Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Guardian)   Italians ready to go to war with New York Times   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, Italian cuisine, Mozzarella, Smoky Tomato Carbonara, classic Roman dish pasta carbonara, ire of top Italian chefs, farmers' association Coldiretti, NYT Cooking, real risk  
•       •       •

815 clicks; posted to Food » on 25 Feb 2021 at 1:35 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



35 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-02-25 1:45:19 PM  
They'll get over it.
 
2021-02-25 2:00:41 PM  
The article's relevance will last longer than the current Italian government - or any Italian government.
 
2021-02-25 2:03:53 PM  
> "Caprese is served with industrial cheese instead of mozzarella di bufala or fior di latte, while there are also cases of pasta with pesto served with almonds, walnuts or pistachios instead of pine nuts."

meh. the last pasta with pesto I made used elbow macaroni, peanut butter, cheddar cheese, and ground chipotle

It did include some frozen cubes of last years basil, lots of garlic, and EVO.

It was good.

I the pandemic wasn't crimping my shopping I might have bought more traditional ingredients, or maybe found some alternative greens. I wonder how mustard greens would work?
 
2021-02-25 2:11:35 PM  
Sorry, Italians. Giuliani broke you up so he could get in bed with the Russians and the Chinese. These things work in cycles, though.
 
2021-02-25 2:14:09 PM  
Were the carbonara wars of last week not enough? Must we rehash literally the same argument again this week? How much blood and bacon will ever be enough.
 
2021-02-25 2:18:54 PM  
"I followed this to the letter, except I substituted walnuts and tofu for the skirt steak, ditched the cheese entirely, and replaced the starch with a turnip salad. Turned out great. My seven-year-old boys have never seen a dessert and I've convinced them that walnut-and-turnip salad is "cake." Thanks for the recipe!"

/Stolen from The Toast
 
2021-02-25 2:35:42 PM  
As I said in the other thread about this, your food isn't precious.  The author made it clear it wasn't a traditional version. Carbonara is the base, and using that terminology makes it easy to relay to the reader.


It would be like putting salami in a cappuccino or mortadella in sushi.

Oh fark off.
 
2021-02-25 2:39:37 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-02-25 2:44:40 PM  

poorjon: "I followed this to the letter, except I substituted walnuts and tofu for the skirt steak, ditched the cheese entirely, and replaced the starch with a turnip salad. Turned out great. My seven-year-old boys have never seen a dessert and I've convinced them that walnut-and-turnip salad is "cake." Thanks for the recipe!"

/Stolen from The Toast


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-02-25 2:57:24 PM  

poorjon: "I followed this to the letter, except I substituted walnuts and tofu for the skirt steak, ditched the cheese entirely, and replaced the starch with a turnip salad. Turned out great. My seven-year-old boys have never seen a dessert and I've convinced them that walnut-and-turnip salad is "cake." Thanks for the recipe!"

/Stolen from The Toast


That sounds like a review on allrecipes.  "I made this BLT with a few substitutions.  I'm gluten intolerant so I replaced the bread with lettuce leaves.  I don't like tomato so I substituted extra lettuce.  I don't eat pork so I omitted the bacon.  The result was pretty bland, and didn't taste like a BLT at all.  Way too much lettuce!  I'd give it zero stars if I could."
 
2021-02-25 3:21:36 PM  
Guanciale tends to be difficult to source, so most people will substitute bacon.  People trying to keep the flavors traditional will use pancetta.  Pecorino cheese is not that difficult to find - it's sold in the US under the brand name Locatelli.  There is a world of difference in the flavor between sheep's milk Pecorino and cow's milk Parmesan.

Honestly, carbonara was originally a recipe that one could cook up in a few minutes and it had a reasonable amount of cheap protein (pork jowl meat and egg), a starch and some cheese.
 
2021-02-25 3:27:29 PM  
Another example of the Streisand effect. I would have never heard of that recipe but now I've printed it and I'm looking forward to try it.
 
2021-02-25 3:41:37 PM  
We have an "Italian" restaurant near here, where they basically have two base sauces which they call "marinara" and "alfredo.  They then make all their other sauces by adding something to one of the two bases.  So, their clam sauce is "alfredo" with clams added.  Their Arrabiata is "marinara"  with pepper flakes.  Their carbonara is "alfredo" with bacon (and mushrooms and peas, for some reason)
I suspect the two base sauces are delivered by tanker truck and pumped into underground storage tanks about once a month.
 
2021-02-25 4:01:05 PM  

phlegmjay: Were the carbonara wars of last week not enough? Must we rehash literally the same argument again this week? How much blood and bacon will ever be enough.


You put blood in your carbonara? Bleh!
 
2021-02-25 4:46:32 PM  

Cyber Duck: We have an "Italian" restaurant near here, where they basically have two base sauces which they call "marinara" and "alfredo.  They then make all their other sauces by adding something to one of the two bases.  So, their clam sauce is "alfredo" with clams added.  Their Arrabiata is "marinara"  with pepper flakes.  Their carbonara is "alfredo" with bacon (and mushrooms and peas, for some reason)
I suspect the two base sauces are delivered by tanker truck and pumped into underground storage tanks about once a month.


I've heard these restaurants described as "You want red or white?" Italian restaurants.

When it comes to the debate about authenticity, I like to apply the "Trillin Test", named for Calvin Trillin:  "Did it taste good?  Did it make you smile?"
 
2021-02-25 4:59:42 PM  

recombobulator: poorjon: "I followed this to the letter, except I substituted walnuts and tofu for the skirt steak, ditched the cheese entirely, and replaced the starch with a turnip salad. Turned out great. My seven-year-old boys have never seen a dessert and I've convinced them that walnut-and-turnip salad is "cake." Thanks for the recipe!"

/Stolen from The Toast

That sounds like a review on allrecipes.  "I made this BLT with a few substitutions.  I'm gluten intolerant so I replaced the bread with lettuce leaves.  I don't like tomato so I substituted extra lettuce.  I don't eat pork so I omitted the bacon.  The result was pretty bland, and didn't taste like a BLT at all.  Way too much lettuce!  I'd give it zero stars if I could."


Might as well link to the original:

All The Comments On Every Recipe Blog
 
2021-02-25 5:10:56 PM  

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: As I said in the other thread about this, your food isn't precious.  The author made it clear it wasn't a traditional version. Carbonara is the base, and using that terminology makes it easy to relay to the reader.


It would be like putting salami in a cappuccino or mortadella in sushi.

Oh fark off.


I guarantee you somebody has put mortadella on sushi, and there's a high chance it was in Japan.
 
2021-02-25 5:20:42 PM  

Auntie Cheesus: Pecorino cheese is not that difficult to find - it's sold in the US under the brand name Locatelli.  There is a world of difference in the flavor between sheep's milk Pecorino and cow's milk Parmesan.


User name checks out.
 
2021-02-25 6:01:30 PM  

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: As I said in the other thread about this, your food isn't precious.  The author made it clear it wasn't a traditional version. Carbonara is the base, and using that terminology makes it easy to relay to the reader.


It would be like putting salami in a cappuccino or mortadella in sushi.

Oh fark off.


Italians have been irritated about other nations and cultures taking the traditional names for dishes from their cuisine ever since the first UK cooking show called spaghetti in a tomato sauce with minced beef "Spag Bol".

Yes, adding tomato and smoked bacon to Carbonara would be akin to adding cocoa powder and nutmeg to a cappuccino.  They may taste good, but they do not belong in a cappuccino and if you add them, it's no longer a cappuccino.
 
2021-02-25 7:06:44 PM  

phlegmjay: Were the carbonara wars of last week not enough? Must we rehash literally the same argument again this week? How much blood and bacon will ever be enough.


I know, right? last time we (apparently) learned: tomaten == bad. guanciale == good. otherwise == GFY!!!

like putting salami in a cappuccino or mortadella in sushi
hmm...
- part (a.) seems like I need to go make some murders.
- part (2.) seems like... actually I'm kinda-sorta ok with it? musubi-love and all that.
 
2021-02-25 7:08:46 PM  
also I will damn-well make "pesto" with cilantro if'n I feel like it (although, small-apologies to soap-hating peoples of the world)
 
2021-02-25 7:11:41 PM  
although, this? this, I entirely support and endorse:

The NYT also triggered outrage in the UK in 2018 after publishing a recipe in which it described the Yorkshire pudding, a roast dinner staple, as a "large, fluffy pancake" that was excellent for "breakfast, brunch, lunch and dessert any time of the year"

/only because mocking British food is an irrational favorite pastime
 
2021-02-25 8:12:49 PM  

Auntie Cheesus: Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: As I said in the other thread about this, your food isn't precious.  The author made it clear it wasn't a traditional version. Carbonara is the base, and using that terminology makes it easy to relay to the reader.


It would be like putting salami in a cappuccino or mortadella in sushi.

Oh fark off.

Italians have been irritated about other nations and cultures taking the traditional names for dishes from their cuisine ever since the first UK cooking show called spaghetti in a tomato sauce with minced beef "Spag Bol".

Yes, adding tomato and smoked bacon to Carbonara would be akin to adding cocoa powder and nutmeg to a cappuccino.  They may taste good, but they do not belong in a cappuccino and if you add them, it's no longer a cappuccino.


People get pissy about their old world cuisines all the time. Doesn't mean it's usually not stupid. Again, the author clearly states it's not an "authentic" version and their job is to make it relatable to as many people as possible. Piggy backing on the carbonara name does that.

The idiot quoted in the article wasn't comparing adding cappuccino adjacent ingredients like nutmeg or cocoa. She said salami, which is farking moronic.
 
2021-02-25 8:15:50 PM  

tintar: also I will damn-well make "pesto" with cilantro if'n I feel like it (although, small-apologies to soap-hating peoples of the world)


Pesto can be made with all sorts of awesome ingredients.
 
151 [OhFark]
2021-02-25 8:48:44 PM  

Cyber Duck: We have an "Italian" restaurant near here, where they basically have two base sauces which they call "marinara" and "alfredo.  They then make all their other sauces by adding something to one of the two bases.  So, their clam sauce is "alfredo" with clams added.  Their Arrabiata is "marinara"  with pepper flakes.  Their carbonara is "alfredo" with bacon (and mushrooms and peas, for some reason)
I suspect the two base sauces are delivered by tanker truck and pumped into underground storage tanks about once a month.


That's honestly most italian places, and I'm not talking olive garden, I'm taking about places that tout themselves as "authentic" italian restaurants. I've worked at several like this. The ones I worked in the two sizes were both made from scratch and actually decent recipes on their own, but yeah I feel what you're saying, it's kinda shiatty.

You have to imagine a popular restaurant like an assembly line. You can't have different sized screws for each body part coming down the line, if it's a restaurant you can just walk into and get food, it's not gonna be any different. But it CAN be good, if executed well by everyone. Seems like the place you cited took horrible Applebee's type shortcuts. And that sucks.
 
2021-02-25 9:17:08 PM  
Any Italians griping about the lack of authenticity had also better stop cooking anything that involves corn, peppers, potatoes, or tomatoes, none of which existed in authentic Italian cuisine until they were brought in from the western hemisphere five hundred years ago.
 
2021-02-25 10:11:01 PM  

poorjon: recombobulator: poorjon: "I followed this to the letter, except I substituted walnuts and tofu for the skirt steak, ditched the cheese entirely, and replaced the starch with a turnip salad. Turned out great. My seven-year-old boys have never seen a dessert and I've convinced them that walnut-and-turnip salad is "cake." Thanks for the recipe!"

/Stolen from The Toast

That sounds like a review on allrecipes.  "I made this BLT with a few substitutions.  I'm gluten intolerant so I replaced the bread with lettuce leaves.  I don't like tomato so I substituted extra lettuce.  I don't eat pork so I omitted the bacon.  The result was pretty bland, and didn't taste like a BLT at all.  Way too much lettuce!  I'd give it zero stars if I could."

Might as well link to the original:

All The Comments On Every Recipe Blog


Hah!  "I just started Paleo yesterday, and I'm wondering if there's a way to make this without the ingredients."
 
2021-02-25 10:54:11 PM  

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: People get pissy about their old world cuisines all the time. Doesn't mean it's usually not stupid. Again, the author clearly states it's not an "authentic" version and their job is to make it relatable to as many people as possible. Piggy backing on the carbonara name does that.

The idiot quoted in the article wasn't comparing adding cappuccino adjacent ingredients like nutmeg or cocoa. She said salami, which is farking moronic.


People that work hard to perfect traditional cuisines have a right to get pissy when other people co-opt their cuisines because they're too linguistically lazy to explain a dish fully.  From the start of the article, it's clear that the author hasn't bothered to look at carbonara beyond Americanized recipes, simply by the use of parmesan.  Properly prepared, carbonara uses pecorino Romano - an aged, hard cheese from the Roma region.  An alleged food writer and recipe developer that doesn't know the difference would put salami in cappuccino if their super deluxe, automatic, one touch espresso maker allowed for it.

If the author had used the term " prepared in a style similar to carbonara", this would have made it clear that this is a variation to take advantage of easily sourced ingredients, but will not resemble a proper carbonara.  Honestly, I see the point - a crap version of a beloved dish becomes popular and pushes out the traditional.  A classic example is fettuccini Alfredo - classically, it is butter, a grind or two of black pepper and freshly grated parmesan, with just enough cream to smooth it out and cooked by the heat of the pasta.  It is not supposed to be a soupy mess.  However, the soupy style became popular so when one makes a proper Alfredo, folks don't understand it.
 
2021-02-26 1:12:52 AM  

Auntie Cheesus: If the author had used the term " prepared in a style similar to carbonara", this would have made it clear that this is a variation to take advantage of easily sourced ingredients, but will not resemble a proper carbonara.


It's farking implied to anyone with a lick of reading comprehension.
 
2021-02-26 5:07:38 AM  

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: Auntie Cheesus: If the author had used the term " prepared in a style similar to carbonara", this would have made it clear that this is a variation to take advantage of easily sourced ingredients, but will not resemble a proper carbonara.

It's farking implied to anyone with a lick of reading comprehension.


Easy killer. Save that level of animosity for our thrice weekly fark your NY/Chicago style pizza tillies. And no jazz before the rumble.

/and pineapple
//not so much sous vide anymore
///fark NY style three times
 
2021-02-26 6:27:37 AM  

recombobulator: poorjon: recombobulator: poorjon: "I followed this to the letter, except I substituted walnuts and tofu for the skirt steak, ditched the cheese entirely, and replaced the starch with a turnip salad. Turned out great. My seven-year-old boys have never seen a dessert and I've convinced them that walnut-and-turnip salad is "cake." Thanks for the recipe!"

/Stolen from The Toast

That sounds like a review on allrecipes.  "I made this BLT with a few substitutions.  I'm gluten intolerant so I replaced the bread with lettuce leaves.  I don't like tomato so I substituted extra lettuce.  I don't eat pork so I omitted the bacon.  The result was pretty bland, and didn't taste like a BLT at all.  Way too much lettuce!  I'd give it zero stars if I could."

Might as well link to the original:

All The Comments On Every Recipe Blog

Hah!  "I just started Paleo yesterday, and I'm wondering if there's a way to make this without the ingredients."


I know a caterer who was unironically asked if he could make his tomato bisque without dairy or nightshades.
 
2021-02-26 7:50:36 AM  

NINEv2: our thrice weekly fark your NY/Chicago style pizza tillies. And no jazz before the rumble


oooh I can't wait for the next one! those really are so much fun, and sometimes I even learn things! (I know, I know, learning things is 100% contrary to The Laws Of Fark, and yet...)

poorjon: I know a caterer who was unironically asked if he could make his tomato bisque without dairy or nightshades.


ugh, my $tiny_mind is struggling with that one, just, wow. although... hmm... I wonder what a truly competent chef could come up with, given that brief. we recently had a cracking good tzatziki from Tarzhe, which I only afterwards found out was, ugh, vegan (cashew+almond based, and normally I despise that nonsense!) - but the tomato part...?

this sounds somewhat interesting, but only because I love onyon carrots and beets -
http://savorynature.com/2014/02/14/no​t​mato-paste-nightshade-free/

meanwhile, some years ago at my favorite fish market in rural CT...

(on the phone)
me: hi, we were just in and bought a quart of lobster bisque and it just tastes... wrong?
owner: I know I know, the new kid thought he was being clever by using cheap sherry instead of the good stuff. look, eat the lobster chunks and throw the rest out. come in tomorrow afternoon we'll give you a new one on the house, and a refund as well.

as I recall, we used the refund to score another quart in addition to the free replacement one.
 
2021-02-26 10:03:53 AM  

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: Auntie Cheesus: If the author had used the term " prepared in a style similar to carbonara", this would have made it clear that this is a variation to take advantage of easily sourced ingredients, but will not resemble a proper carbonara.

It's farking implied to anyone with a lick of reading comprehension.


Yeah, and as many places that list "carbonara" on the menu, but combine bechamel, bacon and pepper, then top with a coddled egg yolk - I can see someone that has made a living doing carbonara the right way getting upset at bastardizations of that recipe.
 
2021-02-26 12:07:58 PM  
Let's be frank: it doesn't take all that much to anger Italians.

And this article is further proof.

I mean, I kinda mocked the recipe a few days ago, but I ain't mad at it. Being mad at stuff just because it's not your thing is dumb.
 
2021-02-26 11:07:44 PM  

Auntie Cheesus: Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: As I said in the other thread about this, your food isn't precious.  The author made it clear it wasn't a traditional version. Carbonara is the base, and using that terminology makes it easy to relay to the reader.


It would be like putting salami in a cappuccino or mortadella in sushi.

Oh fark off.

Italians have been irritated about other nations and cultures taking the traditional names for dishes from their cuisine ever since the first UK cooking show called spaghetti in a tomato sauce with minced beef "Spag Bol".

Yes, adding tomato and smoked bacon to Carbonara would be akin to adding cocoa powder and nutmeg to a cappuccino.  They may taste good, but they do not belong in a cappuccino and if you add them, it's no longer a cappuccino.


Cinnamon and Nutmeg are how Americans add flavor to flavorless cappucino made with burned green coffee beans at a mermaid-scifi cross-themed purveyor of fast food
 
Displayed 35 of 35 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking





On Twitter



  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.