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(The Week)   Have we normalized impeachment?   (theweek.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, United States Senate, United States House of Representatives, Bill Clinton, Sen. Lindsey Graham, United States Congress, President of the United States, former President Donald Trump, impeachments bloom  
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1323 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Feb 2021 at 4:22 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-02-15 3:54:39 PM  
Haven't we done exactly the opposite?

We just demonstrated that impeachment is never going to result in a conviction, even if the impeachment is for something very direct and severe like an attempted violent overthrow of the federal government, and the jurors were among the people that had to shelter from the mob.

I've heard some whining that "now everyone's going to be impeached," but the lesson is that nobody is going to see any point in trying it again for any reason.  I mean, not if the goal is removal from office.  If your goal is to embarrass a party as they inevitably vote to acquit, then making them do it might give you something to campaign over, but that's about it.

What we really need is some lower-level constitutional remedy that can actually be enforced, rather than a nuclear option too severe to invoke.
 
2021-02-15 3:57:25 PM  
What weve normalized is partisan corruption
 
2021-02-15 4:05:49 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-02-15 4:08:27 PM  
The GQP normalized being assholes.
 
2021-02-15 4:12:57 PM  

Xcott: Haven't we done exactly the opposite?

We just demonstrated that impeachment is never going to result in a conviction, even if the impeachment is for something very direct and severe like an attempted violent overthrow of the federal government, and the jurors were among the people that had to shelter from the mob.

I've heard some whining that "now everyone's going to be impeached," but the lesson is that nobody is going to see any point in trying it again for any reason.  I mean, not if the goal is removal from office.  If your goal is to embarrass a party as they inevitably vote to acquit, then making them do it might give you something to campaign over, but that's about it.

What we really need is some lower-level constitutional remedy that can actually be enforced, rather than a nuclear option too severe to invoke.


Exactly, what we HAVE created is an untouchable Executive.  Can't hold to account criminally while in office (per the DOJ) and Impeachment won't lead to removal from office.

Right now the ONLY thing keeping POTUS from being king is the judicial branch which constantly struck down executive orders.  But, since the executive branch polices itself really, that only goes so far.

The Constitution is broken
 
2021-02-15 4:13:14 PM  
Trump has normalized high crimes and misdemeanors, so...
 
2021-02-15 4:13:28 PM  
Have doctors normalized using medicine?

Have firemen normalized putting out fires?

The abnormal party selectively applies justice. If you forget to pay for a candy bar they want the police to end your life immediately but if their mob boss' lawyer steals Senate property, not a word from them.
 
2021-02-15 4:23:37 PM  
We certainly neutered it. We are now in a failed state.
 
2021-02-15 4:23:59 PM  
No we got rid of it. It's useless now.
 
2021-02-15 4:24:28 PM  
Don't we need a large sample size, before we can efficiently apply normalization rules?
 
2021-02-15 4:25:04 PM  

DoBeDoBeDo: Xcott: Haven't we done exactly the opposite?

We just demonstrated that impeachment is never going to result in a conviction, even if the impeachment is for something very direct and severe like an attempted violent overthrow of the federal government, and the jurors were among the people that had to shelter from the mob.

I've heard some whining that "now everyone's going to be impeached," but the lesson is that nobody is going to see any point in trying it again for any reason.  I mean, not if the goal is removal from office.  If your goal is to embarrass a party as they inevitably vote to acquit, then making them do it might give you something to campaign over, but that's about it.

What we really need is some lower-level constitutional remedy that can actually be enforced, rather than a nuclear option too severe to invoke.

Exactly, what we HAVE created is an untouchable Executive.  Can't hold to account criminally while in office (per the DOJ) and Impeachment won't lead to removal from office.

Right now the ONLY thing keeping POTUS from being king is the judicial branch which constantly struck down executive orders.  But, since the executive branch polices itself really, that only goes so far.

The Constitution is broken


Someone needs to actually charge a sitting president with a crime, and get an actual SCOTUS read on it. 

If a State governor can be indicted while in office, under State charges, I see no reason that the Federal Executive is any different. 

We do not have a monarch. We are all subject to the law.
 
2021-02-15 4:25:16 PM  
2 same POTUS and not since Clinton ? No. the answer is No
 
2021-02-15 4:26:45 PM  
I'm looking forward to Hunter Biden's impeachment.
 
2021-02-15 4:27:06 PM  
What frivolous impeachment?
 
2021-02-15 4:27:08 PM  
45** tried to normalize impeachable behavior
 
2021-02-15 4:27:30 PM  
We've normalized crimes against humanity, treason, and violent insurrections. Also thousands of Americans dying every day because people won't wear masks.
 
2021-02-15 4:28:16 PM  
Nixon would've been convicted of FAR less then what Trump did both times.
 
2021-02-15 4:28:17 PM  
Repubs certainly want us to think so, with MTG trying to impeach Biden from day 1 and Graham threatening to impeach Harris if Repubs gained power in congress.

The truth is, Trump was a horribly and openly corrupt president who delighted in putting himself above the country. It would have been abnormal if he had NOT been impeached.
 
2021-02-15 4:29:34 PM  
Impeachment should be normal when an elected official violates their oath of office and the law.  Acquittal in the face of overwhelming evidence, not so much.
 
2021-02-15 4:30:15 PM  

the_innkeeper: DoBeDoBeDo: Xcott: Haven't we done exactly the opposite?

We just demonstrated that impeachment is never going to result in a conviction, even if the impeachment is for something very direct and severe like an attempted violent overthrow of the federal government, and the jurors were among the people that had to shelter from the mob.

I've heard some whining that "now everyone's going to be impeached," but the lesson is that nobody is going to see any point in trying it again for any reason.  I mean, not if the goal is removal from office.  If your goal is to embarrass a party as they inevitably vote to acquit, then making them do it might give you something to campaign over, but that's about it.

What we really need is some lower-level constitutional remedy that can actually be enforced, rather than a nuclear option too severe to invoke.

Exactly, what we HAVE created is an untouchable Executive.  Can't hold to account criminally while in office (per the DOJ) and Impeachment won't lead to removal from office.

Right now the ONLY thing keeping POTUS from being king is the judicial branch which constantly struck down executive orders.  But, since the executive branch polices itself really, that only goes so far.

The Constitution is broken

Someone needs to actually charge a sitting president with a crime, and get an actual SCOTUS read on it. 

If a State governor can be indicted while in office, under State charges, I see no reason that the Federal Executive is any different. 

We do not have a monarch. We are all subject to the law.


i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2021-02-15 4:30:42 PM  
No.  We've normalized authoritarians
 
2021-02-15 4:31:37 PM  
The Senate is broken. We need to fix that first. Then we can fix impeachment.

It seems pretty obvious to me that we need it to work correctly.
 
2021-02-15 4:31:38 PM  
Perhaps if a mushroom forager doubled as an intern, whatever climax might have occurred could've been the nail in the coffin.
 
2021-02-15 4:31:44 PM  
Fine
Make them get up there and lie more often.

Let everyone internalize the guilt from their selection for office.
 
2021-02-15 4:32:24 PM  
Oh STFU.

If we're gonna have Presidents break the law, we're gonna farking impeach them.

1. Pressuring world leaders to do your political bidding while threatening to withhold Congressionally appropriated funding, and;

2. Threatening a Secretary of State if they don't overturn and election, and;

3. Inciting a farking insurrection...

are significant enough breaches of public trust to impeach someone.

So...

S.
T.
F.
U.

Want fewer impeachments? Elect fewer pieces of human filth.
 
2021-02-15 4:32:43 PM  
Delegitimizing the impeachment process was one of the goals of the Clinton impeachment. By turning it into a political tool, they made it harder for hand-wringing Democrats to attempt to use it.
 
2021-02-15 4:33:10 PM  

make me some tea: Trump has normalized high crimes and misdemeanors, so...


So now we have to complain about Democrats having to use remedies laid out in the Constitution so much that it risks normalizing those remedies.
 
2021-02-15 4:34:26 PM  
What I have learned about impeachment in the last 45 years.

Lying about a beej to congress will get you impeached but not convicted.

Begging forgein nations for information to steal an election, will get you impeached but not convicted.
Inciting an armed coup to take over the government by force, will get you impeached but not convicted.

Nixon did something, taped doors, stole information, lied about it, fired a bunch of people.....he was headed for impeachment but he quit and hid behind his the Ford Pardon, (sounds like an economy car smaller than the Festiva was) so we'll really never know if he would have been convicted.

Has it been normalized, I don't think so. Is it partisan and utterly useless, that I'm more inclined to agree with.
 
2021-02-15 4:34:32 PM  
If Trump is not convicted on impeachment by the Senate, does that prevent him being tried with sedition under Federal law?
 
2021-02-15 4:35:13 PM  
Please, feel free to dig the hole deeper...
 
2021-02-15 4:36:03 PM  
No. We normalized impeachable offenses, and then we excused impeachable offenses for occurring too late in a presidency to do anything about (even though the guy who ran the clock out then complained the clock ran out)
 
2021-02-15 4:36:28 PM  

keiverarrow: What weve normalized is partisan corruption


Bingo. 'Party over Country' should now be on your money rather than 'In God We Trust'.
 
2021-02-15 4:37:09 PM  

Xcott: Haven't we done exactly the opposite?

We just demonstrated that impeachment is never going to result in a conviction, even if the impeachment is for something very direct and severe like an attempted violent overthrow of the federal government, and the jurors were among the people that had to shelter from the mob.

I've heard some whining that "now everyone's going to be impeached," but the lesson is that nobody is going to see any point in trying it again for any reason.  I mean, not if the goal is removal from office.  If your goal is to embarrass a party as they inevitably vote to acquit, then making them do it might give you something to campaign over, but that's about it.

What we really need is some lower-level constitutional remedy that can actually be enforced, rather than a nuclear option too severe to invoke.


Like what?
 
2021-02-15 4:37:13 PM  

drayno76: What I have learned about impeachment in the last 45 years.

Lying about a beej to congress will get you impeached but not convicted.

Begging forgein nations for information to steal an election, will get you impeached but not convicted.
Inciting an armed coup to take over the government by force, will get you impeached but not convicted.

Nixon did something, taped doors, stole information, lied about it, fired a bunch of people.....he was headed for impeachment but he quit and hid behind his the Ford Pardon, (sounds like an economy car smaller than the Festiva was) so we'll really never know if he would have been convicted.

Has it been normalized, I don't think so. Is it partisan and utterly useless, that I'm more inclined to agree with.


He resigned precisely because he was told he was going to be convicted. The problem is one party has descended into outright fascism in order to hold onto their ever fleeting political power, and have been using the levers of government to do so, freely.
 
2021-02-15 4:38:02 PM  

keiverarrow: What weve normalized is partisan corruption


"But I think I know why Trump thought it was okay to do what he did - why he could get away with it. The reason is a culture of elite impunity, where business and political leaders face absolutely no accountability for misdeeds. And it's a culture that Brennan and many political elites like him have fostered, and from which they have personally benefited.

It's much bigger than collusion. It encompasses many decades during which political officials have evaded accountability for broken laws and illicit foreign contacts, and business and corporate elites have skirted punishment for outright fraud. It's a problem that, ironically, Trump hammered home in the campaign: that there's a different set of rules for elites than for normal people. It just happens that Trump knows that because he, for decades now, has been taking advantage of elite impunity.

And unless critics are willing to target the problem of impunity, a problem in which some of them may be implicated, stuff like the Russia scandal will just keep happening, again and again."

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/19/1758154​6​/donald-trump-russia-collusion-elite-i​mpunity-immunity-torture-iran-contra-f​inancial-crisis
 
2021-02-15 4:39:08 PM  
No. The GOP has normalized criming.
 
2021-02-15 4:39:15 PM  

Xcott: Haven't we done exactly the opposite?

We just demonstrated that impeachment is never going to result in a conviction, even if the impeachment is for something very direct and severe like an attempted violent overthrow of the federal government, and the jurors were among the people that had to shelter from the mob.

I've heard some whining that "now everyone's going to be impeached," but the lesson is that nobody is going to see any point in trying it again for any reason.  I mean, not if the goal is removal from office.  If your goal is to embarrass a party as they inevitably vote to acquit, then making them do it might give you something to campaign over, but that's about it.

What we really need is some lower-level constitutional remedy that can actually be enforced, rather than a nuclear option too severe to invoke.


impeachment is a slap on the wrist for sticking your hand too far into the wall street/corporate cookie jar. or for making the other members of the House uncomfortable.

Conviction by the Senate is the only thing that has any real effect.   which means convictions will never happen because the rules for the wealthy are a bit different than everyone else.
 
2021-02-15 4:39:55 PM  
Countertheory: Trump was an abnormal president.

Choices, choices...
 
2021-02-15 4:42:03 PM  

GoodHomer: No. The GOP has normalized criming.


well........sort of.

more accurately, the wealthy and the connected can commit crimes without having to worry to much about being convicted of anything.  sure they might get a slap on the wrist (impeachment) but there will be no convictions by the Senate.

the Golden Rule is still in effect: those with the most Gold make the rules.

the rest must follow these rules.

we've become a Nation of Men, not Law.
 
2021-02-15 4:43:03 PM  

LeftisRightisWrong: We certainly neutered it. We are now in a failed state.


that process began about 40 years ago.
 
2021-02-15 4:44:54 PM  
I'd quote Ben Franklin, but at best it would probably get me a ban.
 
2021-02-15 4:45:15 PM  

recombobulator: Impeachment should be normal when an elected official violates their oath of office and the law.  Acquittal in the face of overwhelming evidence, not so much.


Two sets of Rules for Murcans:

one set of rules for the hinterland.

and no rules for their wealthy Masters.
 
2021-02-15 4:46:38 PM  

Purple_Urkle: The GQP normalized being assholes.



and ole' Turtle always has his head poking out one of them, depending on who he needs to use to get what he wants.
 
2021-02-15 4:47:20 PM  

abb3w: I'd quote Ben Franklin, but at best it would probably get me a ban.


The Boobiesmaster General is always welcome on Fark
 
2021-02-15 4:50:46 PM  

GoodHomer: No. The GOP has normalized criming.


Not as such. They've normalized Power At Any Cost, or PAAC.
 
2021-02-15 4:51:03 PM  
We haven't normalized Shiat. All we've done is show the world how corrupt our system really is at the hands of any president and senators who dgaf about the rules as long as they win.
 
2021-02-15 4:51:22 PM  
I wouldn't describe the impeachment of Donald J Trump as frivolous.
 
2021-02-15 4:53:06 PM  

qorkfiend: The Boobiesmaster General is always welcome on Fark


On the contrary, it slightly depends on what you're quoting him about.
 
2021-02-15 4:53:30 PM  
We have normalized criminality in the White House. Unless you have enough senators from the opposite party to convict, there is no chance of a successful conviction.
Trump could have actually shot someone in the middle of Fifth Ave, and Congress would have let him slide.
Saying that, we have also set a precedent that sitting presidents cannot not be charged criminally for crimes committed.
All in all, Trump may not have become a dictator, but this country is heading down that path.
 
2021-02-15 4:54:56 PM  

Bovine Diarrhea Virus: We have normalized criminality in the White House. Unless you have enough senators from the opposite party to convict, there is no chance of a successful conviction.
Trump could have actually shot someone in the middle of Fifth Ave, and Congress would have let him slide.
Saying that, we have also set a precedent that sitting presidents cannot not be charged criminally for crimes committed.
All in all, Trump may not have become a dictator, but this country is heading down that path.


No, "Congress" would not have let him slide. The Republicans would have let him slide. Don't even try to deflect that responsibility.
 
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