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(NJ.com)   NJ Transit to end fines for light rail riders who "forget" to validate their tickets before boarding. This should work out well   (nj.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Fare, Light rail, Commuter rail, Rapid transit, Tickets, Public transport, Newark Light Rail, Validation  
•       •       •

836 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2021 at 6:54 PM (6 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



51 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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6 days ago  
::shrug::

I've given my validated light rail ticket to riders without tickets when I leave the train. Some people on that train are hurting financially, and it's their only way to work. It's not killing anyone.
 
6 days ago  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
6 days ago  

Kubo: ::shrug::

I've given my validated light rail ticket to riders without tickets when I leave the train. Some people on that train are hurting financially, and it's their only way to work. It's not killing anyone.


It's what Jesus would have wanted.  God rest his soul.
 
6 days ago  

Kubo: ::shrug::

I've given my validated light rail ticket to riders without tickets when I leave the train. Some people on that train are hurting financially, and it's their only way to work. It's not killing anyone.


Nope. Not killing anyone.

I mean, it does have the impact of leading towards higher fares, but that isn't the same as murder.
 
6 days ago  

Kubo: ::shrug::

I've given my validated light rail ticket to riders without tickets when I leave the train. Some people on that train are hurting financially, and it's their only way to work. It's not killing anyone.


Especially since ridership fees are a fairly insignificant source of revenue for most transit systems at this point it's mostly a regressive tax and an excuse for police to harass minorities. We need to just push public funding the last ~20% and recover the hassle, inconvenience, and noted issues with fair collection and as a bonus we'll have fewer pention liabilities to pay going forward.
 
6 days ago  

gar1013: Kubo: ::shrug::

I've given my validated light rail ticket to riders without tickets when I leave the train. Some people on that train are hurting financially, and it's their only way to work. It's not killing anyone.

Nope. Not killing anyone.

I mean, it does have the impact of leading towards higher fares, but that isn't the same as murder.


Next you'll tell me that lost and damaged inventory is factored into the price of food!
 
6 days ago  
"NJ Transit riders who use the agencies three light rail lines..."

Journalism is dead.
 
6 days ago  
Can't work out from the article. Are the purchased tickets valid for longer than one fare? If not, then not stamping/validating doesn't matter and the law change makes sense. If tickets last longer, say ten fares with no end date and the user repeatedly 'forgets' to stamp/validate... well they probably deserve a fine. That said, those who are hurting financially should get a bit of help, a pass your payment. Those who can pay should pay.
 
6 days ago  
Oh, NJ transit is even farther from fares mattering, only Approximately 14-percent of the revenue in the FY 2021 operating budget comes from passenger revenue link
 
6 days ago  
This isn't a kind gesture.  In all likelihood they were spending more in terms of attempted enforcement of collection of the fines than they were gaining in revenue.  When you are digging a hole, it is best to stop digging but rarely do we see a agency, much less one located in New Jersey adopt such an enlightened policy.
 
6 days ago  

LiberalConservative: Can't work out from the article. Are the purchased tickets valid for longer than one fare? If not, then not stamping/validating doesn't matter and the law change makes sense. If tickets last longer, say ten fares with no end date and the user repeatedly 'forgets' to stamp/validate... well they probably deserve a fine. That said, those who are hurting financially should get a bit of help, a pass your payment. Those who can pay should pay.


The utility is largely theoretical for most riders, but as it stands currently you could buy multiple paper one-ride tickets ahead of time, which you'd need to timestamp validate before riding.  More than anything else this is used by social service agencies to hand out bus rides instead of cash.  I think when the HBLR started, there weren't vending machines at every station either, so some riders would buy 5 or 10 tickets at a bodega.

It'd be nice if transit systems could agree on a standard, that much is for sure.  I thought Portland's TriMet Hop system seems like the sanest one around for a visitor.  Just tap an NFC credit card/smartphone.  Tap the same card in the same 2.5 hours, no extra charge. If you've spent enough to qualify for a day/week/month pass, your spend caps out there and you've effectively bought that pass. Nice.
 
6 days ago  
TheSubjunctive:

Just make it free. HBLR only recovers like 25% of expenses with fare revenue. Stop maintaining the ticket machines, stop paying guys to write citations.

The river line is worse, I wouldn't be surprised if it actually cost more to collect and enforce fares. River line recovers less than 10% of expenses with fares.*

*All salty opinions formed 5 years ago when I moved out of NJ. I assume nothing has changed. Because I am the center of the universe.
 
6 days ago  
Find someone with short term memory loss.
Befriend said person
Take on light rail
Sue light rail for discriminating against someone who couldn't remember if they validated their ticket
 
6 days ago  
Sources say that, among other improvements, the ticket gates will also be removed to allow freer pedestrian access...
 
6 days ago  
CSB: my first visit to New York, many years ago, I boarded New Jersey Transit at a neighborhood platform that didn't have any ticket options. I didn't know what to do, and was embarrassed and scared as a teen. I thought of hiding or getting off, but eventually asked the conductor. Instead of hassling or throwing me off the train as I exxpected, from all the hard-ass stories I heard of the city, he said "welcome to New York" and gave me a ticket. I then paid for it when I got to the station.

Septa made up for that kindness some years later, with the rudest person I've ever experienced in transit.
 
6 days ago  

gar1013: Kubo: ::shrug::

I've given my validated light rail ticket to riders without tickets when I leave the train. Some people on that train are hurting financially, and it's their only way to work. It's not killing anyone.

Nope. Not killing anyone.

I mean, it does have the impact of leading towards higher fares, but that isn't the same as murder.


It could also lead to higher subsidies from the government.
 
6 days ago  

StatelyGreekAutomaton: gar1013: Kubo: ::shrug::

I've given my validated light rail ticket to riders without tickets when I leave the train. Some people on that train are hurting financially, and it's their only way to work. It's not killing anyone.

Nope. Not killing anyone.

I mean, it does have the impact of leading towards higher fares, but that isn't the same as murder.

It could also lead to higher subsidies from the government.


But then rich people might pay for things that don't personally benefit them!
 
6 days ago  
Damn those lucky duckies!
 
6 days ago  
Different city, but: In Seattle, I needed to get off at the Play Station. Spent the whole time pulling up saying "Excuse me, this is my stop" only to see a few people cringe at the possibility that there might be some sort of minor conflict, but refused to move.

Finally got to the door in time to get off at Pioneer Square, after literally knocking people aside (and being called rude for trying to get off the bus.) Had to run my ass off on arthritic feet to make my therapist's appointment. Decided that I'd just bicycle in from Shoreline for the next appointment.

What I'm saying is, the cost is far from the biggest problem with public transportation. You gotta remember that 1/3 of everyone is a total piece of shiat and you just might be stuck dealing with them.... or, you know, avoid public transportation entirely.

Assholes.
 
6 days ago  

Abox: Kubo: ::shrug::

I've given my validated light rail ticket to riders without tickets when I leave the train. Some people on that train are hurting financially, and it's their only way to work. It's not killing anyone.

It's what Jesus would have wanted.  God rest his soul.


Religoius reference OMG TRIGGERED!!!

...hey, wait. I'm not a certain anti-theist Farker.
 
6 days ago  

cameroncrazy1984: StatelyGreekAutomaton: gar1013: Kubo: ::shrug::

I've given my validated light rail ticket to riders without tickets when I leave the train. Some people on that train are hurting financially, and it's their only way to work. It's not killing anyone.

Nope. Not killing anyone.

I mean, it does have the impact of leading towards higher fares, but that isn't the same as murder.

It could also lead to higher subsidies from the government.

But then rich people might pay for things that don't personally benefit them!


Hm. That sounds horrific. Maybe we could create some sort of rent-to-own system for dispersing bootstraps, with which the poors could pull themselves up to work instead? With a very reasonable interest rate, so that we mildly profit, of course.
 
6 days ago  

0z79: Abox: Kubo: ::shrug::

I've given my validated light rail ticket to riders without tickets when I leave the train. Some people on that train are hurting financially, and it's their only way to work. It's not killing anyone.

It's what Jesus would have wanted.  God rest his soul.

Religoius reference OMG TRIGGERED!!!

...hey, wait. I'm not a certain anti-theist Farker.


Wait, not all of us are anti-theist?
 
6 days ago  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
6 days ago  

cameroncrazy1984: StatelyGreekAutomaton: gar1013: Kubo: ::shrug::

I've given my validated light rail ticket to riders without tickets when I leave the train. Some people on that train are hurting financially, and it's their only way to work. It's not killing anyone.

Nope. Not killing anyone.

I mean, it does have the impact of leading towards higher fares, but that isn't the same as murder.

It could also lead to higher subsidies from the government.

But then rich people might pay for things that don't personally benefit them!


Will Club Class include an omelet bar and a big urn of fresh Blue Mountain coffee?
 
6 days ago  

Fancy_Bear: cameroncrazy1984: StatelyGreekAutomaton: gar1013: Kubo: ::shrug::

I've given my validated light rail ticket to riders without tickets when I leave the train. Some people on that train are hurting financially, and it's their only way to work. It's not killing anyone.

Nope. Not killing anyone.

I mean, it does have the impact of leading towards higher fares, but that isn't the same as murder.

It could also lead to higher subsidies from the government.

But then rich people might pay for things that don't personally benefit them!

Will Club Class include an omelet bar and a big urn of fresh Blue Mountain coffee?


...on NJ Transit? You're lucky the car doesn't smell like year-old pee.
 
6 days ago  

cameroncrazy1984: 0z79: Abox: Kubo: ::shrug::

I've given my validated light rail ticket to riders without tickets when I leave the train. Some people on that train are hurting financially, and it's their only way to work. It's not killing anyone.

It's what Jesus would have wanted.  God rest his soul.

Religoius reference OMG TRIGGERED!!!

...hey, wait. I'm not a certain anti-theist Farker.

Wait, not all of us are anti-theist?


No offense if you are? But some of y'all are REAL dickheads about it. Downright mean-spirited. As bad as Televangelist; "believe what I believe or you are lesser" is the only example of "both sides"-style argument that I actually get behind.

I have no moral right to say "you're going to Hell". You have no right (or scientific backing) to say "this universe is absolutely not sentient", IMHO.
 
6 days ago  
About the actual thread: A little courtesy goes a long way. Keep clear of the exits and always remember: It is NOT all about you. It's about every other rider and then yourself. Putting others before yourself used to be known as "common courtesy."
 
6 days ago  

0z79: You have no right (or scientific backing) to say "this universe is absolutely not sentient", IMHO.


lol If you believe this you have no understanding of science. But then that's your opinion and you're entitled to that, just so long as you don't actually believe it's backed up by facts.
 
6 days ago  

cameroncrazy1984: 0z79: You have no right (or scientific backing) to say "this universe is absolutely not sentient", IMHO.

lol If you believe this you have no understanding of science. But then that's your opinion and you're entitled to that, just so long as you don't actually believe it's backed up by facts.


Since I dwell within this Universe, I choose not to take the chance of mocking it. :P
 
6 days ago  
Which Farker thought the idea of "common courtesy" was funny, BTW?
 
6 days ago  

0z79: cameroncrazy1984: 0z79: You have no right (or scientific backing) to say "this universe is absolutely not sentient", IMHO.

lol If you believe this you have no understanding of science. But then that's your opinion and you're entitled to that, just so long as you don't actually believe it's backed up by facts.

Since I dwell within this Universe, I choose not to take the chance of mocking it. :P


You should either do more or less drugs and I'm not sure which.
 
6 days ago  

cameroncrazy1984: 0z79: cameroncrazy1984: 0z79: You have no right (or scientific backing) to say "this universe is absolutely not sentient", IMHO.

lol If you believe this you have no understanding of science. But then that's your opinion and you're entitled to that, just so long as you don't actually believe it's backed up by facts.

Since I dwell within this Universe, I choose not to take the chance of mocking it. :P

You should either do more or less drugs and I'm not sure which.


"Beep-Bop"? Sorry, I don't speak robot.

/is taking the piss
 
6 days ago  

0z79: cameroncrazy1984: 0z79: cameroncrazy1984: 0z79: You have no right (or scientific backing) to say "this universe is absolutely not sentient", IMHO.

lol If you believe this you have no understanding of science. But then that's your opinion and you're entitled to that, just so long as you don't actually believe it's backed up by facts.

Since I dwell within this Universe, I choose not to take the chance of mocking it. :P

You should either do more or less drugs and I'm not sure which.

"Beep-Bop"? Sorry, I don't speak robot.

/is taking the piss


So more drugs it is
 
6 days ago  

fustanella: CSB: my first visit to New York, many years ago, I boarded New Jersey Transit at a neighborhood platform that didn't have any ticket options. I didn't know what to do, and was embarrassed and scared as a teen. I thought of hiding or getting off, but eventually asked the conductor. Instead of hassling or throwing me off the train as I exxpected, from all the hard-ass stories I heard of the city, he said "welcome to New York" and gave me a ticket. I then paid for it when I got to the station.

Septa made up for that kindness some years later, with the rudest person I've ever experienced in transit.


Philadelphia is that city that not only hates back but hates you first. I had a conducter go off on an elderly couple on the Airport Line, where you would expect the least educated about your system, for asking for the senior fare and not immediately showing proof of age.
 
6 days ago  

robodog: Oh, NJ transit is even farther from fares mattering, only Approximately 14-percent of the revenue in the FY 2021 operating budget comes from passenger revenue link


That's disturbing, especially the $1.4 bil that was transferred from our Social Security funds.
 
6 days ago  

margarito bandito: fustanella: CSB: my first visit to New York, many years ago, I boarded New Jersey Transit at a neighborhood platform that didn't have any ticket options. I didn't know what to do, and was embarrassed and scared as a teen. I thought of hiding or getting off, but eventually asked the conductor. Instead of hassling or throwing me off the train as I exxpected, from all the hard-ass stories I heard of the city, he said "welcome to New York" and gave me a ticket. I then paid for it when I got to the station.

Septa made up for that kindness some years later, with the rudest person I've ever experienced in transit.

Philadelphia is that city that not only hates back but hates you first. I had a conducter go off on an elderly couple on the Airport Line, where you would expect the least educated about your system, for asking for the senior fare and not immediately showing proof of age.


My Philly experience is limited.  I've been a tourist a few times, went to Pats and Geno's, and I've been through the airport about two dozen times.  I have found the workers at Philly airport are the rudest sacks of crap I have encountered in my million+ miles traveled.  They act like they are doing you a favor when they sneer at you and deign to sell you a soft drink.

One lady got mad because I asked her to put my change on the counter.  She asked, "is whitey scared of touching a black woman?". I replied, "I'm trying to keep from giving you the flu, but now I've reconsidered."
 
6 days ago  
BTO - Let It Ride
Youtube QmSXIOlN6mY
 
5 days ago  

stray_capts: margarito bandito: fustanella: CSB: my first visit to New York, many years ago, I boarded New Jersey Transit at a neighborhood platform that didn't have any ticket options. I didn't know what to do, and was embarrassed and scared as a teen. I thought of hiding or getting off, but eventually asked the conductor. Instead of hassling or throwing me off the train as I exxpected, from all the hard-ass stories I heard of the city, he said "welcome to New York" and gave me a ticket. I then paid for it when I got to the station.

Septa made up for that kindness some years later, with the rudest person I've ever experienced in transit.

Philadelphia is that city that not only hates back but hates you first. I had a conducter go off on an elderly couple on the Airport Line, where you would expect the least educated about your system, for asking for the senior fare and not immediately showing proof of age.

My Philly experience is limited.  I've been a tourist a few times, went to Pats and Geno's, and I've been through the airport about two dozen times.  I have found the workers at Philly airport are the rudest sacks of crap I have encountered in my million+ miles traveled.  They act like they are doing you a favor when they sneer at you and deign to sell you a soft drink.

One lady got mad because I asked her to put my change on the counter.  She asked, "is whitey scared of touching a black woman?". I replied, "I'm trying to keep from giving you the flu, but now I've reconsidered."


https://www.vocativ.com/culture/socie​t​y/special-ed-student-recorded-bullies-​accused-felony-wiretapping/index.html

"Special Ed student who recorded his bullies accused of felony wiretapping."

That's all anyone needs to know about Pennsylvania.... that, and the polluted ground water. Both very good reasons for that State to NOT have a tourism industry. They don't deserve visitors.
 
5 days ago  

TheSubjunctive: LiberalConservative: Can't work out from the article. Are the purchased tickets valid for longer than one fare? If not, then not stamping/validating doesn't matter and the law change makes sense. If tickets last longer, say ten fares with no end date and the user repeatedly 'forgets' to stamp/validate... well they probably deserve a fine. That said, those who are hurting financially should get a bit of help, a pass your payment. Those who can pay should pay.

The utility is largely theoretical for most riders, but as it stands currently you could buy multiple paper one-ride tickets ahead of time, which you'd need to timestamp validate before riding.  More than anything else this is used by social service agencies to hand out bus rides instead of cash.  I think when the HBLR started, there weren't vending machines at every station either, so some riders would buy 5 or 10 tickets at a bodega.

It'd be nice if transit systems could agree on a standard, that much is for sure.  I thought Portland's TriMet Hop system seems like the sanest one around for a visitor.  Just tap an NFC credit card/smartphone.  Tap the same card in the same 2.5 hours, no extra charge. If you've spent enough to qualify for a day/week/month pass, your spend caps out there and you've effectively bought that pass. Nice.


So with this proposed change, what is to stop someone buying one of these tickets unvalidated and just keeping it in case they get checked? Wouldn't this proposed change effectively encourage everyone to not pay unless they get asked for their ticket? Apologies if i'm not understanding. Yeah, Portland Trimet system you describe is what we have in most Aussie cities. Works well. You can be checked by random conductors that hop on occasionally, and you will get fined.
 
5 days ago  

Sean VasDeferens: robodog: Oh, NJ transit is even farther from fares mattering, only Approximately 14-percent of the revenue in the FY 2021 operating budget comes from passenger revenue link

That's disturbing, especially the $1.4 bil that was transferred from our Social Security funds.


All debts paid, either by the borrower or the lender.
 
5 days ago  

stray_capts: margarito bandito: fustanella: CSB: my first visit to New York, many years ago, I boarded New Jersey Transit at a neighborhood platform that didn't have any ticket options. I didn't know what to do, and was embarrassed and scared as a teen. I thought of hiding or getting off, but eventually asked the conductor. Instead of hassling or throwing me off the train as I exxpected, from all the hard-ass stories I heard of the city, he said "welcome to New York" and gave me a ticket. I then paid for it when I got to the station.

Septa made up for that kindness some years later, with the rudest person I've ever experienced in transit.

Philadelphia is that city that not only hates back but hates you first. I had a conducter go off on an elderly couple on the Airport Line, where you would expect the least educated about your system, for asking for the senior fare and not immediately showing proof of age.

My Philly experience is limited.  I've been a tourist a few times, went to Pats and Geno's, and I've been through the airport about two dozen times.  I have found the workers at Philly airport are the rudest sacks of crap I have encountered in my million+ miles traveled.  They act like they are doing you a favor when they sneer at you and deign to sell you a soft drink.

One lady got mad because I asked her to put my change on the counter.  She asked, "is whitey scared of touching a black woman?". I replied, "I'm trying to keep from giving you the flu, but now I've reconsidered."


I read that in a WC fields voice.
Bravo Zulu, Sir
 
5 days ago  

LiberalConservative: TheSubjunctive: LiberalConservative: Can't work out from the article. Are the purchased tickets valid for longer than one fare? If not, then not stamping/validating doesn't matter and the law change makes sense. If tickets last longer, say ten fares with no end date and the user repeatedly 'forgets' to stamp/validate... well they probably deserve a fine. That said, those who are hurting financially should get a bit of help, a pass your payment. Those who can pay should pay.

The utility is largely theoretical for most riders, but as it stands currently you could buy multiple paper one-ride tickets ahead of time, which you'd need to timestamp validate before riding.  More than anything else this is used by social service agencies to hand out bus rides instead of cash.  I think when the HBLR started, there weren't vending machines at every station either, so some riders would buy 5 or 10 tickets at a bodega.

It'd be nice if transit systems could agree on a standard, that much is for sure.  I thought Portland's TriMet Hop system seems like the sanest one around for a visitor.  Just tap an NFC credit card/smartphone.  Tap the same card in the same 2.5 hours, no extra charge. If you've spent enough to qualify for a day/week/month pass, your spend caps out there and you've effectively bought that pass. Nice.

So with this proposed change, what is to stop someone buying one of these tickets unvalidated and just keeping it in case they get checked? Wouldn't this proposed change effectively encourage everyone to not pay unless they get asked for their ticket? Apologies if i'm not understanding. Yeah, Portland Trimet system you describe is what we have in most Aussie cities. Works well. You can be checked by random conductors that hop on occasionally, and you will get fined.


If you rtfa the ticket has a valid time window instead like how Baltimore light rail works. If you don't have a ticket when asked to produce you'll get fined.
 
5 days ago  
Few transit systems barely do more than break even on fares given how much it costs to collect and enforce them anymore.  Most transit systems lose money on fare collection efforts and would be wise to drop the charade and just go fareless.
 
5 days ago  

Baloo Uriza: Few transit systems barely do more than break even on fares given how much it costs to collect and enforce them anymore.  Most transit systems lose money on fare collection efforts and would be wise to drop the charade and just go fareless.


Luxury apartments are going up around light and rapid transport stations not affordable housing. When I would ride the DC silver line I used to love seeing luxury Walmarts catering to the people buying Bentleys across the street.
 
5 days ago  

Intrepid00: Baloo Uriza: Few transit systems barely do more than break even on fares given how much it costs to collect and enforce them anymore.  Most transit systems lose money on fare collection efforts and would be wise to drop the charade and just go fareless.

Luxury apartments are going up around light and rapid transport stations not affordable housing. When I would ride the DC silver line I used to love seeing luxury Walmarts catering to the people buying Bentleys across the street.


I see what you're getting at, but I also do not see the point in means testing basic transportation.
 
5 days ago  
I got a Trump debit card despite making as much money during the Wuhan Year as I made the year before.
 
5 days ago  

Baloo Uriza: Intrepid00: Baloo Uriza: Few transit systems barely do more than break even on fares given how much it costs to collect and enforce them anymore.  Most transit systems lose money on fare collection efforts and would be wise to drop the charade and just go fareless.

Luxury apartments are going up around light and rapid transport stations not affordable housing. When I would ride the DC silver line I used to love seeing luxury Walmarts catering to the people buying Bentleys across the street.

I see what you're getting at, but I also do not see the point in means testing basic transportation.


Because making free is just going to accelerate that as now all of a sudden you have a huge cost burden lifted for getting into work and far less stress. It isn't going to help poor people who will be priced out and it will very likely fark over the middle class even more who will end up paying for what a few rich people will use by buying up all the land around it.

You can literally already find that in DC area along the Washington parkway. It's just a highway for rich people to get to DC and they and their house cleaners have an option to government funded bussing so they can live up the good life away from us poors.

Self driving busses will probably be the the solution.
 
5 days ago  

Intrepid00: Because making free is just going to accelerate that as now all of a sudden you have a huge cost burden lifted for getting into work and far less stress. It isn't going to help poor people who will be priced out and it will very likely fark over the middle class even more who will end up paying for what a few rich people will use by buying up all the land around it.


Eminent domain is a thing that exists.  So are guillotines.

Intrepid00: Self driving busses will probably be the the solution.


We have those already, they're called trains.  When they drive themselves they look like the BC Skytrain.
 
5 days ago  

Fancy_Bear: Sean VasDeferens: robodog: Oh, NJ transit is even farther from fares mattering, only Approximately 14-percent of the revenue in the FY 2021 operating budget comes from passenger revenue link

That's disturbing, especially the $1.4 bil that was transferred from our Social Security funds.

All debts paid, either by the borrower or the lender.


I don't recall giving permission to borrow my Federal Insruance Compensation Act (FICA) premiums.
 
5 days ago  

Baloo Uriza: Intrepid00: Because making free is just going to accelerate that as now all of a sudden you have a huge cost burden lifted for getting into work and far less stress. It isn't going to help poor people who will be priced out and it will very likely fark over the middle class even more who will end up paying for what a few rich people will use by buying up all the land around it.

Eminent domain is a thing that exists.  So are guillotines.

Intrepid00: Self driving busses will probably be the the solution.

We have those already, they're called trains.  When they drive themselves they look like the BC Skytrain.


Trains are expensive because of the tracks and can never just take up a new route or you no stop to well add a stop. They also rarely get you the final mile where you are going unless you are a rich farker living off the Reston stop.
 
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