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(Kotaku)   Anthem Faces the Music   (kotaku.com) divider line
    More: Fail, BioWare, Anthem development, Electronic Arts, community of Anthem players, success of live service games, Game development, Decision making, final decision  
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818 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 24 Feb 2021 at 11:53 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-02-24 8:11:53 PM  
Further development on Anthem has been canceled

this used to be called "the game has been released"
 
2021-02-24 11:58:18 PM  

Mike_LowELL: Further development on Anthem has been canceled

this used to be called "the game has been released"


When Net Trek was released, sure.
 
2021-02-25 12:29:54 AM  
So does that mean Bioware is being taken out back to the death pit?
 
2021-02-25 12:32:36 AM  

JasonOfOrillia: So does that mean Bioware is being taken out back to the death pit?


They will have to toil in the Battlefield mines first.
 
2021-02-25 12:36:37 AM  
There are now games that you buy and you can tell them to make it better by complaining that it's not fun?

I'm old and stupid but I'm confused by a game that I don't just buy for X dollars and play from start to finish (or until I'm bored with it). I've bought DLC like three times only because I was enjoying the game so much and wanted the extra racetracks or whatever.
 
2021-02-25 1:09:20 AM  
0% surprised. Bioware has been dysfunctional for the better part of a decade, ever since the ME3 debacle (no Bioware, you dont get to defend your "artistic integrity" when your trilogy wrapup is a narratively disconnected straight up copy pasta reskin of the pick-a-door ending to the original DeusEx with the exact same 3 concepts of control/destroy/merge with AI). After that, MEA, and Anthems launch, theyve clearly lost whatever their original touch was.

Casey Hudson's involvement should have confirmed that Anthem was doomed.

I even played a bit of Anthem at a friends place, the flying bit qas cool, it was just grindy as all get out, devoid of interesting content, and clearly unfinished, that was never gonna get cleaned up.
 
2021-02-25 1:43:17 AM  
Now who could have seen that coming? A company run by sociopathic grifters lies to their consumers and has no idea what they are doing. Pure EA. I played my last EA game 3 years ago and I am never playing another. Fark that company, nothing but a bunch of gaming carpet baggers. They deserve bankruptcy.
 
2021-02-25 2:08:01 AM  

moothemagiccow: There are now games that you buy and you can tell them to make it better by complaining that it's not fun?

I'm old and stupid but I'm confused by a game that I don't just buy for X dollars and play from start to finish (or until I'm bored with it). I've bought DLC like three times only because I was enjoying the game so much and wanted the extra racetracks or whatever.


When the game is designed to be an ongoing, 'live services' game that people are expected to play for an extended period of time and newly releasing paid cosmetic content, etc, like, say, Destiny, The Division, etc...

Yes. Generally, the devs are going to want to make sure their game retains a high enough player base that they can keep milking them--or, at least, milking the whales.
 
2021-02-25 6:06:16 AM  
CDPR: "Wait, we can do that?"
 
2021-02-25 6:23:42 AM  
Anthem always felt like a shareholder driven exercise to me. EA shareholders putting pressure on saying 'Activision has their looter shooter and therefore we must too'.

It's such a me too game design, and not really what Bioware are best at.
 
2021-02-25 6:41:18 AM  

zbtop: 0% surprised. Bioware has been dysfunctional for the better part of a decade, ever since the ME3 debacle (no Bioware, you dont get to defend your "artistic integrity" when your trilogy wrapup is a narratively disconnected straight up copy pasta reskin of the pick-a-door ending to the original DeusEx with the exact same 3 concepts of control/destroy/merge with AI). After that, MEA, and Anthems launch, theyve clearly lost whatever their original touch was.

Casey Hudson's involvement should have confirmed that Anthem was doomed.

I even played a bit of Anthem at a friends place, the flying bit qas cool, it was just grindy as all get out, devoid of interesting content, and clearly unfinished, that was never gonna get cleaned up.


Am I the only one who was satisfied by the ending of ME3?

I burned those farkers out of the sky.

Any regrets about the peaceful Geth and that sex-toy bot? None.
 
2021-02-25 8:07:45 AM  
So much for "roadmaps".
 
2021-02-25 8:09:27 AM  
I find it amusing that the most fun players had in Anthem was when a bug increased loot drops significantly. It got patched out, of course.
 
2021-02-25 8:10:37 AM  

zbtop: 0% surprised. Bioware has been dysfunctional for the better part of a decade, ever since the ME3 debacle (no Bioware, you dont get to defend your "artistic integrity" when your trilogy wrapup is a narratively disconnected straight up copy pasta reskin of the pick-a-door ending to the original DeusEx with the exact same 3 concepts of control/destroy/merge with AI). After that, MEA, and Anthems launch, theyve clearly lost whatever their original touch was.

Casey Hudson's involvement should have confirmed that Anthem was doomed.

I even played a bit of Anthem at a friends place, the flying bit qas cool, it was just grindy as all get out, devoid of interesting content, and clearly unfinished, that was never gonna get cleaned up.


WOW came out in 2004. Bioware had been dysfunctional for nearly 2 decades. KOTOR is likely the last good bioware game.

I understand some people love the Mass Effect series, but it always felt like a knockoff generic sci fi story to me with no new or compelling gameplay and the franchise didn't have the story to keep my attention.

Then again some people find Halo deep.
 
2021-02-25 9:50:30 AM  

Quantumbunny: zbtop: 0% surprised. Bioware has been dysfunctional for the better part of a decade, ever since the ME3 debacle (no Bioware, you dont get to defend your "artistic integrity" when your trilogy wrapup is a narratively disconnected straight up copy pasta reskin of the pick-a-door ending to the original DeusEx with the exact same 3 concepts of control/destroy/merge with AI). After that, MEA, and Anthems launch, theyve clearly lost whatever their original touch was.

Casey Hudson's involvement should have confirmed that Anthem was doomed.

I even played a bit of Anthem at a friends place, the flying bit qas cool, it was just grindy as all get out, devoid of interesting content, and clearly unfinished, that was never gonna get cleaned up.

WOW came out in 2004. Bioware had been dysfunctional for nearly 2 decades. KOTOR is likely the last good bioware game.

I understand some people love the Mass Effect series, but it always felt like a knockoff generic sci fi story to me with no new or compelling gameplay and the franchise didn't have the story to keep my attention.

Then again some people find Halo deep.


Naw, for deep you need to really delve into the serious ethical and moral implications of the nuanced storyline of Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon.
 
2021-02-25 10:49:50 AM  

NathanAllen: zbtop: 0% surprised. Bioware has been dysfunctional for the better part of a decade, ever since the ME3 debacle (no Bioware, you dont get to defend your "artistic integrity" when your trilogy wrapup is a narratively disconnected straight up copy pasta reskin of the pick-a-door ending to the original DeusEx with the exact same 3 concepts of control/destroy/merge with AI). After that, MEA, and Anthems launch, theyve clearly lost whatever their original touch was.

Casey Hudson's involvement should have confirmed that Anthem was doomed.

I even played a bit of Anthem at a friends place, the flying bit qas cool, it was just grindy as all get out, devoid of interesting content, and clearly unfinished, that was never gonna get cleaned up.

Am I the only one who was satisfied by the ending of ME3?

I burned those farkers out of the sky.

Any regrets about the peaceful Geth and that sex-toy bot? None.


That wasn't really the problem. Shepard being dead and not living happily ever after and Joker not getting to bang the robot wasn't really the issue.

The problem was that basically none of the trilogy narrative was really concluded coontil they were forced to release several DLC's, not to add additional play/action content, but specifically to try and add *some* epilogue and narrative closure), the ending as portrayed (especially before they changed the gate explosion animations) basically left most everything in a lurch or actively killed off everything you were trying to save (regardless of what you chose), the "mysterious" reason the Synthetic Reapers repeatedly killed off Organic life was...to prevent Organics from making Synthetics that killed off Organic life, and that it was literally copied straight from Deus Ex (even right down to the red/blue/green color options, they just switched which was red and blue).

It's as if you got to the end of the Lord of the Rings, Frodo and Sam get to Mt. Doom to cast the ring into the Fire, and it cuts to the Death Star exploding from Return of the Jedi. It's not that it was a bad end, it was the end to a fundamentally different story that didn't conclude the narrative.

I could go on, but basically there was a litany of fundamental narrative problems (problems that even spoil replays of the earlier games, looking at you Starchild hiding in the Citadel the whole time), and Bioware *really* tried to stick to their guns on their "artistic integrity" where they had copied another game's ending. Apparently their original concept had been leaked most of the way through development so they changed it sorta last minute for whatever reason, and it just didn't work.
 
2021-02-25 11:14:59 AM  

NathanAllen: zbtop: 0% surprised. Bioware has been dysfunctional for the better part of a decade, ever since the ME3 debacle (no Bioware, you dont get to defend your "artistic integrity" when your trilogy wrapup is a narratively disconnected straight up copy pasta reskin of the pick-a-door ending to the original DeusEx with the exact same 3 concepts of control/destroy/merge with AI). After that, MEA, and Anthems launch, theyve clearly lost whatever their original touch was.

Casey Hudson's involvement should have confirmed that Anthem was doomed.

I even played a bit of Anthem at a friends place, the flying bit qas cool, it was just grindy as all get out, devoid of interesting content, and clearly unfinished, that was never gonna get cleaned up.

Am I the only one who was satisfied by the ending of ME3?

I burned those farkers out of the sky.

Any regrets about the peaceful Geth and that sex-toy bot? None.


I mean, sure, deprive Joker of any happiness in the wake of him losing his entire family.  Why not?

/you monster.
 
2021-02-25 11:26:36 AM  

zbtop: I could go on, but basically there was a litany of fundamental narrative problems (problems that even spoil replays of the earlier games, looking at you Starchild hiding in the Citadel the whole time), and Bioware *really* tried to stick to their guns on their "artistic integrity" where they had copied another game's ending. Apparently their original concept had been leaked most of the way through development so they changed it sorta last minute for whatever reason, and it just didn't work.


I've heard that as well, and it just boggles my mind.

So some aspects of the ending are leaked, so what?  How in the world does that then require a (hamfisted) rewrite of the entire ending?

I know how Mario 'ends' and I'm still going to replay it.  Sure, ME is a story driven narrative and as such the 'ending' is important.  But the ending is going to be known within about an hour of the game's release anyway, meaning 99% of the people playing it will have the option of knowing it before they play.

But man, they really did blow it - and you can tell how badly they blew it by how easy it was to fix.

Version 1 - weird interlude with Grampa (yeah, it was Buzz Aldrin or whatever, but in the moment I gave no shiats) and a pop-up letting me know that soon I'd be able to pay for more content!

Version 2 - Brief picture/text summary, not even much in the way of cut-scenes just saying - 'ah, you chose to save the Rachni, that means this happened.'

Version 2 completely satisfied the 'choices matter' aspect, and gave me the closure on what happened to the universe I'd been 'saving' for the last three games.  Nothing novel or any different than how games have been wrapping up for years.
 
XSV
2021-02-25 3:37:13 PM  

Jster422: zbtop: I could go on, but basically there was a litany of fundamental narrative problems (problems that even spoil replays of the earlier games, looking at you Starchild hiding in the Citadel the whole time), and Bioware *really* tried to stick to their guns on their "artistic integrity" where they had copied another game's ending. Apparently their original concept had been leaked most of the way through development so they changed it sorta last minute for whatever reason, and it just didn't work.

I've heard that as well, and it just boggles my mind.

So some aspects of the ending are leaked, so what?  How in the world does that then require a (hamfisted) rewrite of the entire ending?

I know how Mario 'ends' and I'm still going to replay it.  Sure, ME is a story driven narrative and as such the 'ending' is important.  But the ending is going to be known within about an hour of the game's release anyway, meaning 99% of the people playing it will have the option of knowing it before they play.

But man, they really did blow it - and you can tell how badly they blew it by how easy it was to fix.

Version 1 - weird interlude with Grampa (yeah, it was Buzz Aldrin or whatever, but in the moment I gave no shiats) and a pop-up letting me know that soon I'd be able to pay for more content!

Version 2 - Brief picture/text summary, not even much in the way of cut-scenes just saying - 'ah, you chose to save the Rachni, that means this happened.'

Version 2 completely satisfied the 'choices matter' aspect, and gave me the closure on what happened to the universe I'd been 'saving' for the last three games.  Nothing novel or any different than how games have been wrapping up for years.


So, there was a lot of hubbub around this.  Primarily that the main writer who wrote ME1, left during ME2 I believe.  The things I remember reading and for some reason can't find now, were that it was going to revolve a lot more around element zero (and I think dark matter?) and actually had the rest of the story planned out.

His departure kind of left everything up in the air going into 3.  There was an old PA post from one of the supposed writers of 3 that claims that everything had been by the writers room committee, which had most of the folks from ME2 at least.  but it was some new story director or someone, went locked doors with some nonwriters, came out and told the writer's room the ending, and brooked no feedback/committee that was procedure.

So instead the writer's room was relegated to trying to do all the side questions and everything getting people to the end.  Which is where ME3 excelled.  It fell apart when you got to the ending.
 
2021-02-25 4:22:38 PM  

Quantumbunny: zbtop: 0% surprised. Bioware has been dysfunctional for the better part of a decade, ever since the ME3 debacle (no Bioware, you dont get to defend your "artistic integrity" when your trilogy wrapup is a narratively disconnected straight up copy pasta reskin of the pick-a-door ending to the original DeusEx with the exact same 3 concepts of control/destroy/merge with AI). After that, MEA, and Anthems launch, theyve clearly lost whatever their original touch was.

Casey Hudson's involvement should have confirmed that Anthem was doomed.

I even played a bit of Anthem at a friends place, the flying bit qas cool, it was just grindy as all get out, devoid of interesting content, and clearly unfinished, that was never gonna get cleaned up.

WOW came out in 2004. Bioware had been dysfunctional for nearly 2 decades. KOTOR is likely the last good bioware game.

I understand some people love the Mass Effect series, but it always felt like a knockoff generic sci fi story to me with no new or compelling gameplay and the franchise didn't have the story to keep my attention.

Then again some people find Halo deep.


What does WoW coming out have to do with anything? Bioware has their own mmo, which is a different studio and was a brilliant clusterfark that is going on 10 years still running.

Bioware's strength was its characters and how they resonate in the story. The stories can be generic (how many times can you save the princess/the world?), but the characters elevate the story. You can name any pre-ME:A BW game and people will start listing the characters they love or hate. That was their niche, and that is what is missing in newer games. Who is memorable in MEA or Anthem? Compare to the game that was released before MEA.
 
2021-02-25 7:50:02 PM  

Duck_of_Doom: Quantumbunny: zbtop: 0% surprised. Bioware has been dysfunctional for the better part of a decade, ever since the ME3 debacle (no Bioware, you dont get to defend your "artistic integrity" when your trilogy wrapup is a narratively disconnected straight up copy pasta reskin of the pick-a-door ending to the original DeusEx with the exact same 3 concepts of control/destroy/merge with AI). After that, MEA, and Anthems launch, theyve clearly lost whatever their original touch was.

Casey Hudson's involvement should have confirmed that Anthem was doomed.

I even played a bit of Anthem at a friends place, the flying bit qas cool, it was just grindy as all get out, devoid of interesting content, and clearly unfinished, that was never gonna get cleaned up.

WOW came out in 2004. Bioware had been dysfunctional for nearly 2 decades. KOTOR is likely the last good bioware game.

I understand some people love the Mass Effect series, but it always felt like a knockoff generic sci fi story to me with no new or compelling gameplay and the franchise didn't have the story to keep my attention.

Then again some people find Halo deep.

What does WoW coming out have to do with anything? Bioware has their own mmo, which is a different studio and was a brilliant clusterfark that is going on 10 years still running.

Bioware's strength was its characters and how they resonate in the story. The stories can be generic (how many times can you save the princess/the world?), but the characters elevate the story. You can name any pre-ME:A BW game and people will start listing the characters they love or hate. That was their niche, and that is what is missing in newer games. Who is memorable in MEA or Anthem? Compare to the game that was released before MEA.


Brain fart really this morning, sorry.
 
2021-02-25 8:26:15 PM  

zbtop: NathanAllen: zbtop: about the peaceful Geth and that sex-toy bot? None.

That wasn't

It's as if you got to the end of the Lord of the Rings, Frodo and Sam get to Mt. Doom to cast the ring into the Fire, and it cuts to the Death Star exploding from Return of the Jedi...


You were saying?

Fark user imageView Full Size


You're right, but also, ME3 has some of the best emotional finales for companion characters. And many got different versions, which was a great narrative tool.

Mordis Sollus? He explains to you why he has to sacrifice himself, shows bravery in the face of fear and dies, with one regret; that he won't know if succeeded in righting his wrongs.

Whether you made the right choices or wrong you earned the deaths and survivals.

The ending is stupidly flawed, and mandatory horde PVE was a mistake, and that abomination  Kai Lang (satisfying kill though) but if you got to Marauder Shields and quit who cares?

You know who else wrote shiat endings to great stories? Pick an author. My favorite is Steinbeck. Never stuck a landing, once.
 
2021-02-25 8:33:30 PM  

Jster422: NathanAllen: zbtop:

Any regrets about the peaceful Geth and that sex-toy bot? None.

I mean, sure, deprive Joker of any happiness in the wake of him losing his entire family.  Why not?

/you monster.


fark him and his weak bones.

What, you thought he didn't trip and break his leg or EDI broke his pelvis then he died without super tech medicines?

Walking corpse Mr. Blue or Green.
 
2021-02-25 9:25:13 PM  

NathanAllen: zbtop: NathanAllen: zbtop: about the peaceful Geth and that sex-toy bot? None.

That wasn't

It's as if you got to the end of the Lord of the Rings, Frodo and Sam get to Mt. Doom to cast the ring into the Fire, and it cuts to the Death Star exploding from Return of the Jedi...

You were saying?

[Fark user image 425x420]

You're right, but also, ME3 has some of the best emotional finales for companion characters. And many got different versions, which was a great narrative tool.

Mordis Sollus? He explains to you why he has to sacrifice himself, shows bravery in the face of fear and dies, with one regret; that he won't know if succeeded in righting his wrongs.

Whether you made the right choices or wrong you earned the deaths and survivals.

The ending is stupidly flawed, and mandatory horde PVE was a mistake, and that abomination  Kai Lang (satisfying kill though) but if you got to Marauder Shields and quit who cares?

You know who else wrote shiat endings to great stories? Pick an author. My favorite is Steinbeck. Never stuck a landing, once.


ME3 did have some absolutely brilliant moments, as you note with stuff like Mordin Solus, that's a totally fair argument, but that was also the problem. Much like GoT (which fell off the pop culture radar in such a dramatic fashion it's become an entire sociological case study), they do so much so well, they clearly understand their craft and generate so much emotional investment, and then it all just kinda poops itself at the end in a way that undercuts the whole franchise and any revisitation. Like a relationship with someone you deeply cared about and had moments that will live deep in your heart forever, but came home to one day to find shtupping that one person from work you just *cannot* stand.

What really stuck it was Bioware spent a lot of effort standing there going "what's everyone's problem? you're not qualified to question our artistic vision" for months (when it was straight up copied point for point to begin with), then hamfistedly tried to polish the turd without actually changing anything but plugging a few plotholes and adding an epilogue slideshow and a crew-hangout DLC. That's a big reason why as soon as I saw Casey Hudson back for Anthem, I kinda figured it was screwed.
 
2021-02-25 10:18:14 PM  

XSV: Jster422: zbtop: I could go on, but basically there was a litany of fundamental narrative problems (problems that even spoil replays of the earlier games, looking at you Starchild hiding in the Citadel the whole time), and Bioware *really* tried to stick to their guns on their "artistic integrity" where they had copied another game's ending. Apparently their original concept had been leaked most of the way through development so they changed it sorta last minute for whatever reason, and it just didn't work.

I've heard that as well, and it just boggles my mind.

So some aspects of the ending are leaked, so what?  How in the world does that then require a (hamfisted) rewrite of the entire ending?

I know how Mario 'ends' and I'm still going to replay it.  Sure, ME is a story driven narrative and as such the 'ending' is important.  But the ending is going to be known within about an hour of the game's release anyway, meaning 99% of the people playing it will have the option of knowing it before they play.

But man, they really did blow it - and you can tell how badly they blew it by how easy it was to fix.

Version 1 - weird interlude with Grampa (yeah, it was Buzz Aldrin or whatever, but in the moment I gave no shiats) and a pop-up letting me know that soon I'd be able to pay for more content!

Version 2 - Brief picture/text summary, not even much in the way of cut-scenes just saying - 'ah, you chose to save the Rachni, that means this happened.'

Version 2 completely satisfied the 'choices matter' aspect, and gave me the closure on what happened to the universe I'd been 'saving' for the last three games.  Nothing novel or any different than how games have been wrapping up for years.

So, there was a lot of hubbub around this.  Primarily that the main writer who wrote ME1, left during ME2 I believe.  The things I remember reading and for some reason can't find now, were that it was going to revolve a lot more around element zero (and I think dark matter?) and actuall ...


I heard parts of that - and I can get 'Dude comes in with giant ego and totally ruins process that HAS BEEN RUNNING JUST GREAT UNTIL NOW'.  Maybe the 'gosh, we had to change the ending, someone guessed the secret' was just more bullshiat cover for what a load of poop the Starchild was.

And from memory, using eezo was farking up the stars and making them age prematurely, so the choice was something like 'sure, keep using the relays that the entire galactic civ runs on and destroy the stars in those systems' or 'welp, no more visiting other stars'.  i.e. Both of these options are bad, but them's the breaks.
 
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