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(Popular Science)   What actually happened to the engine on United 328   (popsci.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Initial focus, metal fatigue, De Havilland Comet, United Airlines Flight 232, Fatigue  
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1535 clicks; posted to STEM » on 24 Feb 2021 at 3:28 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



35 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-02-24 2:45:57 PM  
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/oblig
 
2021-02-24 2:49:58 PM  
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2021-02-24 2:54:45 PM  
Maybe I'm a weirdo here, but I'm thrilled that it all worked as planned.

Shiat, with ETOPS standards they probably could have just continued to Hawaii unscathed, but it wouldn't be a good move for possible damage to the control surfaces. But a 777 (and most modern twin-engine airliners) can take off cruise, and land with one engine, no problem.
 
2021-02-24 2:57:08 PM  
I noticed that the fire in the engine lasted a long time in the video. Did the pilot not turn off the fuel to that engine? Or are some engine components flammable?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2021-02-24 2:57:35 PM  
I just saw the "after" picture of the engine from the front last night. Shedding the tip of a couple fan blades is not supposed to shred the engine and punch a hole in the fuselage. Keeping the fan intact would be nice, but tolerating a fan failure would be better.
 
2021-02-24 2:59:15 PM  
A United flight starting with the number 2 having an engine explode? Glad it turned out better than last time.
 
2021-02-24 3:08:24 PM  
Metal fatigue? My money was on FOD. I guess the first blade broke off and became FOD at least, so that's not a total mis-guess on my part.
 
2021-02-24 3:33:26 PM  
The front fell off.
 
2021-02-24 3:44:43 PM  
A Hawaiian flight with metal fatigue?  Could have been worse:

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2021-02-24 3:46:42 PM  
The front fell off of it.
 
2021-02-24 3:47:17 PM  

SpectroBoy: I noticed that the fire in the engine lasted a long time in the video. Did the pilot not turn off the fuel to that engine? Or are some engine components flammable?


IIRC jet engines use allot of magnesium parts, and as a former Navy fire fighter we always trained that magnesium dares you to try to put it out.

(Generates its own oxygen when burning, why it gets used for flares)
 
2021-02-24 3:56:07 PM  
Oh how bad can it..JESUSFARKINGCHRIST
 
2021-02-24 3:57:59 PM  

Gleeman: SpectroBoy: I noticed that the fire in the engine lasted a long time in the video. Did the pilot not turn off the fuel to that engine? Or are some engine components flammable?

IIRC jet engines use allot of magnesium parts, and as a former Navy fire fighter we always trained that magnesium dares you to try to put it out.

(Generates its own oxygen when burning, why it gets used for flares)


That makes sense.
 
2021-02-24 4:08:32 PM  
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2021-02-24 4:08:53 PM  
...any landing you walk away from...

Try not to sit in the seat where you can see that line on the engine cowling.
 
2021-02-24 4:13:28 PM  
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2021-02-24 4:13:28 PM  

Gleeman: SpectroBoy: I noticed that the fire in the engine lasted a long time in the video. Did the pilot not turn off the fuel to that engine? Or are some engine components flammable?

IIRC jet engines use allot of magnesium parts, and as a former Navy fire fighter we always trained that magnesium dares you to try to put it out.

(Generates its own oxygen when burning, why it gets used for flares)


Magnesium will burn white though. Fuel would have ben shunted at the pylon when the "FIRE" handle got pulled for that engine.

These orange flames are other non-fuel hydrocarbons burning off from various ruptures. Think lubricating oil, hydraulic fluid, etc.
 
2021-02-24 4:16:02 PM  

NikolaiFarkoff: Maybe I'm a weirdo here, but I'm thrilled that it all worked as planned.

Shiat, with ETOPS standards they probably could have just continued to Hawaii unscathed, but it wouldn't be a good move for possible damage to the control surfaces. But a 777 (and most modern twin-engine airliners) can take off cruise, and land with one engine, no problem.


If the second engine died part way there, they'd be totally f**ked, so it's better that they returned to the airport.
 
2021-02-24 4:17:32 PM  
Headline: "what actually happened"
Article: "initial on-scene speculation"

Snark aside, they say it's pretty clear that it was a blade failure due to metal fatigue at the root of the turbine. So, parts begin sudden mass failure due to metal fatigue... hello, de Hallivand Comet, how ya been?

What I want to know is, how the **** do you make a HOLLOW turbofan blade? Cast the interior? Machine two halves and glue or weld them together? Machine radial segments? It can't be machine tooled as one piece 'cause there's no way to reach the end, and it can't be EDMed because there's no way you could remove that much material with EDM.
 
2021-02-24 4:22:47 PM  

bingethinker: NikolaiFarkoff: Maybe I'm a weirdo here, but I'm thrilled that it all worked as planned.

Shiat, with ETOPS standards they probably could have just continued to Hawaii unscathed, but it wouldn't be a good move for possible damage to the control surfaces. But a 777 (and most modern twin-engine airliners) can take off cruise, and land with one engine, no problem.

If the second engine died part way there, they'd be totally f**ked, so it's better that they returned to the airport.


4 Trees 2 Trees - DJO
Youtube o9ZD3AH-Cm4
 
2021-02-24 4:22:51 PM  

little big man: Could have been worse:


If that happened today, most airlines would have hit those passengers with "Spectacular View Upgrade" fees.
 
2021-02-24 4:31:06 PM  

erik-k: Headline: "what actually happened"
Article: "initial on-scene speculation"

Snark aside, they say it's pretty clear that it was a blade failure due to metal fatigue at the root of the turbine. So, parts begin sudden mass failure due to metal fatigue... hello, de Hallivand Comet, how ya been?

What I want to know is, how the **** do you make a HOLLOW turbofan blade? Cast the interior? Machine two halves and glue or weld them together? Machine radial segments? It can't be machine tooled as one piece 'cause there's no way to reach the end, and it can't be EDMed because there's no way you could remove that much material with EDM.


If memory serves, they get 3D printed now.
 
2021-02-24 4:32:00 PM  

erik-k: Headline: "what actually happened"
Article: "initial on-scene speculation"

Snark aside, they say it's pretty clear that it was a blade failure due to metal fatigue at the root of the turbine. So, parts begin sudden mass failure due to metal fatigue... hello, de Hallivand Comet, how ya been?

What I want to know is, how the **** do you make a HOLLOW turbofan blade? Cast the interior? Machine two halves and glue or weld them together? Machine radial segments? It can't be machine tooled as one piece 'cause there's no way to reach the end, and it can't be EDMed because there's no way you could remove that much material with EDM.


The one on that engine with the obvious internal ribs is probably skin sheets welded over a skeleton, or maybe halves with machined-in ribs welded to each other.  Other manufacturers are apparently welding skins around the edges then inflating the cavity with gas to create a completely hollow blade.
 
2021-02-24 4:43:09 PM  

roostercube: erik-k: Headline: "what actually happened"
Article: "initial on-scene speculation"

Snark aside, they say it's pretty clear that it was a blade failure due to metal fatigue at the root of the turbine. So, parts begin sudden mass failure due to metal fatigue... hello, de Hallivand Comet, how ya been?

What I want to know is, how the **** do you make a HOLLOW turbofan blade? Cast the interior? Machine two halves and glue or weld them together? Machine radial segments? It can't be machine tooled as one piece 'cause there's no way to reach the end, and it can't be EDMed because there's no way you could remove that much material with EDM.

If memory serves, they get 3D printed now.


IIRC this is 1990s technology so they are cast with the internal structure as fan blanks, then milled. Not as cutting edge as single crystal titanium turbine blades.
 
2021-02-24 5:14:14 PM  

bingethinker: NikolaiFarkoff: Maybe I'm a weirdo here, but I'm thrilled that it all worked as planned.

Shiat, with ETOPS standards they probably could have just continued to Hawaii unscathed, but it wouldn't be a good move for possible damage to the control surfaces. But a 777 (and most modern twin-engine airliners) can take off cruise, and land with one engine, no problem.

If the second engine died part way there, they'd be totally f**ked, so it's better that they returned to the airport.


2 engines takes you anywhere you want to go
1 engine takes you all the way to the scene of the crash

also some unknowable minor chance of structural damage to the wing from sustained exposed engine fire and ejected debris says you're landing immediately regardless of any thrust/weight math.  if you were out over the ocean that'd be one thing but theres no reason to play that game when theres other options.
 
2021-02-24 5:46:12 PM  

bingethinker: NikolaiFarkoff: Maybe I'm a weirdo here, but I'm thrilled that it all worked as planned.

Shiat, with ETOPS standards they probably could have just continued to Hawaii unscathed, but it wouldn't be a good move for possible damage to the control surfaces. But a 777 (and most modern twin-engine airliners) can take off cruise, and land with one engine, no problem.

If the second engine died part way there, they'd be totally f**ked, so it's better that they returned to the airport.


Yeah, but fark that.  I gots shiat to do in Hawaii. And what are the chances of another catastrophic engine failure in the same day? I say let's keep going!
 
2021-02-24 6:01:13 PM  
Engine went poof 4 minutes in.  The plane landed 20 minutes later.

So it flew 5x as long with the problem, than without.  That's kind of impressive.
 
2021-02-24 6:04:34 PM  

Gleeman: SpectroBoy: I noticed that the fire in the engine lasted a long time in the video. Did the pilot not turn off the fuel to that engine? Or are some engine components flammable?

IIRC jet engines use allot of magnesium parts, and as a former Navy fire fighter we always trained that magnesium dares you to try to put it out.

(Generates its own oxygen when burning, why it gets used for flares)


My dad had these coils of magnesium strip, we used to set them on fire (took a bit of time, usually a candle worked better than a wooden match) and the result was pretty sensational.
 
2021-02-24 7:18:44 PM  

erik-k: What I want to know is, how the **** do you make a HOLLOW turbofan blade?


Cast them with a lost-wax casting method. It's only been around for about 6,000 years. Polystyrene foam is used nowadays.
 
2021-02-24 8:56:28 PM  
not scary at all.
 
2021-02-24 9:32:25 PM  

Porkbelly: Gleeman: SpectroBoy: I noticed that the fire in the engine lasted a long time in the video. Did the pilot not turn off the fuel to that engine? Or are some engine components flammable?

IIRC jet engines use allot of magnesium parts, and as a former Navy fire fighter we always trained that magnesium dares you to try to put it out.

(Generates its own oxygen when burning, why it gets used for flares)

My dad had these coils of magnesium strip, we used to set them on fire (took a bit of time, usually a candle worked better than a wooden match) and the result was pretty sensational.


Old school camera flashbulbs.

The "steel wool" inside of them was magnesium.
 
2021-02-24 9:43:44 PM  

skyotter: Engine went poof 4 minutes in.  The plane landed 20 minutes later.

So it flew 5x as long with the problem, than without.  That's kind of impressive.


If that plane was fueled to go to Hawaii, it probably took most of those 20 minutes to dump enough fuel to get down to a safe landing weight. And empty out all of the blue ice the passengers created during minutes 4-24.
 
2021-02-25 12:30:36 AM  
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2021-02-25 12:49:01 AM  
Officials discovered one blade "embedded in the engine containment ring," Sumwalt said. A separate, littler piece ended up on a soccer field below.

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2021-02-25 11:09:34 AM  

bingethinker: NikolaiFarkoff: Maybe I'm a weirdo here, but I'm thrilled that it all worked as planned.

Shiat, with ETOPS standards they probably could have just continued to Hawaii unscathed, but it wouldn't be a good move for possible damage to the control surfaces. But a 777 (and most modern twin-engine airliners) can take off cruise, and land with one engine, no problem.

If the second engine died part way there, they'd be totally f**ked, so it's better that they returned to the airport.


There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots....
 
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