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(Kotaku)   Paradox puts another stake in the Vampire franchise, decides it's not yet ready for the light of day   (kotaku.com) divider line
    More: Sad, Release, Vampire: The Masquerade, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, Tremere, troubled development of the sequel, Vampire: The Eternal Struggle, Nosferatu, developers Hardsuit Labs  
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768 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 23 Feb 2021 at 11:20 AM (5 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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5 days ago  
The minute they pushed the original writer from the first game out they'd signed the death warrant on this game.  I'm not surprised that they've farked it so hard with meddling that it's now going to require a complete rewrite.  I will say I'm surprised Paradox meddled that badly, they seemed like they were pretty hands off with Battletech.
 
5 days ago  

LowbrowDeluxe: The minute they pushed the original writer from the first game out they'd signed the death warrant on this game.  I'm not surprised that they've farked it so hard with meddling that it's now going to require a complete rewrite.  I will say I'm surprised Paradox meddled that badly, they seemed like they were pretty hands off with Battletech.


Has Paradox been meddling?  I thought Hardsuit were the ones who booted Mitsoda.  Switching companies entirely might be more of a sign of just how thoroughly Hardsuit has shiat the bed.  Not particularly shocking, their track record on games is far from stellar.

But yeah, overall, this game has reached the point where it's got "development hell" written all over it.  I was looking forward to it despite everything, but it might be about time to call it a sunk cost and scrap it.  If they cut a deal with Microsoft and get Obsidian to work on it, they might have a shot, but I don't know that anyone is really in a position to save this thing at this point.
 
5 days ago  

Last Man on Earth: LowbrowDeluxe: The minute they pushed the original writer from the first game out they'd signed the death warrant on this game.  I'm not surprised that they've farked it so hard with meddling that it's now going to require a complete rewrite.  I will say I'm surprised Paradox meddled that badly, they seemed like they were pretty hands off with Battletech.

Has Paradox been meddling?  I thought Hardsuit were the ones who booted Mitsoda.  Switching companies entirely might be more of a sign of just how thoroughly Hardsuit has shiat the bed.  Not particularly shocking, their track record on games is far from stellar.

But yeah, overall, this game has reached the point where it's got "development hell" written all over it.  I was looking forward to it despite everything, but it might be about time to call it a sunk cost and scrap it.  If they cut a deal with Microsoft and get Obsidian to work on it, they might have a shot, but I don't know that anyone is really in a position to save this thing at this point.


yeah, I think you're right actually.  Just the whole incident screamed 'corporate meddling' which I usually associate with the publisher.  Been saying for a while that the sequence of events reads like some corporate suit took a look at the nearly completed game and demanded it be turned into a GTA clone or something to compete with Cyberpunk.
 
5 days ago  

LowbrowDeluxe: yeah, I think you're right actually.  Just the whole incident screamed 'corporate meddling' which I usually associate with the publisher.  Been saying for a while that the sequence of events reads like some corporate suit took a look at the nearly completed game and demanded it be turned into a GTA clone or something to compete with Cyberpunk.


In a sense, I wonder if "competing with Cyberpunk" is part of the problem.  After the absolute disaster that hit CDPR following the release backlash, Paradox might have decided to take a harder look at how this game was coming along to avoid being the next company against the wall.  That's just a guess, though.  Much as I loved the original (bugs and all), there's no chance I'm getting this without a whole lot of reviews first, if it ever comes out at all.
 
5 days ago  

Last Man on Earth: LowbrowDeluxe: yeah, I think you're right actually.  Just the whole incident screamed 'corporate meddling' which I usually associate with the publisher.  Been saying for a while that the sequence of events reads like some corporate suit took a look at the nearly completed game and demanded it be turned into a GTA clone or something to compete with Cyberpunk.

In a sense, I wonder if "competing with Cyberpunk" is part of the problem.  After the absolute disaster that hit CDPR following the release backlash, Paradox might have decided to take a harder look at how this game was coming along to avoid being the next company against the wall.  That's just a guess, though.  Much as I loved the original (bugs and all), there's no chance I'm getting this without a whole lot of reviews first, if it ever comes out at all.


Thats probably the crux of this. Development hell combined with the backlash from cyberpunk has probably got Paradox rattled and didn't wanna follow in its footsteps.
 
5 days ago  
Damn, I had preordered this close to a year ago and hadn't read about any of the drama. I played the hell out of Bloodlines.

Yanking the whole studio seems extreme, even for trying to avoid another Cyberpunk. Hopefully it goes to another studio that can clean up the mess.
 
5 days ago  

Shakes999: Last Man on Earth: LowbrowDeluxe: yeah, I think you're right actually.  Just the whole incident screamed 'corporate meddling' which I usually associate with the publisher.  Been saying for a while that the sequence of events reads like some corporate suit took a look at the nearly completed game and demanded it be turned into a GTA clone or something to compete with Cyberpunk.

In a sense, I wonder if "competing with Cyberpunk" is part of the problem.  After the absolute disaster that hit CDPR following the release backlash, Paradox might have decided to take a harder look at how this game was coming along to avoid being the next company against the wall.  That's just a guess, though.  Much as I loved the original (bugs and all), there's no chance I'm getting this without a whole lot of reviews first, if it ever comes out at all.

Thats probably the crux of this. Development hell combined with the backlash from cyberpunk has probably got Paradox rattled and didn't wanna follow in its footsteps.


I concur. I was guessing they would push it back at least 6 months when I saw all the negative press CDPR was getting, I wasn't expecting a whole year though.
 
5 days ago  
Release game in crap state:
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Delay game to fix problems:
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5 days ago  

LowbrowDeluxe: Last Man on Earth: LowbrowDeluxe: The minute they pushed the original writer from the first game out they'd signed the death warrant on this game.  I'm not surprised that they've farked it so hard with meddling that it's now going to require a complete rewrite.  I will say I'm surprised Paradox meddled that badly, they seemed like they were pretty hands off with Battletech.

Has Paradox been meddling?  I thought Hardsuit were the ones who booted Mitsoda.  Switching companies entirely might be more of a sign of just how thoroughly Hardsuit has shiat the bed.  Not particularly shocking, their track record on games is far from stellar.

But yeah, overall, this game has reached the point where it's got "development hell" written all over it.  I was looking forward to it despite everything, but it might be about time to call it a sunk cost and scrap it.  If they cut a deal with Microsoft and get Obsidian to work on it, they might have a shot, but I don't know that anyone is really in a position to save this thing at this point.

yeah, I think you're right actually.  Just the whole incident screamed 'corporate meddling' which I usually associate with the publisher.  Been saying for a while that the sequence of events reads like some corporate suit took a look at the nearly completed game and demanded it be turned into a GTA clone or something to compete with Cyberpunk.


Paradox is...strange. They can be brilliant one moment, then make you wonder WTF the next. Example: the Jason Momoa Conan film. Paradox owns the Robert E. Howard estate rights, so they produced the film. But then, instead of adapting an REH or other established story, they craft the film around the lore of their MMO, which had already gone Free To Play by that time.
 
5 days ago  

Theaetetus: Release game in crap state:
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Delay game to fix problems:
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5 days ago  

LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: Release game in crap state:
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Delay game to fix problems:
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"Both"? They're the same people.

I'm fine with a game getting delayed so that a better product is released.
 
5 days ago  
Thats a shame :/ Paradox has a lot of good stuff under their wing.
 
5 days ago  

Theaetetus: LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: Release game in crap state:
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Delay game to fix problems:
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"Both"? They're the same people.

I'm fine with a game getting delayed so that a better product is released.


Oh good, so the takeaway is that the important part of this strawman you're fighting in this thread is just that you found a way to feel smugly superior in general.  What a shock.
 
5 days ago  
yeah i'm real sure this all 2077's fault.
If 2077 were not such the hot liquid cat shiat still so fresh in the cereal bowl, they'd have totally released their own hot steamer on time and totally half baked. but it's just "too soon" right now.

So i figure all the dev houses, good or bad, are all in a hold up pattern. Like even if they don't really do more work on their projects, they just can't take a hot dump on everyone too soon after the last one was dropped.
So they gotta at least postpone the shiatfest they got for a bit till we've collectively forgotten about the current crap fest.
 
5 days ago  

PvtStash: yeah i'm real sure this all 2077's fault.
If 2077 were not such the hot liquid cat shiat still so fresh in the cereal bowl, they'd have totally released their own hot steamer on time and totally half baked. but it's just "too soon" right now.

So i figure all the dev houses, good or bad, are all in a hold up pattern. Like even if they don't really do more work on their projects, they just can't take a hot dump on everyone too soon after the last one was dropped.
So they gotta at least postpone the shiatfest they got for a bit till we've collectively forgotten about the current crap fest.


My personal interpretation is that Hardsuit screwed the pooch with some kind of corporate meddling trying to turn the game into something it isn't and it's going to take a year+ to rip it back down and rebuild what had been almost finished.  At least that's my hope.  When they fired the creative director out of the blue heading into the last stretch I've been assuming someone somewhere said something like "make it more of an arena shooter" or "how can we add micro-transactions?"  The alternative is whoever Paradox gets in to clean it up is going to be tasked with 'finishing' whatever half-assed monstrosity was so bad Paradox shiatcanned the studio.
 
5 days ago  

RoyFokker'sGhost: Paradox is...strange. They can be brilliant one moment, then make you wonder WTF the next. Example: the Jason Momoa Conan film. Paradox owns the Robert E. Howard estate rights, so they produced the film. But then, instead of adapting an REH or other established story, they craft the film around the lore of their MMO, which had already gone Free To Play by that time.


You are a little discombobulated.

Funcom has exclusive video game rights to Conan, but nothing else.  It doesn't own the intellectual property, had absolutely nothing to do with the movie, and certainly didn't make a film around the MMO.  Paradox Interactive, the video game company, was spun off of the old Paradox Entertainment which owns the rights to Conan but they haven't bene the same company for a while now.  As far as I know Paradox Interactive never made an MMO.
 
5 days ago  

LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: Release game in crap state:
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Delay game to fix problems:
[media1.giphy.com image 480x270] [View Full Size image _x_]

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 221x228]

"Both"? They're the same people.

I'm fine with a game getting delayed so that a better product is released.

Oh good, so the takeaway is that the important part of this strawman you're fighting in this thread is just that you found a way to feel smugly superior in general.  What a shock.


Strawman? That literally is what happened with Cyberpunk. Hordes screaming each time they delayed the game to polish it, and then the same hordes screaming when they released it with bugs.

And it's not in general: I just feel smugly superior to the above-mentioned hypocrites, and to you, for being in such a rush to call things strawmen and post xkcd cartoons without any understanding of what they mean.
 
5 days ago  
Imperator was so bad at release, they revamped the game almost completely. First time I was mad at them.

So I'm glad they are more careful now.
 
5 days ago  
When I read the writer and some of the vets from Bloodlines were canned, yeah, I was glad I did not fall into a pre-order temptation, which is rare. I might preorder Evil Genius 2 ... an hour before it gets released.

Also, after reading the new VtM fluff, I was miffed at the limitation of clan selection in the upcoming Bloodlines 2. Shiat got interesting since the 2000s ...

The Lasombra and Assamite are now Camarilla enforcers, replacing the Gangrel, Brujah and Tremere (the latter decimated by government agents and vampire hunters). The Lasombra's old faction, the Sabbat, broke apart after many of its members decided to go on a global safari to cannibalize ancient vampires ... and nobody has returned from the hunting trip yet (hinted to be successful for those who survived and they will be future enemies down the road). After some bloody comeuppance, the Giovanni are now just a cog in the old clan of necromancer vampires they usurped, and those bloodlines are building a new mystic faction. The Ministry (rebranded Followers of Set, most of whom dropped the Egyptian cult act) would be great to play in a dialogue-wheel game because they live off temptation and corruption of others as much as blood, and they are now odd couple allies of "good guy" vampire clans Brujah and Gangrel, who rebelled against the Cammies after Bloodlines.
 
5 days ago  

Theaetetus: LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: Release game in crap state:
[media1.giphy.com image 480x270] [View Full Size image _x_]

Delay game to fix problems:
[media1.giphy.com image 480x270] [View Full Size image _x_]

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 221x228]

"Both"? They're the same people.

I'm fine with a game getting delayed so that a better product is released.

Oh good, so the takeaway is that the important part of this strawman you're fighting in this thread is just that you found a way to feel smugly superior in general.  What a shock.

Strawman? That literally is what happened with Cyberpunk. Hordes screaming each time they delayed the game to polish it, and then the same hordes screaming when they released it with bugs.

And it's not in general: I just feel smugly superior to the above-mentioned hypocrites, and to you, for being in such a rush to call things strawmen and post xkcd cartoons without any understanding of what they mean.


So your position is that you were posting about a generic faceless group of fans of an unrelated game, mentioned only in passing in the comments and only for reasons unrelated to your hypothetical point.  This point you deftly established your oh-so-smug superiority on by establishing both sides of the argument and attributing the hypothetical opponent only the weakest and flimsiest of reason.  If only there was a word for that.  If only.

Also you can suck the corn off my taint.  Your feelings of superiority are as meaningful to me as whatever nutrition you get from it.
 
5 days ago  

Practical_Draconian: When I read the writer and some of the vets from Bloodlines were canned, yeah, I was glad I did not fall into a pre-order temptation, which is rare. I might preorder Evil Genius 2 ... an hour before it gets released.


I went ahead and took the plunge on Evil Genius 2.  All the footage so far looks like they successfully realized 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' and just made a prettier sequel.
 
5 days ago  

LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: Release game in crap state:
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Delay game to fix problems:
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[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 221x228]

"Both"? They're the same people.

I'm fine with a game getting delayed so that a better product is released.

Oh good, so the takeaway is that the important part of this strawman you're fighting in this thread is just that you found a way to feel smugly superior in general.  What a shock.

Strawman? That literally is what happened with Cyberpunk. Hordes screaming each time they delayed the game to polish it, and then the same hordes screaming when they released it with bugs.

And it's not in general: I just feel smugly superior to the above-mentioned hypocrites, and to you, for being in such a rush to call things strawmen and post xkcd cartoons without any understanding of what they mean.

So your position is that you were posting about a generic faceless group of fans of an unrelated game, mentioned only in passing in the comments and only for reasons unrelated to your hypothetical point.


Nah, it's apparently you specifically. In that thread, you're calling anyone who says that delays are okay a "corporate cocksucker": "'hurrrr go play something else' is just working the head with your lips while tonguing the balls." Maybe that's why you're acting so defensive now.
 
5 days ago  

Theaetetus: LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: Release game in crap state:
[media1.giphy.com image 480x270] [View Full Size image _x_]

Delay game to fix problems:
[media1.giphy.com image 480x270] [View Full Size image _x_]

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 221x228]

"Both"? They're the same people.

I'm fine with a game getting delayed so that a better product is released.

Oh good, so the takeaway is that the important part of this strawman you're fighting in this thread is just that you found a way to feel smugly superior in general.  What a shock.

Strawman? That literally is what happened with Cyberpunk. Hordes screaming each time they delayed the game to polish it, and then the same hordes screaming when they released it with bugs.

And it's not in general: I just feel smugly superior to the above-mentioned hypocrites, and to you, for being in such a rush to call things strawmen and post xkcd cartoons without any understanding of what they mean.

So your position is that you were posting about a generic faceless group of fans of an unrelated game, mentioned only in passing in the comments and only for reasons unrelated to your hypothetical point.

Nah, it's apparently you specifically. In that thread, you're calling anyone who says that delays are okay a "corporate cocksucker": "'hurrrr go play something else' is just working the head with your lips while tonguing the balls." Maybe that's why you're acting so defensive now.


And I stand by it, especially talking to a self professed sommelier of dick-tasting.  You want to roll over and lift your legs because they couldn't get their shiat together after a seven year development cycle, feel free.  I, personally, think both being disgusted by the delays, and by the fark ups, is perfectly reasonable.  None of that, at all, has anything to do with this thread however.  This whole tangent is just you sucking off a straw cock out of desperation.  If you're that hard up try a GOP convention.
 
5 days ago  

LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: Release game in crap state:
[media1.giphy.com image 480x270] [View Full Size image _x_]

Delay game to fix problems:
[media1.giphy.com image 480x270] [View Full Size image _x_]

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 221x228]

"Both"? They're the same people.

I'm fine with a game getting delayed so that a better product is released.

Oh good, so the takeaway is that the important part of this strawman you're fighting in this thread is just that you found a way to feel smugly superior in general.  What a shock.

Strawman? That literally is what happened with Cyberpunk. Hordes screaming each time they delayed the game to polish it, and then the same hordes screaming when they released it with bugs.

And it's not in general: I just feel smugly superior to the above-mentioned hypocrites, and to you, for being in such a rush to call things strawmen and post xkcd cartoons without any understanding of what they mean.

So your position is that you were posting about a generic faceless group of fans of an unrelated game, mentioned only in passing in the comments and only for reasons unrelated to your hypothetical point.

Nah, it's apparently you specifically. In that thread, you're calling anyone who says that delays are okay a "corporate cocksucker": "'hurrrr go play something else' is just working the head with your lips while tonguing the balls." Maybe that's why you're acting so defensive now.

And I stand by it, especially talking to a self professed sommelier of dick-tasting.  You want to roll over and lift your legs because they couldn't get their shiat together after a seven year development cycle, feel free.  I, personally, think both being disgusted by the delays, and by the fark ups, is perfectly reasonable.  None of that, at all, has anything to do with this thread however.  This whole tangent is just you sucking off a straw cock out of desperation.  If you're that hard up tr ...


See, right back to the hypocrisy and defensiveness. Also, I don't think 'self-professed' means what you think it means, just like you clearly don't know what a strawman is.
 
5 days ago  

Theaetetus: See, right back to the hypocrisy and defensiveness. Also, I don't think 'self-professed' means what you think it means, just like you clearly don't know what a strawman is.


And I don't think you know what either 'defensive' or 'hypocrisy' means.  Unfortunately for you, I'm perfectly aware of what 'self-professed' means in the context of having you farkied as 'self-professed sommelier of dick-tasting', and I stand by it as well.  Clearly the onus of providing citation and thread links for quotes doesn't lie on the person making them, and even if you did provide the link you desperately dug up for this thread last time I called you on it you accepted the farkie in an attempt to turn it around on me as a way to continue to act smugly superior.  So you own it.  And no.  I ain't going to bother to find that thread, either.  Y'all can stop doing that if you want me to stop calling you on it.
 
5 days ago  
Another thread with sensible adults calmly discussing video games.
 
5 days ago  

LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: Release game in crap state:
[media1.giphy.com image 480x270] [View Full Size image _x_]

Delay game to fix problems:
[media1.giphy.com image 480x270] [View Full Size image _x_]

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 221x228]

"Both"? They're the same people.

I'm fine with a game getting delayed so that a better product is released.

Oh good, so the takeaway is that the important part of this strawman you're fighting in this thread is just that you found a way to feel smugly superior in general.  What a shock.


Remember, the important thing is you  found a way to feel superior to him.
 
5 days ago  

Tyrone Slothrop: LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: Release game in crap state:
[media1.giphy.com image 480x270] [View Full Size image _x_]

Delay game to fix problems:
[media1.giphy.com image 480x270] [View Full Size image _x_]

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 221x228]

"Both"? They're the same people.

I'm fine with a game getting delayed so that a better product is released.

Oh good, so the takeaway is that the important part of this strawman you're fighting in this thread is just that you found a way to feel smugly superior in general.  What a shock.

Remember, the important thing is you  found a way to feel superior to him.


All while being the embodiment of what Theaetetus was mocking.  Quite an accomplishment.
 
5 days ago  
Okay, while if I were to name a studio best suited to making a sequel to Bloodlines it would definitely be Paradox...

... why make a sequel to Bloodlines at all?

Just, like, make a completely new game with the Vampire: the Masquerade general setting and system so there's no obligation to reference the previous work and any references you make are easter eggs and not potentially annoying the fark out of your player with continuity issues.

Like, "Vampyr" was pretty much the best World of Darkness video game since Bloodlines, so it's not like you even need the branding as such.  Seriously, just make a new game about classically pretentious vampires versus hipster-pretentious Vampires and slap the V:TM brand on it with a couple of faction names to get our attention and I guarantee you that not one person who was a fan of the old world of darkness will even think of calling bullshiat as potentially an option.

Essentially what I'm saying here is that some of the development hell this project is in appears to be the company willfully making this shiat harder than it needs to be.  Making your decade-later game made with a different team a direct sequel is akin to assuming that any "Dungeons and Dragons" game must feature the canonical further adventures of Drizzt do'Urden-- farking why would you kneecap yourself by picking up baggage that you don't need?

// Yes, that bit at the beginning was both a genuine statement that Paradox is the right studio for this in the positive sense and a dig at both companies for how the original bloodlines was literally so broken that it could not be completed, period, with most builds, while Paradox's games are buggy messes that often similarly hit a no-win state.  Thank you for noticing.
 
5 days ago  

Jim_Callahan: Just, like, make a completely new game with the Vampire: the Masquerade general setting and system so there's no obligation to reference the previous work and any references you make are easter eggs and not potentially annoying the fark out of your player with continuity issues.


I thought that's what this one essentially was. Whole new city and cast and everything.
 
5 days ago  
I guess Paradox couldn't figure out how to shove an unceasing procession of monetized patches into it.
 
5 days ago  
Troika Games released only three titles. And all of them had the same things in common: buggy as hell, extremely well written storylines and arcs, and were and are much beloved by fans even today.

It's going to be tough to catch that kind of lightning in a bottle again. I'll pick up VtMB2 when it comes out but I have no expectations for it.
 
5 days ago  
lparchive.orgView Full Size
 
5 days ago  

LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus: See, right back to the hypocrisy and defensiveness. Also, I don't think 'self-professed' means what you think it means, just like you clearly don't know what a strawman is.

And I don't think you know what either 'defensive' or 'hypocrisy' means.  Unfortunately for you, I'm perfectly aware of what 'self-professed' means in the context of having you farkied as 'self-professed sommelier of dick-tasting', and I stand by it as well.  Clearly the onus of providing citation and thread links for quotes doesn't lie on the person making them, and even if you did provide the link you desperately dug up for this thread last time I called you on it you accepted the farkie in an attempt to turn it around on me as a way to continue to act smugly superior.  So you own it.  And no.  I ain't going to bother to find that thread, either.  Y'all can stop doing that if you want me to stop calling you on it.


Lowbrow, between your hostility, homophobia, and general edge lord character of your posts, you're really adding nothing to the discussion. Goodbye.
 
5 days ago  

Jim_Callahan: Okay, while if I were to name a studio best suited to making a sequel to Bloodlines it would definitely be Paradox...

... why make a sequel to Bloodlines at all?

Just, like, make a completely new game with the Vampire: the Masquerade general setting and system so there's no obligation to reference the previous work and any references you make are easter eggs and not potentially annoying the fark out of your player with continuity issues.

Like, "Vampyr" was pretty much the best World of Darkness video game since Bloodlines, so it's not like you even need the branding as such.  Seriously, just make a new game about classically pretentious vampires versus hipster-pretentious Vampires and slap the V:TM brand on it with a couple of faction names to get our attention and I guarantee you that not one person who was a fan of the old world of darkness will even think of calling bullshiat as potentially an option.

Essentially what I'm saying here is that some of the development hell this project is in appears to be the company willfully making this shiat harder than it needs to be.  Making your decade-later game made with a different team a direct sequel is akin to assuming that any "Dungeons and Dragons" game must feature the canonical further adventures of Drizzt do'Urden-- farking why would you kneecap yourself by picking up baggage that you don't need?

// Yes, that bit at the beginning was both a genuine statement that Paradox is the right studio for this in the positive sense and a dig at both companies for how the original bloodlines was literally so broken that it could not be completed, period, with most builds, while Paradox's games are buggy messes that often similarly hit a no-win state.  Thank you for noticing.


I agree with you, but in this case, think of calling it "Bloodlines 2" as an elevator pitch for the audience.  There have been a few different VtM games with very different genres, so when people see there's a new one, maybe people will choose to look into it a bit and see that it's a Deus Ex-style 3D action RPG set in the modern day where you pick your clan, upgrade your skills as you see fit, interact with people and other vampires, and deal with problems in a variety of ways.  Alternately, the devs can just say "it's Bloodlines 2" and convey the same information much faster without the need for the audience to read through a longer description.  It also has the advantage of saying "we know everybody likes this game in particular, so you can trust us to follow that spirit with this new one."
 
5 days ago  

Jim_Callahan: Just, like, make a completely new game with the Vampire: the Masquerade general setting and system so there's no obligation to reference the previous work and any references you make are easter eggs and not potentially annoying the fark out of your player with continuity issues.


Larian seems to be doing a nice job with Baldur's Gate. If they abandoned the FPS style of the first, they could do an isometric RPG using that engine, but with V:tM rules pretty easily. That might work better for a lot of the abilities, honestly.
 
5 days ago  
It's rare that a Fark comments not only meet but exceed my expectations.

This is a truely great amount of butthurt over a game that is all about roleplaying being a victim.
 
5 days ago  

Theaetetus: Jim_Callahan: Just, like, make a completely new game with the Vampire: the Masquerade general setting and system so there's no obligation to reference the previous work and any references you make are easter eggs and not potentially annoying the fark out of your player with continuity issues.

Larian seems to be doing a nice job with Baldur's Gate. If they abandoned the FPS style of the first, they could do an isometric RPG using that engine, but with V:tM rules pretty easily. That might work better for a lot of the abilities, honestly.


There was a isometric-ish V:tM game a while back, can't remember what it was called. It wasn't bad, but I hated that you couldn't pause the action and issue commands like you can in the Baldur's Gate series. It made some battles very frustrating.
 
5 days ago  

Theaetetus: Larian seems to be doing a nice job with Baldur's Gate. If they abandoned the FPS style of the first, they could do an isometric RPG using that engine, but with V:tM rules pretty easily. That might work better for a lot of the abilities, honestly.


I'd probably vote against trying to interpret the Tabletop rules directly, honestly.  WoD was a lot of things, but "balanced" is a word that clearly murdered the writers' parents in an alley after a night at the movies and set them on a lifelong path of bat-based vengeance, because even the vaguest pretense of balance is blasted out of the universe with a series of nuclear explosions before you even finish skimming the sample character sheet.

Bloodlines is the go-to example for doing it right pretty much because they straight up tossed all of the V:TM ability mechanics out the window and just wrote their own appropriate-seeming rules for what however many dots in whichever ability actually did.

Jesus Christ, can you imagine a game that let players have a straight-faced interpretation of the soak rules or the celerity power?  Or rage turns for werewolf enemies?  Or rage triggers for werewolf enemies?

"Well, that was a fun hundred hours of play invested into levelling my social character with maxed combat skills, too bad I vaguely hinted with max innuendo at a mortal using some sort of blood-related pun within three blocks of a human-mode werewolf and then instantly vaporized into a cloud of bloody scraps before he'd even finished using his five free turns of aggravated damage with no miss chance".

// Or you're a celerity bruja and it's the opposite, the national guard is called in with an army of tanks and one round later from their perspective they're all dead and you haven't been challenged at all.

// Or a mage of literally any level appears literally anywhere in any part of the game and the game is instantly over because he's the main character and also the GM now.
 
5 days ago  

Jim_Callahan: // Or a mage of literally any level appears literally anywhere in any part of the game and the game is instantly over because he's the main character and also the GM now.


Fark user imageView Full Size

Good point. Can't really include Mage: the Overpowerening and still have a game.
 
5 days ago  
Anyone familiar with the material's overall setting should have realized that putting it in the hands of a company called Paradox was just asking for trouble.

I know, I know, it's Vampire, not Mage.
 
5 days ago  

Jim_Callahan: Jesus Christ, can you imagine a game that let players have a straight-faced interpretation of the soak rules or the celerity power?  Or rage turns for werewolf enemies?  Or rage triggers for werewolf enemies?

"Well, that was a fun hundred hours of play invested into levelling my social character with maxed combat skills, too bad I vaguely hinted with max innuendo at a mortal using some sort of blood-related pun within three blocks of a human-mode werewolf and then instantly vaporized into a cloud of bloody scraps before he'd even finished using his five free turns of aggravated damage with no miss chance".


Eh. At least as far as Werewolf went, they were meant to be terrifying combat foes, nigh-unstoppable Terminators it would take a well-prepped Sabbat pack to have a chance against. If your vampire was forced to go toe-to-toe with even a weak werewolf in Crinos, you done farked up (or your Storyteller just felt like a TPK). On the other hand, werewolves had crappy social abilities, especially the ones with more Rage than Willpower, those guys can't actually get along in a society, even theirs. The way to deal with them was to have pawns etc be the ones interacting/causing them grief. That, and make sure the local lupes, once they made you, were well aware you either had an environmental dead-man's switch or that whoever replaced you would be worse.

Mages, well, yeah, they're a problem. But there's no good way to incorporate Mage rules into a video game without actually teaching the player how to alter the game's source code so the universe sculpts itself into their vision.
 
5 days ago  
GDISM, I'd hoped to play this before I died.
 
5 days ago  

chozo13: Theaetetus: Jim_Callahan: Just, like, make a completely new game with the Vampire: the Masquerade general setting and system so there's no obligation to reference the previous work and any references you make are easter eggs and not potentially annoying the fark out of your player with continuity issues.

Larian seems to be doing a nice job with Baldur's Gate. If they abandoned the FPS style of the first, they could do an isometric RPG using that engine, but with V:tM rules pretty easily. That might work better for a lot of the abilities, honestly.

There was a isometric-ish V:tM game a while back, can't remember what it was called. It wasn't bad, but I hated that you couldn't pause the action and issue commands like you can in the Baldur's Gate series. It made some battles very frustrating.


vtm redemption
 
4 days ago  

Beta Tested: RoyFokker'sGhost: Paradox is...strange. They can be brilliant one moment, then make you wonder WTF the next. Example: the Jason Momoa Conan film. Paradox owns the Robert E. Howard estate rights, so they produced the film. But then, instead of adapting an REH or other established story, they craft the film around the lore of their MMO, which had already gone Free To Play by that time.

You are a little discombobulated.

Funcom has exclusive video game rights to Conan, but nothing else.  It doesn't own the intellectual property, had absolutely nothing to do with the movie, and certainly didn't make a film around the MMO.  Paradox Interactive, the video game company, was spun off of the old Paradox Entertainment which owns the rights to Conan but they haven't bene the same company for a while now.  As far as I know Paradox Interactive never made an MMO.


FunCom created Age of Conan, but it was published by Paradox. FunCom licenses the Conan rights from Paradox.

Check out the Momoa Conan film; he's actually pretty spot on to REH's vision. But the magic, the look of the Picts, the emphasis on Acheron, even the set design of Conan's home, it's all drawn right from Age of CoA MMO. I mean, Rose McGowan's character summons undead using the same animation as the Necromancer class.
 
4 days ago  

Theaetetus: LowbrowDeluxe:


LowbrowDeluxe: Theaetetus:


The only difference is the pig likes it.
 
4 days ago  

RoyFokker'sGhost: FunCom created Age of Conan, but it was published by Paradox. FunCom licenses the Conan rights from Paradox.

Check out the Momoa Conan film; he's actually pretty spot on to REH's vision. But the magic, the look of the Picts, the emphasis on Acheron, even the set design of Conan's home, it's all drawn right from Age of CoA MMO. I mean, Rose McGowan's character summons undead using the same animation as the Necromancer class.


No.  Age of Conan was self-published in partnership with Eidos Interactive for physical distribution, and the license was obtained from Paradox Entertainment, not Paradox Interactive (which had nothing to do with either).

It may be that the people who made the movie ripped off the MMO (I have no idea), but Funcom and the developers of AoC were not involved in the movie in any way.
 
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