Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(TreeHugger)   Electric cars aren't going to save the world, but electric trucks might   (treehugger.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Electric vehicle, Electrification, topic of vehicle electrification, fleet managers, Automobile, electric cars, electric vehicle, Electric vehicles  
•       •       •

552 clicks; posted to Business » on 24 Feb 2021 at 9:40 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



57 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2021-02-24 9:42:37 PM  
I hear those things are awfully loud
 
2021-02-24 10:00:27 PM  
It glides as softly as a cloud
 
2021-02-24 10:25:34 PM  
Yeah, commercial vehicles are the way to go for EV's at this stage, their main advantage is lower maintenance and operating costs, at least theoretically.  Governments and corporations can pay the higher up front cost if the vehicle is cheaper to operate and lasts long enough.

For a comparison, most factories and warehouses have moved on to electronic forklifts now.  They're much more expensive to purchase than their propane counterparts, and when the batteries have to be replaced it's a big hit.  But over time they require less maintenance and you don't have to pay for propane.  They're cheaper to operate.

Electronic motors are much simpler than internal combustion engines, they should be more reliable and last longer by default, this is their one economic advantage over fossil fuels.  Their economic disadvantage is the cost of the batteries.

To put an EV in everybody's garage they're either going to have to be cheaper than they currently are, or be shown to last long enough to justify the up front costs.  Given the expensive batteries they require, the latter is the best way to go.  The downside is that it'll make 10 year auto loans the new norm... but hell, we're already at 8 year loans with modern ICE's.

TLDR version, if they can make reliable enough electronic fleet vehicles and semi trucks that are cheaper to operate than their conventional counterparts, governments and companies are going to go for them despite up front costs.
 
2021-02-24 10:41:36 PM  
To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.
 
2021-02-24 10:43:27 PM  
Cop cars, cabs, and all kinds of other fleet vehicles make up the bulk of traffic. Make just these industries electric, and we will have a huge dent in our pollution. Nowhere near all (Wanna head off the flame war here), but a lot. And that would increase the infrastructure for EVs, so the personal use market will increase.
 
2021-02-24 10:54:50 PM  
The recent link about making the US carbon-neutral mentioned the commercial vehicle space... I think not just for EVs but also as a more practical use for zero-emission hydrogen-fueled vehicles than personal cars.
 
2021-02-24 11:17:21 PM  
mY cAr iS sO gReEn!!!1!11
--every electric car owner living in the coverage area of a dirty coal power plant

we're celebrating trivia.
shiat like this is like bush's mission accomplished banner.

if you want electric cars to be 'successful' and 'accepted' pick a date.  no more than 5 years out.  build the farking infrastructure by mandate.  declare it a national security concern.  raise taxes if necessary - probably on gas.
after X no new vehicle shall be sold in the US with an internal combustion engine.
done.

then do the same for power plants.
then major manufacturing.
and start leaning on trade partners and mean it.
start setting aside resources for manhattan project level research into climate mitigation - trillions of dollars.

THAT is the level of effort and action that would deserve the kind of pat on the back the politicians and CEOs give themselves for announcing "oh hey we made a little bit of progress and now we might only miss this already inadequate 5 year goal by 50% instead of 80%"
 
2021-02-24 11:26:57 PM  

Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.


What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.
 
2021-02-24 11:52:05 PM  

Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.


For day to day Travel it's great but I normally go to Mexico once or twice a year and to visit my mom in California (I'm in Arizona)  you can't make those trips without huge downtime.  Which means I would either need to rent a car (now I'm paying for 2 cars), or own two cars all the time.  Same with Vegas you just can't make it.
 
2021-02-25 12:29:41 AM  

Incog_Neeto: Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.

For day to day Travel it's great but I normally go to Mexico once or twice a year and to visit my mom in California (I'm in Arizona)  you can't make those trips without huge downtime.  Which means I would either need to rent a car (now I'm paying for 2 cars), or own two cars all the time.  Same with Vegas you just can't make it.


Huge downtime meaning a half hour break somewhere?

Idiots who brag about "I drive from Illinois to Vegas without a break" (two of my HS teachers bragged about that) are, well, idiots. Get out, stretch your legs every several hundred miles. I do that as a truck driver.

It helps you keep more alert and less likely to fall prey to some other idiot playing on their phone instead of driving.
 
2021-02-25 12:34:24 AM  
I have posted this before. With the exception of last year, for obvious reasons, I drive to Reno from north of Seattle, 6-8 times a year. On the way there, I spend the night in La Pine Oregon, then to Reno. However, on the return trip, I always drive non-stop. It is a long drive, but no problem for me. I also drive to Missoula frequently.  An electric car is not practical. I'm still a long road trip person.
 
2021-02-25 12:42:45 AM  

BolloxReader: Incog_Neeto: Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.

For day to day Travel it's great but I normally go to Mexico once or twice a year and to visit my mom in California (I'm in Arizona)  you can't make those trips without huge downtime.  Which means I would either need to rent a car (now I'm paying for 2 cars), or own two cars all the time.  Same with Vegas you just can't make it.

Huge downtime meaning a half hour break somewhere?

Idiots who brag about "I drive from Illinois to Vegas without a break" (two of my HS teachers bragged about that) are, well, idiots. Get out, stretch your legs every several hundred miles. I do that as a truck driver.

It helps you keep more alert and less likely to fall prey to some other idiot playing on their phone instead of driving.


I'm not bragging about driving non stop, I stop to get gas and get stay over the night sometimes, but does my hotel in needles california have a charging station?  No, no it does not.
 
2021-02-25 12:48:00 AM  

Incog_Neeto: Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.

For day to day Travel it's great but I normally go to Mexico once or twice a year and to visit my mom in California (I'm in Arizona)  you can't make those trips without huge downtime.  Which means I would either need to rent a car (now I'm paying for 2 cars), or own two cars all the time.  Same with Vegas you just can't make it.


So you're unwilling to rent a car a few days a year (hey, use the money you save on gas to pay for the rental), or to use superchargers. Or fly (once covid isn't as much of a factor). And you're a single-car household so having the second vehicle be electric is out of the question.

With those factors, an EV might not be the right choice for you. But most people don't fit that pattern. Plenty of two car households out there could use an EV for daily driving and the ICE for long trips or hauling the boat. Plenty of people like me who have never driven over 500 miles in one day and if they did wouldn't mind a break midway.

Have you heard what they're doing with battery tech these days? In 2010 a 1 kWh battery cost $1100 to make. Which is why a Tesla Roadster in 2010 with a 56 kWh battery was like $110,000. Now it's $140 or so per kWh. Predicted to be about $100 in 2023, at which point an EV will cost the same as an ICE of the same model. But without the expense and frequent inconvenience of ICE maintenance. And of course, running on electricity that costs half what gas does. People will be buying in droves for the economic factors, not just to quit burning gas.
 
2021-02-25 1:04:52 AM  
Diesel cargo ships pollute more than cars by an order of magnitude
 
2021-02-25 1:46:54 AM  

Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.


A 379 mile range in ideal conditions. Anybody living in the snow belt at this time of year is looking at a more realistic range of 230 miles for that same car. If I were to go from my place in Milwaukee to my inlaws house 300 miles away in Minneapolis this weekend, it would be impossible without a recharge on the way. There are charging stations in Madison, Eau Claire, and a little East of St. Paul. Since I'd lack the range to get to Eau Claire, I'd have to stop for a charge in Madison. Since MPLS would still be out of range from Madison, I'd also have to stop at Eau Claire. Upon getting to the inlaw's, I'd have to be very careful about doing any driving while I'm there, otherwise it farks up my return plan of stopping in Eau Claire and Madison. That's because even if I charge up in St. Paul, I wouldn't have enough juice to get to Madison, forcing a stop in Eau Claire. Confused yet? Yeah. That's what we call a "range issue".
 
2021-02-25 2:26:48 AM  

Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.


In every single home, yes. In the vast majority of homes, no.

I drive about 20,000mi per year, and I do fine with a relatively small battery EV (40kWh nominal, 37kWgh with buffer and degradation).
 
2021-02-25 2:31:34 AM  

toddalmighty: Diesel cargo ships pollute more than cars by an order of magnitude


Some people say cucumbers taste better pickled.

What point did you think you were making there?
 
2021-02-25 3:48:51 AM  
So it sees that electric vehicles are better for cost per mile, easier maintenance, better at stop-and-go traffic, and produce fewer emissions (their power comes from a more efficient power plant than a vehicle-sized diesel).  ICE engines have an advantage in range.

So companies will work with both.  Use the ICE trucks to haul goods long-distance, and electric vehicles for relatively short-distance operations (in-city or nearby-city hauling).  As more corporate locations start adding rechargers the network can expand.  ICE trucks will still be needed to haul materials into natural disaster locations, as the electric network might not be intact.  Recharge time will become another issue that will need to be addressed, as in-city trucks can be recharged when not in use, while inter-city trucks will need extra time to fill up their cells (or multiple recharge ports?)

One of the key requirements should be making a common recharger setup for everyone to use, so you don't have the same issue as cell phone makers having their own custom recharger formats then being forced to use one format.
 
2021-02-25 5:51:25 AM  

oopsboom: mY cAr iS sO gReEn!!!1!11
--every electric car owner living in the coverage area of a dirty coal power plant

we're celebrating trivia.
shiat like this is like bush's mission accomplished banner.

if you want electric cars to be 'successful' and 'accepted' pick a date.  no more than 5 years out.  build the farking infrastructure by mandate.  declare it a national security concern.  raise taxes if necessary - probably on gas.
after X no new vehicle shall be sold in the US with an internal combustion engine.
done.

then do the same for power plants.
then major manufacturing.
and start leaning on trade partners and mean it.
start setting aside resources for manhattan project level research into climate mitigation - trillions of dollars.

THAT is the level of effort and action that would deserve the kind of pat on the back the politicians and CEOs give themselves for announcing "oh hey we made a little bit of progress and now we might only miss this already inadequate 5 year goal by 50% instead of 80%"


Command economies don't work, that's why
 
2021-02-25 6:05:52 AM  

wiseolddude: I have posted this before. With the exception of last year, for obvious reasons, I drive to Reno from north of Seattle, 6-8 times a year. On the way there, I spend the night in La Pine Oregon, then to Reno. However, on the return trip, I always drive non-stop. It is a long drive, but no problem for me. I also drive to Missoula frequently.  An electric car is not practical. I'm still a long road trip person.


The long trips are a rarity, even for you. 8 days out of 260 work days per year is 3%...2% if you use the year (365 days) as a whole. If someone has family visit twice per year but lives with only a partner otherwise, do they limit themselves to a 5 bedroom home for those rare cases?

Charging is a thing. Electric vehicles will be fine. I've done many long drives. Hell,  college was over 400 miles away from home. I routinely (15+) came home without stopping any longer than it took to top up on gas. Stopping to charge an EV ....would have felt like a bummer then. But I was 20....and looking back, a small rest would have done me good.
 
2021-02-25 6:22:25 AM  

Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.


You do understand that the difference in power required to take a dinky little car up a hill is far, FAR lower than the power required to take a fully loaded semi up the same hill right? I could easily see an electric semi running out of power every hour in mountain terrain
 
2021-02-25 6:46:22 AM  

Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.


I love fark.  Someone says "to get an ev in every home you need X" and the response is "well I don't need X so why is there even a problem".
 
2021-02-25 7:34:58 AM  

TheAlgebraist: Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.

I love fark.  Someone says "to get an ev in every home you need X" and the response is "well I don't need X so why is there even a problem".


My other favorite is the rent a car/take a plane response that is always dragged out when people talk about the range of evs.
 
2021-02-25 7:51:27 AM  

sprgrss: TheAlgebraist: Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.

I love fark.  Someone says "to get an ev in every home you need X" and the response is "well I don't need X so why is there even a problem".

My other favorite is the rent a car/take a plane response that is always dragged out when people talk about the range of evs.


I think it's reasonable to have one vehicle for everyday use and rent another for special or unusual occasions.  That's more reasonable than having two vehicles, one of which rarely gets driven.

Flying instead of driving is less clear.  I think I read somewhere that one long-haul flight is as polluting as a year of regular driving.  What should happen is, instead of debating flying vs. driving people should just stay home and vacation nearby, but that's not likely to happen as long as flying is affordable.
 
2021-02-25 8:18:20 AM  

Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.


Nonsense. What needs to be fixed is:
1. Home charging options; mostly a problem for renters and/or apartments and condos. 240v 50A sockets need to be the standard offered to at least a portion of renters to make EVs widely acceptable.
2. Work charging options. I had a Bolt EV as a loaner car this week (Cruze was in the shop). I found out the hard way that BOTH chargers at my work are broken.
3. Fast charging network needs to expand. City and state governments need to get on this to offer charging at rest stops, locations in cities, and subsidies to offer it at major fuel stops along interstates and fuel stops within cities.
 
2021-02-25 8:22:27 AM  

toddalmighty: Diesel cargo ships pollute more than cars by an order of magnitude


Worse are all the railroad locomotives 40+ years old that are rebuilt to last another 40+ years of use.
 
2021-02-25 8:23:21 AM  

pheelix: Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.

A 379 mile range in ideal conditions. Anybody living in the snow belt at this time of year is looking at a more realistic range of 230 miles for that same car. If I were to go from my place in Milwaukee to my inlaws house 300 miles away in Minneapolis this weekend, it would be impossible without a recharge on the way. There are charging stations in Madison, Eau Claire, and a little East of St. Paul. Since I'd lack the range to get to Eau Claire, I'd have to stop for a charge in Madison. Since MPLS would still be out of range from Madison, I'd also have to stop at Eau Claire. Upon getting to the inlaw's, I'd have to be very careful about doing any driving while I'm there, otherwise it farks up my return plan of stopping in Eau Claire and Madison. That's because even if I charge up in St. Paul, I wouldn't have enough juice to get to Madison, forcing a stop in Eau Claire. Confused yet? Yeah. That's what we call a "range issue".


Your in-laws don't have a plug you could use while there?
 
2021-02-25 8:25:07 AM  

lifeslammer: Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.

You do understand that the difference in power required to take a dinky little car up a hill is far, FAR lower than the power required to take a fully loaded semi up the same hill right? I could easily see an electric semi running out of power every hour in mountain terrain


With regen on the downhill trip, you recover a lot of the charge used to climb the hill.
 
2021-02-25 8:26:02 AM  

sprgrss: TheAlgebraist: Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.

I love fark.  Someone says "to get an ev in every home you need X" and the response is "well I don't need X so why is there even a problem".

My other favorite is the rent a car/take a plane response that is always dragged out when people talk about the range of evs.


No shiat. The hassle of not having your car at the destination can be huge.
 
2021-02-25 8:32:45 AM  

mrmopar5287: pheelix: Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.

A 379 mile range in ideal conditions. Anybody living in the snow belt at this time of year is looking at a more realistic range of 230 miles for that same car. If I were to go from my place in Milwaukee to my inlaws house 300 miles away in Minneapolis this weekend, it would be impossible without a recharge on the way. There are charging stations in Madison, Eau Claire, and a little East of St. Paul. Since I'd lack the range to get to Eau Claire, I'd have to stop for a charge in Madison. Since MPLS would still be out of range from Madison, I'd also have to stop at Eau Claire. Upon getting to the inlaw's, I'd have to be very careful about doing any driving while I'm there, otherwise it farks up my return plan of stopping in Eau Claire and Madison. That's because even if I charge up in St. Paul, I wouldn't have enough juice to get to Madison, forcing a stop in Eau Claire. Confused yet? Yeah. That's what we call a "range issue".

Your in-laws don't have a plug you could use while there?


Takes 3 days thru a standard 120V outlet, plus it would just be rude.
 
2021-02-25 9:39:26 AM  

pheelix: mrmopar5287: pheelix: Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.

A 379 mile range in ideal conditions. Anybody living in the snow belt at this time of year is looking at a more realistic range of 230 miles for that same car. If I were to go from my place in Milwaukee to my inlaws house 300 miles away in Minneapolis this weekend, it would be impossible without a recharge on the way. There are charging stations in Madison, Eau Claire, and a little East of St. Paul. Since I'd lack the range to get to Eau Claire, I'd have to stop for a charge in Madison. Since MPLS would still be out of range from Madison, I'd also have to stop at Eau Claire. Upon getting to the inlaw's, I'd have to be very careful about doing any driving while I'm there, otherwise it farks up my return plan of stopping in Eau Claire and Madison. That's because even if I charge up in St. Paul, I wouldn't have enough juice to get to Madison, forcing a stop in Eau Claire. Confused yet? Yeah. That's what we call a "range issue".

Your in-laws don't have a plug you could use while there?

Takes 3 days thru a standard 120V outlet, plus it would just be rude.


Sure, but it can at least top you off when you get the chance.

And if you have in-laws that would take offense to you asking to plug an EV in at their house, you have bigger problems that I cannot solve.
 
2021-02-25 11:40:22 AM  

TheAlgebraist: Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.

I love fark.  Someone says "to get an ev in every home you need X" and the response is "well I don't need X so why is there even a problem".


I love fark.  Someone says "to get an ev in every home we just need X" and the response is "well I don't like that".
 
2021-02-25 12:13:31 PM  

Incog_Neeto: BolloxReader: Incog_Neeto: Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.

For day to day Travel it's great but I normally go to Mexico once or twice a year and to visit my mom in California (I'm in Arizona)  you can't make those trips without huge downtime.  Which means I would either need to rent a car (now I'm paying for 2 cars), or own two cars all the time.  Same with Vegas you just can't make it.

Huge downtime meaning a half hour break somewhere?

Idiots who brag about "I drive from Illinois to Vegas without a break" (two of my HS teachers bragged about that) are, well, idiots. Get out, stretch your legs every several hundred miles. I do that as a truck driver.

It helps you keep more alert and less likely to fall prey to some other idiot playing on their phone instead of driving.

I'm not bragging about driving non stop, I stop to get gas and get stay over the night sometimes, but does my hotel in needles california have a charging station?  No, no it does not.


Which hotel? The Quality Inn has one and there seems to be a DC Fast charging station right across the street. Needles looks pretty small on the map, with most of the hotels in walking distance.
 
2021-02-25 12:16:23 PM  

Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.


The range of current-gen EVs is more than adequate now for 99% of daily trips.  The real problem is the sluggish rate of charging for drivers taking long trips or who do not have access to a charger at either home or work.

There was an article over on Ars the other week about a company that has devised a Li-ion battery pack that can maintain its peak charge rate for the entire duration of the charge, which in theory would mean that you could fully charge an EV in under 10 minutes.  The downside was that capacity was about half of a traditional Li-ion battery.

However, as building codes start to require Level 2 chargers in more places, the need for DC fast charging for non-commercial vehicles may never end up all that great.  And drivers may not want to sacrifice so much range just for super-fast charging for the occasional long trip.
 
2021-02-25 12:34:12 PM  

pheelix: Takes 3 days thru a standard 120V outlet, plus it would just be rude.


The national building code here in the US has settled on 240V40A (9.6 kW) minimum per vehicle as the baseline for residential charging stations.  To charge a Tesla Model S LR from 20% to 80% (an additional 234 mi/376 km of range) on that circuit would take just under 7 hours and would cost around $8 at 12¢/kWh.

So as those sorts of connectors become more common, having to run a cable to a wimpy 120V15A (1.8 kW) outlet should become a thing of the past.  And if your guests complain about $8 worth of juice, are they worth such a long drive to see them?
 
2021-02-25 12:53:50 PM  

Cthushi: So it sees that electric vehicles are better for cost per mile, easier maintenance, better at stop-and-go traffic, and produce fewer emissions (their power comes from a more efficient power plant than a vehicle-sized diesel).  ICE engines have an advantage in range.

So companies will work with both.  Use the ICE trucks to haul goods long-distance, and electric vehicles for relatively short-distance operations (in-city or nearby-city hauling).  As more corporate locations start adding rechargers the network can expand.  ICE trucks will still be needed to haul materials into natural disaster locations, as the electric network might not be intact.  Recharge time will become another issue that will need to be addressed, as in-city trucks can be recharged when not in use, while inter-city trucks will need extra time to fill up their cells (or multiple recharge ports?)

One of the key requirements should be making a common recharger setup for everyone to use, so you don't have the same issue as cell phone makers having their own custom recharger formats then being forced to use one format.


The market is converging on two charging setups. The Tesla connector for Tesla only, and in the US J-1772 w/ CCS/SAE for everything else. Europe and Japan have their own single charging port standard that is the alternate to Tesla in their market.
 
2021-02-25 1:11:24 PM  

Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.


600 miles from Salt Lake to Phoenix. I pass a million gas stations, but only know of a single charging station.

I shouldn't have to pull out my phone and search an app, I should be able to pull over at gas stations that dot the sides of the highway. Put real infrastructure in place and this all changes.
 
2021-02-25 1:57:25 PM  

Mikey1969: Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.

600 miles from Salt Lake to Phoenix. I pass a million gas stations, but only know of a single charging station.

I shouldn't have to pull out my phone and search an app, I should be able to pull over at gas stations that dot the sides of the highway. Put real infrastructure in place and this all changes.


There are eleven Tesla-compatible and six CCS-compatible public 70+ kW charging locations between SLC and PHX (via Paige).  That's not bad given that half the route is only two-lane highway as opposed to freeway.

/sure would be nice if I-17 was extended to I-15
//that stretch of US-89 sucks on holiday weekends
 
2021-02-25 2:00:33 PM  

Mikey1969: Marksrevenge: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

What is the range issue?  Tesla makes a car that has 379 mile range. I personally have never driven 379 miles in one day in my life (330 is my record). If I needed to push it to 500 miles, half an hour at a Tesla supercharger wouldn't be a big deal.

I mean, some people do routinely drive cross country without a minute to spare on a regular basis but that's not most people. AAA says the average American goes 29.2 miles per day.

600 miles from Salt Lake to Phoenix. I pass a million gas stations, but only know of a single charging station.

I shouldn't have to pull out my phone and search an app, I should be able to pull over at gas stations that dot the sides of the highway. Put real infrastructure in place and this all changes.


Which way do you go, through Kanab and Flagstaff? There's a dozen or so charging stations for CCS and 8 for Teslas.

100 or so years ago I'm sure there were people arguing that finding hay and a trough of cleanish water for their horse was much easier than finding a gas station in the middle of nowhere too.  We're in a state of transition and EV infrastructure and fast charging will get better over time.
 
2021-02-25 2:16:52 PM  

Dinjiin: There are eleven Tesla-compatible and six CCS-compatible public 70+ kW charging locations between SLC and PHX (via Paige).  That's not bad given that half the route is only two-lane highway as opposed to freeway.


steve_wmn: Which way do you go, through Kanab and Flagstaff? There's a dozen or so charging stations for CCS and 8 for Teslas.


I would never go thru Page. Lake Powell is an abomination.

And Kanab and Flag is my preferred route, but too isolated to make the wife comfortable.

Once again, it's the having to search for this shiat. All I said is that the infrastructure has to be there. I have to know they're as easy to find as gas stations. And they should be. This takes FAR less equipment than a gas station. There is no need for huge underground tanks, and no need for pumps that can spray highly flammable liquid allover the ground. We need a program to add these at existing gas stations and incentivize it. It takes up less room and much easier to manage equipment, this should be a no brainer. Side by side gas pumping and EV charging.
 
2021-02-25 2:41:13 PM  

Mikey1969: Dinjiin: There are eleven Tesla-compatible and six CCS-compatible public 70+ kW charging locations between SLC and PHX (via Paige).  That's not bad given that half the route is only two-lane highway as opposed to freeway.

steve_wmn: Which way do you go, through Kanab and Flagstaff? There's a dozen or so charging stations for CCS and 8 for Teslas.

I would never go thru Page. Lake Powell is an abomination.

And Kanab and Flag is my preferred route, but too isolated to make the wife comfortable.

Once again, it's the having to search for this shiat. All I said is that the infrastructure has to be there. I have to know they're as easy to find as gas stations. And they should be. This takes FAR less equipment than a gas station. There is no need for huge underground tanks, and no need for pumps that can spray highly flammable liquid allover the ground. We need a program to add these at existing gas stations and incentivize it. It takes up less room and much easier to manage equipment, this should be a no brainer. Side by side gas pumping and EV charging.


I think Dinjiin only mentioned Page because a Tesla driver would need to go that way as that's where the Supercharger is up that way, while the CCS station is in Kanab. Now, if your wife wants to go SLC to Vegas and past Kingman to PHX then right now CCS users are stuck as there's a charging gap from Vegas to PHX along that route.

But I don't get your need to be able to just stumble across charging stations at every exit. Right now your electric car and your phone both have mapping SW that can find them and plan a route for you, with charging plans all laid out. In 5 or less years that'll probably be a Google Maps feature. Once again, we're in a transition right now, with just early adopters running EVs. In 10 years it'll be very different.
 
2021-02-25 3:06:38 PM  

steve_wmn: Mikey1969: Dinjiin: There are eleven Tesla-compatible and six CCS-compatible public 70+ kW charging locations between SLC and PHX (via Paige).  That's not bad given that half the route is only two-lane highway as opposed to freeway.

steve_wmn: Which way do you go, through Kanab and Flagstaff? There's a dozen or so charging stations for CCS and 8 for Teslas.

I would never go thru Page. Lake Powell is an abomination.

And Kanab and Flag is my preferred route, but too isolated to make the wife comfortable.

Once again, it's the having to search for this shiat. All I said is that the infrastructure has to be there. I have to know they're as easy to find as gas stations. And they should be. This takes FAR less equipment than a gas station. There is no need for huge underground tanks, and no need for pumps that can spray highly flammable liquid allover the ground. We need a program to add these at existing gas stations and incentivize it. It takes up less room and much easier to manage equipment, this should be a no brainer. Side by side gas pumping and EV charging.

I think Dinjiin only mentioned Page because a Tesla driver would need to go that way as that's where the Supercharger is up that way, while the CCS station is in Kanab. Now, if your wife wants to go SLC to Vegas and past Kingman to PHX then right now CCS users are stuck as there's a charging gap from Vegas to PHX along that route.

But I don't get your need to be able to just stumble across charging stations at every exit. Right now your electric car and your phone both have mapping SW that can find them and plan a route for you, with charging plans all laid out. In 5 or less years that'll probably be a Google Maps feature. Once again, we're in a transition right now, with just early adopters running EVs. In 10 years it'll be very different.


Vegas is exactly the route we take.

And all I said is that the transition needs to be more final before people will take long trips... Someone said that they couldn't conceive of a 500 mile trip, and I pointed out that yearly I take a 600 mile trip.
 
2021-02-25 3:22:09 PM  

Mikey1969: Vegas is exactly the route we take.

And all I said is that the transition needs to be more final before people will take long trips... Someone said that they couldn't conceive of a 500 mile trip, and I pointed out that yearly I take a 600 mile trip.


Some people never go on long drives. I remember visiting some old friends in Massachusetts a few years back and one of them was sleeping on a couch because she couldn't handle a 1 hour drive home, having already made that long a drive that day. I had just driven 5 hours myself so I was kind of shocked. One hour is a long drive?
 
2021-02-25 3:36:52 PM  

steve_wmn: Now, if your wife wants to go SLC to Vegas and past Kingman to PHX then right now CCS users are stuck as there's a charging gap from Vegas to PHX along that route.


Electrify America has a 250 kW station planned for Kingman, so that will help.

Mikey1969: I would never go thru Page. Lake Powell is an abomination.  And Kanab and Flag is my preferred route, but too isolated to make the wife comfortable.


I usually take 87A because the cops in Paige suck.  More than enough restrooms for my wife and no problem with cell coverage between I-15 and I-17 with either Verizon or T-Mobile.

If you want an isolated stretch of highway, try driving US-93 between Twin Falls and Vegas.  Multiple areas without any cell reception, no EV charger greater than 50kW, and a 138 mile stretch from Wells to Ely without any services.  My wife has asked that I never take that route again.
 
2021-02-25 4:59:03 PM  

Dinjiin: If you want an isolated stretch of highway, try driving US-93 between Twin Falls and Vegas.  Multiple areas without any cell reception, no EV charger greater than 50kW, and a 138 mile stretch from Wells to Ely without any services.  My wife has asked that I never take that route again.


I drove that waaaaay back in '88, the summer after I graduated HS. I've been on some deserted stretches of road before, but never before have I been on a stretch where you could stop on the center line, get out, take a leak, spend 10 minutes listening to music, and never see another car approaching. 

When I take my preferred route, I go down, pass up Kanab for Jacob Lake (Gateway to the North Rim), and then head on the south side of Vermillion Cliffs, and cross over the river at Lee's Ferry, then down to Flagstaff, bypassing Page, but getting the same general drive. That section between Jacob Lake and the turnoff to Page is pretty deserted, but even that has more traffic than that one in Nevada you mention. That was crazy...
 
2021-02-25 5:12:53 PM  

mrmopar5287: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

Nonsense. What needs to be fixed is:
1. Home charging options; mostly a problem for renters and/or apartments and condos. 240v 50A sockets need to be the standard offered to at least a portion of renters to make EVs widely acceptable.
2. Work charging options. I had a Bolt EV as a loaner car this week (Cruze was in the shop). I found out the hard way that BOTH chargers at my work are broken.
3. Fast charging network needs to expand. City and state governments need to get on this to offer charging at rest stops, locations in cities, and subsidies to offer it at major fuel stops along interstates and fuel stops within cities.


You just described one way to fix the range issue.   It's not like ICE engines can travel 5k miles, it's just possible to gas them up in a few minutes and keep going.
 
2021-02-25 5:25:49 PM  

Mikey1969: When I take my preferred route, I go down, pass up Kanab for Jacob Lake (Gateway to the North Rim)


Fun fact: the area just south of Jacob Lake has the darkest night sky in the entire state.  I brought my Towa 339 (80 mm f/15 refractor) along once when making that trip after dark and I ended up spending way too much time at a clearing I found a mile down SR-67.
 
2021-02-25 5:30:19 PM  

Incog_Neeto: mrmopar5287: Incog_Neeto: To get an electric car in every home the range issue needs to be fixed one way or the other.

Nonsense. What needs to be fixed is:
1. Home charging options; mostly a problem for renters and/or apartments and condos. 240v 50A sockets need to be the standard offered to at least a portion of renters to make EVs widely acceptable.
2. Work charging options. I had a Bolt EV as a loaner car this week (Cruze was in the shop). I found out the hard way that BOTH chargers at my work are broken.
3. Fast charging network needs to expand. City and state governments need to get on this to offer charging at rest stops, locations in cities, and subsidies to offer it at major fuel stops along interstates and fuel stops within cities.

You just described one way to fix the range issue.   It's not like ICE engines can travel 5k miles, it's just possible to gas them up in a few minutes and keep going.


I realized that right after I posted it this morning. Those three things are a start to my ideas, and plenty of other people's ideas.
 
2021-02-25 6:22:36 PM  

Dinjiin: Mikey1969: When I take my preferred route, I go down, pass up Kanab for Jacob Lake (Gateway to the North Rim)

Fun fact: the area just south of Jacob Lake has the darkest night sky in the entire state.  I brought my Towa 339 (80 mm f/15 refractor) along once when making that trip after dark and I ended up spending way too much time at a clearing I found a mile down SR-67.


Yeah, the summer I spent at the North Rim was awesome. Being able to watch fireworks in Williams, 60+ miles away, was cool. And the Perseid meteor shower was great from there. Hadn't seen the Milky Way show up that well since I'd been a kid in Idaho. It's a great area. Just be careful. 10 miles or so south from Jacob Lake, heading to the Canyon, you end up with this meadow following the highway for 20-30 miles, and at night there are hundreds of deer. By the end of the summer, almost everyone on the mountain had hit a deer or been in a car that hit one when driving at night thru that stretch. There's buffalo up there, too, but they usually hide until winter starts knocking on the door. I never got to see them.

I have a telescope that I got years ago, gotta pull it back out and use it, it was a joint birthday gift for me and my daughter. :-)
 
2021-02-25 7:31:09 PM  

steve_wmn: Mikey1969: Vegas is exactly the route we take.

And all I said is that the transition needs to be more final before people will take long trips... Someone said that they couldn't conceive of a 500 mile trip, and I pointed out that yearly I take a 600 mile trip.

Some people never go on long drives. I remember visiting some old friends in Massachusetts a few years back and one of them was sleeping on a couch because she couldn't handle a 1 hour drive home, having already made that long a drive that day. I had just driven 5 hours myself so I was kind of shocked. One hour is a long drive?


Yeah, when I had people freak out that I was gonna drive 12 hours to Phx, they were somewhere in the East. But when you can drive across 3 states in 3 hours, I guess it changes your perspective. Here, it takes 6 hours just to get out of the state if you're driving lengthwise.
 
Displayed 50 of 57 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking





On Twitter



  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.