Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Engadget)   See Apple, this is how you make a consumer friendly piece of hardware. You make the entire thing upgradable and even include the screwdriver needed to take it apart   (engadget.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Personal computer, Solid-state drive, Laptop, Intel Core, Framework laptop, former Oculus engineer Nirav Patel, Expansion card, Replacements  
•       •       •

1959 clicks; posted to STEM » on 25 Feb 2021 at 2:13 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



53 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2021-02-25 1:10:30 PM  
I will buy that, just on principle, and I'm a Mac guy since 1995. I have always replaced HDs, RAM, and batteries on my Macs since my first in 1998. Self repair is half the fun of computers.
 
2021-02-25 1:34:40 PM  
Apple's response: We want computers to be obsolete on our schedule, not yours, peasant.  Thanks for showing us the competition.  We will now crush them.  Good luck getting their "modules" in a year or two.
 
2021-02-25 1:35:59 PM  

Lambskincoat: I will buy that, just on principle, and I'm a Mac guy since 1995. I have always replaced HDs, RAM, and batteries on my Macs since my first in 1998. Self repair is half the fun of computers.


Oh - and THIS.  The battery in my MacBook Air is dying, and it's outrageously expensive to ship one to Alaska (like, more than the cost of the battery in hazmat fees).  I'm looking for a long-term replacement and will be watching this with interest.
 
2021-02-25 1:40:03 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Apple's response: We want computers to be obsolete on our schedule, not yours, peasant.  Thanks for showing us the competition.  We will now crush them.  Good luck getting their "modules" in a year or two.


Pretty much this. Apple is in the business of selling hardware. Always has been.
 
2021-02-25 2:23:30 PM  
I've replaced the battery and fan on my 2013 macbook air myself; it was dead easy.

Now.. taking apart my alienware M15R2 to have the CPU repasted? THAT was a holyshiat nightmare that I outsourced to someone less likely to misplace all of the screws.

...macs aren't that bad if you have the right tools. Which come included with the replacement parts. Which are actually cheap.
 
2021-02-25 2:30:05 PM  
I'll believe it when it ships.

Psylence: I've replaced the battery and fan on my 2013 macbook air myself; it was dead easy.

[....]

...macs aren't that bad if you have the right tools. Which come included with the replacement parts. Which are actually cheap.


I wish I had replaced the battery on my 2013 MBP before Apple stopped selling replacement batteries, because the current iFixit offering is crapola. If my old battery hadn't been bulging I would have returned the replacement for a refund.
 
2021-02-25 2:45:30 PM  

Psylence: ...macs aren't that bad if you have the right tools. Which come included with the replacement parts. Which are actually cheap.


I call BS on this, at least on modern MacBooks. Almost everything is either soldered to the MB, or glued in. Replacing the battery in a new MacBook Pro takes 1-3 hours and involves 66 steps. I'll be damned if I'm going to buy a professional laptop that I can't swap out batteries in a few seconds in, can't add/upgrade RAM, and can't replace the SSD in after I've purchased it.
 
2021-02-25 2:50:30 PM  

SoCalChris: Psylence: ...macs aren't that bad if you have the right tools. Which come included with the replacement parts. Which are actually cheap.

I call BS on this, at least on modern MacBooks. Almost everything is either soldered to the MB, or glued in. Replacing the battery in a new MacBook Pro takes 1-3 hours and involves 66 steps. I'll be damned if I'm going to buy a professional laptop that I can't swap out batteries in a few seconds in, can't add/upgrade RAM, and can't replace the SSD in after I've purchased it.


Those models are a BIATCH! I'm glad I'm not doing them anymore. If you ever find yourself taking one out of those or a Retina, use acetone to remove the glue, and a flat blade-edge to scrape it off the chassis. It makes a nasty, gooey mess, but the glue is made to be removed with acetone.
 
2021-02-25 2:51:22 PM  
i am go with the idea here that this entire "business" is just looking to get apple to buy them.
I do not believe that the laptop segment is that high a % of end users that tech peeps. Or maybe better said, sure we use laptops too, but the vastly bigger slice of laptop user pie, is base users that are not interested in doing any work on their system ever at all.

Like at  an average university there are way more ____ professors and researchers than there are Computer Science professors and researchers.

As well all the CS faculty and students, and IT peeps on a campus combined , still amount to fewer laptop users than all the staff, other department students and other department faculty.

On that sample set alone the vast majority of laptop users are anti-work on it. They expect it to work as is in a contained no user work needed shell. They do not want to do self repairs or upgrades they just want a newer one anyway.

And so i believe this business idea is not a real market viable one as much as it is, hey i bet if apple thought such a competitor might come to market, they'd buy it before it could and shut it down.
 
2021-02-25 2:58:36 PM  
While I like the overall concept, their "upgradable ports" are just USB C adapters in a proprietary form factor:
o.aolcdn.comView Full Size


By that definition, Macs are highly upgradable, and have even wider compatibility since they can use any USB C device without requiring that weird enclosure. I'm not even sure you could reach the internal ports on this with a USB C cable, so you'd require a "USB C to USB C" adapter, just to use a USB C device.

Again, good concept, but take it with a grain of salt, particularly while they haven't published any specs.
 
2021-02-25 2:59:37 PM  

PvtStash: i am go with the idea here that this entire "business" is just looking to get apple to buy them.
I do not believe that the laptop segment is that high a % of end users that tech peeps. Or maybe better said, sure we use laptops too, but the vastly bigger slice of laptop user pie, is base users that are not interested in doing any work on their system ever at all.

Like at  an average university there are way more ____ professors and researchers than there are Computer Science professors and researchers.

As well all the CS faculty and students, and IT peeps on a campus combined , still amount to fewer laptop users than all the staff, other department students and other department faculty.

On that sample set alone the vast majority of laptop users are anti-work on it. They expect it to work as is in a contained no user work needed shell. They do not want to do self repairs or upgrades they just want a newer one anyway.

And so i believe this business idea is not a real market viable one as much as it is, hey i bet if apple thought such a competitor might come to market, they'd buy it before it could and shut it down.


You do realize that this laptop is designed to cut down on electronics waste, right?
 
2021-02-25 3:02:10 PM  

PvtStash: i am go with the idea here that this entire "business" is just looking to get apple to buy them.


Why would they?  Apple makes money by NOT being user-repairable, and not by accident either.
 
2021-02-25 3:05:49 PM  
the only thing that isn't is the CPU, in fact. If you want to upgrade that, you'll need to pull out and return the mainboard,

So, it's not user upgradable. Just how often to you 'upgrade' the USB port without replacing the MoBo?
 
2021-02-25 3:17:08 PM  
Apple would never have survived if the Apple II's open architecture  had not been so easy to upgrade.  Once they had people hooked, they slammed the door with the Mac.
 
2021-02-25 3:29:09 PM  
I might buy one unassembled as I missed out on building my own Sinclair ZX81 back in the day and had to settle for the prebuilt Timex box. Also, since building reference platforms is an expensive undertaking it would not surprise me to see some competitors building their reference boards to fit this chassis to support early bring-up work.
 
2021-02-25 3:30:33 PM  

PvtStash: I do not believe that the laptop segment is that high a % of end users that tech peeps. Or maybe better said, sure we use laptops too, but the vastly bigger slice of laptop user pie, is base users that are not interested in doing any work on their system ever at all.


This isn't geared for the faint of heart. See also Pinebook Pro. These companies and products aren't for your typical Java chad.
 
2021-02-25 3:43:16 PM  

optikeye: the only thing that isn't is the CPU, in fact. If you want to upgrade that, you'll need to pull out and return the mainboard,

So, it's not user upgradable. Just how often to you 'upgrade' the USB port without replacing the MoBo?


Constantly... per their definition which is "plug something into the USB port".
 
2021-02-25 3:47:03 PM  
What is old, is new again.

If companies just stopped actively, purposefully, and with added expense, making stuff HARDER to replace, I would be happy.

A serious question: Is there any point to gluing everything in besides preventing repair or upgrade? It's not like shiat rattles around in there with just a couple screws holding it in.
 
2021-02-25 3:55:19 PM  
Nice part source for cyber decking.
 
2021-02-25 3:57:53 PM  
Went to the Apple Store yesterday to have them replace the battery on my iPad Air 2 for $99. They told me that because it was a unibody model, they couldn't replace it.

So they gave me a new refurbished one for $99.

Pretty happy about that, actually....
 
2021-02-25 3:58:34 PM  

Lambskincoat: I will buy that, just on principle, and I'm a Mac guy since 1995. I have always replaced HDs, RAM, and batteries on my Macs since my first in 1998. Self repair is half the fun of computers.


Yup. I remember owning one of the first G5 iMacs (revision A), and I had to replace several components long after the machine was out of warranty. Eventually, the motherboard failed (IIRC it was the GPU), and I was able to buy one off eBay and install that.

Over the years, it for to the point where newer model used computers were available cheaper than any of the replacement parts, and plus I needed something that ran a more recent OS. Fixing the old one was fun while it lasted, though.
 
2021-02-25 3:59:38 PM  

FlashHarry: Went to the Apple Store yesterday to have them replace the battery on my iPad Air 2 for $99. They told me that because it was a unibody model, they couldn't replace it.

So they gave me a new refurbished one for $99.

Pretty happy about that, actually....


My car has been in the dealer shop for two days now while the techs figure out how to fix their own brand car's breaks.  Maybe they'll offer me the same deal.
 
2021-02-25 4:09:34 PM  

Psylence: I've replaced the battery and fan on my 2013 macbook air myself; it was dead easy.

...macs aren't that bad if you have the right tools. Which come included with the replacement parts. Which are actually cheap.


I'm on a 2020 M1 MacBook Pro at the moment.
I don't think there is much that is user replaceable on this machine.
Apple is not the only manufacturer that is soldering and gluing everything down now.
They have just been working on perfecting it.
 
2021-02-25 4:13:44 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Psylence: I've replaced the battery and fan on my 2013 macbook air myself; it was dead easy.

...macs aren't that bad if you have the right tools. Which come included with the replacement parts. Which are actually cheap.

I'm on a 2020 M1 MacBook Pro at the moment.
I don't think there is much that is user replaceable on this machine.
Apple is not the only manufacturer that is soldering and gluing everything down now.
They have just been working on perfecting it.


Keep an eye on the NAND read/write cycles.
 
2021-02-25 4:13:51 PM  

Theaetetus: Again, good concept, but take it with a grain of salt, particularly while they haven't published any specs.


The Framework laptop is packing a 13.5-inch, 2,256 x 1,504 3:2 display which is hidden behind a series of magnetic bezels, making it easy to replace. It is also packing a 1080p, 60fps webcam with a hardware privacy switch and a keyboard with 1.5mm key travel. As for the chip, you'll get the option of selecting a quad-core 11th-generation Intel Core CPU alongside with WiFi 6, up to 64GB of DDR4 and up to 4TB of Gen4 NVME SSD storage.

From TFA.
 
2021-02-25 4:15:38 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Theaetetus: Again, good concept, but take it with a grain of salt, particularly while they haven't published any specs.

The Framework laptop is packing a 13.5-inch, 2,256 x 1,504 3:2 display which is hidden behind a series of magnetic bezels, making it easy to replace. It is also packing a 1080p, 60fps webcam with a hardware privacy switch and a keyboard with 1.5mm key travel. As for the chip, you'll get the option of selecting a quad-core 11th-generation Intel Core CPU alongside with WiFi 6, up to 64GB of DDR4 and up to 4TB of Gen4 NVME SSD storage.

From TFA.


How much does it cost, how much does it weigh, what are the dimensions?

/$5k, 5 pounds, and 5" deep
 
2021-02-25 4:23:46 PM  

Theaetetus: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Theaetetus: Again, good concept, but take it with a grain of salt, particularly while they haven't published any specs.

The Framework laptop is packing a 13.5-inch, 2,256 x 1,504 3:2 display which is hidden behind a series of magnetic bezels, making it easy to replace. It is also packing a 1080p, 60fps webcam with a hardware privacy switch and a keyboard with 1.5mm key travel. As for the chip, you'll get the option of selecting a quad-core 11th-generation Intel Core CPU alongside with WiFi 6, up to 64GB of DDR4 and up to 4TB of Gen4 NVME SSD storage.

From TFA.

How much does it cost, how much does it weigh, what are the dimensions?

/$5k, 5 pounds, and 5" deep


Ah, that info.

I'm guessing it's not going to be cheap.
 
2021-02-25 4:28:55 PM  

natazha: Apple would never have survived if the Apple II's open architecture  had not been so easy to upgrade.  Once they had people hooked, they slammed the door with the Mac.


The old PowerMacs were very serviceable. I always loved the way the case opened:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-02-25 4:41:21 PM  

BigLuca: What is old, is new again.

If companies just stopped actively, purposefully, and with added expense, making stuff HARDER to replace, I would be happy.

A serious question: Is there any point to gluing everything in besides preventing repair or upgrade? It's not like shiat rattles around in there with just a couple screws holding it in.


Genius Bar caught ripping customer off ON CAMERA by CBC News
Youtube o2_SZ4tfLns


The entire point is to make sure the cult members pay a premium for their stupidity. Which they are glad to do, and they will be smug about it
 
2021-02-25 4:42:48 PM  

cyberspacedout: Lambskincoat: I will buy that, just on principle, and I'm a Mac guy since 1995. I have always replaced HDs, RAM, and batteries on my Macs since my first in 1998. Self repair is half the fun of computers.

Yup. I remember owning one of the first G5 iMacs (revision A), and I had to replace several components long after the machine was out of warranty. Eventually, the motherboard failed (IIRC it was the GPU), and I was able to buy one off eBay and install that.

Over the years, it for to the point where newer model used computers were available cheaper than any of the replacement parts, and plus I needed something that ran a more recent OS. Fixing the old one was fun while it lasted, though.


Yeah, after 20+ years of upgrading one machine, I purchased a used desktop for less than the cost of upgrading the motherboard in my old one. But, I just purchased a M.2 card for the "new" machine.  Old habits die hard!
 
2021-02-25 4:50:54 PM  

natazha: Apple would never have survived if the Apple II's open architecture  had not been so easy to upgrade.  Once they had people hooked, they slammed the door with the Mac.


Apple desktop components were easily swappable (except for mobo/processors) until the current form factor of iMac.

Apple pro towers up until the trash can were always easily repair/upgradable for all but the mobo/processor. The new stupidly expensive towers are back to easy swapping, after everyone raised hell about the trashcans.

The new towers btw aren't really that overpriced IF you aren't getting the base model. The decked out machines have a much smaller Apple markup than the base and the more decked out you go the more it narrows.

Apple is cutting it's own throat with the base model tower though. It basically locks out little guys like me who would buy the base model because I want pro internals and longevity, but upgraded slowly over years as I needed.

So instead of me buying a pro laptop and a pro desktop on an alternating schedule every 5-10 years I'm now looking at a pro laptop as my main machine and the cheapest mini possible as a barely tolerable cheap back up to prevent down time if the lappy breaks.

Basically they're forcing me to spend about $1500 less than I used to every time I buy a new desktop AND since it's a backup machine I'll only be buying a new desktop when the current one is no longer functional.

It's all a net positive for my wallet, a downgrade for my workflow robustness, and pisses me off. None of which works in Apple's favor.
 
2021-02-25 5:55:29 PM  
Can you imagine what Apple would have to charge to maintain their profit margin if their product was repair and upgradable without having to buy a whole new unit?
 
2021-02-25 6:06:29 PM  
Hopefully the specs will be available so anybody can make an upgrade module. Not a 17" screen though, by the looks.
 
2021-02-25 6:26:12 PM  
The form factor, the ribbon connectors, the cooling requirements, and the fragility of the parts prevent a decent modular design.

/I looked
//like 10 years ago
///who will start the revolution?
 
2021-02-25 6:55:58 PM  

lifeslammer: BigLuca: What is old, is new again.

If companies just stopped actively, purposefully, and with added expense, making stuff HARDER to replace, I would be happy.

A serious question: Is there any point to gluing everything in besides preventing repair or upgrade? It's not like shiat rattles around in there with just a couple screws holding it in.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/o2_SZ4tf​Lns]

The entire point is to make sure the cult members pay a premium for their stupidity. Which they are glad to do, and they will be smug about it



Hey everyone, the people who are obsessed with conspicuous consumerism but have no money and are jealous of those that do are here projecting their insecurity as superiority again!
 
2021-02-25 7:19:16 PM  
As far as I know computers work using witchcraft and voodoo.

I just want one that works straight out of the box, and that will keep working. I have as much interest in pulling my computer apart and playing with its innards as I do in pulling my car apart and playing with its innards. Which is to say less than no interest, since those are things I am simply not going to be doing.

Now there are some people who love cars and motors and dragging engine blocks out and fiddling and twiddling with things, but I'm not one of those people. Ditto with regard to the computer.

The point being, making it 'upgradeable' is not a feature I look for.
 
2021-02-25 7:23:49 PM  

Mad_Radhu: natazha: Apple would never have survived if the Apple II's open architecture  had not been so easy to upgrade.  Once they had people hooked, they slammed the door with the Mac.

The old PowerMacs were very serviceable. I always loved the way the case opened:

[Fark user image 425x409]


Well, the old G5 towers used a liquid cooled processor.

They leaked.
Usually you don't find that behavior in a computer unless it's British engineered.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-02-25 7:33:06 PM  

keldaria: Can you imagine what Apple would have to charge to maintain their profit margin if their product was repair and upgradable without having to buy a whole new unit?


Apple's desktop market has gone to machines that are very specialized for desktop video/animation. Which sells with peoples 'you tube' channels.
It's really not the daily driver home machine you would want.

The laptops are good performance things...but again. It's overkill for doing word and email when you get to your hotel room.

Apple is racking up in the pad biz and personal devices with the iWatch, and speaker.
I think the idea of apple as a 'computer' company that makes consumer desktops is going away except for niche markets like desktop video publishing/editing for youtube and animation.
Which isn't out of their biz plan. The Mac was basically great desktop publishing machine....not so much great as a 'hub' for home use with gaming and common household use.
 
2021-02-25 7:49:08 PM  

Heliodorus: lifeslammer: BigLuca: What is old, is new again.

If companies just stopped actively, purposefully, and with added expense, making stuff HARDER to replace, I would be happy.

A serious question: Is there any point to gluing everything in besides preventing repair or upgrade? It's not like shiat rattles around in there with just a couple screws holding it in.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/o2_SZ4tf​Lns]

The entire point is to make sure the cult members pay a premium for their stupidity. Which they are glad to do, and they will be smug about it


Hey everyone, the people who are obsessed with conspicuous consumerism but have no money and are jealous of those that do are here projecting their insecurity as superiority again!


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-02-25 8:40:42 PM  
Nice.  Now, make a printer that uses refillable and/or 3rd party cartidges.

/I almost killed somebody over a Kodak printer that said my cartridge was "empty" because of the sale date.
//My blood is boiling, just thinking about it.
 
2021-02-25 9:14:31 PM  

Theaetetus: While I like the overall concept, their "upgradable ports" are just USB C adapters in a proprietary form factor:
[o.aolcdn.com image 675x675]

By that definition, Macs are highly upgradable, and have even wider compatibility since they can use any USB C device without requiring that weird enclosure. I'm not even sure you could reach the internal ports on this with a USB C cable, so you'd require a "USB C to USB C" adapter, just to use a USB C device.

Again, good concept, but take it with a grain of salt, particularly while they haven't published any specs.


Several of my laptops have had USB ports wear out or break. I'd like to buy several spare USB port connectors, just so I can replace the outer sockets when they wear out.
 
2021-02-25 9:42:44 PM  
So basically the guy invented the Business Laptop/Dell Latitude/HP Elitebook with choose your own ports.

- CPU, not socketed.
- RAM (SODIMM), SSD (m.2) and WiFi (m.2) modules are socketed on everything but Apple.
- Display easy to replace, like a Latitude
- Battery, easy to replace, like a Latitude
- Keyboard, easy to replace, like a Latitude

Back in the day, CPUs used to be socketed on laptops, and a few years ago, the Elitebooks (8x0 G1 and G2) had a pull tab to access the internals. Even then it's still just a few simple screws on the newer models.

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/HP+Elite​b​ook+820+G2+Hard+Disk+Drive+Replacement​/122934

And laptop GPUs are still available socketed, it's called MXM. But not on this machine.

I'd probably stick to the Latitudes or Elitebooks.
 
2021-02-25 9:48:05 PM  
Would be nice to have laptop sockets back, I remember upgrading the old Core 2 chips in laptops I had lying around.
i.redd.itView Full Size


Of course it still has the old limitations, like cooling, and chipset compatibility, but beat buying a laptop motherboard which often ran more than the whole laptop was worth.

Looks like MXM is still a thing, though.
graphicscardhub.comView Full Size
 
2021-02-25 9:49:41 PM  

mononymous: Nice.  Now, make a printer that uses refillable and/or 3rd party cartidges.

/I almost killed somebody over a Kodak printer that said my cartridge was "empty" because of the sale date.
//My blood is boiling, just thinking about it.


They've made those for a while now:

Fark user imageView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size


Spoiler alert: they charge a hefty premium over regular inkjet printers.
 
2021-02-25 9:52:45 PM  
Also people rarely realise, but laptop LCDs are often modular as well ever since eDP became the standard.

I have a Dell Latitude 5290 which was never available with a 1080p display. After a bit of research I found its display was also used in some Lenovo Thinkpad models which could be configured in 1080p. So I bought one of the Lenovo 1080p screens, shoved it in, good to go.

Have also just upgraded an HP X360 14-CD which was only available in 1366x768 which I got cheap because of its cracked screen.
 
2021-02-25 10:44:47 PM  

Lambskincoat: I will buy that, just on principle, and I'm a Mac guy since 1995. I have always replaced HDs, RAM, and batteries on my Macs since my first in 1998. Self repair is half the fun of computers.


What I'd buy instead would be something that you could plug a cellphone into, either over USB-C or Lightning or something, with appropriate peripherals (optionally including storage) and battery.
But that does sound like a nice screen resolution for something that small.
 
2021-02-25 10:49:17 PM  

Mad_Radhu: natazha: Apple would never have survived if the Apple II's open architecture  had not been so easy to upgrade.  Once they had people hooked, they slammed the door with the Mac.

The old PowerMacs were very serviceable. I always loved the way the case opened:

[Fark user image 425x409]


A feature which inspired one of their best ads from that era, IMHO:

Apple Power Mac G3: Open Commercial Vintage
Youtube BW3TMPirrXs
 
2021-02-25 10:51:34 PM  

dyhchong: RAM (SODIMM), SSD (m.2) and WiFi (m.2) modules are socketed on everything but Apple


You may want to open up a few more laptops.

Non soldered RAM is becoming rare in ultra books.
Some even have the SSD soldered to the board.
 
2021-02-25 11:04:51 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: dyhchong: RAM (SODIMM), SSD (m.2) and WiFi (m.2) modules are socketed on everything but Apple

You may want to open up a few more laptops.

Non soldered RAM is becoming rare in ultra books.
Some even have the SSD soldered to the board.


Ugh. Glad I don't buy consumer garbage in that case.

This is a representation of business laptops, it's not exclusive to the model, but this is what you get under 8 retention screws on the latest Latitude 3520 (which is the low end model of the series). EliteBooks, ThinkPads and the like are more or less the same.

i0.wp.comView Full Size



I guess that indicates the intended audience for Apple gear, consumer garbage.

Business grade stuff is designed to be maintained as they always come with next business day onsite warranties, and the suppliers don't want their technicians spending hours fixing one device. Come in, swap a part, leave in twenty minutes.
 
2021-02-25 11:06:39 PM  
But does it have a soul?
 
Displayed 50 of 53 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking





On Twitter



  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.