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(Medical Xpress)   Wanna bet it's gonna kill ya?   (medicalxpress.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Public health, Gambling, Bank, Bookmaker, High levels of gambling, new study, Dr. Naomi Muggleton, health of gamblers  
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7037 clicks; posted to Main » and Business » on 07 Feb 2021 at 9:41 PM (9 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-02-07 6:05:44 PM  
I was politely asked to leave the Hard Rock casino for counting cards at blackjack. If it was a few years ago, I'd probably be in a hole in the desert.
 
2021-02-07 6:17:26 PM  

Mugato: Hard Rock casino for counting cards at blackjack


That's always bothered me that they can do that.  Add a deck.  Add three.  Add a dozen.  Shuffle.

They'd kick you out for being too good at reading faces if poker was played against the house.
 
2021-02-07 6:27:31 PM  

born_yesterday: Mugato: Hard Rock casino for counting cards at blackjack

That's always bothered me that they can do that.  Add a deck.  Add three.  Add a dozen.  Shuffle.

They'd kick you out for being too good at reading faces if poker was played against the house.


Your odds aren't really any better if there's more than two decks. Luckily gambling isn't one of my addictions.

The house always wins. That's why no one is dumb enough to bankrupt a casino. Oh, wait.
 
2021-02-07 8:22:26 PM  

Mugato: our odds aren't really any better if there's more than two decks


I meant that I thought it helped the house to add more decks; I could have been clearer.

But now that I've been clearer, I could still easily be wrong.
 
2021-02-07 9:04:41 PM  
I've a friend who developed a gambling problem. She lost her security clearance for financial instability, so she lost her well-paying job, and then lost her house. She's better now, but suffers from the after effects of all the financial losses.

/Not against gambling, just not into it.
 
2021-02-07 9:47:49 PM  
When I worked security at a casino, we got our paychecks at 1:00 a.m. on Thursdays, and could cash them at the main cashier cage. (It was in the Long Ago Times, when money was still used) A good third of the dealers promptly sat down at the slots and had no money left by end of shift. One of our guards had such a serious problem gambling, he lost everything, and was found living under the stairs in the back hotel tower.

For MOST people, gambling is just a fun way to spend the time. For SOME people, it's no different than cocaine or heroin. Or sex, for that matter. It becomes an awful addiction that sucks everything out of their lives. I'm not sure there's any more of an answer for gambling than there is for any other addiction.
 
2021-02-07 9:50:58 PM  

Mugato: born_yesterday: Mugato: Hard Rock casino for counting cards at blackjack

That's always bothered me that they can do that.  Add a deck.  Add three.  Add a dozen.  Shuffle.

They'd kick you out for being too good at reading faces if poker was played against the house.

Your odds aren't really any better if there's more than two decks. Luckily gambling isn't one of my addictions.

The house always wins. That's why no one is dumb enough to bankrupt a casino. Oh, wait.


He was skimming it for his Russian bankers.

House never loses long term.
 
2021-02-07 9:51:47 PM  
For some reason, my mind would not stop reading Oxford as Oxnard. (Used to be stationed at Port Hueneme & bought my first home in San Buenaventura.) Could not understand Oxnard as a seat of learning & study. Started being confused.
 
2021-02-07 9:58:32 PM  

Mugato: I was politely asked to leave the Hard Rock casino for counting cards at blackjack. If it was a few years ago, I'd probably be in a hole in the desert.


Buddy, you couldn't even remember claims you made about the IRS one week after the fact.

No way you can count cards :)
 
2021-02-07 9:59:06 PM  

Gyrfalcon: I'm not sure there's any more of an answer for gambling than there is for any other addiction.


There is an answer, but it's one that requires years of hard work . You first ban advertising, then limit when and where, then tax the ever living shiat out of it. And that's still cheaper than flat out prohibition (well, the massive police state/mass incarceration part of that equation). And you fight every single step b/c there is a lot of lobbying money up against you; American democracy is littered w/ the careers of politicians who were voted out for doing the right thing.
 
2021-02-07 10:02:01 PM  

born_yesterday: Mugato: our odds aren't really any better if there's more than two decks

I meant that I thought it helped the house to add more decks; I could have been clearer.

But now that I've been clearer, I could still easily be wrong.


There are ways to make it completely impossible to count cards, but they prefer to let people try and fail under the pressure and distraction.
 
2021-02-07 10:02:36 PM  
I'd rather die gambling than working, but that's just me.
 
2021-02-07 10:05:54 PM  
I am so lousy at trying to pick winners in lotteries, I know I'd suck if I ever went to a casino.

I can't even win playing solitaire.

I think it's my mind, reminding me of exactly how long I worked for that stake and how many bills I have.  Stake goes to the bank and I stay home.☹
 
2021-02-07 10:06:09 PM  

SurelyShirley: I'd rather die gambling than working, but that's just me.


Bet you won't
 
2021-02-07 10:08:12 PM  
farked around
found out

oh no
anyway...
 
2021-02-07 10:08:36 PM  
I thought it was about Making. It. Rain.
?
The commercials said I could win $250 with $5!!
 
2021-02-07 10:11:41 PM  
Am I the only Farker who read Subby's headline and immediately thought of Australia?
 
2021-02-07 10:11:50 PM  
I thought most casinos use 8 deck shoes and swap shoes frequently so that counting is impossible.
 
2021-02-07 10:15:17 PM  
One of the only good things about the pandemic is that it's cut down on the access to video slot machines in bars and restaurants. those things are lethal.
 
2021-02-07 10:16:37 PM  
Florida became a market of idle retirement savings beginning in the 1970s and JaiLai and horse tracks were sufficiently flooded with gamblers to attract mobsters to launder its money through them. Penny stocks and brokerage houses were an effort to direct that money from simple sports venues and frickin' mobsters. As the trend increased, conservatives rallied around capital gains taxes to promote the objective of a robustly trading middle-class and, maybe, for all of a second that was achieved, but as it has played out, a concentration of wealth surpassing that of a century ago is the result.
 
2021-02-07 10:21:08 PM  

SurelyShirley: I'd rather die gambling than working, but that's just me.


irishtimes.comView Full Size
 
2021-02-07 10:27:10 PM  
I used to have an elderly neighbor.  The first of every month she'd spend her whole social security check on lotto tickets.  She'd keep playing the smaller and smaller pool of 'winners' for the next couple days and then spend the rest of the month going through the garbage for cans for deposits so she could keep playing.

I think she got food stamps so at least she could eat... and when you get right down to it, since the money goes back to the lottery and the lottery is run by the state I suppose she really didn't cost taxpayers much.
 
2021-02-07 10:39:08 PM  
If nothing else, for building up a debt to the wrong person.
 
2021-02-07 11:09:21 PM  

Mugato: I was politely asked to leave the Hard Rock casino for counting cards at blackjack. If it was a few years ago, I'd probably be in a hole in the desert.


They were not doing that 35 years ago. To my thinking, it is kind of an urban legend.

35 years ago you could go to Binions and play single deck for 2 dollars a hand. I have not been to Vegas lately, but what are they? 8 deck shoes? Six decks? And they shuffle halfway through the shoe? I think they have driven the return on card counting below the minimum wage without having to break anyone's legs.
 
2021-02-07 11:14:44 PM  

Moniker o' Shame: I thought most casinos use 8 deck shoes and swap shoes frequently so that counting is impossible.


Not impossible. It "dilutes" the effectiveness of the count to a point where you are forced to make riskier bets based on a weak count, or be content with a lower winning percentage by ignoring weak counts.

What happens is that the expected return drops so low that you earn almost nothing. So you get bored and wing it, and they win. Or you drink too much and they win. Etc.

It is dumb. There was a golden era of card counting, and by the time the MIT gang was doing it, it was already getting long in the tooth.
 
2021-02-07 11:18:44 PM  
I'll take the under.
 
2021-02-07 11:19:28 PM  
Steve Brule - Who Started Grambling?
Youtube v9cAs68l208

You gotta go to the best machines. Winner every time!
 
2021-02-07 11:19:57 PM  

Mugato: I was politely asked to leave the Hard Rock casino for counting cards at blackjack. If it was a few years ago, I'd probably be in a hole in the desert.


That's probably not as it sounds.

The other patrons got sick of you counting out loud and predictably landing on 52 every time.
 
2021-02-07 11:20:07 PM  
Steve Brule and the Casino Hunk
Youtube m_OmN4EofXg

Don't forget. I know how to count cards.
 
2021-02-07 11:21:35 PM  
Quick story about risk. In Japan, when you renew your driver's license, you have to listen to a lecture. It is about an hour, but if you have had ANY moving violation or accident during the prior renewal period, you have to listen to a 3 hour lecture.

Let's just say that I got sorted into that pool one time.

Japan has speed limits so low and various measures that have reduced the accident rate to pitifully... excruciatingly low levels. You might say that the only people who get in trouble are people who took really stupid risks.

And you would be right. Mine was riding my motorcycle about 40 in a 25 mph zone. So. I might be ok.

Halfway through the long boring lecture, they called for a break, and I kid you not, 90% of the people there headed to the smoking area to smoke a butt.

Risky behaviors. Yeah. They WILL KILL YOU. You will find a way to court death and it will walk you down the aisle.
 
2021-02-07 11:22:58 PM  
Worked for a guy who had it made, married with kids, huge house & expensive cars, all paid for so zero debt.  It was a small business that he paid his friends to run for him & he just collected the checks. He thought he could play cards at the casino but always lost big, dropping 5, 10, 20k a night wasn't out of the ordinary.

There was a large cash aspect of the business too, which lead to him raiding the safes at several locations on a regular basis. He finally got busted cheating on his wife who took half of the company & found out he was taking cash, so she made him sell his half to her.  She was a horrible business person though (& just plain horrible person) & the company went under.

Last I heard he was shacked up with a stripper, broke with a pill addiction & trying to get back into the business.
 
2021-02-07 11:29:54 PM  
To clarify.
Someone funnied my comment and might have misunderstood.

Counting is not an urban legend.
The idea that some tourist got buried in the desert for counting is absurd.

The casinos laugh their asses off at the counters. Most people can't balance a checkbook... oh... these days, they don't have to. The weird hands are a giveaway. People lose counts. People get bored. The big hoopla around counting has made casinos far far more money than they have ever lost. Maybe they roughed up a persistent Asian guy 20 years ago who could not take a hint.

Killing a guy for counting is an urban legend. Most degenerate gamblers are attracted by the danger and the con, so they get sucked in by it. I doubt such stories even deter anyone.
 
2021-02-07 11:32:45 PM  
Back in 1989 I was aboard a ferry from Sweden to Germany and they had a "casino" on board (it was a game room with a half dozen or so slot machines). I hit three jackpots in short order, starting with the equivalent of about $5 and ending up with about $100. That was the last time I did any gambling (other than the occasional dollar bet with friends).
 
2021-02-07 11:34:19 PM  

Gyrfalcon: When I worked security at a casino, we got our paychecks at 1:00 a.m. on Thursdays, and could cash them at the main cashier cage. (It was in the Long Ago Times, when money was still used) A good third of the dealers promptly sat down at the slots and had no money left by end of shift. One of our guards had such a serious problem gambling, he lost everything, and was found living under the stairs in the back hotel tower.

For MOST people, gambling is just a fun way to spend the time. For SOME people, it's no different than cocaine or heroin. Or sex, for that matter. It becomes an awful addiction that sucks everything out of their lives. I'm not sure there's any more of an answer for gambling than there is for any other addiction.


Sex? If you're addicted to putting your dick in the slot machine, you have at least two problems.
 
2021-02-07 11:38:38 PM  

Cardinal Ximenez: Worked for a guy who had it made, married with kids, huge house & expensive cars, all paid for so zero debt.  It was a small business that he paid his friends to run for him & he just collected the checks. He thought he could play cards at the casino but always lost big, dropping 5, 10, 20k a night wasn't out of the ordinary.

There was a large cash aspect of the business too, which lead to him raiding the safes at several locations on a regular basis. He finally got busted cheating on his wife who took half of the company & found out he was taking cash, so she made him sell his half to her.  She was a horrible business person though (& just plain horrible person) & the company went under.

Last I heard he was shacked up with a stripper, broke with a pill addiction & trying to get back into the business.


A million stories like that in the naked city.

The best gambler I ever knew was a nice little old lady from a Central American country who was a machine. She was fearless and she had a mind like a whip. She counted. That was about 40 years ago. She put in the time over and over and then when she became VERY good, she moved from 25 dollar chips to 100 dollar chips. I lost track of her, but she basically went to 1000 dollar chips and spent more time at the pool than at the tables.

See what I mean about fearless? Once you know the game and figure it out, the zeroes don't matter.

A wonderful lady and the nicest lady you would ever want to meet. She lost sometimes, but won consistently, and she knew why. She believed in luck, but not really. Not like most people.

And she never, ever talked about it.
 
2021-02-07 11:38:49 PM  

2fardownthread: To clarify.
Someone funnied my comment and might have misunderstood.

Counting is not an urban legend.
The idea that some tourist got buried in the desert for counting is absurd.

The casinos laugh their asses off at the counters. Most people can't balance a checkbook... oh... these days, they don't have to. The weird hands are a giveaway. People lose counts. People get bored. The big hoopla around counting has made casinos far far more money than they have ever lost. Maybe they roughed up a persistent Asian guy 20 years ago who could not take a hint.

Killing a guy for counting is an urban legend. Most degenerate gamblers are attracted by the danger and the con, so they get sucked in by it. I doubt such stories even deter anyone.


Correct.  Banning from the casino also worked.  Also casinos shared information on who was banned so you are banned from all casinos (if they recognized you).
 
2021-02-07 11:39:27 PM  

Moniker o' Shame: I thought most casinos use 8 deck shoes and swap shoes frequently so that counting is impossible.


Actually I saw some casinos advertising that they had one deck black jacket at one table.
 
2021-02-07 11:42:25 PM  

Mock26: Back in 1989 I was aboard a ferry from Sweden to Germany and they had a "casino" on board (it was a game room with a half dozen or so slot machines). I hit three jackpots in short order, starting with the equivalent of about $5 and ending up with about $100. That was the last time I did any gambling (other than the occasional dollar bet with friends).


You sir, are a what is known as a winner.

I like to tell people that I have won money at Pachinko. I won 3000 yen my first time playing and I never played again.

Ta dah!  It can be done. People win all the time. They are called non-gamblers.
 
2021-02-07 11:54:17 PM  

buravirgil: Florida became a market of idle retirement savings beginning in the 1970s and JaiLai and horse tracks were sufficiently flooded with gamblers to attract mobsters to launder its money through them. Penny stocks and brokerage houses were an effort to direct that money from simple sports venues and frickin' mobsters. As the trend increased, conservatives rallied around capital gains taxes to promote the objective of a robustly trading middle-class and, maybe, for all of a second that was achieved, but as it has played out, a concentration of wealth surpassing that of a century ago is the result.


such great comments and smart people.

I have known people to ... I don't know... hit a pre-dementia state where money just loses all value to them. They take big risks and become very emotionally invested in them. I know a guy who lost about 12 million in the stock market on "sure things". He died with social security and little else. He never gambled, even the lottery.

In a sense he was lucky because, and you will not believe this, but truly it is a beautiful thing, he gave away a huge chunk of his money before it was too late. To family, to various schools, etc. In the end, it saved his sanity that some good came out of his lifelong struggle to amass a fortune before it all got taken away. Sometimes the only way to keep something is to give it away.

The Florida conmen know their trade and they have easy pickings. In the last month, they have been joined by the biggest conman of all.
 
2021-02-08 12:08:29 AM  
I will only win. Then I will stay healthy.
 
2021-02-08 12:08:39 AM  

Mugato: I was politely asked to leave the Hard Rock casino for counting cards at blackjack. If it was a few years ago, I'd probably be in a hole in the desert.


Naah...I'm guessing that casinos don't lose that much to counters, but since they don't like to lose anything...

I mean...I'm sure there are genuine cheaters who've found themselves in a room with Ace Rothstein, but counters, they'd grab, take a picture, tell him not to come back or there'll be serious trouble and distribute their picture to other casinos.
 
2021-02-08 12:18:43 AM  

waxbeans: Moniker o' Shame: I thought most casinos use 8 deck shoes and swap shoes frequently so that counting is impossible.

Actually I saw some casinos advertising that they had one deck black jacket at one table.


One deck blackjack is impossible to count because they shuffle the deck.

And card counting isn't like Rain Man. You just need to count the number of 2-7s as compared to Tens to Aces. If the former comes up more, bet more later, if the latter comes up more, bet less. It's a pretty simple idea that just needs a lot of focus and even then has a pretty small margin, which is why it's only worth doing on high roller tables.

Or you could learn to play poker, where you can cut your teeth at pretty low levels (especially online, where there are .01/.02 tables and $1 tournaments). I play on PokerStarsPA, which sucks, since their comps are complete balls, but it's literally the only game in town. It also sucks that nobody plays stud for low stakes and there's only one stud tournament a day for $20 and I'm too busy playing $10 SnGs...
 
2021-02-08 12:20:03 AM  
I like to gamble.

I got called out on this one time by a guy with a pet monkey. No, I mean, literally, this guy had purchased a cute little capuchin monkey and she was climbing all over everything in the vicinity: the shelves, him, me, whatever. Meanwhile, he was talking to me about how I might as well burn a stack of $100 bills.

Listen. First of all, I'd just watched a YouTube video about how some guy had spent over $20,000 going to the Superb Owl. It was his entertainment. Pay $20K, watch guys in tights wrestle over a pigskin. Whatever floats your boat.

I've never spent $20,000 gambling, but it's my entertainment, and yet this guy -- with LITERALLY a monkey on his back -- was lecturing me about how I choose to spend my excess wads of cash.

Anyway, point is, I like to gamble, it's my entertainment, and I didn't watch the Superb Owl. Who was playing? I didn't have a bet on the game.
 
2021-02-08 12:26:05 AM  

40 degree day: born_yesterday: Mugato: our odds aren't really any better if there's more than two decks

I meant that I thought it helped the house to add more decks; I could have been clearer.

But now that I've been clearer, I could still easily be wrong.

There are ways to make it completely impossible to count cards, but they prefer to let people try and fail under the pressure and distraction.


Came to say exactly this.

Casinos *love* card counters! Why? Because almost nobody can actually do it. First, it's a lot harder in person. Second, even doing it perfect gives you only a slight edge. Third, the amount of money a regular Joe has makes it insignificant regardless. If they bring friends, family, or play other games, the house still wins.

Finally, and most importantly, if you are actually doing it, they just ask you to stop.

The famous MIT card counting stuff was on a level so far beyond regular card counting it is barely with mentioning. Do you have a million dollar bankroll, working with a team of others, who have trained for months or years, as part of a legit limited partnership? Probably not.

And even the most successful of those card counters feel it is more lucrative to sell the story, do public speaking, write books, and teach others, than continue their card counting careers....
 
2021-02-08 12:50:31 AM  
They don't care if you count cards. They care about your betting patterns if you count cards.

If you are betting $20 on the regular and then when the deck turns to your favor and you bet $2,000

they might take notice
 
2021-02-08 12:51:21 AM  
If it's an obvious repeating pattern
 
2021-02-08 1:08:33 AM  
Excepting the occasional lottery pool, I've never been a gambler. My BiL has a travel agency & runs casino trips. Before I got sick (cancers), Hubby & I would tag along, mostly for the cheap food, & because the other siblings would go, so it made a nice day outing for the adults. After lunch & $20, I was out & bored. Hubby knows my rule: pre-set limit or as soon as there's a profit on that, then stop. If he comes home with $2 more than he left with, that's a good day; if he only loses what we agreed to, that's ok.

I've won twice: Rose Bowl tickets (when the Oregon Ducks played, so 1994?) And $11k share in a lottery pool. I know Hubby joins the Familia in lottery pools but the limit among us is $5/person & no individual buys. We don't do it often. I always say the better time is the drawing after a bug win: fewer competitors for the big prize, but I may as well talk to tables.

But my 3 SiLs sitting at a row of slots with a bucket of quarters each is the only time they are in silent concentration: No group of nuns have ever prayed so fervently & earnestly as those 3 hitting the Play button. Watching them not talking is a rare & beautiful sight. I've said this to casino servers & they've brought me free drinks just for making them smile.
 
2021-02-08 3:31:59 AM  
Anyone want to bet the whole article conflates correlation with causation, with only a minor disclaimer buried in there somewhere?

Dr. Muggleton says, "It's unclear whether gambling causes negative outcomes, or whether already vulnerable people are disproportionately targeted by bookmakers...

I win.
 
2021-02-08 4:00:30 AM  

Gyrfalcon: When I worked security at a casino, we got our paychecks at 1:00 a.m. on Thursdays, and could cash them at the main cashier cage. (It was in the Long Ago Times, when money was still used) A good third of the dealers promptly sat down at the slots and had no money left by end of shift. One of our guards had such a serious problem gambling, he lost everything, and was found living under the stairs in the back hotel tower.

For MOST people, gambling is just a fun way to spend the time. For SOME people, it's no different than cocaine or heroin. Or sex, for that matter. It becomes an awful addiction that sucks everything out of their lives. I'm not sure there's any more of an answer for gambling than there is for any other addiction.


For some reason I'm reminded of people who used to say there's no way of stopping COVID in its tracks.
 
2021-02-08 4:06:21 AM  
I had a roommate in college who took classes full time, worked about 40 hours a week, and then once or twice per month would go to the casino and blow all his money. He always had trouble getting rent on time or splitting bills with me and it seemed to be worsening.

One night I sat him down and told him I was concerned about his gambling addiction, which he did not take the right way. We got into an argument about it and weren't on good terms for a while.

A year or two later I found out through friends he had been winning. A. Lot. Of. Money. at the poker table, we're talking like $100,000+ in just a few years. By the time he graduated college he paid for a wedding and bought a house.

I guess he was trying to keep his winnings secret. Makes me feel like an asshole for insisting he had a gambling addiction.
 
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