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(Slate)   We subsidize electric cars - why not electric bikes?   (slate.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Bicycle, Cycling, e-bikes, e-bike, Tax credit, e-bike market, Democratic Reps. Jimmy Panetta of California, new e-bike's purchase price  
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894 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Feb 2021 at 5:16 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-02-25 3:41:04 PM  
Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.
 
TWX [TotalFark]
2021-02-25 3:52:16 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.


I'm frankly more concerned about the assholes that want to ride on their bikes the same speed as the cars are going but aren't willing to at least do the minimum of riding on the road and on the correct side of the road.

Far too many self-propelled bicycles are driven in the bike lane on the wrong side of the road or on the sidewalk.

Many cities are even painting arrows on the bike lanes but the riders are ignoring them and still doing it.
 
2021-02-25 3:53:16 PM  
Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.
 
2021-02-25 3:54:48 PM  
Because the other type of bike isn't environmentally disastrous.
 
2021-02-25 3:58:07 PM  

TWX: demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.

I'm frankly more concerned about the assholes that want to ride on their bikes the same speed as the cars are going but aren't willing to at least do the minimum of riding on the road and on the correct side of the road.

Far too many self-propelled bicycles are driven in the bike lane on the wrong side of the road or on the sidewalk.

Many cities are even painting arrows on the bike lanes but the riders are ignoring them and still doing it.


Needs to be treated like a car moving violation, with fines and points on your license.
 
2021-02-25 4:10:04 PM  
I see the endorphin junkie set has already hiked their leg and peed all over the place. Poor thread never stood a chance.
 
TWX [TotalFark]
2021-02-25 4:14:03 PM  

ShavedOrangutan: TWX: demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.

I'm frankly more concerned about the assholes that want to ride on their bikes the same speed as the cars are going but aren't willing to at least do the minimum of riding on the road and on the correct side of the road.

Far too many self-propelled bicycles are driven in the bike lane on the wrong side of the road or on the sidewalk.

Many cities are even painting arrows on the bike lanes but the riders are ignoring them and still doing it.

Needs to be treated like a car moving violation, with fines and points on your license.


What license?  You don't need a license to ride a bicycle.

It needs to be treated like a car moving violation, but on a repeat occurrence within a certain period of time the bicycle needs to be impounded.
 
2021-02-25 4:14:29 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


The idea isn't that electric bikes replace regular bikes, it's that they replace cars for short trips.  Just about anywhere I typically go is within 10 miles of my home. I'm in a city, so using an ebike in the bike lanes isn't that much slower than driving.  It may even be faster since parking it should be easier.
 
2021-02-25 4:37:01 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


Which is why we should subsidize actual bicycles!
 
2021-02-25 5:03:42 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).
 
2021-02-25 5:08:34 PM  
The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.
 
2021-02-25 5:18:42 PM  
someday we wheel get a brake because these ideas are always cyclical.
 
2021-02-25 5:19:15 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).


True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.
 
2021-02-25 5:19:26 PM  
Our rivers can't take anymore of those electric bikes.
 
2021-02-25 5:19:51 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.


You need wider bike paths.
 
2021-02-25 5:21:06 PM  

TWX: demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.

I'm frankly more concerned about the assholes that want to ride on their bikes the same speed as the cars are going but aren't willing to at least do the minimum of riding on the road and on the correct side of the road.

Far too many self-propelled bicycles are driven in the bike lane on the wrong side of the road or on the sidewalk.

Many cities are even painting arrows on the bike lanes but the riders are ignoring them and still doing it.


I have more of an issue with packs of riders who insist on riding 3-4 abreast, overflowing the bike lane, and slowing traffic. It's really fun when trying to drive up the canyons in the summer.

But yeah, I almost ran over some lady who was riding a normal bike and came flying down the sidewalk, on the wrong side of the road, coming from a blind corner due to a shop on the corner. Then I got the stinkeye from both her and her husband, even though I was the one following the rules of the road.
 
2021-02-25 5:22:23 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.


We all know electric unicycles are the conveyance of the future.

They're hitting 35mph.
 
2021-02-25 5:22:34 PM  

Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.


I'd ride an ebike to work.

I won't bike to work because being sweaty isn't acceptable.
 
2021-02-25 5:22:37 PM  
Ask the Stonecutters.
 
2021-02-25 5:22:59 PM  

Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.


Yet more people will be willing to use their bike to run to the store and load up with groceries if they have an assist system on their bike. I don't get the hate for E-bikes, but it's pretty farking viscous.
 
2021-02-25 5:23:50 PM  
Bicycles are being stolen left and right at the current time.  It's not safe to leave your bike chained up anywhere anymore.  We don't need a government subsidized thief enablement program.
 
2021-02-25 5:25:46 PM  

Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.


For most of the world un-powered equipment is not a suitable replacement for powered, and you're smart enough to know that.
 
2021-02-25 5:26:09 PM  
The subsidies would apply to $10,000 long-travel mountain e-bikes too.  That's far from their intended goal, but they don't yet specify that the bikes need to be "city" bikes.

As a mountain biker, I feel that I will someday need an e-bike when I'm too old to be able to get up hills in any sort of fun way anymore, but by then other joints may not work enough to ride anyway.  I do not begrudge those who use them, though there are great many bikers who do.

I don't think this is a good bill.  Subsidizing weekend fun toys is not good look.
 
2021-02-25 5:26:22 PM  
Those bikes are already at the correct price point for society to have an advantage so there is no need to subsidize them.
 
2021-02-25 5:28:30 PM  
I bought an electric bike a few years ago, because my commute is just long enough that I couldn't do it comfortably on a regular bike, but I could do it on an electric bike.

I also found that it sometimes comes in handy when riding on roads with lots of cars, because if I need to, I can crank the electric assist to max for a few seconds so that I can get out of the way of the cars as quickly as possible.
 
2021-02-25 5:29:03 PM  
Because the electric bicycle makers don't have enough money to buy their own congresspeople and senators. Next question.
 
2021-02-25 5:29:42 PM  
First world problems..
 
2021-02-25 5:29:46 PM  
As an e-bike owner these are my observations:

Mine is "pedal assist" which means I have to put some effort in before the motor engages. So I still get a bit of a workout (I still build up a sweat and burn calories).

I live in an area with a LOT of hills, so without it the amount of time I would spend out on the bike is probably zero minutes, with it I get out for a few hours a week in the summer.

The biking community I have run into have been far more supportive than the representation here at fark, most "real" bikers have been pretty supportive and accepting. I expected a lot more bile spewing.

A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling (mainly hills).

I can go a lot faster at a sustained pace on my e-bike than I could on a real bike so... it's more fun!"

My e-bike has a larger carbon footprint than a real bike, but still less than my car by a long shot.

Haters can hate all they want.
 
2021-02-25 5:29:56 PM  

Explodo: The subsidies would apply to $10,000 long-travel mountain e-bikes too.  That's far from their intended goal, but they don't yet specify that the bikes need to be "city" bikes.

As a mountain biker, I feel that I will someday need an e-bike when I'm too old to be able to get up hills in any sort of fun way anymore, but by then other joints may not work enough to ride anyway.  I do not begrudge those who use them, though there are great many bikers who do.

I don't think this is a good bill.  Subsidizing weekend fun toys is not good look.


I have a bike coming my way, and it's a mountain e-bike. I have a lot of weight and muscle mass to gain back now that the chemo is almost over, and I don't want to over-extend myself and get stuck somewhere. Won't be riding trails for awhile, but the idea will still work in town. If I go on a ride and neglect to plan for the trip back, I can still get home. And then yeah, later on it will help with the up parts of the trails so that I can enjoy the downs even more. :-)
 
2021-02-25 5:30:12 PM  
Just yesterday I watch a guy in a full face helmet with a full suspension mountain bike do a faceplant as he attempted to hop a small curb.  After picking himself up he zoomed off at maximum speed on the dirt trail.   He did not engender confidence.
 
2021-02-25 5:30:26 PM  
Because it snows in this country? And in the other half it gets so hot to make any vehicle without air conditioning a heat stroke on wheels? 

Texas farked around and found out - the hard way. And Phoenix farked around and found out - the hard way about density altitude and how it effects airlines in July.

Bikes are - at the very least - a seasonal item for the majority of this country and it's populace. 

For those in coastal California, have at it, but nobody it riding bikes in Atlanta in August when it's 85*F and 95% humidity.
 
2021-02-25 5:30:49 PM  

Mikey1969: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

Yet more people will be willing to use their bike to run to the store and load up with groceries if they have an assist system on their bike. I don't get the hate for E-bikes, but it's pretty farking viscous.


Why not just use a car though, at that point?
 
2021-02-25 5:31:35 PM  

Mikey1969: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

Yet more people will be willing to use their bike to run to the store and load up with groceries if they have an assist system on their bike. I don't get the hate for E-bikes, but it's pretty farking viscous.


My town is great for biking - tons of off-street paths, and enough on-street traffic that cars are pretty well aware of bikers at intersections or turns.

The ebikes on paths are a hassle because they typically roll MUCH faster than the human powered ones. The paths are used by walkers, with kids and dogs too. The differential between them an conventional bikers is already a bit of a hassle & danger. Ebikes going 20mph+ regardless of incline are worse. They seem less likely to slow when passing too.
 
2021-02-25 5:31:42 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


E-bikes make it possible to bike further. Ihave an e-bike and before COVID I would bike 10 miles to and from work. That's doable on a normal bike, but it's. wildly different experience, especially with hills and traffic.
 
2021-02-25 5:32:37 PM  

proteus_b: Mikey1969: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

Yet more people will be willing to use their bike to run to the store and load up with groceries if they have an assist system on their bike. I don't get the hate for E-bikes, but it's pretty farking viscous.

Why not just use a car though, at that point?


Because the e-bike is still better for the environment?
 
2021-02-25 5:33:08 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


But if I take my e-bike to the corner store instead of my e-car that's an even better cut in emissions.
 
2021-02-25 5:33:14 PM  

Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.


Good point. Here in hilly San Francisco, e-bikes are a godsend for those of us who might have to go up Nob Hill or *gak, huff, huff, puff* Russian Hill.
 
2021-02-25 5:33:44 PM  
Sorry about the chemo.  If your year is any indication, you only have 5 years on me.  Building the endurance is much harder at this age.  I've definitely thought of e-bikes as possible stepping-stones to regular bikes for a lot of people, but for older folks it's probably a one-way street.

I will resist any electrical crap on my bike for as long as I can, but time has its ways.
 
2021-02-25 5:34:37 PM  

OccamsWhiskers: Mikey1969: Cyberluddite: Noticeably F.A.T.: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

You're making the assumption that electric bikes are intended to replace non-electric bikes, rather than larger passenger vehicles (of any sort).

True, but if an electric bike works as a replacement for a car, there's already a suitable two-wheeled replacement vehicle available.  It's called a bike.

Yet more people will be willing to use their bike to run to the store and load up with groceries if they have an assist system on their bike. I don't get the hate for E-bikes, but it's pretty farking viscous.

My town is great for biking - tons of off-street paths, and enough on-street traffic that cars are pretty well aware of bikers at intersections or turns.

The ebikes on paths are a hassle because they typically roll MUCH faster than the human powered ones. The paths are used by walkers, with kids and dogs too. The differential between them an conventional bikers is already a bit of a hassle & danger. Ebikes going 20mph+ regardless of incline are worse. They seem less likely to slow when passing too.


Yes, people could be more considerate, but that still doesn't explain Fark's response to them.
 
2021-02-25 5:34:48 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Dammit, subby, NO!

I don't need any more of those obese morons taking up the entire farking bike path.


I like food delivery drivers threatening to run me down on their silent death bikes on the sidewalks, adds excitement to life.
 
2021-02-25 5:35:12 PM  
Everyone seems to want one of those fat(test) tire e-bikes these days.

It's like they don't seem to get it, and want a bike more like  a car.
 
2021-02-25 5:35:38 PM  

dericwater: Cyberluddite: Electric cars reduce energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (fossil-fuel-powered) cars.  Thus there is a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Electric bikes increase energy consumption and pollution as compared to non-electric (human-powered) bikes.  Thus there is less of a public policy reason to subsidize them.

Good point. Here in hilly San Francisco, e-bikes are a godsend for those of us who might have to go up Nob Hill or *gak, huff, huff, puff* Russian Hill.


Or Filbert
Only nuts try that one
 
2021-02-25 5:35:59 PM  

detonator: First world problems..


Seriously, right?
 
2021-02-25 5:36:42 PM  

sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.


Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.
 
2021-02-25 5:37:04 PM  

whidbey: Everyone seems to want one of those fat(test) tire e-bikes these days.

It's like they don't seem to get it, and want a bike more like  a car.


Yeah, I don't get the fat tire thing but to each their own. Mine is built on a regular mountain bike frame (the last e-bike Diamondback made as far as I know) but the battery is a dead giveaway. My next one will be completely stealth as far as looks are concerned.
 
2021-02-25 5:37:12 PM  

Wanderlusting: Because it snows in this country? And in the other half it gets so hot to make any vehicle without air conditioning a heat stroke on wheels? 

Texas farked around and found out - the hard way. And Phoenix farked around and found out - the hard way about density altitude and how it effects airlines in July.

Bikes are - at the very least - a seasonal item for the majority of this country and it's populace. 

For those in coastal California, have at it, but nobody it riding bikes in Atlanta in August when it's 85*F and 95% humidity.


"why shouldn't ebikes be subsidized" was the question.

I fail to see how "some places aren't suitable for ebikes some of the time" is a good answer.
 
2021-02-25 5:37:54 PM  
WTF is wrong with you people?
The bus will take you were the bicycle does
Now THIS is actually something that will bring you somewhere.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en​/​motorcycles/livewire.html

Leaves the Zero behind
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/moto​r​cycle-reviews/2020-harley-davidson-liv​ewire-vs-zero-motorcycles-srf-premium/​

Subsidizing this can get people out of cars in cities.  Bicycles are an alternative to shoes.
 
2021-02-25 5:38:01 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Huh
 
2021-02-25 5:38:45 PM  

jst3p: A "real" cyclist I ran into told me he had tried one once and admitted that "it took the parts that suck" out of cycling


So it has climate control?
 
2021-02-25 5:40:15 PM  

petec: sdd2000: The fact that the article uses a picture of an irresponsible rider, who is riding without a helmet does not help the case.

Is anyone breaking any laws?
Some states still don't require helmets on motorcycles.


Dude you are so Boomer.   Every time. I'm hoping you're Boomer Poeslaw.
 
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