in a full face helmet with a full suspension mountain bike do a faceplant as he attempted to hop a small curb.  After picking himself up he zoomed off at maximum speed on the dirt trail.   He did not engender confidence.
 
2021-02-25 5:30:26 PM  
Because it snows in this country? And in the other half it gets so hot to make any vehicle without air conditioning a heat stroke on wheels? 

Texas farked around and found out - the hard way. And Phoenix farked around and found out - the hard way about density altitude and how it effects airlines in July.

Bikes are - at the very least - a seasonal item for the majority of this country and it's populace. 

For those in coastal California, have at it, but nobody it riding bikes in Atlanta in August when it's 85*F and 95% humidity.
 
2021-02-25 5:30:49 PM  

Mikey1969: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

Yet more people will be willing to use their bike to run to the store and load up with groceries if they have an assist system on their bike. I don't get the hate for E-bikes, but it's pretty farking viscous.


Why not just use a car though, at that point?
 
2021-02-25 5:31:35 PM  

Mikey1969: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

Yet more people will be willing to use their bike to run to the store and load up with groceries if they have an assist system on their bike. I don't get the hate for E-bikes, but it's pretty farking viscous.


My town is great for biking - tons of off-street paths, and enough on-street traffic that cars are pretty well aware of bikers at intersections or turns.

The ebikes on paths are a hassle because they typically roll MUCH faster than the human powered ones. The paths are used by walkers, with kids and dogs too. The differential between them an conventional bikers is already a bit of a hassle & danger. Ebikes going 20mph+ regardless of incline are worse. They seem less likely to slow when passing too.
 
2021-02-25 5:31:42 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


E-bikes make it possible to bike further. Ihave an e-bike and before COVID I would bike 10 miles to and from work. That's doable on a normal bike, but it's. wildly different experience, especially with hills and traffic.
 
2021-02-25 5:32:37 PM  

proteus_b: Mikey1969: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

Yet more people will be willing to use their bike to run to the store and load up with groceries if they have an assist system on their bike. I don't get the hate for E-bikes, but it's pretty farking viscous.

Why not just use a car though, at that point?


Because the e-bike is still better for the environment?
 
2021-02-25 5:33:08 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


But if I take my e-bike to the corner store instead of my e-car that's an even better cut in emissions.
 
2021-02-25 5:33:14 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


Good point. Here in hilly San Francisco, e-bikes are a godsend for those of us who might have to go up Nob Hill or *gak, huff, huff, puff* Russian Hill.
 
2021-02-25 5:33:44 PM  
Sorry about the chemo.  If your year is any indication, you only have 5 years on me.  Building the endurance is much harder at this age.  I've definitely thought of e-bikes as possible stepping-stones to regular bikes for a lot of people, but for older folks it's probably a one-way street.

I will resist any electrical crap on my bike for as long as I can, but time has its ways.
 
2021-02-25 5:34:37 PM  

OccamsWhiskers: Mikey1969: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

Yet more people will be willing to use their bike to run to the store and load up with groceries if they have an assist system on their bike. I don't get the hate for E-bikes, but it's pretty farking viscous.

My town is great for biking - tons of off-street paths, and enough on-street traffic that cars are pretty well aware of bikers at intersections or turns.

The ebikes on paths are a hassle because they typically roll MUCH faster than the human powered ones. The paths are used by walkers, with kids and dogs too. The differential between them an conventional bikers is already a bit of a hassle & danger. Ebikes going 20mph+ regardless of incline are worse. They seem less likely to slow when passing too.


Yes, people could be more considerate, but that still doesn't explain Fark's response to them.
 
2021-02-25 5:34:48 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.


I like food delivery drivers threatening to run me down on their silent death bikes on the sidewalks, adds excitement to life.
 
2021-02-25 5:35:12 PM  
Everyone seems to want one of those fat(test) tire e-bikes these days.

It's like they don't seem to get it, and want a bike more like  a car.
 
2021-02-25 5:35:38 PM  

dericwater: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Good point. Here in hilly San Francisco, e-bikes are a godsend for those of us who might have to go up Nob Hill or *gak, huff, huff, puff* Russian Hill.


Or Filbert
Only nuts try that one
 
2021-02-25 5:35:59 PM  

detonator: First world problems..


Seriously, right?
 
2021-02-25 5:36:42 PM  

sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.


Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.
 
2021-02-25 5:37:04 PM  

whidbey: Everyone seems to want one of those fat(test) tire e-bikes these days.

It's like they don't seem to get it, and want a bike more like  a car.


Yeah, I don't get the fat tire thing but to each their own. Mine is built on a regular mountain bike frame (the last e-bike Diamondback made as far as I know) but the battery is a dead giveaway. My next one will be completely stealth as far as looks are concerned.
 
2021-02-25 5:37:12 PM  

Wanderlusting: Because it snows in this country? And in the other half it gets so hot to make any vehicle without air conditioning a heat stroke on wheels? 

Texas farked around and found out - the hard way. And Phoenix farked around and found out - the hard way about density altitude and how it effects airlines in July.

Bikes are - at the very least - a seasonal item for the majority of this country and it's populace. 

For those in coastal California, have at it, but nobody it riding bikes in Atlanta in August when it's 85*F and 95% humidity.


"why shouldn't ebikes be subsidized" was the question.

I fail to see how "some places aren't suitable for ebikes some of the time" is a good answer.
 
2021-02-25 5:37:54 PM  
WTF is wrong with you people?
The bus will take you were the bicycle does
Now THIS is actually something that will bring you somewhere.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en​/​motorcycles/livewire.html

Leaves the Zero behind
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/moto​r​cycle-reviews/2020-harley-davidson-liv​ewire-vs-zero-motorcycles-srf-premium/​

Subsidizing this can get people out of cars in cities.  Bicycles are an alternative to shoes.
 
2021-02-25 5:38:01 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Huh
 
2021-02-25 5:38:45 PM  

jst3p: A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling


So it has climate control?
 
2021-02-25 5:40:15 PM  

petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.


Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.
 
2021-02-25 5:40:19 PM  

lilplatinum: jst3p: A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling

So it has climate control?


20 miles an hour (even up hill) feels like AC even when it's hot out.
 
2021-02-25 5:40:59 PM  

Explodo: The subsidies would apply to $10,000 long-travel mountain e-bikes too.  That's far from their intended goal, but they don't yet specify that the bikes need to be "city" bikes.

As a mountain biker, I feel that I will someday need an e-bike when I'm too old to be able to get up hills in any sort of fun way anymore, but by then other joints may not work enough to ride anyway.  I do not begrudge those who use them, though there are great many bikers who do.

I don't think this is a good bill.  Subsidizing weekend fun toys is not good look.


As another mountain biker I'm conflicted about e(mountain)bikes.
They are cheating because you don't earn you descent... and I cringed slightly when I saw the first one at my local trailhead.
But the times I've demoed them they are incredibly fun and you can still get a workout.
I'm not getting any younger so my next bike might well have a motor.
The dangerous endgame is that they become so similar in appearance to regular MTBs and so easy to modify to full throttle (non pedal assist) that trails start closing because they turn into electric dirt bike trails.
 
2021-02-25 5:41:28 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles


Bicycles are not a replacement for larger passenger vehicles.

Supplemental, maybe, but not a replacement.
=Smidge=
 
2021-02-25 5:41:32 PM  

jst3p: lilplatinum: jst3p: A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling

So it has climate control?

20 miles an hour (even up hill) feels like AC even when it's hot out.


Now try at negative twenty Fahrenheit
 
2021-02-25 5:41:56 PM  
Does David Zipper own stock in an electric bike company?
 
2021-02-25 5:42:15 PM  

petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.


Even if not required by law, there are reasons that they are mandated in some places and seriously recommended in other places.
 
2021-02-25 5:43:23 PM  
They're great for alcoholics who have lost their driver's licenses.
 
2021-02-25 5:43:26 PM  

Uncontrolled_Jibe: WTF is wrong with you people?
The bus will take you were the bicycle does

*Snipped because I'm sure subsidizing those things is good too*

Bicycles are an alternative to shoes.


The parts of your post I didn't snip are incredibly stupid.

Not everyone in the country lives near a bus stop. I'm 7 miles away from the closest bus stop.

Walking to the bus stop alone would take two hours.
 
2021-02-25 5:44:29 PM  
because they wouldn't get used enough?
 
2021-02-25 5:44:51 PM  

Cornelis de Gyselaer: jst3p: lilplatinum: jst3p: A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling

So it has climate control?

20 miles an hour (even up hill) feels like AC even when it's hot out.

Now try at negative twenty Fahrenheit


It probably still feels like AC....
 
2021-02-25 5:45:27 PM  

whidbey: Everyone seems to want one of those fat(test) tire e-bikes these days.

It's like they don't seem to get it, and want a bike more like  a car.


And what's wrong with that?
I love mine.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-02-25 5:45:37 PM  

dr_blasto: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Which is why we should subsidize actual bicycles!


China did that and they have a huuuuge bicycle graveyard now.
 
2021-02-25 5:46:20 PM  

jst3p: lilplatinum: jst3p: A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling

So it has climate control?

20 miles an hour (even up hill) feels like AC even when it's hot out.


Spoken like someone who never had to live in Houston in August.. (or in february apparently).
 
2021-02-25 5:46:47 PM  

Smackledorfer: Wanderlusting: Because it snows in this country? And in the other half it gets so hot to make any vehicle without air conditioning a heat stroke on wheels? 

Texas farked around and found out - the hard way. And Phoenix farked around and found out - the hard way about density altitude and how it effects airlines in July.

Bikes are - at the very least - a seasonal item for the majority of this country and it's populace. 

For those in coastal California, have at it, but nobody it riding bikes in Atlanta in August when it's 85*F and 95% humidity.

"why shouldn't ebikes be subsidized" was the question.

I fail to see how "some places aren't suitable for ebikes some of the time" is a good answer.


Subsidizing the fraction of the fraction for those who will purchase it is neither smart nor essential. If you want to continue to subsidize electric cars, I'm all for it, but bikes are nonsense in this country and never will more than a small fraction of people use them.
 
2021-02-25 5:47:03 PM  

Porous Horace: They're great for alcoholics who have lost their driver's licenses.


Don't try this in Germany, you get your driver's license suspended for drunk driving same as if driving.
 
2021-02-25 5:47:21 PM  

lilplatinum: jst3p: lilplatinum: jst3p: A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling

So it has climate control?

20 miles an hour (even up hill) feels like AC even when it's hot out.

Spoken like someone who never had to live in Houston in August.. (or in february apparently).


Fair enough, humidity isn't a concern here.
 
2021-02-25 5:48:31 PM  

lilplatinum: Porous Horace: They're great for alcoholics who have lost their driver's licenses.

Don't try this in Germany, you get your driver's license suspended for drunk driving same as if driving.


We have people given dui on riding lawnmowers quite often
 
2021-02-25 5:48:37 PM  

jst3p: 20 miles an hour (even up hill) feels like AC even when it's hot out.


EL EM AYE OH ... I can assure you anywhere above 85* ambient or 80% humidity would disagree with that statement. Drive on an Atlanta freeway at 75mph in the summer and you'll find wind does exactly fark and all to cooling you down. Getting blasted by a hair dryer isn't fun at any speed.
 
2021-02-25 5:49:58 PM  

Wanderlusting: jst3p: 20 miles an hour (even up hill) feels like AC even when it's hot out.

EL EM AYE OH ... I can assure you anywhere above 85* ambient or 80% humidity would disagree with that statement. Drive on an Atlanta freeway at 75mph in the summer and you'll find wind does exactly fark and all to cooling you down. Getting blasted by a hair dryer isn't fun at any speed.


Not to mention radiated asphalt hell
 
2021-02-25 5:51:38 PM  

Wanderlusting: jst3p: 20 miles an hour (even up hill) feels like AC even when it's hot out.

EL EM AYE OH ... I can assure you anywhere above 85* ambient or 80% humidity would disagree with that statement. Drive on an Atlanta freeway at 75mph in the summer and you'll find wind does exactly fark and all to cooling you down. Getting blasted by a hair dryer isn't fun at any speed.


Fair enough "Not good for e-biking" is way down at LEAST below number 431 when it comes to "reasons not to live in Atlanta".
 
2021-02-25 5:51:57 PM  

Wanderlusting: Smackledorfer: Wanderlusting: Because it snows in this country? And in the other half it gets so hot to make any vehicle without air conditioning a heat stroke on wheels? 

Texas farked around and found out - the hard way. And Phoenix farked around and found out - the hard way about density altitude and how it effects airlines in July.

Bikes are - at the very least - a seasonal item for the majority of this country and it's populace. 

For those in coastal California, have at it, but nobody it riding bikes in Atlanta in August when it's 85*F and 95% humidity.

"why shouldn't ebikes be subsidized" was the question.

I fail to see how "some places aren't suitable for ebikes some of the time" is a good answer.

Subsidizing the fraction of the fraction for those who will purchase it is neither smart nor essential. If you want to continue to subsidize electric cars, I'm all for it, but bikes are nonsense in this country and never will more than a small fraction of people use them.


This still makes no sense.

The amount of money spent subsidizing is going to be lower the smaller the population who will take advantage of it. There isn't somehow an increased amount of waste to a program just because a smaller fraction of the population will use it. So the subsidy doesn't become less smart the fewer people it applies to, nor any less essential to those people.

Is your gripe just "it won't help me so why bother" or do you feel there is some significant opportunity cost here?
 
2021-02-25 5:55:25 PM  

sokalel: whidbey: Everyone seems to want one of those fat(test) tire e-bikes these days.

It's like they don't seem to get it, and want a bike more like  a car.

And what's wrong with that?
I love mine.

[Fark user image 850x478]


They're annoying as hell, and not efficient in any way.  They have a granny gear and nothing else.  Seems like a waste of money to me.

But I'm glad you enjoy it.  At least you're helping in taking a car off the road.
 
2021-02-25 5:57:22 PM  

Cyberluddite: True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.


If you don't have to transport shiat to work bulky enough to make a bike of any kind incapable of the task, public transit is also an option for you, generally speaking.  Like, if you live in an area where keeping the e-bike charged and running would be viable in the first place, which is to say an urban area.

And, yeah, this isn't subsidized because there's no situation where an e-bike specifically is preferable to the normal kind as far as the interests of any level of government or the public is concerned.  I'd add that just subsidizing people's personal transportation in general without limiting it to a specific thing wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea, though.  Personal transportation increases employability and social mobility as well as literal mobility, even just an old bicycle can be the difference between being homeless and maintaining the income for a place of residence.
 
2021-02-25 5:58:14 PM  

Cornelis de Gyselaer: dericwater: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Good point. Here in hilly San Francisco, e-bikes are a godsend for those of us who might have to go up Nob Hill or *gak, huff, huff, puff* Russian Hill.

Or Filbert
Only nuts try that one


What am I if I go up cadillac mountain, starting out at the boat ramp in bar harbor so I'm sure I was at sea level when I began?
 
2021-02-25 5:58:26 PM  
Supply chain problems make this a non-issue right now. However, I'd like to see this extended to non-electric bikes for purely selfish reasons - I want a mountain bike. Tax incenticve or not, nothing is in stocknanyway and it's looking like 8-10 months backorder.
 
2021-02-25 6:00:38 PM  

bhcompy: Bicycles are being stolen left and right at the current time.  It's not safe to leave your bike chained up anywhere anymore.  We don't need a government subsidized thief enablement program.


This. There's an increase of thefts of both regular bikes and e-Bikes in my area.
 
2021-02-25 6:01:33 PM  
I'd love to have one. Man, put one of those nice big old school Huffy box seats on it so you are not killing your ass and balls, nice high handle bars, a nice back support coming up from the seat, that would be perfect.
 
2021-02-25 6:01:37 PM  

jst3p: whidbey: Everyone seems to want one of those fat(test) tire e-bikes these days.

It's like they don't seem to get it, and want a bike more like  a car.

Yeah, I don't get the fat tire thing but to each their own. Mine is built on a regular mountain bike frame (the last e-bike Diamondback made as far as I know) but the battery is a dead giveaway. My next one will be completely stealth as far as looks are concerned.


Fat tires are good in deep gravel, sand, mud, and snow. Stuff that just stops you in your tracks with skinny tires, you can ride right through.
 
2021-02-25 6:02:06 PM  

Cornelis de Gyselaer: lilplatinum: Porous Horace: They're great for alcoholics who have lost their driver's licenses.

Don't try this in Germany, you get your driver's license suspended for drunk driving same as if driving.

We have people given dui on riding lawnmowers quite often


I'm DRUNK
Youtube aLf9aqYLVTk
 
2021-02-25 6:03:27 PM  

whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.


Sorry but partners secretary a few years ago buried a 17 year old son from a bike accident, that he most likely would have survived with a helmet
 
2021-02-25 6:03:55 PM  

lilplatinum: jst3p: A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling

So it has climate control?


You get a nice breeze at 25mph.
 
2021-02-25 6:05:04 PM  

petec: Cornelis de Gyselaer: dericwater: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Good point. Here in hilly San Francisco, e-bikes are a godsend for those of us who might have to go up Nob Hill or *gak, huff, huff, puff* Russian Hill.

Or Filbert
Only nuts try that one

What am I if I go up cadillac mountain, starting out at the boat ramp in bar harbor so I'm sure I was at sea level when I began?


Not to thread jack but someone did an awesome VR environment for Cadillac Mountain (SteamVR environment).  I've used it as a "relax" environment.
 
2021-02-25 6:05:15 PM  

whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.


I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked
 
2021-02-25 6:08:17 PM  
If you need an "e-bike" just suck it up and get a motorcycle ffs.
 
2021-02-25 6:08:46 PM  

fo_sho!: Explodo: The subsidies would apply to $10,000 long-travel mountain e-bikes too.  That's far from their intended goal, but they don't yet specify that the bikes need to be "city" bikes.

As a mountain biker, I feel that I will someday need an e-bike when I'm too old to be able to get up hills in any sort of fun way anymore, but by then other joints may not work enough to ride anyway.  I do not begrudge those who use them, though there are great many bikers who do.

I don't think this is a good bill.  Subsidizing weekend fun toys is not good look.

As another mountain biker I'm conflicted about e(mountain)bikes.
They are cheating because you don't earn you descent... and I cringed slightly when I saw the first one at my local trailhead.
But the times I've demoed them they are incredibly fun and you can still get a workout.
I'm not getting any younger so my next bike might well have a motor.
The dangerous endgame is that they become so similar in appearance to regular MTBs and so easy to modify to full throttle (non pedal assist) that trails start closing because they turn into electric dirt bike trails.


i'm all for eMTB for those who want it, but they TEAR UP the trails around here especially in the winter.  keep those to fire roads and off the single track.  couldnt care less about the cheating up hill (to each their own), just the quality of the trails and ability to maintain.

most parks around here prohibit their use, but i've never seen a ranger stop anyone on one of them.

/shred on
 
2021-02-25 6:10:39 PM  

sdd2000: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Even if not required by law, there are reasons that they are mandated in some places and seriously recommended in other places.


If I'm storming down a mountain, yeah

just putzing around town, um, no

/as a teenager I was riding over 150 miles a week, for 5-6 years
//broke some bikes and got some stitches
///no broken bones
 
2021-02-25 6:11:12 PM  

petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked


A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.
 
2021-02-25 6:11:16 PM  

Gyrfalcon: If you need an "e-bike" just suck it up and get a motorcycle ffs.


No thanks.
 
2021-02-25 6:11:43 PM  
Would all the stop-liking-what-I-don't-like cyclists feel better if we called e-bikes something like e-mopeds or something?

They're obviously not bicycles. Nobody else cares if they fail to live up to what you like about bicycles.
 
2021-02-25 6:11:46 PM  

petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked


You're DEFINITELY a boomer when you describe bicycles (particularly e-bikes) as a child's toy
 
2021-02-25 6:12:44 PM  

dericwater: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Good point. Here in hilly San Francisco, e-bikes are a godsend for those of us who might have to go up Nob Hill or *gak, huff, huff, puff* Russian Hill.


Does that really work?  (Serious question, I'm really wondering about that.)  I mean, I have an e-scooter, and it works great on the flat parts of town (and in fact in the pre-COVID era when I was actually going into the office to work, I'd ride the thing to work rather than driving 80% of the time as long as the weather wasn't too wet or cold), but I wouldn't even think of trying to take that scooter up Nob Hill or Russian Hill, because I'm sure I'd either burn out the motor or start going backwards back down the hill.  Do most e-bikes really have the power to conquer steep hills like that?

Perhaps so, since the e-bike motors tend to be a supplement to human power, while the e-scooter motors are a substitute for human power (and they go so fast that you can't use your feet to help push them along anyway unless you want to crash).
 
2021-02-25 6:12:51 PM  

Gyrfalcon: If you need an "e-bike" just suck it up and get a motorcycle ffs.


I had one. While in my car I was at a red light and got rear ended at 40 m.p.h by a guy who was texting and never even hit his brakes. If I were on my motorcycle I would be dead, 100% chance.

I miss my bike but people are just too dumb to trust anymore. The e-bike is not an equivalent replacement for the joy of the motorcycle, but it is about 20% as fun and I will settle for that.
 
2021-02-25 6:13:16 PM  

Gyrfalcon: If you need an "e-bike" just suck it up and get a motorcycle ffs.


Where I am, I don't need a license, insurance or a garage/parking space to store my 20mph e-bike. I can ride my e-bike all year round because they plow trails here. Nobody is riding a motorcycle in the middle of a MN winter.

Why would everybody need a motorcycle?
 
2021-02-25 6:14:35 PM  
because fuque you is y
 
2021-02-25 6:14:48 PM  

joyride75: Gyrfalcon: If you need an "e-bike" just suck it up and get a motorcycle ffs.

Where I am, I don't need a license, insurance or a garage/parking space to store my 20mph e-bike. I can ride my e-bike all year round because they plow trails here. Nobody is riding a motorcycle in the middle of a MN winter.

Why would everybody need a motorcycle?


I think she was impugning your manhood tbf.
 
2021-02-25 6:15:18 PM  

petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked


How about irresponsible asswipe then
 
2021-02-25 6:15:20 PM  

Cornelis de Gyselaer: dericwater: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Good point. Here in hilly San Francisco, e-bikes are a godsend for those of us who might have to go up Nob Hill or *gak, huff, huff, puff* Russian Hill.

Or Filbert
Only nuts try that one


Filbert, between Hyde and Leavenworth (the steepest through street in the city) is downhill only. You're not supposed to bike or motor up the hill. I went down that hill once by bike, in early evening, in the dark. Scary AF.
 
2021-02-25 6:15:44 PM  
Because cyclists are assholes.
 
2021-02-25 6:15:51 PM  

petec: sdd2000: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Even if not required by law, there are reasons that they are mandated in some places and seriously recommended in other places.

If I'm storming down a mountain, yeah

just putzing around town, um, no

/as a teenager I was riding over 150 miles a week, for 5-6 years
//broke some bikes and got some stitches
///no broken bones


No, but you're a tool for referring to a legitimate form of transportation to a large portion of the human population as a 'child's toy'. And I'm not referring to third world countries, I'm talking about better developed countries than the USA like the Netherlands. Tool.
 
2021-02-25 6:16:22 PM  

Advernaut: Because cyclists are assholes.


People are assholes, some of them are cyclists.
 
2021-02-25 6:16:46 PM  

joyride75: Gyrfalcon: If you need an "e-bike" just suck it up and get a motorcycle ffs.

Where I am, I don't need a license, insurance or a garage/parking space to store my 20mph e-bike. I can ride my e-bike all year round because they plow trails here. Nobody is riding a motorcycle in the middle of a MN winter.

Why would everybody need a motorcycle?


Fark user imageView Full Size


To do Gonzo Journalism?
 
2021-02-25 6:17:16 PM  

dericwater: Cornelis de Gyselaer: dericwater: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Good point. Here in hilly San Francisco, e-bikes are a godsend for those of us who might have to go up Nob Hill or *gak, huff, huff, puff* Russian Hill.

Or Filbert
Only nuts try that one

Filbert, between Hyde and Leavenworth (the steepest through street in the city) is downhill only. You're not supposed to bike or motor up the hill. I went down that hill once by bike, in early evening, in the dark. Scary AF.


I've seen pictures and a vid but never in person. I would love to see it in snow.
 
2021-02-25 6:17:43 PM  

whidbey: joyride75: Gyrfalcon: If you need an "e-bike" just suck it up and get a motorcycle ffs.

Where I am, I don't need a license, insurance or a garage/parking space to store my 20mph e-bike. I can ride my e-bike all year round because they plow trails here. Nobody is riding a motorcycle in the middle of a MN winter.

Why would everybody need a motorcycle?

I think she was impugning your manhood tbf.

I

can do that by looking in the mirror every morning, TYVM! I don't need help.
 
2021-02-25 6:18:16 PM  

JesseL: Would all the stop-liking-what-I-don't-like cyclists feel better if we called e-bikes something like e-mopeds or something?

They're obviously not bicycles. Nobody else cares if they fail to live up to what you like about bicycles.


Unless someone modded them, they're bicycles. The electrical motor doesn't kick in until you actually pedal. They do help some, for sure, especially up steep hills, and it does take a bit getting used to because the kick is sometimes quite a push, which makes them difficult to handle when trying to go slowly in tight areas.
 
2021-02-25 6:20:45 PM  

jst3p: whidbey: Everyone seems to want one of those fat(test) tire e-bikes these days.

It's like they don't seem to get it, and want a bike more like  a car.

Yeah, I don't get the fat tire thing but to each their own. Mine is built on a regular mountain bike frame (the last e-bike Diamondback made as far as I know) but the battery is a dead giveaway. My next one will be completely stealth as far as looks are concerned.


Specialized has an eMountain bike that looks like a typical MTB with a thicker down tube for the battery. I can't recall the name but it was a sweet looking rig.
MTB rider since 1985.
 
2021-02-25 6:21:23 PM  

dericwater: JesseL: Would all the stop-liking-what-I-don't-like cyclists feel better if we called e-bikes something like e-mopeds or something?

They're obviously not bicycles. Nobody else cares if they fail to live up to what you like about bicycles.

Unless someone modded them, they're bicycles. The electrical motor doesn't kick in until you actually pedal. They do help some, for sure, especially up steep hills, and it does take a bit getting used to because the kick is sometimes quite a push, which makes them difficult to handle when trying to go slowly in tight areas.


The only practical reason I would ever get one is to tool around the steep winding mountain rounds to get to some cool National Forest viewpoints and summits. The roads are usually gated, and riding 20 miles up that terrain on a standard bike would not be a fun part of that trip.
 
2021-02-25 6:21:35 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes. Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


That's not true... electric bikes are almost always better than regular bikes for both energy consumption and pollution.  It turns out that people are really inefficient at turning food into motion, and that making food takes more energy and produces more emissions than other energy sources, even ones as dirty as coal.

A human-powered bike will beat a car, but mostly because the bike is very light and low-speed compared to the car, not because humans are an efficient way to power it.  Replace the human with even a coal-powered e-bike, and the total emissions drop substantially.

There's still an argument to be made that humans need some exercise, and that if you get your exercise transporting yourself somewhere, this is better than exercising separately and THEN using some other form of transport... but if it's just "which is worse for the environment," the e-bike will have lower emissions and energy consumption than the human-powered bike.

A couple of citations, although I'm sure you can find more.
 
2021-02-25 6:25:09 PM  

raygundan: Cyberluddite: Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes. Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

That's not true... electric bikes are almost always better than regular bikes for both energy consumption and pollution.  It turns out that people are really inefficient at turning food into motion, and that making food takes more energy and produces more emissions than other energy sources, even ones as dirty as coal.

A human-powered bike will beat a car, but mostly because the bike is very light and low-speed compared to the car, not because humans are an efficient way to power it.  Replace the human with even a coal-powered e-bike, and the total emissions drop substantially.

There's still an argument to be made that humans need some exercise, and that if you get your exercise transporting yourself somewhere, this is better than exercising separately and THEN using some other form of transport... but if it's just "which is worse for the environment," the e-bike will have lower emissions and energy consumption than the human-powered bike.

A couple of citations, although I'm sure you can find more.


Good point.
 
2021-02-25 6:31:26 PM  

whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.


I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.
 
2021-02-25 6:32:32 PM  

kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.


ok boomer
 
2021-02-25 6:32:52 PM  

kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.


See seat belts
 
2021-02-25 6:33:47 PM  
how about we stop subsidizing everything?

starting with oil subsidies
 
2021-02-25 6:34:47 PM  

Tater1337: how about we stop subsidizing everything?

starting with oil subsidies


lolbertarian detected
 
2021-02-25 6:35:34 PM  

whidbey: kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.

ok boomer


born in 74. Wrong again
 
Bf+
2021-02-25 6:35:42 PM  

Advernaut: Because cyclists are assholes.


Bigotry on My Fark?  It's more likely than you think.
 
2021-02-25 6:37:15 PM  
I've had an e-bike for about a year and a half. I live in a place with moderately cold winters and wretched humid summers. I wear a suit to the office (or I did, when those were places that people went to), and I can ride my bike for 30 minutes in 90°+ weather without showing up sweaty (and it helped us stay a 1-car household in the process).

The e-bike isn't a replacement for a traditional bike. It's a replacement for a car. It doesn't work for every location and everyone's situation, but replacing 1000 cars on the road in your average medium-sized US city would make a noticable difference, and more people on bikes (any kind of bike) incentivates civic accomodations through more bike infrastructure, which makes bikes a more attractive option all around.
 
2021-02-25 6:37:44 PM  

sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.


At least they're wearing Orange unlike the assholes around here who bike at night while dressed in black with no lights on their bike.
 
2021-02-25 6:38:06 PM  

raygundan: That's not true... electric bikes are almost always better than regular bikes for both energy consumption and pollution.  It turns out that people are really inefficient at turning food into motion, and that making food takes more energy and produces more emissions than other energy sources, even ones as dirty as coal.


For carbon specifically, sure.

The production of batteries (and the lightweight structural materials necessary), however, produces a lot of chemical waste that's much less friendly than CO2, and is less ultimately recyclable back into the environment.

You're aware that there's more than one kind of pollution, right?  My heavy breathing while out jogging isn't rendering square miles of land completely non-arable for decades or soaking town water supplies with highly poisonous aluminum or lithium production byproducts.

... at least, not so far as I know.  Better check my family history for black dragons.

// The statistics of recycling the batteries also boil down to basically a 100% guarantee that those batteries won't actually be recycled, too, so there's a post-user impact as well.
 
2021-02-25 6:38:20 PM  

lilplatinum: jst3p: lilplatinum: jst3p: A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling

So it has climate control?

20 miles an hour (even up hill) feels like AC even when it's hot out.

Spoken like someone who never had to live in Houston in August.. (or in february apparently).


No one has to live anywhere.
some chose wisely, others not so much
 
2021-02-25 6:39:02 PM  

lilplatinum: Porous Horace: They're great for alcoholics who have lost their driver's licenses.

Don't try this in Germany, you get your driver's license suspended for drunk driving same as if driving.


but, um.... nevermind
 
2021-02-25 6:39:02 PM  

Mikey1969: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

Yet more people will be willing to use their bike to run to the store and load up with groceries if they have an assist system on their bike. I don't get the hate for E-bikes, but it's pretty farking viscous.


They'd also need a trailer to attach to their bikes unless they do daily shopping.
 
2021-02-25 6:39:40 PM  

RevCarter: The e-bike isn't a replacement for a traditional bike.


It's definitely a replacement for a traditional bike, too-- and one that results in lower total emissions than a pedal-powered bicycle.
 
2021-02-25 6:40:23 PM  

TWX: What license?  You don't need a license to ride a bicycle.


They should.

The people who ride bicycles tend to love tax and regulation for everyone else, so they should pay up too, farkers.
 
2021-02-25 6:40:34 PM  

raygundan: Cyberluddite: Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes. Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

That's not true... electric bikes are almost always better than regular bikes for both energy consumption and pollution.  It turns out that people are really inefficient at turning food into motion, and that making food takes more energy and produces more emissions than other energy sources, even ones as dirty as coal.

A human-powered bike will beat a car, but mostly because the bike is very light and low-speed compared to the car, not because humans are an efficient way to power it.  Replace the human with even a coal-powered e-bike, and the total emissions drop substantially.

There's still an argument to be made that humans need some exercise, and that if you get your exercise transporting yourself somewhere, this is better than exercising separately and THEN using some other form of transport... but if it's just "which is worse for the environment," the e-bike will have lower emissions and energy consumption than the human-powered bike.

A couple of citations, although I'm sure you can find more.



Excuse me, my good man.  I'd like to purchase one of your coal powered bikes.
 
2021-02-25 6:41:41 PM  

Cornelis de Gyselaer: kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.

See seat belts


Again I said overkill not unnecessary. And I dont think people should be MADE to wear a seatbelt by penalty of law

old people fall and hit their heads all the time, should we make them wear a helmet by law everyday ? I mean its safer no ? They break hips, surely we can make them wear protective gear or arrest them
 
2021-02-25 6:45:13 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Like, if you live in an area where keeping the e-bike charged and running would be viable in the first place, which is to say an urban area.


Why would keeping an e-bike running and charged be a problem in the suburbs? or boonies even?
 
2021-02-25 6:46:06 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


In fact once we say it this way, there ought to be a tax.
The human fuel replacement tax.
If the typical way would have been calorie powered, and you use some otehr form of fuel to power whatever that is. The replacement fuel/battery itself has a tax levied for using it instead of your own dam calories.

Tax e bikes, e scooters(not moped scooters, calorie powered ones), e boards, and all that human fuel replacement systems bs.
If you need a mobility assistance device that's one thing, shiat we should pay for that for you, but if you're just, weee look at me not put effort into it, then pay up for that wastefulness already.
 
2021-02-25 6:46:42 PM  

ongbok: I'd love to have one. Man, put one of those nice big old school Huffy box seats on it so you are not killing your ass and balls, nice high handle bars, a nice back support coming up from the seat, that would be perfect.


um, that's called a hover round
 
2021-02-25 6:49:29 PM  

Magnanimous_J: TWX: What license?  You don't need a license to ride a bicycle.

They should.

The people who ride bicycles tend to love tax and regulation for everyone else, so they should pay up too, farkers.


You know most people who ride also own a vehicle right?
 
2021-02-25 6:50:41 PM  

Jim_Callahan: My heavy breathing while out jogging isn't rendering square miles of land completely non-arable for decades or soaking town water supplies with highly poisonous aluminum or lithium production byproducts.


Probably not any aluminum or lithium byproducts in your breath, to be sure.  And you're absolutely right to point out that CO2 is not the only pollutant (although greenhouse gasses are the pollutants with the highest existential threat.)

But you breathing out CO2 is just the last step in a process that DOES require two or three acres of arable land that can't be used for anything else but feeding you, with all the fun of pesticides and fertilizers and runoff and diesel particulate emissions and microplastics from shipping and leaked refrigerant gasses and packaging materials and all the other non-CO2 consequences that your diet entails.

It can be extremely difficult to tally up every externality, but e-bikes are basically trading farming and food distribution pollution for battery production pollution and reduced lifecycle CO2.
 
2021-02-25 6:51:14 PM  

sdd2000: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

Sorry but partners secretary a few years ago buried a 17 year old son from a bike accident, that he most likely would have survived with a helmet


You're correct, he should have had a helmet on.

Me, I'm still here after quite a few nasty spills on a bicycle.

One even involved a steel deck bridge in the rain at about 35 mph, where I almost lost an eye.

Some people never learn.
 
2021-02-25 6:51:41 PM  

kindms: whidbey: kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.

ok boomer

born in 74. Wrong again


I wasn't wrong the first time.   You don't seem to have a clue as to why we have helmet laws for cyclists.
 
2021-02-25 6:55:42 PM  

whidbey: kindms: whidbey: kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.

ok boomer

born in 74. Wrong again

I wasn't wrong the first time.   You don't seem to have a clue as to why we have helmet laws for cyclists.


Lifelong mountain biker.  I never go for a ride without a helmet.  If someone proposes laws requiring helmets, I'll still tell them to go fark themselves(although much more politely most likely)
 
2021-02-25 6:56:49 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


Not necessarily.  There are people who are more willing to do some commutes on bike because having electric assist makes the commute possible, or at least less burdensome.

One girl i know bought a cargo e-bike.  She takes it shopping now.

And honestly, even if they don't commute, more people out exercising will be good for people's health.  I would just suggest that we only subsidize bikes that ASSIST the rider pedaling so that there's actual benefits to exercise.  Otherwise it'll just be overweight people pushing a throttle lever down the bike path.
 
2021-02-25 6:59:31 PM  

Explodo: whidbey: kindms: whidbey: kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.

ok boomer

born in 74. Wrong again

I wasn't wrong the first time.   You don't seem to have a clue as to why we have helmet laws for cyclists.

Lifelong mountain biker.  I never go for a ride without a helmet.  If someone proposes laws requiring helmets, I'll still tell them to go fark themselves(although much more politely most likely)


Pretty sure you're not going to get away with that in a major city.   Especially out west.  Where I live, there are no helmet laws, and it's about 50-50 between responsible cyclists and yokels who don't think they need it.   It doesn't even feel right not having one while riding.
 
2021-02-25 7:01:07 PM  

Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.


I have a friend who is morbidly obese.  She can't ride her bike because she can't get up the hills.  And to be fair, they are challenging hills for even a fit person to climb.  The hills are between her and her work.

An e-bike would allow her to bike in her commute, get exercise and decrease car traffic all at once.  More than that,it would give her freedom to go on bike rides with her family.  Right now, she sends her daughter and husband out if a bike ride is planned and she stays home.  Which means she doesn't exercise and doesn't interact with her family.

I would live to see ebikes become more accessible, even if I'm.persinally not interested.
 
2021-02-25 7:02:23 PM  

Fart_Machine: Magnanimous_J: TWX: What license?  You don't need a license to ride a bicycle.

They should.

The people who ride bicycles tend to love tax and regulation for everyone else, so they should pay up too, farkers.

You know most people who ride also own a vehicle right?


I get that, but I don't understand why its an argument. I still have to tab the boat (if I had one), even though I have a car. Just because I bought the boots, I don't get the flip-flops for free.

Besides cyclists being consistently the rudest people in public, adding bike lanes is expensive, inconveniences drivers, removes parking and puts bikes and pedestrians dangerously close together. And these entitled little coonts get it all for free AND still don't follow the rules.

I absolutely farking hate them. Seattle has all kinds of weird, e-powered little scooters and unicycles and such, and everyone seems to work around each other just fine except for the farking cyclists.
 
2021-02-25 7:04:01 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


i.e.  You can pedal a bike. You can't "Fred Flintstone" a car.
 
2021-02-25 7:04:50 PM  

Magnanimous_J: Fart_Machine: Magnanimous_J: TWX: What license?  You don't need a license to ride a bicycle.

They should.

The people who ride bicycles tend to love tax and regulation for everyone else, so they should pay up too, farkers.

You know most people who ride also own a vehicle right?

I get that, but I don't understand why its an argument. I still have to tab the boat (if I had one), even though I have a car. Just because I bought the boots, I don't get the flip-flops for free.

Besides cyclists being consistently the rudest people in public, adding bike lanes is expensive, inconveniences drivers, removes parking and puts bikes and pedestrians dangerously close together. And these entitled little coonts get it all for free AND still don't follow the rules.

I absolutely farking hate them. Seattle has all kinds of weird, e-powered little scooters and unicycles and such, and everyone seems to work around each other just fine except for the farking cyclists.


So your butthurt about cyclists.  Well ok.
 
2021-02-25 7:05:29 PM  

whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.


Bicycle culture is crazy in the Netherlands, yet no helmets, even on the kids

cdn.vox-cdn.comView Full Size
if I'm a boomer, you're my nannie
 
2021-02-25 7:05:30 PM  

Tater1337: how about we stop subsidizing everything?

starting with oil subsidies


No. Subsidies are essential part of helping to get innovation to get going. It's a proven strategy and has been beneficial to all mankind. Oil, automobile, rail transportation, air transportation, computers, telephony, electrification, public education... they're all used subsidies in one way or another. There are failed ones, like the Jones Act to prevent foreign made vessels from going into US waters. In a sense, it may have worked at one time, but now needs to end for that particular sector. Same with tax deductions for mortgage interest.
 
2021-02-25 7:07:40 PM  

Elliot8654: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

You're DEFINITELY a boomer when you describe bicycles (particularly e-bikes) as a child's toy


You can be nannies neighbor that always ratted us out for playing by the RR tracks.

/squishing pennies
 
2021-02-25 7:10:02 PM  

kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.


Or maybe we are smarter than we used to be.
 
2021-02-25 7:10:38 PM  

kindms: Again I said overkill not unnecessary. And I dont think people should be MADE to wear a seatbelt by penalty of law

old people fall and hit their heads all the time, should we make them wear a helmet by law everyday ? I mean its safer no ? They break hips, surely we can make them wear protective gear or arrest them


What are the comparative numbers? We have over 30K deaths per year due to automobiles (not sure if all are in the automobile of that includes pedestrians killed by automobiles). And when the accident is investigated, it becomes clear that, had the driver or passenger worn a seat belt, the person would have survived. We should make it mandatory to wear seatbelts. Heck, cars ought to be designed so that it cannot function without seatbelts being properly utilized.
 
2021-02-25 7:10:44 PM  
This reminds me of when Oklahoma was offering tax rebates for electric "cars".  What happened here is everyone ended up buying golf carts with head and taillights and getting them for almost nothing after the tax rebate.  I'm sure they were taking advantage of a poorly written law.

I never jumped on it, as my tax liability would not have given me any kind of refund.
 
2021-02-25 7:11:51 PM  

rga184: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

I have a friend who is morbidly obese.  She can't ride her bike because she can't get up the hills.  And to be fair, they are challenging hills for even a fit person to climb.  The hills are between her and her work.

An e-bike would allow her to bike in her commute, get exercise and decrease car traffic all at once.  More than that,it would give her freedom to go on bike rides with her family.  Right now, she sends her daughter and husband out if a bike ride is planned and she stays home.  Which means she doesn't exercise and doesn't interact with her family.

I would live to see ebikes become more accessible, even if I'm.persinally not interested.


They've come a looooong way in the US, even in the last 5 years. They've become way more accessible as far as availability and price. When I realized e-bikes were a thing 8 or so years ago, you either had to build your own, which is a non-starter for many, or pay $$$$ for an under-powered bike with a heavy lead-acid battery. But now you can get a relatively cheap pre-built e-bike with a good battery delivered right to your door for less than $2k. I've "built" great bikes for less than $1k.

Hopefully that can just continue in the next 5 years!
 
2021-02-25 7:15:34 PM  

Cyberluddite: dericwater: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Good point. Here in hilly San Francisco, e-bikes are a godsend for those of us who might have to go up Nob Hill or *gak, huff, huff, puff* Russian Hill.

Does that really work?  (Serious question, I'm really wondering about that.)  I mean, I have an e-scooter, and it works great on the flat parts of town (and in fact in the pre-COVID era when I was actually going into the office to work, I'd ride the thing to work rather than driving 80% of the time as long as the weather wasn't too wet or cold), but I wouldn't even think of trying to take that scooter up Nob Hill or Russian Hill, because I'm sure I'd either burn out the motor or start going backwards back down the hill.  Do most e-bikes really have the power to conquer steep hills like that?

Perhaps so, since the e-bike motors tend to be a supplement to human power, while the e-scooter motors are a substitute for human power (and they go so fast that you can't use your feet to help push them along anyway unless you want to crash).


Yes it really helps. It all depends on the weight of the bicycle, the power offered by the e-motor, and whether the bike has multiple gears or a simpler 3-gear option. For example, BayWheels have e-bikes. But I literally cannot tell the difference between having them on and riding a non e-bike BayWheel bike.

With the battery, on some bikes, I can go up the steepest part of Russian Hill (that I am legally allowed to go up): Jones up to Green from Union. It's still a helluva push, but without the battery, I'd be dead in the water.
 
2021-02-25 7:24:06 PM  

kindms: whidbey: kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.

ok boomer

born in 74. Wrong again


some of the young ones have been trained to take what the powers that be say as gospel, they have no sense of independence and are unable to make decisions on their own as to their well being and likely hood to survive

it's not a good trait
 
2021-02-25 7:26:20 PM  

petec: kindms: whidbey: kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.

ok boomer

born in 74. Wrong again

some of the young ones have been trained to take what the powers that be say as gospel, they have no sense of independence and are unable to make decisions on their own as to their well being and likely hood to survive

it's not a good trait


but the did get a ribbon
 
2021-02-25 7:32:39 PM  

lilplatinum: demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.

I like food delivery drivers threatening to run me down on their silent death bikes on the sidewalks, adds excitement to life.


What, do your regular bikes have internal combustion engines, or something? Bikes have always been silent, except for when they have a horn or bell on them.
 
2021-02-25 7:33:18 PM  
"I did something unsafely and I survived. Therefore safer alternatives are dumb" is not the smart argument people who make it think it is.
 
2021-02-25 7:35:37 PM  

petec: Elliot8654: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

You're DEFINITELY a boomer when you describe bicycles (particularly e-bikes) as a child's toy

You can be nannies neighbor that always ratted us out for playing by the RR tracks.

/squishing pennies


"I had a bike as a kid, therefore bikes are kids toys" is a massive logical fallacy.
 
2021-02-25 7:41:02 PM  

Mikey1969: lilplatinum: demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.

I like food delivery drivers threatening to run me down on their silent death bikes on the sidewalks, adds excitement to life.

What, do your regular bikes have internal combustion engines, or something? Bikes have always been silent, except for when they have a horn or bell on them.


I Was referring to a nyc phenomenon where electric bike drivers like to try to run you down. Normies just run red lights but I've yet to be almost run down by them on sidewalks.
 
2021-02-25 7:41:03 PM  

Elliot8654: petec: Elliot8654: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

You're DEFINITELY a boomer when you describe bicycles (particularly e-bikes) as a child's toy

You can be nannies neighbor that always ratted us out for playing by the RR tracks.

/squishing pennies

"I had a bike as a kid, therefore bikes are kids toys" is a massive logical fallacy.


I was trolling

Still get a few hundred miles a year on my old Specialized Enduro

/not all of it needs a helmet
 
2021-02-25 7:43:49 PM  

petec: Elliot8654: petec: Elliot8654: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

You're DEFINITELY a boomer when you describe bicycles (particularly e-bikes) as a child's toy

You can be nannies neighbor that always ratted us out for playing by the RR tracks.

/squishing pennies

"I had a bike as a kid, therefore bikes are kids toys" is a massive logical fallacy.

I was trolling

Still get a few hundred miles a year on my old Specialized Enduro

/not all of it needs a helmet


My original point was that if someone wanted to sell e-bike subsidies as a good idea, the picture of someone riding without a helmet is short sighted. But go ahead and be a troll.
 
2021-02-25 7:44:33 PM  

petec: lilplatinum: jst3p: lilplatinum: jst3p: A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling

So it has climate control?

20 miles an hour (even up hill) feels like AC even when it's hot out.

Spoken like someone who never had to live in Houston in August.. (or in february apparently).

No one has to live anywhere.
some chose wisely, others not so much


Some people don't choose where they are raised and others may not have the fiscal wherewithal to move, but yes it was a colloquial "had" rather than implying they were forced at gunpoint.
 
2021-02-25 7:45:31 PM  

joyride75: rga184: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

I have a friend who is morbidly obese.  She can't ride her bike because she can't get up the hills.  And to be fair, they are challenging hills for even a fit person to climb.  The hills are between her and her work.

An e-bike would allow her to bike in her commute, get exercise and decrease car traffic all at once.  More than that,it would give her freedom to go on bike rides with her family.  Right now, she sends her daughter and husband out if a bike ride is planned and she stays home.  Which means she doesn't exercise and doesn't interact with her family.

I would live to see ebikes become more accessible, even if I'm.persinally not interested.

They've come a looooong way in the US, even in the last 5 years. They've become way more accessible as far as availability and price. When I realized e-bikes were a thing 8 or so years ago, you either had to build your own, which is a non-starter for many, or pay $$$$ for an under-powered bike with a heavy lead-acid battery. But now you can get a relatively cheap pre-built e-bike with a good battery delivered right to your door for less than $2k. I've "built" great bikes for less than $1k.

Hopefully that can just continue in the next 5 years!


Fark user imageView Full Size
Fark user imageView Full Size

I paid $1500 for mine. It goes up to 20mph with pedal assist or throttle. It also folds, so I can toss it into my trunk or take it on the train on the days I have to go to DC. It's a beast, but with the fat tires I can ride on anything but ice, and it's super fun.
 
2021-02-25 7:47:22 PM  

RevCarter: joyride75: rga184: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

I have a friend who is morbidly obese.  She can't ride her bike because she can't get up the hills.  And to be fair, they are challenging hills for even a fit person to climb.  The hills are between her and her work.

An e-bike would allow her to bike in her commute, get exercise and decrease car traffic all at once.  More than that,it would give her freedom to go on bike rides with her family.  Right now, she sends her daughter and husband out if a bike ride is planned and she stays home.  Which means she doesn't exercise and doesn't interact with her family.

I would live to see ebikes become more accessible, even if I'm.persinally not interested.

They've come a looooong way in the US, even in the last 5 years. They've become way more accessible as far as availability and price. When I realized e-bikes were a thing 8 or so years ago, you either had to build your own, which is a non-starter for many, or pay $$$$ for an under-powered bike with a heavy lead-acid battery. But now you can get a relatively cheap pre-built e-bike with a good battery delivered right to your door for less than $2k. I've "built" great bikes for less than $1k.

Hopefully that can just continue in the next 5 years!

[Fark user image 425x318][Fark user image 425x318]
I paid $1500 for mine. It go ...


How long does a charge last on those?  Does pedaling recharge it?
 
2021-02-25 7:47:53 PM  

sdd2000: petec: Elliot8654: petec: Elliot8654: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

You're DEFINITELY a boomer when you describe bicycles (particularly e-bikes) as a child's toy

You can be nannies neighbor that always ratted us out for playing by the RR tracks.

/squishing pennies

"I had a bike as a kid, therefore bikes are kids toys" is a massive logical fallacy.

I was trolling

Still get a few hundred miles a year on my old Specialized Enduro

/not all of it needs a helmet

My original point was that if someone wanted to sell e-bike subsidies as a good idea, the picture of someone riding without a helmet is short sighted. But go ahead and be a troll.


Why is it bad idea? If they're not required I think more people would be turned off if they had to wear one. If you're worried about your riding ability you can always wear a helmet if you want.
 
2021-02-25 7:49:04 PM  

RevCarter: joyride75: rga184: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

I have a friend who is morbidly obese.  She can't ride her bike because she can't get up the hills.  And to be fair, they are challenging hills for even a fit person to climb.  The hills are between her and her work.

An e-bike would allow her to bike in her commute, get exercise and decrease car traffic all at once.  More than that,it would give her freedom to go on bike rides with her family.  Right now, she sends her daughter and husband out if a bike ride is planned and she stays home.  Which means she doesn't exercise and doesn't interact with her family.

I would live to see ebikes become more accessible, even if I'm.persinally not interested.

They've come a looooong way in the US, even in the last 5 years. They've become way more accessible as far as availability and price. When I realized e-bikes were a thing 8 or so years ago, you either had to build your own, which is a non-starter for many, or pay $$$$ for an under-powered bike with a heavy lead-acid battery. But now you can get a relatively cheap pre-built e-bike with a good battery delivered right to your door for less than $2k. I've "built" great bikes for less than $1k.

Hopefully that can just continue in the next 5 years!

[Fark user image image 425x318][Fark user image image 425x318]
I paid $1500 for mine. It goes up to 20mph with pedal assist or throttle. It also folds, so I can toss it into my trunk or take it on the train on the days I have to go to DC. It's a beast, but with the fat tires I can ride on anything but ice, and it's super fun.


Wait, if you pedal faster than 20 mph it is held back by gearing or something?

Maybe I don't fully understand how pedal assist functions.
 
2021-02-25 7:53:55 PM  

petec: sdd2000: petec: Elliot8654: petec: Elliot8654: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

You're DEFINITELY a boomer when you describe bicycles (particularly e-bikes) as a child's toy

You can be nannies neighbor that always ratted us out for playing by the RR tracks.

/squishing pennies

"I had a bike as a kid, therefore bikes are kids toys" is a massive logical fallacy.

I was trolling

Still get a few hundred miles a year on my old Specialized Enduro

/not all of it needs a helmet

My original point was that if someone wanted to sell e-bike subsidies as a good idea, the picture of someone riding without a helmet is short sighted. But go ahead and be a troll.

Why is it bad idea? If they're not required I think more people would be turned off if they had to wear one. If you're worried about your riding ability you can always wear a helmet if you want.


I am agnostic on the subsidy being a good or bad idea. I am not agnostic on riding a bike, especially on city streets without a helmet. I think that is a bad idea.
 
2021-02-25 7:54:11 PM  

Smackledorfer: RevCarter: joyride75: rga184: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

I have a friend who is morbidly obese.  She can't ride her bike because she can't get up the hills.  And to be fair, they are challenging hills for even a fit person to climb.  The hills are between her and her work.

An e-bike would allow her to bike in her commute, get exercise and decrease car traffic all at once.  More than that,it would give her freedom to go on bike rides with her family.  Right now, she sends her daughter and husband out if a bike ride is planned and she stays home.  Which means she doesn't exercise and doesn't interact with her family.

I would live to see ebikes become more accessible, even if I'm.persinally not interested.

They've come a looooong way in the US, even in the last 5 years. They've become way more accessible as far as availability and price. When I realized e-bikes were a thing 8 or so years ago, you either had to build your own, which is a non-starter for many, or pay $$$$ for an under-powered bike with a heavy lead-acid battery. But now you can get a relatively cheap pre-built e-bike with a good battery delivered right to your door for less than $2k. I've "built" great bikes for less than $1k.

Hopefully that can just continue in the next 5 years!

[Fark user image image 425x318][Fark user image image 425x318]
I paid $1500 for mine. It goes up to 20mph with pedal assist or throttle. It also folds, so I can toss it into my trunk or take it on the train on the days I have to go to DC. It's a beast, but with the fat tires I can ride on anything but ice, and it's super fun.

Wait, if you pedal faster than 20 mph it is held back by gearing or something?

Maybe I don't fully understand how pedal assist functions.


You missed the part about 'its a beast'

you ain't pedaling that thing faster than 20
Not sure how well one might coast downhill

I doubt they have regenerative braking (charges the battery)
 
2021-02-25 7:56:02 PM  

lilplatinum: RevCarter: joyride75: rga184: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

I have a friend who is morbidly obese.  She can't ride her bike because she can't get up the hills.  And to be fair, they are challenging hills for even a fit person to climb.  The hills are between her and her work.

An e-bike would allow her to bike in her commute, get exercise and decrease car traffic all at once.  More than that,it would give her freedom to go on bike rides with her family.  Right now, she sends her daughter and husband out if a bike ride is planned and she stays home.  Which means she doesn't exercise and doesn't interact with her family.

I would live to see ebikes become more accessible, even if I'm.persinally not interested.

They've come a looooong way in the US, even in the last 5 years. They've become way more accessible as far as availability and price. When I realized e-bikes were a thing 8 or so years ago, you either had to build your own, which is a non-starter for many, or pay $$$$ for an under-powered bike with a heavy lead-acid battery. But now you can get a relatively cheap pre-built e-bike with a good battery delivered right to your door for less than $2k. I've "built" great bikes for less than $1k.

Hopefully that can just continue in the next 5 years!

[Fark user image 425x318][Fark user image 425x318]
I paid $1500 for mine. It go ...

How long does a charge last on those?  Does pedaling recharge it?


The ones with direct drive also have regenerative braking, but not the chain drive ones. Range is 40-ish miles depending on how much pedaling you're contributing, how many hills you're climbing, how strategic you are with your gearing, and probably things like weight and how cold it is outside. I generally get 30+, but I also don't want to have to pedal home without the assist, because it's not exactly light (60+ lbs).
 
2021-02-25 7:58:17 PM  

petec: Smackledorfer: RevCarter: joyride75: rga184: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

I have a friend who is morbidly obese.  She can't ride her bike because she can't get up the hills.  And to be fair, they are challenging hills for even a fit person to climb.  The hills are between her and her work.

An e-bike would allow her to bike in her commute, get exercise and decrease car traffic all at once.  More than that,it would give her freedom to go on bike rides with her family.  Right now, she sends her daughter and husband out if a bike ride is planned and she stays home.  Which means she doesn't exercise and doesn't interact with her family.

I would live to see ebikes become more accessible, even if I'm.persinally not interested.

They've come a looooong way in the US, even in the last 5 years. They've become way more accessible as far as availability and price. When I realized e-bikes were a thing 8 or so years ago, you either had to build your own, which is a non-starter for many, or pay $$$$ for an under-powered bike with a heavy lead-acid battery. But now you can get a relatively cheap pre-built e-bike with a good battery delivered right to your door for less than $2k. I've "built" great bikes for less than $1k.

Hopefully that can just continue in the next 5 years!

[Fark user image image 425x318][Fark user image image 425x318]
I paid $1500 for mine. It goes up to 20mph with pedal assist or throttle. It also folds, so I can toss it into my trunk or take it on the train on the days I have to go to DC. It's a beast, but with the fat tires I can ride on anything but ice, and it's super fun.

Wait, if you pedal faster than 20 mph it is held back by gearing or something?

Maybe I don't fully understand how pedal assist functions.

You missed the part about 'its a beast'

you ain't pedaling that thing faster than 20
Not sure how well one might coast downhill

I doubt they have regenerative braking (charges the battery)


Exactly. The motor has a governor so it won't go over 20. On a gentle downhill with some effort you can pedal past that. I've gotten up to 25, but there's really no need for me.
 
2021-02-25 8:00:55 PM  

sdd2000: petec: sdd2000: petec: Elliot8654: petec: Elliot8654: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

You're DEFINITELY a boomer when you describe bicycles (particularly e-bikes) as a child's toy

You can be nannies neighbor that always ratted us out for playing by the RR tracks.

/squishing pennies

"I had a bike as a kid, therefore bikes are kids toys" is a massive logical fallacy.

I was trolling

Still get a few hundred miles a year on my old Specialized Enduro

/not all of it needs a helmet

My original point was that if someone wanted to sell e-bike subsidies as a good idea, the picture of someone riding without a helmet is short sighted. But go ahead and be a troll.

Why is it bad idea? If they're not required I think more people would be turned off if they had to wear one. If you're worried about your riding ability you can always wear a helmet if you want.

I am agnostic on the subsidy being a good or bad idea. I am not agnostic on riding a bike, especially on city streets without a helmet. I think that is a bad idea.


Well, like I said/posted, most of the world uses bicycles a lot more than here in the US, and most of those people do not wear a helmet, and feel their safety has not been compromised enough to be of concern.

I'm not saying you can't wear one, just that most people feel they're not always necessary.
 
2021-02-25 8:02:52 PM  

petec: Elliot8654: petec: Elliot8654: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

You're DEFINITELY a boomer when you describe bicycles (particularly e-bikes) as a child's toy

You can be nannies neighbor that always ratted us out for playing by the RR tracks.

/squishing pennies

"I had a bike as a kid, therefore bikes are kids toys" is a massive logical fallacy.

I was trolling

Still get a few hundred miles a year on my old Specialized Enduro

/not all of it needs a helmet


Huh. Thought there were no trolls on fark....

/Specialized Venge Di2
//Surly Disc Trucker w/front and rear racks and mudguards
///Trek 1.5 converted to single speed.
 
2021-02-25 8:06:43 PM  

petec: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

Bicycle culture is crazy in the Netherlands, yet no helmets, even on the kids

[cdn.vox-cdn.com image 850x850]if I'm a boomer, you're my nannie


Anything but respecting the laws and the activism behind them in our own country.

It's almost as if you're a throwback to another time.
 
2021-02-25 8:12:09 PM  

TWX: demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.

I'm frankly more concerned about the assholes that want to ride on their bikes the same speed as the cars are going but aren't willing to at least do the minimum of riding on the road and on the correct side of the road.

Far too many self-propelled bicycles are driven in the bike lane on the wrong side of the road or on the sidewalk.

Many cities are even painting arrows on the bike lanes but the riders are ignoring them and still doing it.


It's a good thing car drivers never drive like assholes.
 
2021-02-25 8:12:33 PM  

RevCarter: petec: Smackledorfer: RevCarter: joyride75: rga184: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

I have a friend who is morbidly obese.  She can't ride her bike because she can't get up the hills.  And to be fair, they are challenging hills for even a fit person to climb.  The hills are between her and her work.

An e-bike would allow her to bike in her commute, get exercise and decrease car traffic all at once.  More than that,it would give her freedom to go on bike rides with her family.  Right now, she sends her daughter and husband out if a bike ride is planned and she stays home.  Which means she doesn't exercise and doesn't interact with her family.

I would live to see ebikes become more accessible, even if I'm.persinally not interested.

They've come a looooong way in the US, even in the last 5 years. They've become way more accessible as far as availability and price. When I realized e-bikes were a thing 8 or so years ago, you either had to build your own, which is a non-starter for many, or pay $$$$ for an under-powered bike with a heavy lead-acid battery. But now you can get a relatively cheap pre-built e-bike with a good battery delivered right to your door for less than $2k. I've "built" great bikes for less than $1k.

Hopefully that can just continue in the next 5 years!

[Fark user image image 425x318][Fark user image image 425x318]
I paid $1500 for mine. It goes up to 20mph with pedal assist or throttle. It also folds, so I can toss it into my trunk or take it on the train on the days I have to go to DC. It's a beast, but with the fat tires I can ride on anything but ice, and it's super fun.

Wait, if you pedal faster than 20 mph it is held back by gearing or something?

Maybe I don't fully understand how pedal assist functions.

You missed the part about 'its a beast'

you ain't pedaling that thing faster than 20
Not sure how well one might coast downhill

I doubt they have regenerative braking (charges the battery)

Exactly. The motor has a governor so it won't go over 20. On a gentle downhill with some effort you can pedal past that. I've gotten up to 25, but there's really no need for me.


I understand why a motor cannot go over x mph.

I don't understand how a power assist function would cease to assist you once you go x mph.

If you just meant it was a physical cap to your biking ability, okie dokie. And no, I don't mean this as a knock on your ability, lest that be the next miscommunication :)
 
2021-02-25 8:18:07 PM  
If you are under the age of 50 and need an electric bike instead of a regular one I pity you.

Unless you are disabled just say no.
 
2021-02-25 8:18:26 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


If an electric bike makes someone commute by bike instead of a car, even an EV, then that's a big plus.

Personally I like this one.
ELECTRIC Fat Tire Bike! | Lectric XP
Youtube xmW_tODoij4


/Shame it's illegal in the UK.
 
2021-02-25 8:19:49 PM  

whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

Bicycle culture is crazy in the Netherlands, yet no helmets, even on the kids

[cdn.vox-cdn.com image 850x850]if I'm a boomer, you're my nannie

Anything but respecting the laws and the activism behind them in our own country.

It's almost as if you're a throwback to another time.


You just got farkied 'nannie purple'

/her favorite color
 
2021-02-25 8:20:53 PM  

Animatronik: If you are under the age of 50 and need an electric bike instead of a regular one I pity you.

Unless you are disabled just say no.


If you are under 50 and need a bike rather than running, I pity you, dude.

Or maybe people have use-cases outside of your narrow scope for an e-bike.

Step back and let people do what works for them.
 
2021-02-25 8:24:53 PM  

whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

Bicycle culture is crazy in the Netherlands, yet no helmets, even on the kids

[cdn.vox-cdn.com image 850x850]if I'm a boomer, you're my nannie

Anything but respecting the laws and the activism behind them in our own country.

It's almost as if you're a throwback to another time.


Wut? Which laws do you speak of?
No state requires helmets for adults, less than half do for children

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedi​a/state-bicycle-helmet-laws.html
 
2021-02-25 8:30:26 PM  

Elliot8654: petec: Elliot8654: petec: Elliot8654: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

You're DEFINITELY a boomer when you describe bicycles (particularly e-bikes) as a child's toy

You can be nannies neighbor that always ratted us out for playing by the RR tracks.

/squishing pennies

"I had a bike as a kid, therefore bikes are kids toys" is a massive logical fallacy.

I was trolling

Still get a few hundred miles a year on my old Specialized Enduro

/not all of it needs a helmet

Huh. Thought there were no trolls on fark....

/Specialized Venge Di2
//Surly Disc Trucker w/front and rear racks and mudguards
///Trek 1.5 converted to single speed.


alright, I'll spare you the 'nannie purple' farkie
 
2021-02-25 8:34:39 PM  
We subsidize electric cars because they take gas powered cars off the road.  Subsidizing electric bikes will just make people fat.
 
2021-02-25 8:39:14 PM  

Smackledorfer: RevCarter:

I understand why a motor cannot go over x mph.

I don't understand how a power assist function would cease to assist you once you go x mph.

If you just meant it was a physical cap to your biking ability, okie dokie. And no, I don't mean this as a knock on your ability, lest that be the next miscommunication :)


The motor could actually go well over 20 if you took the governor off. But it's linked to and limited by the speedometer. Because of the governor, once you hit 20, motor output decreases the harder you pedal. So if you're going 20mph and contributing 25% it's putting out 75%. If you double your output to contribute 50%, the motor just dials back its output to only provide a 50%. And if you push even harder the engine drops off to an equivalent degree. So you CAN got past 20 mph, but by the time you get there you'll be operating with nothing but momentum and muscle power. And the bike weighs 60+lbs, so that gets old real quick.

It's the price you pay for a class 3 motorized vehicle. https://www.cyclevolta.com/what-are-c​l​asses-e-bikes-where-can-e-bikes-be-rid​den/

But having a no-license no-registration motorbike that's light enough to carry up the stairs or toss in my trunk is, for me, 100% worth it.
 
2021-02-25 8:41:01 PM  

derpes_simplex: We subsidize electric cars because they take gas powered cars off the road.  Subsidizing electric bikes will just make people fat.


Yep. Because getting people to ride an assisted bike is so much more fattening and unhealthy than driving....
 
2021-02-25 8:46:14 PM  

Cornelis de Gyselaer: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

How about irresponsible asswipe then


'nannie purple' for you it is
 
2021-02-25 8:48:33 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


This doesn't compute for modal shifting. This assumes that a person who would bike anyway would switch to an e-bike.  But if they are already biking, the e-bike has a cost premium with minimal benefits.

The benefits it does have are greater cargo capacity, longer range for casual riders which would be more likely to pull people out of personal vehicles or mass transit than replace some ones daily ride.

And I. The other side, people who usually drive might see an e-bike as a good transition to cycling, since they are lower effort rides
 
2021-02-25 8:48:44 PM  

Smackledorfer: RevCarter: petec: Smackledorfer: RevCarter: joyride75: rga184: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

I have a friend who is morbidly obese.  She can't ride her bike because she can't get up the hills.  And to be fair, they are challenging hills for even a fit person to climb.  The hills are between her and her work.

An e-bike would allow her to bike in her commute, get exercise and decrease car traffic all at once.  More than that,it would give her freedom to go on bike rides with her family.  Right now, she sends her daughter and husband out if a bike ride is planned and she stays home.  Which means she doesn't exercise and doesn't interact with her family.

I would live to see ebikes become more accessible, even if I'm.persinally not interested.

They've come a looooong way in the US, even in the last 5 years. They've become way more accessible as far as availability and price. When I realized e-bikes were a thing 8 or so years ago, you either had to build your own, which is a non-starter for many, or pay $$$$ for an under-powered bike with a heavy lead-acid battery. But now you can get a relatively cheap pre-built e-bike with a good battery delivered right to your door for less than $2k. I've "built" great bikes for less than $1k.

Hopefully that can just continue in the next 5 years!

[Fark user image image 425x318][Fark user image image 425x318]
I paid $1500 for mine. It goes up to 20mph with pedal assist or throttle. It also folds, so I can toss it into my trunk or take it on the train on the days I have to go to DC. It's a beast, but with the fat tires I can ride on anything but ice, and it's super fun.

Wait, if you pedal faster than 20 mph it is held back by gearing or something?

Maybe I don't fully understand how pedal assist functions.

You missed the part about 'its a beast'

you ain't pedaling that thing faster than 20
Not sure how well one might coast downhill

I doubt they have regenerative braking (charges the battery)

Exactly. The motor has a governor so it won't go over 20. On a gentle downhill with some effort you can pedal past that. I've gotten up to 25, but there's really no need for me.

I understand why a motor cannot go over x mph.

I don't understand how a power assist function would cease to assist you once you go x mph.

If you just meant it was a physical cap to your biking ability, okie dokie. And no, I don't mean this as a knock on your ability, lest that be the next miscommunication :)


Pedal assist is typically controlled by the computer and can be adjusted by the rider.
The same computer limits the top speed, based on wheel rotation.
US bike speeds are actually higher than the EU. You can hack them to go faster but it is not wise. The brakes on a bike will need to be upgraded to deal with regular 40mph stops.
 
2021-02-25 8:50:48 PM  

lilplatinum: Mikey1969: lilplatinum: demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.

I like food delivery drivers threatening to run me down on their silent death bikes on the sidewalks, adds excitement to life.

What, do your regular bikes have internal combustion engines, or something? Bikes have always been silent, except for when they have a horn or bell on them.

I Was referring to a nyc phenomenon where electric bike drivers like to try to run you down. Normies just run red lights but I've yet to be almost run down by them on sidewalks.


One more reason to stay away from NYC, sounds like. Good luck on the streets.
 
2021-02-25 8:52:21 PM  

Smackledorfer: RevCarter: joyride75: rga184: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

I have a friend who is morbidly obese.  She can't ride her bike because she can't get up the hills.  And to be fair, they are challenging hills for even a fit person to climb.  The hills are between her and her work.

An e-bike would allow her to bike in her commute, get exercise and decrease car traffic all at once.  More than that,it would give her freedom to go on bike rides with her family.  Right now, she sends her daughter and husband out if a bike ride is planned and she stays home.  Which means she doesn't exercise and doesn't interact with her family.

I would live to see ebikes become more accessible, even if I'm.persinally not interested.

They've come a looooong way in the US, even in the last 5 years. They've become way more accessible as far as availability and price. When I realized e-bikes were a thing 8 or so years ago, you either had to build your own, which is a non-starter for many, or pay $$$$ for an under-powered bike with a heavy lead-acid battery. But now you can get a relatively cheap pre-built e-bike with a good battery delivered right to your door for less than $2k. I've "built" great bikes for less than $1k.

Hopefully that can just continue in the next 5 years!

[Fark user image image 425x318][Fark user image image 425x318]
I paid $1500 for mine. It goes up to 20mph with pedal assist or throttle. It also folds, so I can toss it into my trunk or take it on the train on the days I have to go to DC. It's a beast, but with the fat tires I can ride on anything but ice, and it's super fun.

Wait, if you pedal faster than 20 mph it is held back by gearing or something?

Maybe I don't fully understand how pedal assist functions.


They assist up to 20 mph and then don't assist after that.
 
2021-02-25 8:52:27 PM  

jst3p: As an e-bike owner these are my observations:

Mine is "pedal assist" which means I have to put some effort in before the motor engages. So I still get a bit of a workout (I still build up a sweat and burn calories).

I live in an area with a LOT of hills, so without it the amount of time I would spend out on the bike is probably zero minutes, with it I get out for a few hours a week in the summer.

The biking community I have run into have been far more supportive than the representation here at fark, most "real" bikers have been pretty supportive and accepting. I expected a lot more bile spewing.

A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling (mainly hills).

I can go a lot faster at a sustained pace on my e-bike than I could on a real bike so... it's more fun!"

My e-bike has a larger carbon footprint than a real bike, but still less than my car by a long shot.

Haters can hate all they want.


I've done rideshare ebikes.  They have a speed limit. Still think they're pretty cool, but those ones are definitely not fast downhill or on long stretches
 
2021-02-25 8:53:40 PM  

proteus_b: Mikey1969: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

Yet more people will be willing to use their bike to run to the store and load up with groceries if they have an assist system on their bike. I don't get the hate for E-bikes, but it's pretty farking viscous.

Why not just use a car though, at that point?


Because a car is more wasteful in just about everyway.
 
2021-02-25 8:53:43 PM  

Uncontrolled_Jibe: WTF is wrong with you people?
The bus will take you were the bicycle does
Now THIS is actually something that will bring you somewhere.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/​motorcycles/livewire.html

Leaves the Zero behind
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motor​cycle-reviews/2020-harley-davidson-liv​ewire-vs-zero-motorcycles-srf-premium/

Subsidizing this can get people out of cars in cities.  Bicycles are an alternative to shoes.


You sound fat
 
2021-02-25 8:57:03 PM  

petec: Uncontrolled_Jibe: WTF is wrong with you people?
The bus will take you were the bicycle does
Now THIS is actually something that will bring you somewhere.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/​motorcycles/livewire.html

Leaves the Zero behind
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motor​cycle-reviews/2020-harley-davidson-liv​ewire-vs-zero-motorcycles-srf-premium/

Subsidizing this can get people out of cars in cities.  Bicycles are an alternative to shoes.

You sound fat


And you sound like a troll, even though there are no trolls on fark.
 
2021-02-25 8:57:49 PM  

petec: Cornelis de Gyselaer: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

How about irresponsible asswipe then

'nannie purple' for you it is


Ah good my favorite color
I'm far left so that probably fits too
 
2021-02-25 9:01:23 PM  

sdd2000: petec: Uncontrolled_Jibe: WTF is wrong with you people?
The bus will take you were the bicycle does
Now THIS is actually something that will bring you somewhere.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/​motorcycles/livewire.html

Leaves the Zero behind
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motor​cycle-reviews/2020-harley-davidson-liv​ewire-vs-zero-motorcycles-srf-premium/

Subsidizing this can get people out of cars in cities.  Bicycles are an alternative to shoes.

You sound fat

And you sound like a troll, even though there are no trolls on fark.


I confessed upthread
 
2021-02-25 9:01:51 PM  
Six years, fossil fuel free.  Love my fixie, but the HyperScrambler 2 is my daily driver.  I will never go back to an ICE.  To the haters...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-02-25 9:02:52 PM  

mescalito: Six years, fossil fuel free.  Love my fixie, but the HyperScrambler 2 is my daily driver.  I will never go back to an ICE.  To the haters...

[Fark user image image 850x850]


nice hair
 
2021-02-25 9:05:52 PM  

petec: just putzing around town, um, no


I pole-vaulted over two car doors in the same month years ago. Landed hard enough to shatter the padding in my helmet each time.Those helmets saved me from serious concussions. I like my skull and brain intact. I wear a helmet on a bike. Always.
 
2021-02-25 9:10:57 PM  

Ed Grubermann: petec: just putzing around town, um, no

I pole-vaulted over two car doors in the same month years ago. Landed hard enough to shatter the padding in my helmet each time.Those helmets saved me from serious concussions. I like my skull and brain intact. I wear a helmet on a bike. Always.


I just drive a car with 18" of steel around me, modern crumple zones, seat belts, and more than a dozen air bags. Saves me from cartwheeling over car doors like you guys apparently do.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
2021-02-25 9:13:58 PM  

NateAsbestos: Because the other type of bike isn't environmentally disastrous.


Yes but I would buy an electric bike and use if instead of a car quite often. I can't do that with a regular bike because I live in a very hilly city and have a knee problem.
 
2021-02-25 9:14:06 PM  

Ed Grubermann: petec: just putzing around town, um, no

I pole-vaulted over two car doors in the same month years ago. Landed hard enough to shatter the padding in my helmet each time.Those helmets saved me from serious concussions. I like my skull and brain intact. I wear a helmet on a bike. Always.


Good for you. I never hit a car door. You might look into improving you reaction time, traveling at a speed safe for the conditions, or getting better brakes.
 
2021-02-25 9:18:20 PM  

Mikey1969: They assist up to 20 mph and then don't assist after that.


There are different classes, depending on different state laws. Class 3 will assist up to 28 mph, and have throttle only mode as well.
 
2021-02-25 9:22:16 PM  

ongbok: I'd love to have one. Man, put one of those nice big old school Huffy box seats on it so you are not killing your ass and balls, nice high handle bars, a nice back support coming up from the seat, that would be perfect.


Hoverounds are already subsidized by Medicare.
 
2021-02-25 9:23:14 PM  

RevCarter: Smackledorfer: RevCarter:

I understand why a motor cannot go over x mph.

I don't understand how a power assist function would cease to assist you once you go x mph.

If you just meant it was a physical cap to your biking ability, okie dokie. And no, I don't mean this as a knock on your ability, lest that be the next miscommunication :)

The motor could actually go well over 20 if you took the governor off. But it's linked to and limited by the speedometer. Because of the governor, once you hit 20, motor output decreases the harder you pedal. So if you're going 20mph and contributing 25% it's putting out 75%. If you double your output to contribute 50%, the motor just dials back its output to only provide a 50%. And if you push even harder the engine drops off to an equivalent degree. So you CAN got past 20 mph, but by the time you get there you'll be operating with nothing but momentum and muscle power. And the bike weighs 60+lbs, so that gets old real quick.

It's the price you pay for a class 3 motorized vehicle. https://www.cyclevolta.com/what-are-cl​asses-e-bikes-where-can-e-bikes-be-rid​den/

But having a no-license no-registration motorbike that's light enough to carry up the stairs or toss in my trunk is, for me, 100% worth it.


Ok, I see now.

Thanks and cool bike.
 
2021-02-25 9:24:06 PM  

Smackledorfer: Uncontrolled_Jibe: WTF is wrong with you people?
The bus will take you were the bicycle does

*Snipped because I'm sure subsidizing those things is good too*

Bicycles are an alternative to shoes.

The parts of your post I didn't snip are incredibly stupid.

Not everyone in the country lives near a bus stop. I'm 7 miles away from the closest bus stop.

Walking to the bus stop alone would take two hours.


Sounds like you need a motorbike.  HD has a great new electric model.  If you live in the country and ride a bicycle, your neighbors must snicker.
 
2021-02-25 9:24:20 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Mikey1969: They assist up to 20 mph and then don't assist after that.

There are different classes, depending on different state laws. Class 3 will assist up to 28 mph, and have throttle only mode as well.


Just to clarify, Class 3 will assist up to 28mph but throttle only is restricted to 20mph.
 
2021-02-25 9:27:37 PM  

Uncontrolled_Jibe: Smackledorfer: Uncontrolled_Jibe: WTF is wrong with you people?
The bus will take you were the bicycle does

*Snipped because I'm sure subsidizing those things is good too*

Bicycles are an alternative to shoes.

The parts of your post I didn't snip are incredibly stupid.

Not everyone in the country lives near a bus stop. I'm 7 miles away from the closest bus stop.

Walking to the bus stop alone would take two hours.

Sounds like you need a motorbike.  HD has a great new electric model.  If you live in the country and ride a bicycle, your neighbors must snicker.


You are very ignorant and seem intent on displaying it.
 
2021-02-25 9:29:09 PM  

Uncontrolled_Jibe: Smackledorfer: Uncontrolled_Jibe: WTF is wrong with you people?
The bus will take you were the bicycle does

*Snipped because I'm sure subsidizing those things is good too*

Bicycles are an alternative to shoes.

The parts of your post I didn't snip are incredibly stupid.

Not everyone in the country lives near a bus stop. I'm 7 miles away from the closest bus stop.

Walking to the bus stop alone would take two hours.

Sounds like you need a motorbike.  HD has a great new electric model.  If you live in the country and ride a bicycle, your neighbors must snicker.


Which country are you from?
 
2021-02-25 9:32:59 PM  

Animatronik: If you are under the age of 50 and need an electric bike instead of a regular one I pity you.

Unless you are disabled just say no.


Well thanks for the pity then I guess? I was a professional dancer and now at 36 have bad knees. Most of the people I know who were dancers or real athletes have problems withe their joints long before 50.
 
2021-02-25 9:34:32 PM  

petec: Uncontrolled_Jibe: Smackledorfer: Uncontrolled_Jibe: WTF is wrong with you people?
The bus will take you were the bicycle does

*Snipped because I'm sure subsidizing those things is good too*

Bicycles are an alternative to shoes.

The parts of your post I didn't snip are incredibly stupid.

Not everyone in the country lives near a bus stop. I'm 7 miles away from the closest bus stop.

Walking to the bus stop alone would take two hours.

Sounds like you need a motorbike.  HD has a great new electric model.  If you live in the country and ride a bicycle, your neighbors must snicker.

Which country are you from?


I only ask because up here in NY, we're gonna snikker at you if you show up on a HD that has a battery instead of a v-twin, and how in the hell do you put loud pipes on a farking e-cycle?

/get out
//-->
 
2021-02-25 9:40:44 PM  

ace in your face: Animatronik: If you are under the age of 50 and need an electric bike instead of a regular one I pity you.

Unless you are disabled just say no.

Well thanks for the pity then I guess? I was a professional dancer and now at 36 have bad knees. Most of the people I know who were dancers or real athletes have problems withe their joints long before 50.


don't leave out us construction workers
/but if you didn't know it was inevitable
//shame on you
///always make sure there are old people in your work/profession
/V or have another option
 
2021-02-25 10:07:41 PM  

joyride75: Where I am, I don't need a license, insurance or a garage/parking space to store my 20mph e-bike. I can ride my e-bike all year round because they plow trails here. Nobody is riding a motorcycle in the middle of a MN winter.


Minneapolis/ St. Paul actually has one of the highest rates of winter bike commuting of any major metro area in the nation.
 
2021-02-25 10:13:11 PM  

whidbey: joyride75: Gyrfalcon: If you need an "e-bike" just suck it up and get a motorcycle ffs.

Where I am, I don't need a license, insurance or a garage/parking space to store my 20mph e-bike. I can ride my e-bike all year round because they plow trails here. Nobody is riding a motorcycle in the middle of a MN winter.

Why would everybody need a motorcycle?

I think she was impugning your manhood tbf.


You blew my cover!
 
2021-02-25 10:16:46 PM  

kindms: I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently.


That's because we only got our first sets of good data on rates & types of head injuries from cycling or snow sports 2-3 decades ago. ER docs had long railed about the need for helmet usage in those sports well before we had the data because they would keep seeing the same tragic injuries.

I'd never care to call out a stranger or anything about it, but me and mine wear helmets on bikes & snowboards. Full stop. There's strong data backing up their use. And anecdotally I know one bike helmet's already saved me from a solid head injury.
 
2021-02-25 10:37:25 PM  

GregInIndy: I'd never care to call out a stranger or anything about it, but me and mine wear helmets on bikes & snowboards. Full stop. There's strong data backing up their use. And anecdotally I know one bike helmet's already saved me from a solid head injury.


Right there with you. I've cracked two helmets in the last two or three years. I'm tall, and the ground is a long way down. At least one of those incidents would probably have knocked me out cold; even with the helmet's protection, I had a headache off and on for the next day or so.
 
2021-02-25 10:55:13 PM  

derpes_simplex: We subsidize electric cars because they take gas powered cars off the road.  Subsidizing electric bikes will just make people fat.


username checks out
 
2021-02-25 11:38:00 PM  

RevCarter: joyride75: rga184: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: 

[Fark user image 425x318][Fark user image 425x318]
I paid $1500 for mine. It go ...


Nice !  Rad Mini FTW.  What happened to your fenders?  I ride mine on a powerline trail, and I need those fenders to keep the 4" stripe of mud off me.  I'm going to get a 32Gal sterilite tub to make it easier to haul it on/off my boat.

electricbikereview.comView Full Size


Really don't get the hate for e-bikes.  I drive an EV, and everyone seems to love that (except the coal-rollers).  Here in WA our power is green, so what's the problem, farkers?  Boomers getting exercise?  Haters suck more than boomers - just saying.
 
2021-02-25 11:38:08 PM  
I ride around a 100 miles week on a standard bike and I think e-bikes are great. I've never bought one because price and the roads around me are dangerous during rush hour, but if we were to get a bike lane or a greenway like the cities been talking about, I'd do it in a heartbeat to get groceries and ride downtown.
 
2021-02-26 12:40:21 AM  

Mikey1969: lilplatinum: Mikey1969: lilplatinum: demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.

I like food delivery drivers threatening to run me down on their silent death bikes on the sidewalks, adds excitement to life.

What, do your regular bikes have internal combustion engines, or something? Bikes have always been silent, except for when they have a horn or bell on them.

I Was referring to a nyc phenomenon where electric bike drivers like to try to run you down. Normies just run red lights but I've yet to be almost run down by them on sidewalks.

One more reason to stay away from NYC, sounds like. Good luck on the streets.


Small price to pay to not live in some useless flyover hellhole.
 
2021-02-26 4:40:12 AM  

Mikey1969: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

Yet more people will be willing to use their bike to run to the store and load up with groceries if they have an assist system on their bike. I don't get the hate for E-bikes, but it's pretty farking viscous.


It is quite the sticky situation.
 
2021-02-26 8:27:55 AM  

pornopose: dr_blasto: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Which is why we should subsidize actual bicycles!

China did that and they have a huuuuge bicycle graveyard now.


sorta like our huge car junkyards?
 
2021-02-26 8:34:46 AM  

jst3p: As an e-bike owner these are my observations:

Mine is "pedal assist" which means I have to put some effort in before the motor engages. So I still get a bit of a workout (I still build up a sweat and burn calories).

I live in an area with a LOT of hills, so without it the amount of time I would spend out on the bike is probably zero minutes, with it I get out for a few hours a week in the summer.

The biking community I have run into have been far more supportive than the representation here at fark, most "real" bikers have been pretty supportive and accepting. I expected a lot more bile spewing.

A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling (mainly hills).

I can go a lot faster at a sustained pace on my e-bike than I could on a real bike so... it's more fun!"

My e-bike has a larger carbon footprint than a real bike, but still less than my car by a long shot.

Haters can hate all they want.


What kind of cyclist hates hills?  Hills are the best part of cycling.  People travel hours to go ride bigger hills than they have at home.
 
2021-02-26 8:35:14 AM  

jst3p: As an e-bike owner these are my observations:

Mine is "pedal assist" which means I have to put some effort in before the motor engages. So I still get a bit of a workout (I still build up a sweat and burn calories).

I live in an area with a LOT of hills, so without it the amount of time I would spend out on the bike is probably zero minutes, with it I get out for a few hours a week in the summer.

The biking community I have run into have been far more supportive than the representation here at fark, most "real" bikers have been pretty supportive and accepting. I expected a lot more bile spewing.

A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling (mainly hills).

I can go a lot faster at a sustained pace on my e-bike than I could on a real bike so... it's more fun!"

My e-bike has a larger carbon footprint than a real bike, but still less than my car by a long shot.

Haters can hate all they want.


For exercise anyway.  For commuting hills probably do suck.
 
2021-02-26 8:37:44 AM  

Wanderlusting: Because it snows in this country? And in the other half it gets so hot to make any vehicle without air conditioning a heat stroke on wheels? 

Texas farked around and found out - the hard way. And Phoenix farked around and found out - the hard way about density altitude and how it effects airlines in July.

Bikes are - at the very least - a seasonal item for the majority of this country and it's populace. 

For those in coastal California, have at it, but nobody it riding bikes in Atlanta in August when it's 85*F and 95% humidity.


I can't speak for the hot weather, but what determines whether people bike in the winter isn't snow, it's bike infrastructure.  In countries like Finland, where people can still get around safely on a bike in the middle of winter, the Fins still bike.
 
2021-02-26 8:38:56 AM  

proteus_b: Mikey1969: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

Yet more people will be willing to use their bike to run to the store and load up with groceries if they have an assist system on their bike. I don't get the hate for E-bikes, but it's pretty farking viscous.

Why not just use a car though, at that point?


Because a car doesn't get you exercise.  A car has a bigger carbon footprint.
 
2021-02-26 8:43:15 AM  

whidbey: Everyone seems to want one of those fat(test) tire e-bikes these days.

It's like they don't seem to get it, and want a bike more like  a car.


Those fat tire ebikes have a throttle, not necessarily pedal assist.  They're essentially a scooter.  They like them because they can still be fatasses, like the tires on their bike.
 
2021-02-26 8:53:15 AM  

petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked


You're a boomer for calling it a child's toy.
 
2021-02-26 8:55:50 AM  

JesseL: Would all the stop-liking-what-I-don't-like cyclists feel better if we called e-bikes something like e-mopeds or something?

They're obviously not bicycles. Nobody else cares if they fail to live up to what you like about bicycles.


Actually, most cyclists are all for ebikes.  As long as people get some exercise or get a car off the road.  The more people out on bikes using the bike lanes, the safer the rest of us are.
 
2021-02-26 9:04:15 AM  

raygundan: Cyberluddite: Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes. Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

That's not true... electric bikes are almost always better than regular bikes for both energy consumption and pollution.  It turns out that people are really inefficient at turning food into motion, and that making food takes more energy and produces more emissions than other energy sources, even ones as dirty as coal.

A human-powered bike will beat a car, but mostly because the bike is very light and low-speed compared to the car, not because humans are an efficient way to power it.  Replace the human with even a coal-powered e-bike, and the total emissions drop substantially.

There's still an argument to be made that humans need some exercise, and that if you get your exercise transporting yourself somewhere, this is better than exercising separately and THEN using some other form of transport... but if it's just "which is worse for the environment," the e-bike will have lower emissions and energy consumption than the human-powered bike.

A couple of citations, although I'm sure you can find more.


I think that second to last paragraphs is an interesting part of the equation.  People who bike for a commute don't usually go get some other form of exercise after.  And when you consider a lot of people's exercise consists of using a treadmill or a elliptical or some other form of electricity consuming machine, it's double the carbon footprint.

A lot of people who e-bike would not have otherwise biked without the electric assist.  They'd just drive and then go to the gym as well.
 
2021-02-26 9:07:05 AM  

kindms: whidbey: petec: whidbey: petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.

Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.

I'm a boomer if I don't wear a helmet while playing on a child's toy?

Getfarked

A $3000+ e-bike is not a "child's toy."   Neither is the standard bike I bought for nearly a thousand 15 years ago.

And there doesn't have to be a law.   Not wearing a helmet while on a bicycle is irresponsible behavior.

I road a bicycle for years without a helmet. as did every child who grew up riding bicycles in the 70s -90s. You didnt start seeing people say everyone had to wear helmets to bike and ski until kind of recently. Other than old people protecting their noggin it seems like overkill.


Survivor bias.  "I didn't wear a helmet and i was fine" is something you can say because you didn't die of a head injury.

Lots of cycling countries don't use helmets to cycle, and they have their arguments against it.  To be honest i feel naked without it, but can see if just riding slowly and not in traffic it's not a big deal to not wear one.
 
2021-02-26 11:25:18 AM  
I have a friend in his late 60s who is into his new e-MTB with evangelical zeal (insert urinal-CrossFit.jpg here.) I cringe whenever I hear him go on about it.

Why? Because it's riders like him who tend to get into more accidents on their e-bikes (MTBs and street) owing to their ease of effort and greater speed, combined with weaker, less-agile (older) riders. Like my friend.

And in my firsthand experience it's exactly these riders who are showing up on shared bike/pedestrian paths whipping by at 20-28mph on their shiny $5k toys. That's a lot of kinetic energy that'll do serious damage in a collision.

It gets worse. There's high-powered bikes out there that can go over 60mph 'off-road' but are supposed to be limited (*wink*) to 20-28mph mode on-road to qualify as license-free Class 1 or 2 bikes. Yet, mode change is as easy as the flip of a switch. Oddly enough the folks riding these are younger, and seem to stay off shared paths.

That said, any 'bike' that can do 60mph at the flick of a mode switch isn't a bike, it's a motorcycle, and needs to be regulated as such. On this point I've written several lawmakers, one of whom co-authored California's e-bike rules that defined the classes for them, and they're looking into the problem with DMV.

And before you go all 'stop liking what I don't like', there's very good reasons for establishing power and speed classes for bikes, mopeds, and motorcycles that predate e-bikes. As power and speed increase, so do the level of risk and responsibility for the rider. There's well-understood social contracts that comes with each level of performance. These contracts don't change just because there's a battery powering things instead of gasoline.
 
2021-02-26 12:02:19 PM  

RevCarter: lilplatinum: RevCarter: joyride75: rga184: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

I have a friend who is morbidly obese.  She can't ride her bike because she can't get up the hills.  And to be fair, they are challenging hills for even a fit person to climb.  The hills are between her and her work.

An e-bike would allow her to bike in her commute, get exercise and decrease car traffic all at once.  More than that,it would give her freedom to go on bike rides with her family.  Right now, she sends her daughter and husband out if a bike ride is planned and she stays home.  Which means she doesn't exercise and doesn't interact with her family.

I would live to see ebikes become more accessible, even if I'm.persinally not interested.

They've come a looooong way in the US, even in the last 5 years. They've become way more accessible as far as availability and price. When I realized e-bikes were a thing 8 or so years ago, you either had to build your own, which is a non-starter for many, or pay $$$$ for an under-powered bike with a heavy lead-acid battery. But now you can get a relatively cheap pre-built e-bike with a good battery delivered right to your door for less than $2k. I've "built" great bikes for less than $1k.

Hopefully that can just continue in the next 5 years!

[Fark user image 425x318][Fark user image 425x318]
I paid $1500 for mine. It go ...

How long does a charge last on those?  Does pedaling recharge it?

The ones with direct drive also have regenerative braking, but not the chain drive ones. Range is 40-ish miles depending on how much pedaling you're contributing, how many hills you're climbing, how strategic you are with your gearing, and probably things like weight and how cold it is outside. I generally get 30+, but I also don't want to have to pedal home without the assist, because it's not exactly light (60+ lbs).


That's curious. There's no inherent reason for a hub-drive vs. chain-drive motor unit to have regeneration or not. Regen adds some cost to the controller (needs to be a 2-quadrant control) but that's it. What gives?
 
2021-02-26 12:58:46 PM  

what the cat dragged in: That's curious. There's no inherent reason for a hub-drive vs. chain-drive motor unit to have regeneration or not. Regen adds some cost to the controller (needs to be a 2-quadrant control) but that's it. What gives?


Chains freewheel. That's why you can stop peddling as you coast downhill. So there is no drive back to the motor, because the chain isn't moving.
 
2021-02-26 8:40:57 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: what the cat dragged in: That's curious. There's no inherent reason for a hub-drive vs. chain-drive motor unit to have regeneration or not. Regen adds some cost to the controller (needs to be a 2-quadrant control) but that's it. What gives?

Chains freewheel. That's why you can stop peddling as you coast downhill. So there is no drive back to the motor, because the chain isn't moving.


You missed the 'inherent' part. I get that typical center-drive e-bike design uses legacy chain / rear hub freewheel, with the motor assisting the crank. With a derailleur you're pretty much stuck only pulling the chain, so regen isn't possible. The only thing you could do is channel some of the human torque to charging the motor.

That's just... dumb. Think about it. You've spent all that battery climbing hills, and you get none of it back when you're coming down them. Near the end of your ride you find that your battery is spent, and if there's an uphill at the end, you're huffing that 50-70lb bike up the hill.

Now, open the design box a bit. Consider dual-drive, which has a separate motor coupling. That could regen. So could a single-speed with crank-side ratchet, with maybe a couple of different sprockets like some single speeders do.
 
2021-02-26 9:44:40 PM  

what the cat dragged in: Carter Pewterschmidt: what the cat dragged in: That's curious. There's no inherent reason for a hub-drive vs. chain-drive motor unit to have regeneration or not. Regen adds some cost to the controller (needs to be a 2-quadrant control) but that's it. What gives?

Chains freewheel. That's why you can stop peddling as you coast downhill. So there is no drive back to the motor, because the chain isn't moving.

You missed the 'inherent' part. I get that typical center-drive e-bike design uses legacy chain / rear hub freewheel, with the motor assisting the crank. With a derailleur you're pretty much stuck only pulling the chain, so regen isn't possible. The only thing you could do is channel some of the human torque to charging the motor.

That's just... dumb. Think about it. You've spent all that battery climbing hills, and you get none of it back when you're coming down them. Near the end of your ride you find that your battery is spent, and if there's an uphill at the end, you're huffing that 50-70lb bike up the hill.

Now, open the design box a bit. Consider dual-drive, which has a separate motor coupling. That could regen. So could a single-speed with crank-side ratchet, with maybe a couple of different sprockets like some single speeders do.


Chain drive is popular because it's easy to add onto an existing bike design. If you're going to all that trouble to add regenerative braking then it's easier to just go for a hub motor.

So there is a very inherent reason chain drive doesn't have regenerative braking. It would mean you could never stop pedalling and coast. The pedals would be turning all the time which is a pain when cycling.
 
2021-02-27 12:37:45 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: what the cat dragged in: Carter Pewterschmidt: what the cat dragged in: That's curious. There's no inherent reason for a hub-drive vs. chain-drive motor unit to have regeneration or not. Regen adds some cost to the controller (needs to be a 2-quadrant control) but that's it. What gives?

Chains freewheel. That's why you can stop peddling as you coast downhill. So there is no drive back to the motor, because the chain isn't moving.

You missed the 'inherent' part. I get that typical center-drive e-bike design uses legacy chain / rear hub freewheel, with the motor assisting the crank. With a derailleur you're pretty much stuck only pulling the chain, so regen isn't possible. The only thing you could do is channel some of the human torque to charging the motor.

That's just... dumb. Think about it. You've spent all that battery climbing hills, and you get none of it back when you're coming down them. Near the end of your ride you find that your battery is spent, and if there's an uphill at the end, you're huffing that 50-70lb bike up the hill.

Now, open the design box a bit. Consider dual-drive, which has a separate motor coupling. That could regen. So could a single-speed with crank-side ratchet, with maybe a couple of different sprockets like some single speeders do.

Chain drive is popular because it's easy to add onto an existing bike design. If you're going to all that trouble to add regenerative braking then it's easier to just go for a hub motor.

So there is a very inherent reason chain drive doesn't have regenerative braking. It would mean you could never stop pedalling and coast. The pedals would be turning all the time which is a pain when cycling.


No, it's just lazy and unimaginative design. And to think of the money they get for these things, it's insane.
 
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